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Quebec Invades The Island

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Old
12-13-2010, 10:29 AM
  #126
htpwn
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Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
It's the National Capital because the seat of the Province of Quebec is there, Quebec city was the Capital of New France, and is the oldest continually habited, European city in the Americas (it's true, check on Wikipedia). It's a touristic name, like The Big Apple.

Quebec city had a complete U-Turn in the last 15 years, it has near full employment, houses are being built around the clock, our economy is booming, and our population is richer and richer.

And by the way, those who live in the US cannot tell us we dont have enough money to see games, when we are one of the richest regions in Canada, and the US is going down the hole with 20% unemployment and a probable HUGE crisis in the next 6 months when reach 14 trillions in debt (the absolute limit allowed).

In the 80's Quebec was backwater and, in fact, sovereignist.

Now Quebec city is a city of the future, we've moved passed that dumb debate and are moving full speed ahead with bold ideas, the highest job creation rate and the lowest unemployment rate in Canada, while cities like Glendale and Detroit are the past (even if they dont understand it yet).
Not to get all political, as surely the mods will lock this thread if it does go in that direction, but it seems sovereignist feelings still lingered by 1995 as evidenced by the vote in the 1995 referendum...



I would presume it has changed in the last 15 years? Rendering this a non-issue?

As for the "National Capital," I have a feeling it goes beyond the tourist thing (Ex. the National Assembly Of Quebec), but I'll leave it at that. No real point in arguing over a name.

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12-13-2010, 10:37 AM
  #127
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Let's not turn this all political. Can this planet have a thread about Quebec without it being derailed towards political stuff.

Let's stick to hockey, shall we??

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Old
12-13-2010, 01:23 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by OthmarAmmann View Post
Ah yes, that makes more sense. You can actually see a bunch of security in yellow in the second pic. Made sense to me at the time since I had drank a fair bit of beer.

Made for a better atmosphere at the end of the game, esp when the Isles scored their fourth goal. Would've been cool if they had tied it... it would've been loud.
it was great, they really brought the energy. watching them go down to the lower bowl was hilarious, they just stormed it.
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Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir View Post
The Oilers were filling up the house last season when they were having losing streaks in the tens, so...yes?
sorry CorbeauNoir, the situations dont even compare.

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Old
12-13-2010, 01:43 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
It's the National Capital because the seat of the Province of Quebec is there, Quebec city was the Capital of New France, and is the oldest continually habited, European city in the Americas (it's true, check on Wikipedia). It's a touristic name, like The Big Apple.

Quebec city had a complete U-Turn in the last 15 years, it has near full employment, houses are being built around the clock, our economy is booming, and our population is richer and richer.

And by the way, those who live in the US cannot tell us we dont have enough money to see games, when we are one of the richest regions in Canada, and the US is going down the hole with 20% unemployment and a probable HUGE crisis in the next 6 months when reach 14 trillions in debt (the absolute limit allowed).

In the 80's Quebec was backwater and, in fact, sovereignist.

Now Quebec city is a city of the future, we've moved passed that dumb debate and are moving full speed ahead with bold ideas, the highest job creation rate and the lowest unemployment rate in Canada, while cities like Glendale and Detroit are the past (even if they dont understand it yet).
Are you running for PM?

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Old
12-13-2010, 01:47 PM
  #130
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But it certainly does compare to the Nord's 1989-1990 31 point season

During the "vaches maigres" era of the nordiques the team still maintained attendences around the league average.

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12-13-2010, 02:18 PM
  #131
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If Atlanta goes to Quebec, the BOG has to approve...

So who is willing to leave the Northeast Division?
So who is going to join the Southeast Division?
What about Detroit? They were promised to be the first team to transfer to the Eastern Conference, this delays that significantly.

Atlanta going to Winnipeg wouldn't be as much of an issue, because Nashville (or even Columbus) can be kicked over to the Southeast Division in the East.

Atlanta to Quebec is a potential mess.

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12-13-2010, 02:32 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Toxostoma Rufum View Post
If Atlanta goes to Quebec, the BOG has to approve...

So who is willing to leave the Northeast Division?
So who is going to join the Southeast Division?
What about Detroit? They were promised to be the first team to transfer to the Eastern Conference, this delays that significantly.

Atlanta going to Winnipeg wouldn't be as much of an issue, because Nashville (or even Columbus) can be kicked over to the Southeast Division in the East.

Atlanta to Quebec is a potential mess.
I think we're a long way from having to seriously worry about this. No shiny new arena = no team. Check back when the shovels are in the ground.

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12-13-2010, 04:07 PM
  #133
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Atlanta won't be relocating. The BOG believes that Atlanta is one of the markets required for that elusive big TV deal.

Having a team in QC does not put the league any closer to the big TV deal that the owners have been striving for all these years. Sadly, the same goes for Hartford, KC, Seattle, Portland, Hamilton and Winnipeg.

The only place I can see a team moving to would be some place like Houston, a big US TV market.

I applaud the efforts of Nordique Nation, but in the end, all this has done is that it has shown the Islander fans what they might become in a few years if they don't start supporting their team.

Like it or not, the NY TV market is already well served with the Rangers and Devils. If the team is losing money and the owner wants to move, I doubt if the League will do for the Islanders what they did for the Penguins and Coyotes.


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12-13-2010, 04:41 PM
  #134
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I live in Quebec City. These people are embarassing us. You have to be a special kind of idiot to not realize that this move is rather classless. Not only that, it's entirely useless. As long as a owner like Wang is willing to lose money, the team will stay where it is. And if he doesn't find someone to sell it to, the league will step in and do everything it can to keep the franchise where it is. These people don't understand the league's rules.

Considering some franchise does move, nothing proves that it will go to Quebec City, which doesn't have a proper arena as of now. I think Bettman already hinted that Winnipeg is next in line. What about Hamilton? Or Kansas City? Or whatever?

Quebec City could not even keep an AHL team. Imagine that. Now the people in this city want an NHL franchise?

These people are delusional. Of course, it helps that they are being brainwashed into this every single day. Like I said, I live in Quebec city. I know first hand about the personality cult there is around this ridiculous mayor and how every media talk about this on a daily basis. I swear, since this mayor has been in office, I haven't seen on single front page that didn't talk about a new arena or the NOrdiques return or some other fantasy, like the Olympics, or a high speed train, or a state-of-the-art tramway, or whatever... And people in Quebec city like to think all of this is happening even though none of these things are not even close to fruition.

Dreaming is one thing. Lunacy is another. The kool aid drinking is scary.

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Old
12-13-2010, 05:06 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
Quebec city had a complete U-Turn in the last 15 years, it has near full employment, houses are being built around the clock, our economy is booming, and our population is richer and richer.

And by the way, those who live in the US cannot tell us we dont have enough money to see games, when we are one of the richest regions in Canada, and the US is going down the hole with 20% unemployment and a probable HUGE crisis in the next 6 months when reach 14 trillions in debt (the absolute limit allowed).

In the 80's Quebec was backwater and, in fact, sovereignist.

Now Quebec city is a city of the future, we've moved passed that dumb debate and are moving full speed ahead with bold ideas, the highest job creation rate and the lowest unemployment rate in Canada, while cities like Glendale and Detroit are the past (even if they dont understand it yet).
Wow, can you be more arrogant...and ignorant? I'm from Quebec City and I'm gonna educate you on a few things.

First of all, Quebec City low unemployement rate is partly an illusion because of a dire lack of labor. Meaning, no one wants to move here. I know that firsthand. I have a very accurate of the job market. I'm a consultant and I've worked in just about every headquarter or minister in the city. The problem is always the same...not enough job applicants. The city is faring well in the current economic conditions largely because of the public sector. The private sector and "job creation" is an illusion since the current government is heavily subcontracting to the private sector to give the public the illusion that it's dwinling down in size (it isn't). If you look at Quebec city's employment rate (different stat), it isn't that great.

Second, to claim that this is one of the richest region in Canada is beyond ridiculous. The last statistics but GDP per capita in the city around 36k. This trails just about every provinces (in comparison, the GDP in Alberta is around 74K!).

Third, the unemployment in the US is stil officially 9.8%. And the GDP of the Detroit metropolitan area is more than half the GDP of the entire province of Quebec. Even though Detroit has its struggles, how do you even compare that juggernaut of a city to our tiny city? How can you even began to compare the Phoenix metropolitan area to Quebec city's?

The only real concrete thing that has happened in the last years in Quebec city is the 400th aniversar. The Moulin à Images and the Cirque du Soleil, which are small events that are publically funded. The rest is just empty promises by a mayor who knows you're gullible. Houses being built is not a sign of anything. With interest rates near zero, new housing is not very surprising, isn't it? And despite what people in Quebec city think, the rebuilding of the infrastructure is done by the provincial government which has invested massive loads of money accross the entire province. It has nothing to do with the city.

The problem in Quebec city is that most people are unillingual and ever travel, except for the occasional trip to the Carabeans in tourists ghettos. People are ignorant and are easily convinced into thinking they are HUGE when in fact, it's rather small dot on the map!

Quit embarassing us by blustering about things that DO NO exist.


Last edited by mouser: 12-14-2010 at 01:05 AM. Reason: ...
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Old
12-13-2010, 05:20 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 17 View Post
Atlanta won't be relocating. The BOG believes that Atlanta is one of the markets required for that elusive big TV deal.

Having a team in QC does not put the league any closer to the big TV deal that the owners have been striving for all these years. Sadly, the same goes for Hartford, KC, Seattle, Portland, Hamilton and Winnipeg.

The only place I can see a team moving to would be some place like Houston, a big US TV market.

I applaud the efforts of Nordique Nation, but in the end, all this has done is that it has shown the Islander fans what they might become in a few years if they don't start supporting their team.

Like it or not, the NY TV market is already well served with the Rangers and Devils. If the team is losing money and the owner wants to move, I doubt if the League will do for the Islanders what they did for the Penguins and Coyotes.
unfortunate about just foucusing on the TV deal QC is the nicest and most beautiful city ive been to in north america

could really be a nice place for NHL fans to visit and see a great city

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Old
12-13-2010, 06:09 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by CarrePrisme View Post
Quebec City could not even keep an AHL team. Imagine that. Now the people in this city want an NHL franchise?
The Toronto Marlies have one of the worst attendance in the AHL. If the Toronto market can't support an AHL team, how will they ever support an NHL team? Oh, wait... you're 100% wrong. Hmmm... maybe it has to do with people not wanting to watch crappy hockey. Maybe... just maybe.

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12-13-2010, 06:17 PM
  #138
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Hmmm... maybe it has to do with people not wanting to watch crappy hockey. Maybe... just maybe.

Eye of the beholder, my friend. Eye of the beholder.

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Old
12-13-2010, 08:07 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by CarrePrisme View Post
I live in Quebec City. These people are embarassing us. You have to be a special kind of idiot to not realize that this move is rather classless. Not only that, it's entirely useless. As long as a owner like Wang is willing to lose money, the team will stay where it is. And if he doesn't find someone to sell it to, the league will step in and do everything it can to keep the franchise where it is. These people don't understand the league's rules.

Considering some franchise does move, nothing proves that it will go to Quebec City, which doesn't have a proper arena as of now. I think Bettman already hinted that Winnipeg is next in line. What about Hamilton? Or Kansas City? Or whatever?

Quebec City could not even keep an AHL team. Imagine that. Now the people in this city want an NHL franchise?

These people are delusional. Of course, it helps that they are being brainwashed into this every single day. Like I said, I live in Quebec city. I know first hand about the personality cult there is around this ridiculous mayor and how every media talk about this on a daily basis. I swear, since this mayor has been in office, I haven't seen on single front page that didn't talk about a new arena or the NOrdiques return or some other fantasy, like the Olympics, or a high speed train, or a state-of-the-art tramway, or whatever... And people in Quebec city like to think all of this is happening even though none of these things are not even close to fruition.

Dreaming is one thing. Lunacy is another. The kool aid drinking is scary.
Where I come from this used to be a prevalent attitude. Every time a Toronto politician would propose something to help the city, people would say it couldn't be done. For example, they said we couldn't develop our waterfront.

1999


2010


2014 Projection


Check.

The bottom line is you have to be optimistic about what your city can accomplish. I've noticed by reading comments on newspaper articles that, where what seems like a great deal of people, in both Winnipeg and Quebec City don't feel their city is capable of hosting an NHL franchise.

You need to believe in your city and believe that things that may seem improbable now, may very well work out ten years down the road if you continue to work at it. Quebec City has a chance at an NHL franchise, even you (despite your pessimism) cannot deny that. Why not work towards it?


Last edited by htpwn: 12-13-2010 at 08:15 PM.
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Old
12-13-2010, 08:18 PM
  #140
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Hey, Bettman went to Columbus for crying out loud. If you have a billionaire owner and an arena in waiting then you're in the conversation, hence Winnipeg. Quebecor wants to own the team, build that arena and you're on the short list. I just don't know when/if a team will be available.

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12-13-2010, 10:17 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by berklon View Post
The Toronto Marlies have one of the worst attendance in the AHL. If the Toronto market can't support an AHL team, how will they ever support an NHL team? Oh, wait... you're 100% wrong. Hmmm... maybe it has to do with people not wanting to watch crappy hockey. Maybe... just maybe.
Yeah, AHL is crappy hockey.

Here's another example then...Quebec city claims to be a football city. It doesn't even have a CFL team, which you will agree, is easier to support than an NHL franchise.

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12-13-2010, 10:20 PM
  #142
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To be honest, having a QMJHL team is much better than having an AHL team.


Last edited by Fel 96: 12-13-2010 at 10:36 PM. Reason: avoid the confusion
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Old
12-13-2010, 10:32 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
You need to believe in your city and believe that things that may seem improbable now, may very well work out ten years down the road if you continue to work at it. Quebec City has a chance at an NHL franchise, even you (despite your pessimism) cannot deny that. Why not work towards it?
I have no problem with optimism, but not at the expense of logic and reason. If you lived you would understand what I mean after a week of reading the papers, which have been stricly talking about this for two years now.

This project has a lot of ifs, monopolizes the media, is certainly not a priority, etc....

It is strictly political and people are eating it up.

And please don't compare Toronto to Quebec City. One is an alpha world city, the other well...it's not surnamed a village for nothing.

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12-13-2010, 10:39 PM
  #144
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I grew up in Oshawa, and always went to Generals games.

In Highschool, they won the Memorial Cup. I saw such players as

Eric Londros
Jason Arnott
Stephan Yelle
Fred Brathwaite
Jarrod Skalde
Mike Craig

The quality of AHL hockey far exceeds that of CHL hockey. Don't get me wrong, it is still fantastic hockey, and I shut the rest of the world out when the WJ's are on over the holidays. Having good exposure to both, I can attest that the AHL is of better quality.

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12-13-2010, 10:50 PM
  #145
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To be honest, having a QMJHL team is much better than having an AHL team.

Junior team > AHL ????

On what grounds?

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12-13-2010, 11:09 PM
  #146
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Hey, Bettman went to Columbus for crying out loud. If you have a billionaire owner and an arena in waiting then you're in the conversation, hence Winnipeg. Quebecor wants to own the team, build that arena and you're on the short list. I just don't know when/if a team will be available.
If by "for crying out loud", you mean....
- the 16th-largest city in the United States
- a long history of hockey, including (at the time) an ECHL team that had sellout records spanning several seasons despite limited on-ice success
- the home of four Fortune 500 companies, plus being major centers for multiple massive foreign companies
- a city with a total college population of over 100,000
- a centrally located city where the entire population (over 11,000,000) of the state is within a three-hour drive, as well as the populations of southern Detroit, Indianapolis, Fort Wayne, Louisville, Lexington, and all points in between
- an owner (John H. McConnell) who would run the team like a gift for the city instead of cutting corners wherever possible in the name of making a quick buck

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12-14-2010, 12:29 AM
  #147
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If by "for crying out loud", you mean....
- the 16th-largest city in the United States
- a long history of hockey, including (at the time) an ECHL team that had sellout records spanning several seasons despite limited on-ice success
- the home of four Fortune 500 companies, plus being major centers for multiple massive foreign companies
- a city with a total college population of over 100,000
- a centrally located city where the entire population (over 11,000,000) of the state is within a three-hour drive, as well as the populations of southern Detroit, Indianapolis, Fort Wayne, Louisville, Lexington, and all points in between
- an owner (John H. McConnell) who would run the team like a gift for the city instead of cutting corners wherever possible in the name of making a quick buck
Here's how the 3 television markets in Ohio ranked back in 2006, not sure what they are today.

17 Cleveland-Akron (Canton) 1,537,500
32 Columbus, OH 898,030
33 Cincinnati 886,910

Looks like Columbus is a good choice in theory, being able to feed off the other 2 tv markets as well as their own. Just wish they weren't ranked in the bottom 4 for attendance.

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12-14-2010, 12:52 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by CarrePrisme View Post
I live in Quebec City. These people are embarassing us. You have to be a special kind of idiot to not realize that this move is rather classless. Not only that, it's entirely useless. As long as a owner like Wang is willing to lose money, the team will stay where it is. And if he doesn't find someone to sell it to, the league will step in and do everything it can to keep the franchise where it is. These people don't understand the league's rules.

Considering some franchise does move, nothing proves that it will go to Quebec City, which doesn't have a proper arena as of now. I think Bettman already hinted that Winnipeg is next in line. What about Hamilton? Or Kansas City? Or whatever?

Quebec City could not even keep an AHL team. Imagine that. Now the people in this city want an NHL franchise?

These people are delusional. Of course, it helps that they are being brainwashed into this every single day. Like I said, I live in Quebec city. I know first hand about the personality cult there is around this ridiculous mayor and how every media talk about this on a daily basis. I swear, since this mayor has been in office, I haven't seen on single front page that didn't talk about a new arena or the NOrdiques return or some other fantasy, like the Olympics, or a high speed train, or a state-of-the-art tramway, or whatever... And people in Quebec city like to think all of this is happening even though none of these things are not even close to fruition.

Dreaming is one thing. Lunacy is another. The kool aid drinking is scary.
Bingo! This is NY after all. If LI falls through then Queens NY will take over. NY is 10 times more likely than Quebec City, Hamilton, KC or Vegas. Come on, the world revolves around NY not the stix. It's here not small potatoes.

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12-14-2010, 08:02 AM
  #149
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Yeah, AHL is crappy hockey.

Here's another example then...Quebec city claims to be a football city. It doesn't even have a CFL team, which you will agree, is easier to support than an NHL franchise.
Speaking as both a fan of the NHL and a massive life-long fan of the CFL, I can tell you there are two reasons Quebec City does not have a CFL team, and it has got nothing to do with the people living there, or your percieved lack of interest from the city.

1) The Montreal Alouettes own all territorial rights to Quebec. They would have to convince them to sign off the Capitale-Nationale area (and, odds are, a good slice of Gaspe etc..) to put a team there. That is a massive hurdle.

2) Partly because of #1, Quebec City does not have a CFL-ready stadium. The league needs a minimum 25,000 seats and PEPS Stadium right now is at roughly 15,000. Meaning, a potential owner would have to look at both getting a stadium AND an actual team.

The CFL is currently concentrating on Jeff Hunt and Ottawa to get their team going, then it seems like Atlantic Canada is next. Once both those places have teams, I would not be surprised if Quebec City step up in 6-7 years time. The city IS a football town, they have sell-out crowds for the Laval Rouge-et-Or for a solid 5-10 years now, and the stadium hosts the Vanier Cup.

Pessimism can also hinder logic and reason, ya know

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12-14-2010, 08:27 AM
  #150
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The bottom line is you have to be optimistic about what your city can accomplish. I've noticed by reading comments on newspaper articles that, where what seems like a great deal of people, in both Winnipeg and Quebec City don't feel their city is capable of hosting an NHL franchise.
Yep. There are a lot of pessimistic Winnipeggers, not just about the return of the NHL, but about getting anything done. I absolutely love living here and wouldn't want to move, but one of the few things I dislike about this city is how often people complain about everything.

Thankfully, not everyone in Winnipeg is like that, which is why we have the potential of seeing the NHL return.

I think Quebec City should get another NHL team. I fully support the Nordiques Nation fans. All they're doing is showing that they're passionate about hockey. They're telling the NHL that there's a strong desire for a team in QC ...and considering the NHL is facing a number of struggling franchises, I think this is a good time to make that desire known.

The league already has Winnipeg waiting patiently in line for the next team to become available, and now it has Quebec City as well. QC will get an arena built, sooner rather than later, and they will be prime candidates for a franchise, again, should one become available. I know a lot of people are trying to argue in favour of cities like Houston or Kansas or wherever ahead of Winnipeg/Quebec, but what, if anything, have those cities done to prove their interest?

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