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Old
12-16-2010, 01:09 PM
  #51
joshjull
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
If that contract is a center, no, it doesn't.
If its an underachieving center, another Connolly if you will, then it serves no purpose. Because thats the type of center likely to be available in a trade like this.


Posters are deluding themselves if they think we can trade Pommer and solve our center issue at the same time. Forget that the Sabres have no intention of trading him for a moment.

Pommer has a NMC/modified no trade clause where he provides a list of 8 teams he won't go to. Nevermind the fact that it would be incredibly difficult to find a team in the first place that has a center making around the same amount AND that team wanted to trade him. Now you're taking 8 teams out of the mix.

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12-16-2010, 01:50 PM
  #52
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Personally, a mid-January internal deadline (my line in the sand, err ice being after the January 15th game against the Isles) might serve them. If they're not within a few points of or actually in a playoff spot at that point... sell. Sell everyone for everything not nailed down, except Montador. Extend him. Shop guys who aren't pending UFA's -- see if anyone has interest in Butler, Gerbe, Morrissonn, Pominville, or Hecht. Shop them and see if someone is willing to bite -- but start the sale early.

My fear is that with the dearth of available UFA centers this summer, Regier will hedge his bets on Connolly once again, and extend him another two years. And that he'll make a piddle-**** move for one depth guy while ignoring Montador until it's far too late to get him signed. They'll miss out by a few points, blame Miller's or Pominville's injuries and point to their division win as a sign of what this team REALLY is... ignoring that injury happens to everyone and that division winner was freakishly healthy until the very end, and we'll see no real changes. Oh, and they'll draft 11-13, which is typically not landing anyone of impact/1st line/1st pairing quality.
What a depressing post, but so true







...

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12-16-2010, 02:55 PM
  #53
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What a depressing post, but so true







...
Someone pointed out that they're 10-5-2 in their last 17. I would look at 13 games out at as good a pace as being a benchmark -- something like 18 of 26 points in that span, then assess their position. In playoff position, ride it out. Out by more than 2 points or with more than two teams to climb over in those points... put the word out that you are willing to sell.

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Old
12-16-2010, 05:29 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Someone pointed out that they're 10-5-2 in their last 17. I would look at 13 games out at as good a pace as being a benchmark -- something like 18 of 26 points in that span, then assess their position. In playoff position, ride it out. Out by more than 2 points or with more than two teams to climb over in those points... put the word out that you are willing to sell.
I'm curious how many of those games Connolly played in.

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12-16-2010, 08:34 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
If its an underachieving center, another Connolly if you will, then it serves no purpose. Because thats the type of center likely to be available in a trade like this.


Posters are deluding themselves if they think we can trade Pommer and solve our center issue at the same time. Forget that the Sabres have no intention of trading him for a moment.

Pommer has a NMC/modified no trade clause where he provides a list of 8 teams he won't go to. Nevermind the fact that it would be incredibly difficult to find a team in the first place that has a center making around the same amount AND that team wanted to trade him. Now you're taking 8 teams out of the mix.
You're arguing against things I never said here. I don't think that you can trade an overpaid winger and solve a problem. I do think that a change of scenery deal involving a center would be better than straight dumping his contract, which, by the way, is actually less likely than a player-for-player deal.

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12-16-2010, 08:38 PM
  #56
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I would consider us sellers buttttt since we have Darcy "Dumbass" Regier as GM I wouldn't get your hopes up of having anyone moved

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Old
12-16-2010, 11:25 PM
  #57
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Rangers rally from a 3-1 deficit to clip Phoenix in a shootout, 4-3. Atlanta is involved in another three-point game, this time losing to Carolina, who also moved ahead of us. If this keeps up...

Sell baby, sell. I want four picks in the top-60! And then Regier can re-sign Monty on July 1.

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Old
12-17-2010, 12:02 AM
  #58
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Sell baby, sell. I want four picks in the top-60! And then Regier can re-sign Monty on July 1.


And if one of those picks is in the top 5-7....

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12-17-2010, 09:36 AM
  #59
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We ***** that the team doesn't treat players right and some theorize that's why players won't come here. Now posters are suggesting that we trade Monty for whatever we can get for him. Then resign him in the summer?

Pennywise and pound foolish.

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12-17-2010, 09:40 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
You're arguing against things I never said here. I don't think that you can trade an overpaid winger and solve a problem. I do think that a change of scenery deal involving a center would be better than straight dumping his contract, which, by the way, is actually less likely than a player-for-player deal.
What am I arguing that you didn't hint at? If you're talking about trading Pommer in a change of scenery trade for a center. Then it sure sounds like your trying to fix things at center by trading Pommer.

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12-17-2010, 09:41 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
We ***** that the team doesn't treat players right and some theorize that's why players won't come here. Now posters are suggesting that we trade Monty for whatever we can get for him. Then resign him in the summer?

Pennywise and pound foolish.
I'm not suggesting they just dump him, but if management would talk to him ahead of time and see if he'd be interested in a playoff run, then re-signing, I'd try to move him. If he just wants to stay and re-up, then work on that instead.

Of course, I'd be a much more open manager in these situations than most, I think.

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12-17-2010, 09:42 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
We ***** that the team doesn't treat players right and some theorize that's why players won't come here. Now posters are suggesting that we trade Monty for whatever we can get for him. Then resign him in the summer?

Pennywise and pound foolish.
At this point, having him and Leopold as a second pairing for a few years seems pretty appealling -- he may look frantic out but having a righty who brings what he does and eats ES minutes effectively ought to be retained.

That said... without a direction change from above, seeing them again wait too long to negotiate and price themselves out of the running either with term or value on an offer is a fear with losing him July 1st. It's not like they're swimming in righthanders who are pushing for time in the show -- this past draft class is not going to step into his minutes next year or even the year after. I'd rather they retain him. And that would mean starting negotiations NOW. Not in June. Not in May. NOW.

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12-17-2010, 09:50 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
At this point, having him and Leopold as a second pairing for a few years seems pretty appealling -- he may look frantic out but having a righty who brings what he does and eats ES minutes effectively ought to be retained.

That said... without a direction change from above, seeing them again wait too long to negotiate and price themselves out of the running either with term or value on an offer is a fear with losing him July 1st. It's not like they're swimming in righthanders who are pushing for time in the show -- this past draft class is not going to step into his minutes next year or even the year after. I'd rather they retain him. And that would mean starting negotiations NOW. Not in June. Not in May. NOW.
That's kind of what I was thinking - Monty looks like a mess out there sometimes, like things are about to go south any second, but the results really do speak for themselves. With Myers and Sekera tying up the first pair, Monty is a lock for the 2nd pairing at this point.

I see absolutely no harm in trying to get him signed to 2 or 3 year deal for reasonable money right now. If you can't agree on terms - tell him that you'll be willing to continue negotiations July 1, but that in the interests of the team you may have to move him at the deadline.

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12-17-2010, 12:28 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
We ***** that the team doesn't treat players right and some theorize that's why players won't come here. Now posters are suggesting that we trade Monty for whatever we can get for him. Then resign him in the summer?

Pennywise and pound foolish.
No, posters are suggesting that if we're out of the playoff race, then we should use our expiring assets to acquire other assets. I don't think trading Montador for a 2nd--which is far from your "whatever we can get for him" statement meant to imply we'd be moving him for pennies on the dollar--and possibly more, then going after him on July 1 is going to make people shake their heads at Buffalo.

A vast majority of the impending UFA's dealt at the trade deadline last season made it to July 1 without a contract. He'd be available for Buffalo, and Buffalo would have the money for him. And he obviously likes Buffalo, and we know he likes the guys and would likely be willing to return. I don't see what's so farfetched about it.

If Chicago dangles Calgary's 2nd rounder, I hop on that and don't look back. Then I pursue Monty on July 1. It's a calculated risk, but one I see worth taking.

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Old
12-17-2010, 12:52 PM
  #65
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The more I look around the league, the less I mind selling and blowing up this doomed-for-mediocrity core.

Hell, I had more fun watching Edmonton last night with Paajarvi, Hall, Omark, Eberle, O'Marra, etc... than I had most games with Buffalo this season...

... and I don't even particularly like Edmonton.
But stick Larsson in there, and in 2-4 years time, with smart cap management, that Oilers team could be up there with the Pens, Caps, Chicago, Detroit.

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Old
12-17-2010, 01:02 PM
  #66
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It also wouldn't hurt to find out if Montador is interested in signing an extension. Some clarity there could point them to whether they could or should look to put him on the block if they're out of it.

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Old
12-17-2010, 05:04 PM
  #67
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With the rise of Couture in San Jose, Dacry should at least inquire about Pavelski. Perhaps a package centered around Sekera + Adam with Connolly thrown in is a good place to start?

I'm just sayin', Pavelski is exactly what this team needs.

What would you give up?

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Old
12-17-2010, 05:12 PM
  #68
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With the rise of Couture in San Jose, Dacry should at least inquire about Pavelski. Perhaps a package centered around Sekera + Adam with Connolly thrown in is a good place to start?

I'm just sayin', Pavelski is exactly what this team needs.

What would you give up?
I really wouldn't trade Sekera unless the return was amazing. He and Myers could potentially be this team's first pairing for the next 5-7 years, and I don't want to strip Myers of yet another partner he's become comfortable with.

I would certainly be willing to do Adam+something pretty valuable. Pavelski would look great here.

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12-17-2010, 11:32 PM
  #69
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I really wouldn't trade Sekera unless the return was amazing. He and Myers could potentially be this team's first pairing for the next 5-7 years, and I don't want to strip Myers of yet another partner he's become comfortable with.

I would certainly be willing to do Adam+something pretty valuable. Pavelski would look great here.
Excellent post. I agree.

Sekera, minus some bumps, has been one of out best defensemen all year. I'd sooner trade Montador.

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12-17-2010, 11:57 PM
  #70
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For a frame of reference, six of the eight teams sitting in the EC playoffs on December 18, 2009 made the playoffs in 2009-10. Montreal was four points out on that date and made it as the #8 seed. Philly was five points out and made it as the #7 seed by winning a shootout in Game 82. The Sabres are six points behind the #8 seed, who happens to have two games in hand on Buffalo. The #7 seed is eight points clear of Buffalo with one game in hand on the Sabres. Buffalo is nine back of Atlanta and the Sabres have a game in hand.

In 2008-09, all eight teams that made the playoffs were in a playoff position on December 18, 2008.

In other words, we're ****ed. Another loss tomorrow night and they should start picking up the phones to see if teams will give a little more to get Buffalo's expiring assets a bit earlier than the deadlines. I'm not saying they should make a trade around Christmas, but they could make a move in early-January if the price is right.

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Old
12-18-2010, 01:48 AM
  #71
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Available:
Stafford (he may have good value)
Connolly
Hecht
Pominville
Grier
Gaustad
Niedermayer
Gerbe
Rivet
Morrisonn
Butler
Lalime

Keep:
Roy
Vanek
Kaleta
McCormick
Ennis
Myers
Sekera
Weber
Leopold
Montador
Miller

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Old
12-18-2010, 01:52 AM
  #72
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I just checked Leopold's game log, and he has 0 points and is a -9 in the last 4 games. 1 point in his last 7 games. Looks like he's seriously cooling off (to say the least). Also, Montador is a -7 in the last 4 games, and is pointless in his last 11 games. Looks like all that talk about how great of a defensive pairing they are ended up jinxing them big time.

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Old
12-18-2010, 02:30 AM
  #73
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Sell Mortimer...Sell!

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Old
12-18-2010, 03:03 AM
  #74
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Available:
Stafford (he may have good value)
Connolly
Hecht
Pominville
Grier
Gaustad
Niedermayer
Gerbe
Rivet
Morrisonn
Butler
Lalime

Keep:
Roy
Vanek
Kaleta
McCormick
Ennis
Myers
Sekera
Weber
Leopold
Montador
Miller

I really believe that about half the guys in the keep category could be traded as well. I know that this team has certain pieces to win a cup, but I really believe that it needs to blown up in order to put together the right group in order to win for not only a year, but years...

Under the "available" category i would consider Hecht, Pominville, Rivet and Lalime pretty much untradable. I mean who really wants any of these guys? Pominville is overpaid, as is Hecht who is also older. Rivet and Lalime probably can't even make the NHL rosters of 50% of the teams. Stafford has upside, and therefore I say wait till he's an RFA this off-season, tender him, and see what kind of offer he gets and whether its worth it to match any offer he gets or let him go and maybe get some compensation. Personally I like Gaustad, I know he's having an off year, but he's good as a 3rd-4th line face-off/defensive forward/banger type. Connolly, Morrisonn and Butler might be able to be moved at the deadline, but I don't think any will bring much return, but it's better than nothing and draft picks are key in this league. Connolly will likely bring the best return of that group because of two things. He's a top-six playmaking center (despite my own protests to this view, the guy can skate with the puck and pass well), and second, his expiring contract, he'd basically be on a tryout for whoever traded for him... and hey on second thought, if the Rangers can trade Scott Gomez and his $7.5M multiyear contract, why can't Pominville moved?

As for the "keepers" I like Vanek, but if he can be moved to get a more integral piece, than do it, but really I like his heart, and think he plays to win but gets too frustrated and goes into slumps because he "grips the stick too tight". I feel the same way about Roy, he's playing well so far this year, but he still has lapses in the d-zone, and really, is this going to build and he will continue to grow, or will he be back to his old self by next season? Kaleta and McCormick imo are keepers because they're cheap and do things that are necessary for a hockey team and do their jobs fairly well. Leopold could fetch something, but he's having one of his best years as a pro and I believe the 3yr. deal and promise of some security have relaxed his game a bit. Montador is a difficult one... he's playing well, so he has value. And... as a previous poster stated/asked... will he be re-signed with all the players they have signed/in the minors? Weber and Sekera I believe have a place on this team. Weber as a bottom pairing defensive defensemen. He is only 23 (as of Dec. 16) and while he has defensive lapses, Ruff is a good coach and he's a hard enough worker to continue to learn and improve his game... I see him becoming a poor man's Jay McKee... Sekera now has a place making Myers comfortable, but I really don't see him as a top pair guy. Top four? maybe... but only if his game keeps improving.

As for guys not on the list...
Mancari- Keep him, he's a call up type guy who I feel should be on the big squad on a fourth line with McCormick and Kaleta.
Adam- I believe that this guy has the ability to become a top six forward, buy his skill set is not totally there. He really has to put forth 110% 100% of the time. As my brother likes to say... He can't just grab the bulls by the horns, he's gotta grab the bull by the horns and rip his "frankin" head off!
Gragniani- Trade him, he's a tweener who will end up as a call up guy.
Brennan-Keep him unless he's part of a deal to land an impact player (roster player or draft pick)
Enroth- I really believe this kid is going to be a good goalie. Keep him, develop him, he's gonna be a gamer.

Now to my two untouchables... Myers and Ennis. Myers has shown last year that he has the ability to make a team better on his own. This season he has struggled early with those expectations, but is starting to find his game again... He will be a star... he will win a Norris Trophy, he's a skinnier version of Chara with a weaker shot but better passing ability. If he adds more "edge" to his game... super duper uber scary. Although this will be much much easier if the organization can find him a partner that is a true top line defensemen, because Sekera is not that. As for Ennis, he's on pace with a strong second half to finish at about 20-20-40. This is his rookie year, so those numbers should improve as he gets older and improves his game... but I believe most important to his development will be that next year Connolly should... SHOULD be gone. That will allow Ennis to move to his more natural center position where with the puck on his stick more of the time he will be able to create plays much more for himself and his teammates.

Lastly... Miller-
I know I will get a LOT of flack for this, but... IF...IF... Enroth develops, and not this year but maybe in two years or so and maybe Miller gets injured for an extended period and Enroth leads them well, maybe Miller can be moved. I really do not see the point of a $6M goalie if the team around him is not that great. I believe getting a solid goalie for half the money and surrounding them with a better cast is a smarter idea.

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12-18-2010, 12:23 PM
  #75
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Available:
Stafford (he may have good value)
Connolly
Hecht
Pominville
Grier
Gaustad
Niedermayer
Gerbe
Rivet
Morrisonn
Butler
Lalime

Keep:
Roy
Vanek
Kaleta
McCormick
Ennis
Myers
Sekera
Weber
Leopold
Montador
Miller
My question is who do we build around?

Do we have a shot this year, or next? The way this team is built right now we will never win. They just don't have a top tier leader, a solid defense, nor the grit to win in the playoffs. Just the fact.

Our Rochester core is weak. Gausted, Vanek, Pomms, Roy, Stafford and plus Hecht and Connolly; they just don't have "it."

Individually:

Gausted: He is not an awful player. He has some grit, some energy, defense ability, etc. BUT what he is, is a 4th liner on a good team. He should be making 1-1.5mil...very overpaid.

Vanek: I still feel it the coach's fault here for his stiffled play. I do not see the game plan being planned for him, nor have I seen a player brought in to compliment him. Was a rising star and the team stiffled his offensive creativity and what he was good at. How can this guy not have a big body banger to throw him the puck in front of the net???? We all know that he squeezes the stick in this system. 7mil hit sucks.

Roy: I have no problem with Roy. He's small so I don't think he's ever going to be a shut down center, nor a top defensive player. With that said, I think he is the perfect #2 center, or #1 offensive center. No issues with that, especially given his salary and age. He puts up points...consistent. Give me a Drury type center (from his Sabres days) and that 1-2 center punch makes us a complete team.

Pomms: After yesterday's game...just awful.

Stafford: He's been our whipping boy for years....BUT he's had a good year when playing. Not a top line winger but good for line 2 or 3. Just keep him in the 2-3mil range for the next 2 years and see how he goes. Trade bait though.

Hecht: We never looked for him to be an offensive guy BUT his defensive game has not been where it once was. He's a 1.5-2.5mil player, no where near a 3.5mil player.

Connolly: He needs to be on a team that is run and gun. Maybe in a league like the KHL, or Swedish Elite League where there is no hitting and more offensive bc this boy is a puss. He shy's away from any type of hitting, won't go into the corners and his defensive game is just about no existent. Trade him right now.

The only way we start competing and contend is to blow up this core. A couple of these guys need to go, preferable for someone with alittle bit of heart and size.

Because I do not see us competing in the next year or two, I'd deal Miller. I know it goes against logic but deal him know while he's at his prime. I still believe a deal to Pittsburgh for Fluery and Staal based around Miller and ANYTHING they want to get Staal. Get's us 5 years younger in goal and gives us Roy and Staal as our 1-2 punch. I know it's a pipe dream but Miller makes them almost unbeatable. I'd be willing to give just about anything to get that deal....Miller, 1st, ++.

Connolly for picks or prospects.

Gerbe needs to be on the block too. Unless we do a Miller, 1st & Ennis to Pitts for Staal & Fluery....now that might work. Winger for Crosby and upgrade in goal.

I'd also trade Kaleta. Yes, I like what he brings to the team but his game is a short lived career and he is getting to the point of a$$whole player.

If I was Regier, I'd be listening to offers for anyone, except Myers. He's the only one on this team who is untouchable. Adam, Ennis & Sekera could only be had for an extreme deal. Neids, Grier, and Rivet can be had for anything younger, picks or prospects. They are doing us no good but on a team like Washington, SJ, a contender, they could serve a purpose.

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