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Post #470: Zherdev lower body injury, not likely to play January 6th

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Old
12-15-2010, 10:16 PM
  #301
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2 straight good games. Keep it up Z.

I think he really does like being on this team, and is willing to change, he just has to break his bad habits. He was laughing on the bench after the Subban dive

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12-15-2010, 10:20 PM
  #302
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More games like that, please, Z.

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12-15-2010, 10:36 PM
  #303
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he best stay in the top 9....

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12-15-2010, 10:37 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
If he played like this every game, I would have no problem with him and would welcome him. Him actually doing that is another thing though. Hope he does
I think it's up to Laviolette now to keep him focused. I always kind of hoped there would be a coach who extracts the best out of him rather than giving up on him. It's not easy -- Tortorella couldn't (or didn't want to) do it.

What is a pleasant surprize for me is how Z reacts on punisment. 2 years ago, in similar situation, he just shut down. Now he actually steps up his game. I guess things do change.

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12-15-2010, 10:37 PM
  #305
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Absolutely love the Z-Carter-Jvr line.

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12-15-2010, 10:44 PM
  #306
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Time for a girl comment... Zherdev is hot.

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12-15-2010, 11:13 PM
  #307
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Another good game by Nik. Starting to find some chemistry maybe with JVR and Carter. Also good to see JVR starting to make up some ground for his slow start. HUGE win over the Canadiens tonight.

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12-15-2010, 11:45 PM
  #308
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Zherdev was great tonight. I think it's obvious we need to keep the JVR-Carter-Zherdev line together for a few games and see if they can keep this up.

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12-16-2010, 12:01 AM
  #309
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great effort tonight. The dude just needs to limit his boneheaded turnovers and skate hard.

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12-16-2010, 12:44 AM
  #310
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I knew Z was going to start sniping them home as he has been scoring in bunches for me on NHL 11

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12-16-2010, 04:50 AM
  #311
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Sorry to intrude, but I felt compelled after watching Zherdev's best game of the season last night. He's been my favorite player since he joined the Jackets. I've seen his peak (thus far /knock on wood), in 07/08, and I haven't seen him reach that level since then, though he came close when paired with Voros and Dubinsky in New York. He didn't last night, either, but there were certainly some positive signs, and it was fun to watch. I'm too much of a realist to think he'll maintain that level of play for the rest of the season, but I'll never stop hoping he will

Something about Zherdev's scoring pace was mentioned on TSN. As I'd been curious about it as well, I decided to run the numbers on how often the top even-strength goal scorers actually score (10+ ESGs being the cutoff). I've watched many of your games this season, due to Zherdev, and I'd certainly never use his high rank on this list to mean anything other than he's on a very deep team and he likely hasn't seen the opposition's best defenders much this season: And, just from using my own eyes, I know he looked lost for many games. But it's still fairly impressive. He actually tops the list when you subtract empty net goals. In any case, if you're interested, here's how long it takes the top even-strength scorers to score (ranked by fewest minutes taken):

Lucic: 28.02 minutes (2.07 games)
Nash: 29.49 minutes (2.1 games)
Zherdev: 29.87 minutes (2.7 games)
Crosby: 30.9 minutes (1.9 games)
Cleary: 31.06 minutes (2.5 games)
Briere: 36.1 minutes (2.5 games)
Stamkos: 36.25 minutes (2.39 games)
Jones: 38.49 minutes (2.8 games)
Semin: 39.31 minutes (2.91 games)
Couture: 39.8 minutes (2.82 games)
Neal: 44.95 minutes (3 games)
Carter: 45.16 minutes (3.3 games)
Sharp: 45.83 minutes (3.2 games)
Duchene: 46.87 minutes (3.1 games)
St. Louis: 48.92 minutes (3.1 games)
Ryan: 51.05 minutes (3.1 games)
Ovechkin: 54.16 minutes (3.3 games)
Perry: 57.85 minutes (3.4 games)

Stats don't tell the whole story, of course. Zherdev can't be seeing the matchups many of those players are. It would also be a mistake to extrapolate from those stats that he would be scoring even more if given more ice time. If anything, more PP time would probably help his overall offensive contribution to the game.

It's bizarre for me to think of Zherdev only scoring goals. He's never been the best finisher, though he's always looked like he should be. For the great majority of his NHL career, he's thought "pass" before "shoot," though not in an extreme way, and "stickhandle/triple lutz" before either of those. I hope he can keep up his current play so he can maintain his spot in the lineup and start impressing people with his passing, and not just his goal scoring.

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12-16-2010, 05:44 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Renion View Post
Sorry to intrude, but I felt compelled after watching Zherdev's best game of the season last night. He's been my favorite player since he joined the Jackets...
The amount of non-flyers fans on this thread is becomming dangerously high

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12-16-2010, 07:13 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by JGalt View Post
Absolutely love the Z-Carter-Jvr line.
Three guys who all have a tendency to try to do it all alone, and somehow it works. Go figure.

If we could get 4 lines with chemistry, we'll be a juggernaut.

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12-16-2010, 08:17 AM
  #314
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Is this what you're looking for Renion?

01. Lucic - 392.27 - 14 G - 0.03569 G/EVM - 2.1414 G/60 EVM
02. Nash - 412.88 - 14 G - 0.03391 G/EVM - 2.0346 G/60 EVM
03. Zherdev - 328.53 - 11 G - 0.03348 G/EVM - 2.0088 G/60 EVM
04. Crosby - 525.78 - 17 G - 0.03233 G/EVM - 1.9398 G/60 EVM
05. Cleary - 372.67 - 12 G - 0.03220 G/EVM - 1.9320 G/60 EVM
06. Briere - 432.80 - 12 G - 0.02773 G/EVM - 1.6638 G/60 EVM
07. Stamkos - 471.28 - 13 G - 0.02758 G/EVM - 1.6548 G/60 EVM
08. D. Jones - 384.93 - 10 G - 0.02598 G/EVM - 1.5588 G/60 EVM
09. Semin - 432.37 - 11 G - 0.02544 G/EVM - 1.5264 G/60 EVM
10. Couture - 437.35 - 11 G - 0.02515 G/EVM - 1.5090 G/60 EVM
11. Neal - 449.52 - 10 G - 0.02225 G/EVM - 1.3350 G/60 EVM
12. J. Carter - 451.63 - 10 G - 0.02214 G/EVM - 1.3284 G/60 EVM
13. Sharp - 458.33 TOI - 10 G - 0.02182 G/EVM - 1.3092 G/60 EVM
14. Duchene - 468.67 - 10 G - 0.02134 G/EVM - 1.2804 G/60 EVM
15. St. Louis - 489.23 - 10 G - 0.02044 G/EVM - 1.2264 G/60 EVM
16. Ryan - 561.53 - 11 G - 0.01959 G/EVM - 1.1754 G/60 EVM
17. Ovechkin - 541.58 - 10 G - 0.01846 G/EVM - 1.1076 G/60 EVM
18. Perry - 578.47 - 10 G - 0.01729 G/EVM - 1.0374 G/60 EVM

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12-16-2010, 08:49 AM
  #315
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Is this what you're looking for Renion?

01. Lucic - 392.27 - 14 G - 0.03569 G/EVM - 2.1414 G/60 EVM
02. Nash - 412.88 - 14 G - 0.03391 G/EVM - 2.0346 G/60 EVM
03. Zherdev - 328.53 - 11 G - 0.03348 G/EVM - 2.0088 G/60 EVM
04. Crosby - 525.78 - 17 G - 0.03233 G/EVM - 1.9398 G/60 EVM
05. Cleary - 372.67 - 12 G - 0.03220 G/EVM - 1.9320 G/60 EVM
06. Briere - 432.80 - 12 G - 0.02773 G/EVM - 1.6638 G/60 EVM
07. Stamkos - 471.28 - 13 G - 0.02758 G/EVM - 1.6548 G/60 EVM
08. D. Jones - 384.93 - 10 G - 0.02598 G/EVM - 1.5588 G/60 EVM
09. Semin - 432.37 - 11 G - 0.02544 G/EVM - 1.5264 G/60 EVM
10. Couture - 437.35 - 11 G - 0.02515 G/EVM - 1.5090 G/60 EVM
11. Neal - 449.52 - 10 G - 0.02225 G/EVM - 1.3350 G/60 EVM
12. J. Carter - 451.63 - 10 G - 0.02214 G/EVM - 1.3284 G/60 EVM
13. Sharp - 458.33 TOI - 10 G - 0.02182 G/EVM - 1.3092 G/60 EVM
14. Duchene - 468.67 - 10 G - 0.02134 G/EVM - 1.2804 G/60 EVM
15. St. Louis - 489.23 - 10 G - 0.02044 G/EVM - 1.2264 G/60 EVM
16. Ryan - 561.53 - 11 G - 0.01959 G/EVM - 1.1754 G/60 EVM
17. Ovechkin - 541.58 - 10 G - 0.01846 G/EVM - 1.1076 G/60 EVM
18. Perry - 578.47 - 10 G - 0.01729 G/EVM - 1.0374 G/60 EVM

Nice list. I like Carter in the 12 hole as well. I can't imagine if the JVR-Carter-Zherdev line clicks like it did last night on a regular basis. I mean seriously. You know Hartnell-Briere-Leino are set. Loving the forecheck and hard nose play of Carcillo-Betts-Powe (Shelley sits when he comes back is my guess). And then our top line has Giroux with Richards and Nodl. Awesome. I remember it wasn't long ago that Nodl was considered a joke, now - he looks just fine on the top line. Sweet.

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12-16-2010, 09:28 AM
  #316
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Originally Posted by mja View Post
Three guys who all have a tendency to try to do it all alone, and somehow it works. Go figure.

If we could get 4 lines with chemistry, we'll be a juggernaut.
It is like the Hartnell-Briere-Leino line, a line with three guys who range from bad to decent defensively on the same line, yet haven't been a defensive liability.

I think the team is at it's closest for having all lines with chemistry if the JVR-Carter-Zherdev line can maintain it. The Nodl-Richard-Giroux does show flashes (especially Richards-Giroux) and the 4th line last night was good.

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12-16-2010, 09:42 AM
  #317
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His best game of the season.
Agreed. The entire JvR-Carter-Zherdev line played with a jump in their step, pressuring the puck, and sustaining some offensive zone time.

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12-16-2010, 09:48 AM
  #318
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They all have size too, even if Z doesnt use his very often

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12-16-2010, 10:03 AM
  #319
Renion
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Is this what you're looking for Renion?
I've always preferred to present it my way, to be honest In my opinion, minutes are easier to understand (and easier on the eyes), and how many games it takes for individual players to score, based on their ES TOI/G, seems easier to process (closer to reality) than how many goals they score per 60 minutes. Still, that might just be me!

Did you use Behindthenet.ca for those stats? I know it tracks the per-60-minutes stats, but I might be under-utilizing it if it's also capable of breaking it down by strength, as well as tracking ice time in decimal format--which would be a wonderful shortcut for someone like me, who forgets to save his spreadsheets. Help a stranger out? I'll look into it myself later if that's the one, and be very glad for it.

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12-16-2010, 10:06 AM
  #320
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Originally Posted by EasyMac View Post
It is like the Hartnell-Briere-Leino line, a line with three guys who range from bad to decent defensively on the same line, yet haven't been a defensive liability.

I think the team is at it's closest for having all lines with chemistry if the JVR-Carter-Zherdev line can maintain it. The Nodl-Richard-Giroux does show flashes (especially Richards-Giroux) and the 4th line last night was good.
The only tweak I would possibly want to look at is Nodl and JvR, putting someone like Nodl on the Carter-Zherdev pairing gives them a defensively responsible fwd who can help balance out the line. JvR and Giroux had some chemistry and I think JvR would also be a nice fit with Richards. Great result from all four lines last night though, total team effort.

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12-16-2010, 10:12 AM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
The only tweak I would possibly want to look at is Nodl and JvR, putting someone like Nodl on the Carter-Zherdev pairing gives them a defensively responsible fwd who can help balance out the line. JvR and Giroux had some chemistry and I think JvR would also be a nice fit with Richards. Great result from all four lines last night though, total team effort.
I have wanted JVR-Richards-Giroux together all year, but I think for now it wont happen. I think lavi is afraif of taking Nodl away from Richards

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12-16-2010, 10:17 AM
  #322
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I have wanted JVR-Richards-Giroux together all year, but I think for now it wont happen. I think lavi is afraif of taking Nodl away from Richards
With reason.

However, the who will have more goals poll from a couple of weeks ago is entertaining at this point.

JVR is 7-8-15 +11 now.

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12-16-2010, 10:24 AM
  #323
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I have wanted JVR-Richards-Giroux together all year, but I think for now it wont happen. I think lavi is afraif of taking Nodl away from Richards
I agree, but at some point it may be necessary to balance out Carter and Zherdev from a three zone perspective. Nodl had a great backcheck on a 3 on 2 late in the game, he could be the perfect fit to Carter and Zherdev much like Hartnell is to Leino and Briere(or really Leino is to cover for Briere's lack of defensive prowess). Then you have JvR-Richards-Giroux which looks more like a top line in the NHL which could be a very good two-way line and can match up against any line in the NHL.

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12-16-2010, 10:25 AM
  #324
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
I agree, but at some point it may be necessary to balance out Carter and Zherdev from a three zone perspective. Nodl had a great backcheck on a 3 on 2 late in the game, he could be the perfect fit to Carter and Zherdev much like Hartnell is to Leino and Briere. Then you have JvR-Richards-Giroux which looks more like a top line in the NHL which could be a very good two-way line and can match up against any line in the NHL.
Carter is great two way, and JVR is pretty good for a sophmore. Leave them until they get cold I would say

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12-16-2010, 10:40 AM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Renion View Post
I've always preferred to present it my way, to be honest In my opinion, minutes are easier to understand (and easier on the eyes), and how many games it takes for individual players to score, based on their ES TOI/G, seems easier to process (closer to reality) than how many goals they score per 60 minutes. Still, that might just be me!

Did you use Behindthenet.ca for those stats? I know it tracks the per-60-minutes stats, but I might be under-utilizing it if it's also capable of breaking it down by strength, as well as tracking ice time in decimal format--which would be a wonderful shortcut for someone like me, who forgets to save his spreadsheets. Help a stranger out? I'll look into it myself later if that's the one, and be very glad for it.
I did the math myself.

You need to take the number of goals scored at even strength...

i.e. Player X has scored 10 goals at even strength this year.

Then figure out the TOI in a format that fits 100ths instead of 60ths...

i.e. Player X has played 410:20 this year at even strength so divide 20 by 60 to get a usual number: 410.33 minutes of ice time at even strength.

Then divide the total number of goals by that TOI number...

i.e. 10 G / 410.33m = 0.02437 G/EVM.

Then multiply that number by however many minutes you want to show your data.

i.e. Let's say Player X played as many even strength minutes as Crosby this season. In theory he would have (0.02437 x 525.78 TOI = ) 13~ (12.81) even strength goals on the year.

It's not a perfect science obviously since you can't artificially factor in Strength of Team, Strength of Opposition, and other factors such as EN goals or situational prowess. It certainly doesn't demonstrate that one player is better than another. Statistics need to be used in conjunction with real life observations to have any legitimate meaning; they're a assistant for your argument, not what your argument should be based on.

But yeah, it's a painstaking process, but you can really use that stat to your advantage when determining the output of players with similar offensive talents in different TOI situations (I recently used it to demonstrate Carter's offensive output vs. Rick Nash's). It has it's drawbacks, but it also has it's benefits. In many situations it's more effective than PPG or straight up points when trying to determine how potent a player's offensive abilities are in perspective of actual ice time granted.

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