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Post #470: Zherdev lower body injury, not likely to play January 6th

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Old
01-04-2011, 09:58 AM
  #451
dingbathero
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I get a kick out of all the Z haters...

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01-04-2011, 10:01 AM
  #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dingbathero View Post
I get a kick out of all the Z haters...
I enjoy NHL coaches, too.

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01-04-2011, 11:27 AM
  #453
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The simple answer is to put powe with carcillo and betts. Put Z back on a scoring line. When you need checking at the end of a game, just move powe or betts up. The fact we are paying a fighter 1.1 mil, who I haven't seen decisively win a fight all season is mind boggling. Every game they end up scratching an actual hockey player like carcillo, powe or Z.

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01-04-2011, 11:47 AM
  #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I enjoy NHL coaches, too.
Once Lavi understands what to do with Z (which shouldn't be a benching) he'll produce more and play better. He COULD be leading the team in goals if he got more ice-time and PP time.

He is a score first play D second type player, anyone with delusions otherwise should wake up. As KICKSAVE27 points out, move him up and Carbomb/Powe down on the 4th, and then up when needed.

He does play hard every game, I can name players on the team that take shifts off, the past few games none of the players looked great. Z gets **** on all the time, not sure why.

He will NEVER replace Gags - and I think people on this board love to point fingers and use a scapegoat to their feelings being hurt.


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01-04-2011, 12:06 PM
  #455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dingbathero View Post
Once Lavi understands what to do with Z (which shouldn't be a benching) he'll produce more and play better. He COULD be leading the team in goals if he got more ice-time and PP time.

He is a score first play D second type player, anyone with delusions otherwise should wake up. As KICKSAVE27 points out, move him up and Carbomb/Powe down on the 4th, and then up when needed.

He does play hard every game, I can name players on the team that take shifts off, the past few games none of the players looked great. Z gets **** on all the time, not sure why.

He will NEVER replace Gags - and I think people on this board love to point fingers and use a scapegoat to their feelings being hurt.
It's always dangerous when you assume irrationality as an explanation for the thinking of others... There are quite rational and legitimate criticisms of Zherdev's game, and they date back to well before he appeared in a Flyers' uni. You can argue that made him a known entity, and thus people should not complain... but that doesn't really make any sense as far as an objective analysis of his game.

I also find it entertaining that the problem is with Lavi and not Z. Last I checked this team has done quite well under Lavi, believe he deserves the benefit of the doubt for the most part. He's done stuff that has frustrated me (moving Carter away from center, and starting Shelley)... but Lavi's problems with Z are quite reasonable.

1) He doesn't play well with his line mates. By that I mean he has a tendency to freelance and not be where his teammates expect him to be... he also isn't a big fan of passing, and has puck hogged to a considerable degree at various point this year.

2) He's lazy defensively. Nothing will get the rancor of the coach up faster than a player being irresponsible defensively, and Z is definitely guilty of this at times. He's rectified it in stretches, but he needs to show more consistency with this area of his game. [Special Note: No one expects him to transform into a Selke candidate, but he can compete on D better (and, yes, similar criticisms have been leveled at Briere).]

3) He takes way too many really stupid retaliatory penalties. Here you at least have a case, because a number of our players (again, looking at you Briere) take a lot of stupid penalties, but Z is definitely guilty of this with some regularity.

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01-04-2011, 12:10 PM
  #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dingbathero View Post
Once Lavi understands what to do with Z (which shouldn't be a benching) he'll produce more and play better. He COULD be leading the team in goals if he got more ice-time and PP time.

He is a score first play D second type player, anyone with delusions otherwise should wake up. As KICKSAVE27 points out, move him up and Carbomb/Powe down on the 4th, and then up when needed.

He does play hard every game, I can name players on the team that take shifts off, the past few games none of the players looked great. Z gets **** on all the time, not sure why.

He will NEVER replace Gags - and I think people on this board love to point fingers and use a scapegoat to their feelings being hurt.
Zherdev isn't as bad as people make him out, but he really is a bit of a liability defensively. I would like to see him get more PP, but with the Flyers, PP time is rather rare to come by with so many players that should be getting it. Giroux, Briere, Richards, Carter, JVR, Leino, Hartnell, and Shelley means we don't have much to spare for Z.

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01-04-2011, 12:13 PM
  #457
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Zherdev got hurt again at practice...

Being honest, he looks better on the 4th line then when he plays with Giroux and such. I barely notice him when he is in the top 9. On the 4th line he is allowed to dangle through people because, well, he is playing against other 4th liners.

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01-04-2011, 12:13 PM
  #458
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Z is hurt this time, not benched

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01-04-2011, 12:20 PM
  #459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
Zherdev isn't as bad as people make him out, but he really is a bit of a liability defensively. I would like to see him get more PP, but with the Flyers, PP time is rather rare to come by with so many players that should be getting it. Giroux, Briere, Richards, Carter, JVR, Leino, Hartnell, and Shelley means we don't have much to spare for Z.
That's because he's in the perfect situation on our team, aside from the fact that he gets benched a lot. Due to our depth and roster he doesn't have to be relied upon to carry a heavy work-load or to do anything other the score really. Right now he is the epitomizes the role of a secondary scorer.

If he were on a team like the Rags where he would be relied upon as a primary scorer in the top six...his flaws would shine through a lot more.

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01-04-2011, 12:24 PM
  #460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
1) He doesn't play well with his line mates. By that I mean he has a tendency to freelance and not be where his teammates expect him to be... he also isn't a big fan of passing, and has puck hogged to a considerable degree at various point this year.

2) He's lazy defensively. Nothing will get the rancor of the coach up faster than a player being irresponsible defensively, and Z is definitely guilty of this at times. He's rectified it in stretches, but he needs to show more consistency with this area of his game. [Special Note: No one expects him to transform into a Selke candidate, but he can compete on D better (and, yes, similar criticisms have been leveled at Briere).]

3) He takes way too many really stupid retaliatory penalties. Here you at least have a case, because a number of our players (again, looking at you Briere) take a lot of stupid penalties, but Z is definitely guilty of this with some regularity.
You just described Carter, too, btw.

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01-04-2011, 12:33 PM
  #461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
You just described Carter, too, btw.
maybe some day Zherdev will lead his team in goals back to back seasons.

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01-04-2011, 12:37 PM
  #462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
You just described Carter, too, btw.


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01-04-2011, 12:43 PM
  #463
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PS.

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Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
So, I am going to post this now so that I can quote it in a few weeks when Zherdev makes a mistake and everyone calls for his head.

You are all hypocrites.
Too soon?

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01-04-2011, 01:10 PM
  #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
You just described Carter, too, btw.
That's a joke right? I don't think any of Jeff Carter's line mates would describe him as unpredictable to say the least. He certainly isn't lazy defensively, and personally I think there is a strong difference in choosing a shot over a pass versus trying to stick handle through a few guys instead of a pass.

I like Zherdev and we don't know what goes on between him and the coaches but I have to think he isn't really buying in and is just hoping he can wow a few people into paying him.

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01-04-2011, 01:44 PM
  #465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
PS.



Too soon?
Get over it, when Z isn't scoring he has a negative impact on the team. When he is scoring we will all overlook this problems, but that doesn't mean the problems don't exist. If Zherdev played better game to game it would be different, but he plays well for 1 game and then sucks for 3 or so games.

Also Carter may be a shoot first guy, but that doesnt mean he doesnt play well with his team mates. Carter is great at cycling the puck with his linemates, Look at the Leino goal the other day for a recent example that paid off.

And Carter's penalties are never retalitory, they are usually tripping or slashing which comes from him being too aggressive on D with his stick. Opposite of Lazy


Last edited by HoverCarle*: 01-04-2011 at 01:51 PM.
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01-04-2011, 01:54 PM
  #466
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When you're capable of 46 goals and have a wrist shot as nice as Carter's, you better damn well be shooting a lot.

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01-04-2011, 01:58 PM
  #467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
When you're capable of 46 goals and have a wrist shot as nice as Carter's, you better damn well be shooting a lot.
Exactly. Dangling is way more selfish and risky than shooting a lot

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01-04-2011, 01:58 PM
  #468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
You just described Carter, too, btw.

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01-04-2011, 02:00 PM
  #469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
You just described Carter, too, btw.
Carter's line (as a group) tends to do well with him at center... and his passing has improved considerably over the last couple of years. However, he remains a shooter and should be a shooter with his shot.

Carter is not lazy defensively. At all.

Carter has taken some dumb penalties this year (everyone has), but I wouldn't say he's a retaliatory guy.

So, no, didn't describe Carter.

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01-04-2011, 02:59 PM
  #470
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From the Flyers:

Quote:
NHLFlyers: Also, per Holmgren: "Zherdev has a lower body issue. He will be held off the ice tomorrow and re-evaluated on Thursday."
It's likely a thigh issue.


Last edited by MiamiScreamingEagles: 01-04-2011 at 03:19 PM.
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01-04-2011, 03:26 PM
  #471
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
That's a joke right? I don't think any of Jeff Carter's line mates would describe him as unpredictable to say the least. He certainly isn't lazy defensively, and personally I think there is a strong difference in choosing a shot over a pass versus trying to stick handle through a few guys instead of a pass.

I like Zherdev and we don't know what goes on between him and the coaches but I have to think he isn't really buying in and is just hoping he can wow a few people into paying him.
when i see it its usually stick handle through guys or dump it, not necesarily pass. part of gaining confidence in your linemates is spending time with them which has been a problem for z. i like him as the playmaker on carters wing and i hope he stays there

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01-04-2011, 03:31 PM
  #472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post

1) He doesn't play well with his line mates.

2) He's lazy defensively. Nothing will get the rancor of the coach up faster than a player being irresponsible defensively, and Z is definitely guilty of this at times. He's rectified it in stretches, but he needs to show more consistency with this area of his game. [Special Note: No one expects him to transform into a Selke candidate, but he can compete on D better (and, yes, similar criticisms have been leveled at Briere).]

3) He takes way too many really stupid retaliatory penalties. Here you at least have a case, because a number of our players (again, looking at you Briere) take a lot of stupid penalties, but Z is definitely guilty of this with some regularity.
1. Maybe his linemates don't play well with him
2. He is making the effort and I think that counts for something, esp with his skill.
3. As is Hartnell. PLUS he has 16 PIM's on the year... how many goals did other teams score while he was in the box, I wonder?

I'm not completely in LOVE with Z, but I can say that the past month and a half his level of effort has gone up considerably. Given that, he should be producing more, however, he has a great shooting percentage and doesn't get near the icetime as other players. Also, not having a 'set' line for most of the year can hinder players more than it helps.

To play devils advocate - when JVR was benched, he came back and played in the top 9 - he produced, after Z's he also produced. JVR has been on top lines longer, I think if Z was there you'd see his numbers jump ALOT higher than JVR's.

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01-04-2011, 03:42 PM
  #473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Exactly. Dangling is way more selfish and risky than shooting a lot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
When you're capable of 46 goals and have a wrist shot as nice as Carter's, you better damn well be shooting a lot.
Carter high and wide never resulted with odd man rush...

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01-04-2011, 03:55 PM
  #474
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Since the Flyers have 3.6 million in space - does anybody out there have a 5-5.6 million dollar winger who plays with an edge they would trade away for Zherdev and some cap relief?

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01-04-2011, 04:02 PM
  #475
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Originally Posted by Gert B Frobe View Post
Since the Flyers have 3.6 million in space - does anybody out there have a 5-5.6 million dollar winger who plays with an edge they would trade away for Zherdev and some cap relief?
The Flyers dont have 3.6 in cap

Quote:
* First, the basics. Right now, the Flyers have 24 players counting against the cap. Two of them are on LTIR (Matt Walker and Ian Laperriere) while another is on IR (Chris Pronger). This leaves them with 21 healthy players: 13 Forwards, 6 Defensemen, and 2 Goalies.
* The daily cap is $319,355. The 24 players on their current roster (and 21 healthy ones) cost $315,093, leaving the team with a $4,262 daily surplus.
* So, as long as the Flyers are rolling with these 24 players, they won't even be using LTIR during that span.
* As of now, the Flyers are $161,231 over the yearly salary cap. If they continue with these 24 players, they will be under the salary cap in 38 days. That means February 11th, 2011 would be the first time the Flyers are under the salary cap since Mike Rathje was placed on LTIR sometime around November 30th, 2006.
* If the Flyers wanted to call up a defensemen tomorrow, they could. They only have 21 players on the roster and they have $4,262 in daily cap space to do it. Yes, actual, real cap space.
* However, if the Flyers wished to recall Eric Gustafsson ($4,839 daily), they would be using LTIR to afford it, and thus would not be under the cap in 38 days.
* Either way, at the current rate, the Flyers will finish the season $247,910 below the salary cap, with a possible (but unlikely) $1.9 million in bonuses to pay.

But how do people come up with the incorrect $3.5 million in cap space you ask? Simple. Those individuals take the LTIR exemption ($15,412 per day/$2.866 million per year) and add the actual daily cap space created by this move ($4,262 per day/$792k per year) and come up with a $3.658 million figure.

Those people are wrong. First, there are only 96 days left in the season, so any space created going forward cannot be transferred into yearly amounts. The $792,000 yearly figure? It's only $409,152 because the season is halfway over. What about the $2.866 million LTIR exemption you ask? Well, ignoring the fact that number is temporary (Matt Walker does have to come off LTIR, remember), the Flyers get that amount for 96 days, not a full season. That's $1.48 million.
http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...nd-depth-chart

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