HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Notices

Time to Honour Bure?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-12-2010, 01:02 AM
  #26
Bubbles
Tank for Tyler2016
 
Bubbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: BC Teams:Nucks,Juve
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,365
vCash: 200
I just think it's a massive conspiracy by Gillis to retire his ex-clients. Next up, Pavol Demitra.

Bubbles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 01:14 AM
  #27
Durr
give me gum gum
 
Durr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Newfoundland
Country: Canada
Posts: 738
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Durr
Yes to Bure being up on the Ring of Honor, but I would be disappointed if he had his number retired.

Durr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 01:39 AM
  #28
Free Torts
Registered User
 
Free Torts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,243
vCash: 883
Send a message via MSN to Free Torts
Would he come for the ceremony?

Free Torts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 03:38 AM
  #29
forty47seven
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 462
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrishriekandgo View Post
drop the crap and put Mogilny's jersey in the rafters now because it will be an embarrassment if they do it AFTER he gets into the HOF.

Lets go Gillis and Co.
Fixed.

(Sort of.)

Put Bure in the ring of honor. Injuries and managerial conflict prevented him from playing enough games to be a franchise player — intangibles notwithstanding. If Bure did get his jersey retired, I doubt we'd hear him refer to Vancouver as "home" in his speech.

forty47seven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 03:42 AM
  #30
Dolemite
The one...the only..
 
Dolemite's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 37,640
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
Ben Kuzma of the Vancouver Province writes an article titled:

With Naslund's number going to the rafters, Bure now on franchise radar for an honour


Even before Markus Naslund was to receive the ultimate honour in having his No. 19 jersey raised to the rafters on Saturday at Rogers Arena, there was growing debate on how the enigmatic Pavel Bure should be honoured. Naslund, Trevor Linden and Stan Smyl — who have had their respective numbers retired — believe Bure deserves to be remembered in some fashion. But does his No. 10 go to the rafters, does he join the Ring of Honour or does he want anything to do with any of this?
http://communities.canada.com/thepro...an-honour.aspx

Mike Gillis:
"He's on our radar. Part of it is the person and it didn't end the way people had hoped. But there are two sides to the story. He's a private person and I don't think it's any deviation from the criteria."

Markus Naslund:
"He's definitely one of the players that when you think of the Canucks, you think of Pavel for all he brought."

Stan Smyl:
"Pavel was a piece of the puzzle of the respect we got as a franchise."

Trevor Linden:
"Pavel was probably the most dynamic player this organization has seen. I'm sure it's on their [management's] plate."

My opinion - Pavel should have his number retired as he was without a doubt the most skilled and dynamic player ever to play for the Canucks. He was one of those rare players that every time he touched the puck he pulled you out of your seat.

Have at it.
Canucks fan who actually saw Bure play:

"No ****ing way. After the way he burned his bridges out of town?!?!?! NO. ****ING. WAY!!"

I was having a discussion with Bruce Arthur of the National Post (he grew up in Vancouver) about this earlier on twitter. I'm not hip to Bure getting his number retired (he is). Especially when there are others that deserve it before him (Hello? Wayne Maki?).

Ring of honor I would be good with but not a number retirement.

It's LONG overdue to make Wayne Maki's #11 unofficial retirement official. After the slap in the face his family got following the Mark Messier fiasco, this is the least the team can do to make up for it.

__________________
http://thenhlhotlist.azvibe.com/
Follow along on Twitter: http://twitter.com/azvibesports

Last edited by Dolemite: 12-12-2010 at 04:02 AM.
Dolemite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 04:02 AM
  #31
Invictus146
Registered User
 
Invictus146's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 415
vCash: 500
Tough question... IMHO Bure was probably the greatest player (skills, at his peak) to don the jersey, but his exit out of town was just messy. Lock for the RoH, but, honestly, if he gets into the Hall I'm not sure we have a choice in all fairness. Can anyone think of a Hall of Famer, identified with a particular team, whose number is not retired?

Didn't realize that Gillis was to blame... Somehow that's ironically hilarious

Invictus146 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 04:02 AM
  #32
Wetcoaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 54,911
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJP View Post
Would he come for the ceremony?
I am certain that Gillis (his former agent) would talk to him first to make sure.

Wetcoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 11:30 AM
  #33
Mr. Canucklehead
Mod Supervisor
Kitimat Canuck
 
Mr. Canucklehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Kitimat, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,499
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Injektilo View Post
He's widely put in the same category as Howe, Gretzky and Orr? Really? Seriously?

His hands and his speed doesn't make up for his laziness and individualism... He was a great player, but not one of the best ever.

And no, I wouldn't retire his jersey number, nor would I have retired Smyl's, Linden's or Naslund's.
Where in the world did I write that?

No, he is not in the same category as Howe, Gretzky and Orr. And I never wrote any such thing.

However, if you have a discussion with most hockey fans about the greatest goal scorers in the history of the game, I would bet money that Bure would appear almost everyone's top 10, at least. He was a terrific talent and is recognized as such, and should be recognized as such by the Canucks IMO.

Mr. Canucklehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 11:35 AM
  #34
Shareefruck
Registered User
 
Shareefruck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,890
vCash: 500
Now that Naslund is in, yes.

If he hadn't been, no.

Shareefruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 12:02 PM
  #35
*Injektilo
Registered User
 
*Injektilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Vancouver
Country: France
Posts: 11,664
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
Where in the world did I write that?
You wrote: "one of the greatest players who ever lived". Either you're backing down from that comment, or your criteria for "greatest players who ever lived" is a hell of a lot looser than mine.

Quote:
However, if you have a discussion with most hockey fans about the greatest goal scorers in the history of the game, I would bet money that Bure would appear almost everyone's top 10, at least.
Maybe, but that's a different argument.

Quote:
He was a terrific talent and is recognized as such, and should be recognized as such by the Canucks IMO.
I'd put him in that ring of honour, but I wouldn't retire his jersey.

*Injektilo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 12:10 PM
  #36
Mr. Canucklehead
Mod Supervisor
Kitimat Canuck
 
Mr. Canucklehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Kitimat, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,499
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Injektilo View Post
You wrote: "one of the greatest players who ever lived". Either you're backing down from that comment, or your criteria for "greatest players who ever lived" is a hell of a lot looser than mine.



Maybe, but that's a different argument.


I'd put him in that ring of honour, but I wouldn't retire his jersey.
So what you're saying is...I never said he was as good as Gretzky, Howe or Orr. Don't put words in my mouth.

He can be one of the greatest players who ever lived without being one of the Top 3, 10, 20, or even 50. How many players have played in the NHL over the history of the game? I would say Bure is in the upper echelon of those players. Even if that make shim only top 100, that is still a remarkable accomplishment and I don't think saying he's one of the greatest players who ever lived is a bad thing. Is he a Gretzky, Howe, Orr, Dionne, Richard, Esposito or more? No. But that's not an affront to him as those guys are all terrific talents, and there's a ton of names I'm not mentioning as well

The top 10 goal scorer thing, fair enough. IMO, he is amongst the top 10 who ever played the game when it comes to goal scoring. That's something.

And I don't necessarilly disagree with the Ring of Honor over retirement; I just think it's important that the Canucks acknowledge, respect and celebrate what he brought to this franchise.

Mr. Canucklehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 12:18 PM
  #37
*Injektilo
Registered User
 
*Injektilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Vancouver
Country: France
Posts: 11,664
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
He can be one of the greatest players who ever lived without being one of the Top 3, 10, 20, or even 50.
Ok, so we agree your criteria of "greatest players who ever lived" is lower than mine, then.

*Injektilo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 12:21 PM
  #38
Mr. Canucklehead
Mod Supervisor
Kitimat Canuck
 
Mr. Canucklehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Kitimat, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,499
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Injektilo View Post
Ok, so we agree your criteria of "greatest players who ever lived" is lower than mine, then.
I would say different. Then I would say it seems fair.

Mr. Canucklehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 12:26 PM
  #39
Rocko604
Registered User
 
Rocko604's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,040
vCash: 500
Ring of Honour definitely. If he gets into the Hall of Fame, retire it then. There's no rule that a number HAS to be retired within a certian number of years.

Rocko604 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 01:11 PM
  #40
Passthedonuts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Oakville, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 546
vCash: 500
Isn't the whole point of jersey retirement to ensure that player is the last player on the team to wear that number?

How many have worn #10 since Pavel?

Passthedonuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 01:16 PM
  #41
the edler
Inimitable
 
the edler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,356
vCash: 500
at least he's in my heart

he's the best vancouver player ever, he was henrik and daniel sedin in one person, or he was daniel times two without the need of henrik

the edler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 02:46 PM
  #42
Lard_Lad
Registered User
 
Lard_Lad's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Kelowna
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,678
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Passthedonuts View Post
Isn't the whole point of jersey retirement to ensure that player is the last player on the team to wear that number?

How many have worn #10 since Pavel?
No idea why you'd think that. I'd guesstimate a good third of the retired numbers in the league were worn by multiple people between the time the honoree left and the number's retirement. On Original 6 teams that were slow to retire numbers, they got recycled 20 or 30 times in some cases. Even many relatively recent retirements are like that...the last guy to wear 29 in Montreal was Gino, not Ken Dryden; Edmonton re-used Kurri, Fuhr, and Anderson's numbers before retiring them.

Lard_Lad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 03:02 PM
  #43
Peter Griffin
Registered User
 
Peter Griffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,699
vCash: 500
The fact that he's only player that has had a significant impact on this franchise to be even remotely considered for the Hockey Hall of Fame leads me to believe he should be honored in at least some way.

Peter Griffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 03:43 PM
  #44
Hal 9000*
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,148
vCash: 500
I have been against the Bure jersey retirement thing since forever, but the more I look into things, the more I find myself entrenched in my opinions. Sure, he was the most entertaining player to ever be a canuck, but he never liked being a canuck - that's obvious, Once he became a star player he wanted to be traded and never let that go - never. He was never happy with his contract, he thought he should be in a place that he could make the marketing money like Fedorov and such.

This team was turned upside down to make the guy happy and he still **** on us. His stats were good - no great, but looking at those years, there were many players who accomplished more. 92-93 had him 13th in scoring and 5th in goals, 93-94 was better, 5th in scoring and 1st in goals. Naslund (the so-called dead puck era) in 01-02 was 2nd in points and 5th in goals and in 02-03 was 2nd in goals and 2nd in points. Again in 03-04 Naslund was 4th in points.

So yeah, Bure was more dynamic - i'll give him that. But when you factor in what Naslund did in his time here stats wise, factor in that he was here for much longer, played with more class, had a team first attitude, was our captain, was a big time community guy then...well, yes I'll support retiring Naslund's #19. Bure - never!

Hal 9000* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 04:02 PM
  #45
Wetcoaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 54,911
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal 9000 View Post
I have been against the Bure jersey retirement thing since forever, but the more I look into things, the more I find myself entrenched in my opinions. Sure, he was the most entertaining player to ever be a canuck, but he never liked being a canuck - that's obvious, Once he became a star player he wanted to be traded and never let that go - never. He was never happy with his contract, he thought he should be in a place that he could make the marketing money like Fedorov and such.

This team was turned upside down to make the guy happy and he still **** on us. His stats were good - no great, but looking at those years, there were many players who accomplished more. 92-93 had him 13th in scoring and 5th in goals, 93-94 was better, 5th in scoring and 1st in goals. Naslund (the so-called dead puck era) in 01-02 was 2nd in points and 5th in goals and in 02-03 was 2nd in goals and 2nd in points. Again in 03-04 Naslund was 4th in points.

So yeah, Bure was more dynamic - i'll give him that. But when you factor in what Naslund did in his time here stats wise, factor in that he was here for much longer, played with more class, had a team first attitude, was our captain, was a big time community guy then...well, yes I'll support retiring Naslund's #19. Bure - never!
I disagree. From the time he decided to leave Russia to join the Canucks, team management created problems.

Wetcoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 04:28 PM
  #46
The Big Foot
Registered User
 
The Big Foot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Bhutan
Posts: 2,596
vCash: 500
First of all, he just wasn't here long enough to be in consideration for jersey retirement. I'd like to see him in the ring of honour for sure cause he was our first superstar and brought the team to respectability in the early nineties. Well him and the rest of the core obviously.

I think there's an argument that Bertuzzi brought just as much to the organization as Bure. He was THE dominant power forward for a span of time, not that long, but hey Bure had a short tenure here too. He was a big fan favorite, and also left under a dark cloud like Bure. After leaving he has had nothing but good things to say about Vancouver (outside of the Moore lawsuit) and came across last night in the Naslund tribute as someone who still feels like he should be a Nuck.

So why Bure and not Bertuzzi? My POV is that both should be in the ring of honour someday.

The Big Foot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 04:38 PM
  #47
Wetcoaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 54,911
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big Foot View Post
First of all, he just wasn't here long enough to be in consideration for jersey retirement. I'd like to see him in the ring of honour for sure cause he was our first superstar and brought the team to respectability in the early nineties. Well him and the rest of the core obviously.

I think there's an argument that Bertuzzi brought just as much to the organization as Bure. He was THE dominant power forward for a span of time, not that long, but hey Bure had a short tenure here too. He was a big fan favorite, and also left under a dark cloud like Bure. After leaving he has had nothing but good things to say about Vancouver (outside of the Moore lawsuit) and came across last night in the Naslund tribute as someone who still feels like he should be a Nuck.

So why Bure and not Bertuzzi? My POV is that both should be in the ring of honour someday.
Because Bertuzzi had maybe 18 months as an elite player? Bure was an elite player from the day he stepped on the ice in a Vancouver sweater until the day he was traded.

Bertuzzi's criminal assault IMHO forever disqualifies him from any honour.

You must have missed the Bertuzzi interview where he savaged Marc Crawford for trying to make him play defence.

And now Bertuzzi is attempting to shift the blame to the team and coach for his criminal behaviour.

Wetcoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 04:40 PM
  #48
Hal 9000*
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,148
vCash: 500
And, while we're at it, why not Ohlund. Ohlund was arguably our best defenseman for over a decade.

Hal 9000* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 05:39 PM
  #49
The Big Foot
Registered User
 
The Big Foot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Bhutan
Posts: 2,596
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
Because Bertuzzi had maybe 18 months as an elite player? Bure was an elite player from the day he stepped on the ice in a Vancouver sweater until the day he was traded.

Bertuzzi's criminal assault IMHO forever disqualifies him from any honour.

You must have missed the Bertuzzi interview where he savaged Marc Crawford for trying to make him play defence.

And now Bertuzzi is attempting to shift the blame to the team and coach for his criminal behaviour.
Well I don't see him as a criminal. A bonehead yes, but I don't think that there should have been legal action. Not going to derail the thread arguing with you over that, obviously you have more of an interest in the legal side of things.

Bertuzzi's 18 months as an elite player are 18 more than Linden and Smyl had combined.

Bertuzzi is taking advice from lawyers who don't want to lose the case - why wouldn't they attempt to shift the blame?

Anyways, just playing devil's advocate, I was a massive Bure fan and not so massive Bertuzzi fan, and I see both as unworthy of a jersey retirement. If Bure got into the ROH I'd be happy, and same with Big Bert.

The Big Foot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 05:43 PM
  #50
Dolemite
The one...the only..
 
Dolemite's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 37,640
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by RWC View Post
Ring of Honour definitely. If he gets into the Hall of Fame, retire it then. There's no rule that a number HAS to be retired within a certian number of years.
If Bure gets into the Hall of Fame it would further cement the fact of the low standards for entrance it has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
And I don't necessarilly disagree with the Ring of Honor over retirement; I just think it's important that the Canucks acknowledge, respect and celebrate what he brought to this franchise.
I'm totally cool with this just not a number retirement.

Dolemite is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:56 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.