Pretty fair piece. I disagree with the assertion that we need a "true" enforcer...or at least with his illustration of this need; if you've been watching hockey you know Ott does that stuff regardless of who is on the ice, just as Avery and Burrows and etc etc. do.
That particular game you witnessed a lack of camaraderie.
Do agree with his take on Mikko. His play has been largely uninspired and uninspiring, with non of the intensity that was the main reason (IMO) they made him captain.
I'm not Josh, I just promote the articles but I also have an opinion on this regardless.
Havlat and Koivu's inability to co-exist really creates a situation where one needs to carry the offense while the other is secondary. Right now Havlat is primary, making Koivu secondary. Unfortunately, the team is somewhat built around Koivu...
as much as I agree (and lament) that Havlat has been playing harder than Koivu lately I'm not about to count on that trend continuing. Too much history there of completely disappearing. We need this team to have both players playing full speed most of the games but it seems like we can only get one or the other (if we're lucky).
Neither, sadly, is a player who is a line unto themselves.
I was thinking about this early and couldn't remember. I hope someone can help me out.
Over Koivu's career, who have his line-mates been? I know obviously Miettinen and Brunette. But who was it before those two?
My point being, dependent on who was on his line before AM/AB, who the hell can play with Koivu? Like I said, I don't remember, but was Rolston or Demitra on Koivu's line? It seems like every bigger name player we have "can't" play with Koivu. It's really starting to piss me off. Gabby couldn't, Havlat can't, Latendresse can't. Who the hell can? Why pay a guy $7 million a year who can't play a star should, god forbid, we somehow acquire one? Who even acquire a star in that case? He won't be able to play with Koivu.
Like I said, there's a strong chance I'm an idiot for this because I don't remember who he was playing with before AM/AB. Someone refresh my memory.
Edit: my whole point to that being, it's true we don't have a true leader. Koivu is a strong character guy, but he sure isn't leading anyone.
I was thinking about this early and couldn't remember. I hope someone can help me out.
Over Koivu's career, who have his line-mates been? I know obviously Miettinen and Brunette. But who was it before those two?
My point being, dependent on who was on his line before AM/AB, who the hell can play with Koivu? Like I said, I don't remember, but was Rolston or Demitra on Koivu's line? It seems like every bigger name player we have "can't" play with Koivu. It's really starting to piss me off. Gabby couldn't, Havlat can't, Latendresse can't. Who the hell can? Why pay a guy $7 million a year who can't play a star should, god forbid, we somehow acquire one? Who even acquire a star in that case? He won't be able to play with Koivu.
Like I said, there's a strong chance I'm an idiot for this because I don't remember who he was playing with before AM/AB. Someone refresh my memory.
Who said Latendresse couldn't? He plays with Havlat because he plays well with Havlat.
And I don't remember who Koivu used to play with either.
I was thinking about this early and couldn't remember. I hope someone can help me out.
Over Koivu's career, who have his line-mates been? I know obviously Miettinen and Brunette. But who was it before those two?
My point being, dependent on who was on his line before AM/AB, who the hell can play with Koivu? Like I said, I don't remember, but was Rolston or Demitra on Koivu's line? It seems like every bigger name player we have "can't" play with Koivu. It's really starting to piss me off. Gabby couldn't, Havlat can't, Latendresse can't. Who the hell can? Why pay a guy $7 million a year who can't play a star should, god forbid, we somehow acquire one? Who even acquire a star in that case? He won't be able to play with Koivu.
Like I said, there's a strong chance I'm an idiot for this because I don't remember who he was playing with before AM/AB. Someone refresh my memory.
Edit: my whole point to that being, it's true we don't have a true leader. Koivu is a strong character guy, but he sure isn't leading anyone.
As an aside... Koivu never really got a chance with Gabby.
One of DR's last ditch selling points to Gab,before he was ****canned was that he'd finally get a long-term chance with Koivu.
Can't disagree too much with any of them. I would have disagreed with the lack of an enforcer before the Dallas game. I wouldn't be so hard on Koivu, but all areas need improvement. I'd have too little talent as 1, 2, and 3. The rest can fall behind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by countrygentleman
Over Koivu's career, who have his line-mates been? I know obviously Miettinen and Brunette. But who was it before those two?
I have a hard time remembering too. I think he played with about everybody. In 2007-08 I think he played a lot with Rolston and Bouchard. But I think he saw time with Gaborik, Demitra Parrish, Radio, and others too. Man, it's sad just listing those long-gone names.
I completely forgot about Radio... Man did he suck. 07/08 was my freshman year in college so my memory is a bit hazy. But I think he played with Parrish and Radio for the most part.
Don't mean to be a dick but the grammar ruined it. Call me anal or whatever but it was bad. A few mistakes is OK but that looked like a middle school book report.
I completely forgot about Radio... Man did he suck. 07/08 was my freshman year in college so my memory is a bit hazy. But I think he played with Parrish and Radio for the most part.
#1 - What we are missing is not an enforcer, its team toughness. A guy who is there just to 'scare' one player (scare a player like Ott) who probably is brave enough to keep playing his game anyways, is useless...
#2 - Yes, we are missing youth. But I think Josh Sargent should have made the effort to mention that Flecther did just join the Wild and Granlund is CF's and Flahr's first real attempt at drafting with the Wild.
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as… Mikael Granlund. Who?? Exactly. Granlund is 18yrs old playing professionally in Finland drafted by the Wild last spring. Though he does have plenty of potential nobody is clamoring to get him up to the NHL level as soon as possible.
Disagree completely. He doesn't make the effort in actually describing Granlund, which isn't fair. Granlund is one of Finland's top prospects and actually, Wild fans ARE clamoring to get him up to the NHL level as soon as possible.
#3 - This is just a personal thought for me but I believe leadership is what happens in the locker room,on the benches, and during practice, something as a fan don't have access to and I believe fans don't have any real right to criticize. But thats just me.
#4 - There are times I think fans are unfair to Richards, but I won't be ignorant and say Richards has been perfect. He hasn't. He's a rookie coach that has had made rookie mistakes. Or maybe we're just so used to the perfect coaching for a veteran like Lemaire but yes, Richards has made rookie mistakes.
I don't think it's fair to say that we don't have surefire talent waiting when we only drafted Granlund 6 months ago. Kesler, Statsny and Eberle are all at least a couple years from their respective drafts and have had time to make an impact. Granlund was also drafted at a higher position than any of those three. I do agree that beyond Granlund, we don't have much though.
granlunds skill looks pretty easily translatable to the NHL but the concussion has made me a tad more pessimistic about him as an impact piece to our future. I'm not saying I'm writing him off at all, but a lengthy sit-out at this point in his career can't do anything but delay his development. absolute worst-case scenario the healing/recovery process could go horribly wrong and render him completely unable to play hockey at the same level. This isn't a knock against him at all.
He could have just written "coaching" and have been done with it. I stopped reading when he didn't know who Granlund was. Well, stopped skimming anyway...didn't read the enforcer bit either.
as much as I agree (and lament) that Havlat has been playing harder than Koivu lately I'm not about to count on that trend continuing. Too much history there of completely disappearing.
What exactly is Koivu's history of "completely disappearing"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by countrygentleman
Over Koivu's career, who have his line-mates been? I know obviously Miettinen and Brunette. But who was it before those two?
According to DobberHockey:
2007-08: Radivojevic and Veilleux, with a little time on everyone else's line.
2008-Present: Brunette and Miettinen
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It seems like every bigger name player we have "can't" play with Koivu. It's really starting to piss me off. Gabby couldn't, Havlat can't, Latendresse can't. Who the hell can? Why pay a guy $7 million a year who can't play a star should, god forbid, we somehow acquire one? Who even acquire a star in that case? He won't be able to play with Koivu.
Koivu "can't" play with them, or the coach won't put him with them? Gabby had 10 goals and 18 points in 11 games with Koivu and Brunette in late 2009.
Quote:
Edit: my whole point to that being, it's true we don't have a true leader. Koivu is a strong character guy, but he sure isn't leading anyone.
That is ri-********-diculous. For five years Koivu's been an intense and fiery leader, and all of a sudden he's not a true leader because he slumped for a month?
What exactly is Koivu's history of "completely disappearing"?
According to DobberHockey:
2007-08: Radivojevic and Veilleux, with a little time on everyone else's line.
2008-Present: Brunette and Miettinen
Koivu "can't" play with them, or the coach won't put him with them? Gabby had 10 goals and 18 points in 11 games with Koivu and Brunette in late 2009.
That is ri-********-diculous. For five years Koivu's been an intense and fiery leader, and all of a sudden he's not a true leader because he slumped for a month?
I think Ryn was mentioning Havlat's history of disappearing, not Koivu's.
That's how I read it anyway.
Otherwise... I agree in general. A poorly written article that happened to stumble onto one or two good points and whiffed hard on everything else.
We don't need an enforcer, we need teammates who stick up for each other.
He doesn't know who Granlund is? He's blind/deaf/dumb/all of the above.
Lack of leadership? How can you lead a team when it's looking more and more like there is zero faith in the head coach? You can't step in line behind him AND complain about him at the same time.
Lack of young talent? And he rips on Granlund? Who was the last impact player that DR drafted? Clutterbuck, and he's still a long-shot to ever have a meaningful OFFENSIVE impact. Who before that? Probably Burns? You can't fault the new regime for bad drafting yet...
And we've all beaten the coaching situation to death.
I think the teammates are sticking up for each other just fine. There's no "daddy" on the bench to bail them out. Hell, Brodziak fought the other week. I haven't seen guys taking runs at our players at all.
The Steve Ott thing is overblown. The only reason that was an issue at all was because the Wild made it an issue. They went into the game focused on controlling Ott, not on winning, and they ended up doing neither. "Respond" to him like other teams respond to Clutterbuck, ignore him.
Also, no mention of the obvious thing the Wild lack...health. No Latendresse, Bouchard missing most of the season thus far, Cullen now injured, Kobasew injured for weeks, Zidlicky fighting injury, etc.
yes, i was talking about Havlat's history. I'm fully confident that Koivu will remain the better, more consistent player throughout his career.
I'm not interested at all in using injuries as a reason for anything--almost every team goes through periods of important/lengthy injuries/illness so over the length of a season it doesn't matter as much as how a team adjusts to these issues. If your only real offensive threat is done for, then you're obviously going to have a tougher time of it but we have a team with mostly secondary scorers so you'd think the adjustments wouldn't be so painful.
I see us getting shoved around everywhere. the beginning of the year we were much better in that regard but over this horrible period that's one of the things that stands out most to me. yeah, brodziak fought. do you remember the circumstances? that was about the only time during that period where anyone showed any sort of balls at all.
ott ran over our goalie and no one said **** to him. Clutterbuck snows someone's goalie and there's pretty much always someone in his face. you don't have to take a ****ing penalty to stand up for teammates. Like standing around pretending you didn't see it after some guy walks up on the street and grabs your wifes ass. You look weak. You are weak.
