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Jere Lehtinen - hall or not?

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12-11-2010, 05:03 AM
  #1
Merya
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Jere Lehtinen - hall or not?

Wondering about opinions of the knowledgable section whether or not Jere Lehtinen will get to the HHOF, and should he?

3 selkes, 1 cup, major contributor to some impressive showings in team Finland in best vs best games. Well liked silent player. Played whole NHL career in the Stars. Will get his number raised in the drafters.

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12-11-2010, 05:17 AM
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VanIslander
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He's got his three Selkes. Let's leave it at that. He's sufficiently honoured and will forever be remembered accordingly.

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12-11-2010, 08:16 AM
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Hardyvan123
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He's got his three Selkes. Let's leave it at that. He's sufficiently honoured and will forever be remembered accordingly.
Fully agreed, a very good dependable player but a step or two short of the Hall IMO.

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12-11-2010, 08:31 AM
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Great player, any championship-calibre team would want to have him, but clearly not.

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12-11-2010, 08:41 AM
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DaveG
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If a guy like Gilmour isn't in yet and a guy like Brind'Amour is questionable to get in, I just can't see Lehtinen making the cut. Excellent player, don't get me wrong. Probably the best two-way forward of the dead puck era. But it's unlikely that someone gets in without the stats, and he just doesn't have the numbers that a lot of other strong defensive forwards had that are either on the outside looking in or are expected to be on the outside looking in.


Last edited by DaveG: 12-11-2010 at 09:14 AM.
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12-11-2010, 08:57 AM
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reckoning
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Maybe a step below the Hall, but a very underrated, consistent, sound all-round player who deserves to be rated higher than he is.

I hope he does get a night in his honour at a Dallas home game next season.

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12-11-2010, 09:36 AM
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He has rightfully earned a place in the Hall of Very Good, but the Hall of Fame is for all-time greats and I would never think of using those words to describe Jere Lehtinen.

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12-11-2010, 09:50 AM
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As long as Carbo, Provost and Ramsey aren't in, Lehtinen shouldn't be considered. They were a step above Lehtinen IMO.


Last edited by Psycho Papa Joe: 12-12-2010 at 04:58 AM.
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Old
12-11-2010, 09:52 AM
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SidGenoMario
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I like the double standards in hockey:

-A purely offensive player is ridiculed throughout his entire career for ignoring an important part of the game
-A purely defensive player is rewarded for the areas he does contribute to
-A purely offensive player at the end of his career is given entry to the hall for bringing people out of their seats
-A purely defensive player at the end of his career is given the "Not enough offense" treatment

..this might not directly apply fully to Lehtinen, but yeah.

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Old
12-11-2010, 12:09 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SidGenoMario View Post
I like the double standards in hockey:

-A purely offensive player is ridiculed throughout his entire career for ignoring an important part of the game
-A purely defensive player is rewarded for the areas he does contribute to
-A purely offensive player at the end of his career is given entry to the hall for bringing people out of their seats
-A purely defensive player at the end of his career is given the "Not enough offense" treatment

..this might not directly apply fully to Lehtinen, but yeah.
A purely defensive defenseman like Rod Langway can get into the Hall though if he's good enough. Scott Stevens would have probably been on the first ballot even if you completely ignore his career before NJ.

I think there is some feeling with forwards that "if he had more talent, he would have scored more, but he didn't, so he became a valuable defensive player." Unless your name is Bob Gainey.

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12-11-2010, 01:23 PM
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Great player, any championship-calibre team would want to have him, but clearly not.
This.

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Old
12-11-2010, 02:20 PM
  #12
vadim sharifijanov
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i don't see how he has any more of a case than, say, john madden.

among underrated finnish role players, i'd much sooner back esa tikkanen.

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12-11-2010, 02:30 PM
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IMO Selke is the most undervalued trophy there is. Although the whole defensive part of the game seems pretty underaprecciated.

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12-11-2010, 02:34 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
i don't see how he has any more of a case than, say, john madden.

among underrated finnish role players, i'd much sooner back esa tikkanen.
Lehtinen was better offensively than John Madden - which is the biggest reason he has more Selkes than Madden. But I do think it makes him the better all-round player, just like Tikkanen's offense makes him better than Lehtinen overall.

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12-11-2010, 02:48 PM
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vadim sharifijanov
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to me, lehtinen and madden are close. lehtinen has the higher offense, but madden has the deeper playoff resume and, to my eyes, was better in '03 than lehtinen was in '99 even though both shouldered uncharacteristic offensive loads and both were fantastic.

but with lehtinen i guess you also have the what-if factor: if he was healthy in '00, do the stars repeat and does madden have one less cup?

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12-11-2010, 06:02 PM
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I wouldnt cry if they let more defensive forwards get in. Including Lehtinen and some of the guys mentioned in this thread.

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12-12-2010, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
to me, lehtinen and madden are close. lehtinen has the higher offense, but madden has the deeper playoff resume and, to my eyes, was better in '03 than lehtinen was in '99 even though both shouldered uncharacteristic offensive loads and both were fantastic.

but with lehtinen i guess you also have the what-if factor: if he was healthy in '00, do the stars repeat and does madden have one less cup?
Madden 134gp 21g 22a average TOI: 16:41
Lehtinen 108gp 27g 22a average TOI: 21:09

Cups are a team accomplishment. When the Hawks won Madden played only 11:35 per game.

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12-12-2010, 06:00 AM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by jepjepjoo View Post
Madden 134gp 21g 22a average TOI: 16:41
Lehtinen 108gp 27g 22a average TOI: 21:09

Cups are a team accomplishment. When the Hawks won Madden played only 11:35 per game.
It's definitely a point in favor of Lehtinen that he played on the top line, while Madden didn't.

But you can't compare ice times like that. No forward of the era played more than 20 minutes per game for NJ, and Ken Hitchcock was known for playing his top line in Dallas as much as possible.

When John Madden won his 2nd Cup in 2003, he led all NJ fowards in ice time by a wide margin with 19:38. 2nd place was Jamie Langenbrunner with 17:34.

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12-12-2010, 06:24 AM
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lehtinen's definitely better than madden, it's not a colossal leap but it's pretty clear to me, lehtinen was a very important cog on those finnish teams that won 3 or 4 olympic medals, madden was never on any canadian olympic teams, that was peca and draper

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12-12-2010, 07:12 AM
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All I know is Dallas is going to hang his number.

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12-12-2010, 08:07 AM
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jkrx
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lehtinen's definitely better than madden, it's not a colossal leap but it's pretty clear to me, lehtinen was a very important cog on those finnish teams that won 3 or 4 olympic medals, madden was never on any canadian olympic teams, that was peca and draper
Plus the Huey, Dewey, Louie line which were an instrumental part of the team that took the WC gold in '95.

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12-12-2010, 08:27 AM
  #22
Felonious Python
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Jere is one of my favorite players ever, but I don't see him making the HHOF.

There are plenty of names who probably should be in the hall first. Oates, Bure, Lindros, Gilmour, etc.

He's a sure fire first nomination inductee into the Cliff Ronning wing of the Hall of Very Good though.

There's also comparisons to John Madden. Deserved, but Madden's not going to make it in the hall. He never reached the performance peaks that Lehtinen did, and he also got started in the NHL pretty late (he didn't break into the league full time until he was 26).

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12-12-2010, 09:02 AM
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tony d
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Good player, one of the better defensive forwards of the past decade but he will not make it into the Hall of Fame.

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12-12-2010, 10:26 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
A purely defensive defenseman like Rod Langway can get into the Hall though if he's good enough. Scott Stevens would have probably been on the first ballot even if you completely ignore his career before NJ.

I think there is some feeling with forwards that "if he had more talent, he would have scored more, but he didn't, so he became a valuable defensive player." Unless your name is Bob Gainey.
Are you suggesting that Gainey had the talent to be an offensive star?

Quite a few of other top defensive players had more pure talent that Gainey did IMO. His contemporary Craig Ramsay comes to mind.

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12-12-2010, 10:46 AM
  #25
vadim sharifijanov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jepjepjoo View Post
Madden 134gp 21g 22a average TOI: 16:41
Lehtinen 108gp 27g 22a average TOI: 21:09

Cups are a team accomplishment. When the Hawks won Madden played only 11:35 per game.
my thinking was that madden played on two NJ cup winners and a finalist. lehtinen played on one cup winner and was injured when his team made the finals another time. the hawks cup where he was on the fourth line doesn't really factor here.

team accomplishments, yes. but madden was a very important contributor, especially in '03 when he was the third most important player on that devils team behind niedermayer and brodeur.

re: ice time, see TDDM's post above.

i do agree that international resumes are really lopsided, though.

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