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Post #470: Zherdev lower body injury, not likely to play January 6th

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12-14-2010, 12:16 PM
  #176
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I still question why the Flyers decided to make Giroux a Center. He is great on the wing, leave him there. A great winger is a good thing. We are stacked at Center. As per his scouting report - he was thought to have first line talent at wing.....move him there with Richards.

From Hockeys Future:
Talent Analysis
Giroux’s greatest talent is his playmaking ability. Boasting excellent hands and great vision, the diminutive winger is able to use his quick skating ability to turn something out of nothing. Giroux, despite his size disadvantage, does not mind getting his nose dirty, and will stand in to take a hit in order to make a play. He does get bodied often, but the shifty winger is agile enough to avoid checks on a regular basis.

Future
Giroux’s size may have been a hindrance in the old NHL, however, he appears to be a prototypical product for the net NHL, with blazing speed and dynamite skill. He has the potential to be a first-line winger.

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12-14-2010, 12:18 PM
  #177
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he is playing wing right now. JVR-Richards-Giroux should be our first line, but for some reason Lavy won't do it.

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12-14-2010, 12:21 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Gagne won the Bruins series for us
Gagne was a GREAT player and one of my all-time favorite Flyers. However, I think this team had to move on and could not afford another 50 game season for 5 Million dollars. That simply kills the team in the regular season. I miss him, but I think we are fine without him. He is having another injury filled season, and unfortunately, that was predictable and expected.

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12-14-2010, 12:22 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
he is playing wing right now. JVR-Richards-Giroux should be our first line, but for some reason Lavy won't do it.
But keep in mind - he is the second best center in the league today! So say the experts

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12-14-2010, 12:28 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
But keep in mind - he is the second best center in the league today! So say the experts
Engblom is only an expert at growing an ugly mullet

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12-14-2010, 01:13 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Zherdev didn't step into this team to be Gagne, but we did have to replace Gagne's goal scoring production which we did. That was important.
No Zherdev is no Gagne and that is clear from his benchings and lack of two way play/team game. However, his all around scoring (not just goal scoring) leaves much to be desired and at 2M to be relegated to the 4th line and in and out of the lineup thus far speaks volumes. The move was a gamble and so far it's been a bad gamble...no different with Leighton and Walker. Again the added value of Holmgren's offseason moves have thus far been negligible. Let's see if any of the 3 remain on this team by season's end.....

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12-14-2010, 01:18 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
No Zherdev is no Gagne
Zherdev is no Gagne and Gagne is no Zherdev. They are two different people. They are not even husband and wife... Wasn't it clear from the very beginning?

Also look at Gagne's stats this year.

LOL

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12-14-2010, 01:54 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vera1964 View Post
Zherdev is no Gagne and Gagne is no Zherdev. They are two different people. They are not even husband and wife... Wasn't it clear from the very beginning?

Also look at Gagne's stats this year.

LOL
Thanks for stating the obvious. I wasn't against moving Gagne necessarily but def not for Walker and certainly thought there were better options than Zherdev given Zherdev's history of being wonky. That is the point some of us are trying to get across. To me it says a lot that you stink in the beginning of the year already and go crying to the GM when you are trying to vindicate yourself in the league again. Maybe he'll break out and "get it" but somehow I doubt it and if this is a season long malady with him might as well dump him and try and get somebody who has a better shot of producing in the playoffs when the going gets really tough....

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12-14-2010, 01:58 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vera1964 View Post
Zherdev is no Gagne and Gagne is no Zherdev. They are two different people. They are not even husband and wife... Wasn't it clear from the very beginning?

Also look at Gagne's stats this year.

LOL
Remember that time Gagne went to the KHL because nobody in the NHL wanted him?

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12-14-2010, 02:00 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
I still question why the Flyers decided to make Giroux a Center. He is great on the wing, leave him there. A great winger is a good thing. We are stacked at Center. As per his scouting report - he was thought to have first line talent at wing.....move him there with Richards.

From Hockeys Future:
Talent Analysis
Giroux’s greatest talent is his playmaking ability. Boasting excellent hands and great vision, the diminutive winger is able to use his quick skating ability to turn something out of nothing. Giroux, despite his size disadvantage, does not mind getting his nose dirty, and will stand in to take a hit in order to make a play. He does get bodied often, but the shifty winger is agile enough to avoid checks on a regular basis.

Future
Giroux’s size may have been a hindrance in the old NHL, however, he appears to be a prototypical product for the net NHL, with blazing speed and dynamite skill. He has the potential to be a first-line winger.

The best reasons I can give are right there in the analysis. His greatest skill is his playmaking ability. You have a guy who can carry the puck into the zone with possession and set up the offense. That is why getting him the puck in the center ice is so important.

His vision on the ice allows him to see players and create space with his passing skills. He does not just rush up the ice shoot the puck in the zone or if he does he has the finesse and skating ability to softly dump it into the corners and chase down the puck.

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12-14-2010, 02:03 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
he is playing wing right now. JVR-Richards-Giroux should be our first line, but for some reason Lavy won't do it.
I agree, and drop Nodl with Carter and Zherdev.

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12-14-2010, 02:07 PM
  #187
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Yes - but he has in the past and continues to make plays on the wing. We are very strong down the middle. I say make the decision to leave him on the wing. If we get an injury, move him back to Center as he can clearly play the position. But lets just make a decision to leave the natural centers (Richards, Carter, Briere) where they are. Let natural wingers JVR, Giroux, Zherdev, Leino, Hartnell and Nodl complete your top three lines on the wing. Remember when JVR was drafted they were also thinking about converting him to Center? Just cause they are good doesn't mean they must play center.

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12-14-2010, 02:18 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
To me it says a lot that you stink in the beginning of the year already and go crying to the GM when you are trying to vindicate yourself in the league again.
First, I don't believe many people will agree with you that he exactly stinks. If he really stunk, nobody would be talking about him right now. You don't score goals at the rate (ES, per minute played) close to the league lead if you stink. Nothing on his stats (except assists) says that he stinks. What really stinks right now is Flyers PP and shootouts (done without him).

Second, please provide the source that would exactly described what happened between Z, Laviolette and Holmgren. And also please find out what did Holmgren promise to Z when he gave him the offer. If the promise wasn't kept, it's natural to at least ask why.

Lastly, Z was not brought to the Flyers to replace Gagne. He was brought to replace Gagne's production. Which is 17G + 23A = 40P, -1 (playing 18.5 min per game with plenty PP time). I am pretty sure Z will easily do this if Laviolette finds a decent spot for him (outside of the press box).

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12-14-2010, 02:19 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
Remember that time Gagne went to the KHL because nobody in the NHL wanted him?
May happen next year.

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12-14-2010, 02:22 PM
  #190
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are you even a Flyers fan? or just a Zherdev fan?

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12-14-2010, 02:24 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
are you even a Flyers fan? or just a Zherdev fan?
I already stated before that I am a Rangers fan. Obviously I am a Zherdev's fan, too.

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12-14-2010, 02:29 PM
  #192
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Okay well convince the Rags to take Zherdev and Walker for Frolov

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12-14-2010, 02:32 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Yes - but he has in the past and continues to make plays on the wing. We are very strong down the middle. I say make the decision to leave him on the wing. If we get an injury, move him back to Center as he can clearly play the position. But lets just make a decision to leave the natural centers (Richards, Carter, Briere) where they are. Let natural wingers JVR, Giroux, Zherdev, Leino, Hartnell and Nodl complete your top three lines on the wing. Remember when JVR was drafted they were also thinking about converting him to Center? Just cause they are good doesn't mean they must play center.
What is bothersome is that Carter is built and has the tools to be a good winger. Good wrist shot, willing to take the shot, good size to play along the boards and his speed is accelerating from the outside, not splitting d-men down the middle. At this point due to the inability to move Carter to wing and be productive it seems like the choice of least resistence. If Laviolette is going to go this route he at least should put Giroux with JvR and Richards IMO, it gives this line a guy who can distrubute the puck to Richards and JvR in open space from the wing spot.

The benefit to Giroux, he is versatile and can play either, but his puck possession is much better suited to him carrying the puck and distributing from the middle. And during his last year in the Q he split some time between center and wing but the reason why he stayed at wing was similar to why he is there now, his versatility.

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12-14-2010, 02:35 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Okay well convince the Rags to take Zherdev and Walker for Frolov
You missed my point -- I am a Ranger fan -- not Glen Sather

Why would you need Frolov? He is the one who really stinks.

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12-14-2010, 02:38 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by vera1964 View Post
You missed my point -- I am a Ranger fan -- not Glen Sather

Why would you need Frolov? He is the one who really stinks.
Id rather a stinker who can play a cycle and a defensive game. He would work well with Carter

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12-14-2010, 02:45 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Id rather a stinker who can play a cycle and a defensive game. He would work well with Carter
Didn't play too well with Gaborik.

I watched a game where Zherdev fed Carter with a few very good scoring chances. The next game Laviolette broke the line.

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12-14-2010, 02:47 PM
  #197
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First, I don't believe many people will agree with you that he exactly stinks. If he really stunk, nobody would be talking about him right now. You don't score goals at the rate (ES, per minute played) close to the league lead if you stink. Nothing on his stats (except assists) says that he stinks. What really stinks right now is Flyers PP and shootouts (done without him).

Second, please provide the source that would exactly described what happened between Z, Laviolette and Holmgren. And also please find out what did Holmgren promise to Z when he gave him the offer. If the promise wasn't kept, it's natural to at least ask why.

Lastly, Z was not brought to the Flyers to replace Gagne. He was brought to replace Gagne's production. Which is 17G + 23A = 40P, -1 (playing 18.5 min per game with plenty PP time). I am pretty sure Z will easily do this if Laviolette finds a decent spot for him (outside of the press box).
Zherdev would be good on a bad team, like the Skirts. But on a team who is going to be competing for a Stanley Cup and already has scoring depth he is kind of like a piece that does not fit. If he was on the Atlanta Thrashers he would be everything you want him to be, and miss the playoffs.

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12-14-2010, 02:51 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Zherdev would be good on a bad team, like the Skirts. But on a team who is going to be competing for a Stanley Cup and already has scoring depth he is kind of like a piece that does not fit. If he was on the Atlanta Thrashers he would be everything you want him to be, and miss the playoffs.
Hey, please don't be full of yourself. If Lundqvist had had a better day at some point recently, you would have had hard time even rememberring the word "playoffs" right now

I think you should keep Zherdev for your shootouts after all... who knows?

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12-14-2010, 02:52 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by vera1964 View Post
First, I don't believe many people will agree with you that he exactly stinks. If he really stunk, nobody would be talking about him right now. You don't score goals at the rate (ES, per minute played) close to the league lead if you stink. Nothing on his stats (except assists) says that he stinks. What really stinks right now is Flyers PP and shootouts (done without him).

Second, please provide the source that would exactly described what happened between Z, Laviolette and Holmgren. And also please find out what did Holmgren promise to Z when he gave him the offer. If the promise wasn't kept, it's natural to at least ask why.

Lastly, Z was not brought to the Flyers to replace Gagne. He was brought to replace Gagne's production. Which is 17G + 23A = 40P, -1 (playing 18.5 min per game with plenty PP time). I am pretty sure Z will easily do this if Laviolette finds a decent spot for him (outside of the press box).

Stink not per lack of talent but in the sense that he's getting benched and relegated to the 4th line continuously and not playing within the team system. Laviolette is a stickler for that and I don't fault him for laying down the law. What is he supposed to do make an exception b/c Zherdev plays a free-lance style? Actually, I don't fault Laviolette too much b/c he's trying to round the guy out and send a message. So far he's not really getting it consistently and at some point you say the guy doesn't fit in with the team concept and you move him. Just b/c he has talent you can't wait forever until he gets an attitude adjustment. Now I know the Flyers aren't always the most patient team (i.e. Downie) but with Zherdev I don't think they are necessarily being unfair although yeah Laviolette sometimes makes questionable personnel decisions. Zherdev probably belongs out West with a more freewheeling team although you would think he could flourish on the Flyers b/c of Laviolette's pressure offense but Zherdev makes too many low percentage plays with the puck to suit even Laviolette's offensive scheme and then of course Z's D game compounds the problem...

As far as the incident with Holmgren....the specifics were murky but Holmgren has always said that Laviolette is the ultimate decision maker and it's his team. Pretty logical unless you want to undermine respect for the coach among the players. I doubt Zherdev was promised anything beyond two million and a chance at redemption in the league. If Holmgren promised him minutes and a set spot on one of the top lines well he would be a big idiot. The fact is that Zherdev overstepped his bounds by going above his coach and he deserves to be called out for it.

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12-14-2010, 03:17 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
As far as the incident with Holmgren....the specifics were murky but Holmgren has always said that Laviolette is the ultimate decision maker and it's his team. Pretty logical unless you want to undermine respect for the coach among the players. I doubt Zherdev was promised anything beyond two million and a chance at redemption in the league. If Holmgren promised him minutes and a set spot on one of the top lines well he would be a big idiot. The fact is that Zherdev overstepped his bounds by going above his coach and he deserves to be called out for it.
I don't know. It really seems unreal to me that somebody in Zs position would do something like that. Maybe he just answered a question or something, but specifically going to GM in hope that he will make the coach give him minutes... I don't believe this. Seems more like another Tim Panaccio's creation.

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