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Kings vs. Wild - 12/11/10 - POSTGAME THOUGHTS & TIDBITS

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Old
12-12-2010, 01:57 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
Somebody needs to tell the PP you never go full ******. Doughty just isn't the same player this year. I believe it's a result of a bad attitude, a player who has bought into his own hype who now thinks he can just hit the ice and be great. That's not how it works in pro hockey. There are guys on the other team who will outwork you because they have to in order to survive and avoid being a used car salesman in Manitoba. Havlat just blew right past Drew last night, dude is making bad mental errors and is being exposed more and more each game. The league is paying attention and attacking Drew now waiting for him to make a mistake. He needs to get back to the basics.
The thing that bothers me is the Kings have spoon fed him eveything. They have given him the best minutes, the best partner, practically every minute on the PP and he's pissed it all away. He has not poduced at all. He is terrible on the PP, very average this year 5 on 5 and he is not producing at all. That doesn't even take into consideration all the errors he's made due to lack of complete effort or simply thinking he's good enough to do what he wants.

If he's not producing point wise, making mistakes, and displaying a rediculous attitude on the ice then he needs to earn what he gets. Terry Murray peaching accountability yet he continues to make exceptions.

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12-12-2010, 02:07 PM
  #102
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...As for the Doughty penalty in OT, it was a young player mistake. Doughty just got caught in an okie-doke. I thought it was pretty weak to see that call in OT. I've always been led to believe that a penalty in OT has to be something pretty blatant. I've seen those situations get let go without a call in the past, and it should have been let go last night.



.
That was blatantly obvious. He was a lifetime late and really had no business making a hipcheck at that situation anyways. I don't even think a defenseman should be at that spot on the ice when there are not any forwards back. I've always loved young defenseman and he and Jack are my favorite players but he's making it difficult to defend.

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12-12-2010, 02:08 PM
  #103
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If Doughty continues to play as he did last night, the coaching staff seriously has to consider benching him to get him to snap out of it and quit playing like a jackass. It isn't so much his lack of production that is bothersome, but his effort and dumbass penalties that he's been taking since the preseason.

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12-12-2010, 02:13 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
As for the Doughty penalty in OT, it was a young player mistake. Doughty just got caught in an okie-doke. I thought it was pretty weak to see that call in OT. I've always been led to believe that a penalty in OT has to be something pretty blatant. I've seen those situations get let go without a call in the past, and it should have been let go last night.
But that's just it, that was completely blatant. It wasn't a borderline call, that's as blatant an interference penalty as they come. We've had some close interference calls this year, but that was not one of them.

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12-12-2010, 02:18 PM
  #105
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The thing that bothers me is the Kings have spoon fed him eveything. They have given him the best minutes, the best partner, practically every minute on the PP and he's pissed it all away. He has not poduced at all. He is terrible on the PP, very average this year 5 on 5 and he is not producing at all. That doesn't even take into consideration all the errors he's made due to lack of complete effort or simply thinking he's good enough to do what he wants.

If he's not producing point wise, making mistakes, and displaying a rediculous attitude on the ice then he needs to earn what he gets. Terry Murray peaching accountability yet he continues to make exceptions.
... I just want to point out a few things here. I've been keeping a record of how the defense has played 5 on 5, specifically how many scoring chances each one has been on the ice for, chances for and against.

There are two types of ratings that show this. The first is "Fenwick" rating, which is pretty simple: it gives each player a plus for a goal by the team, a shot on goal by the team, or a missed shot by the team, and a minus for any of those given up. It's been proven over the last several years that "Fenwick" ratings tie in with scoring chances nearly 100%. Here's how the defensemen stack up in "Fenwick" ratings.

Doughty, +36
Harrold, +28
Martinez, +26
Mitchell, +6
Scuderi, +1
Johnson, -10
Greene, -12
Muzzin, -16
Drewiske, -36

The second type of rating is "Corsi" ratings, which are simply the same as "Fenwick" ratings except blocked shots are counted too. Behind the Net counts "Corsi" ratings and weights it based on quality of teammates and competition, and Doughty's up there in that as well.

It's true that Doughty has struggled to get his offense going, but his overall play and defense has been solid.

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12-12-2010, 02:24 PM
  #106
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you'll have a really hard time being able to get two people on this board watching the same game in the same room to agree on something they just saw, let alone finding any empirical data that offers a consensus opinion of what exactly constitutes a "scoring chance" league wide.

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12-12-2010, 02:32 PM
  #107
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you'll have a really hard time being able to get two people on this board watching the same game in the same room to agree on something they just saw, let alone finding any empirical data that offers a consensus opinion of what exactly constitutes a "scoring chance" league wide.
... It's not the be all, end all. Never, EVER said that about statistics. I use them in a lot of my posts because it's something unbiased and objective to look at and consider, to tie in with what we observe in the games. To take stats blindly is a foolish game, but so also is to completely reject them.

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Old
12-12-2010, 02:56 PM
  #108
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I never said he was our worst player, but how does he not learn after the 30th time that what he is doing is interference?

At least this was the first time Quick this season has been bad with the puck handling. Doughty has been giving stupid, lazy penalties all season long.
Just watched the game. I wouldn't say the bold, it was just the first time he got burned (twice). He mishandles the puck almost every game, but has gotten lucky until tonight.

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12-12-2010, 03:05 PM
  #109
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That was blatantly obvious. He was a lifetime late and really had no business making a hipcheck at that situation anyways. I don't even think a defenseman should be at that spot on the ice when there are not any forwards back. I've always loved young defenseman and he and Jack are my favorite players but he's making it difficult to defend.
Usually when a player is late, like Doughty was on Havlat and the dumb hipcheck it's a result of poor conditioning. The whispers of doughnuts are getting louder.

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12-12-2010, 03:20 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
Usually when a player is late, like Doughty was on Havlat and the dumb hipcheck it's a result of poor conditioning. The whispers of doughnuts are getting louder.
I think it's a lot of this coupled with the heavy minutes he's getting. You'll notice he hardly moves unless he has the puck, even on the PP. Unless he's lugging the puck himself, he's doing a pretty poor job of getting open, getting in position, etc.

I'd rather his minutes be limited so he could squeeze the most out of them, personally, but I don't know what the real story is. Seems like we can come up with a ton of reasons that play into whatever the hell is going on with Doughty, but most of it is speculation based on observation...I want to know what's REALLY going on with the kid, because it's frustrating me to no end watching him piss away so much talent.

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12-12-2010, 03:41 PM
  #111
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how was Moller in this game?

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12-12-2010, 03:42 PM
  #112
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KINGSVISION: slow-mo of Clifford and Simmonds fight, please.

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Old
12-12-2010, 03:52 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... Back from the game. And, the Minnesota Wild can't say they didn't get anything for Christmas. They were gifted a victory.

And for the record, NO one got on Quick's case after he gave the Wild the first goal of the game. But TWO?!?!?! In all my years of watching hockey, I've never ever seen that in any league above midget or atom. I cringed when I heard the Bronx cheer given to him when he handled the puck after that, but how can you blame the crowd for that, especially after the Kings had just tied the game seconds before?

Everyone's talking about how the failures on the PP cost the team the game. Did you not notice that the Kings played absolutely exceptional defense? The Kings scored two goals in regulation while allowing just 16 shots on goal. That's enough to get a win. They won most of the physical battles, they won the fights. What more can you ask from the team, other than absolute domination?

Mr. Bernier, get your gear ready. Your time is coming. It'll be on the road (again), it'll be against a good team (again), but hopefully the team will respond.
While you are correct that they played awesome defense, (and were aggresively attacking almost the entire third period) 1/9 on the PP is just dismal and the way they went about it was mind numbing. I really dont understand all the hesitation at taking the point shot. Quick, low wristers are more effective at getting the puck on goal than these huge slap shot blasts, half of which are high or wide or both. Although I've seen more play with a top umbrella set-up lately, it takes the guys too long to move it from there down low or on a diagonal to get a clear shot. Frankly, the PP is just not sharp. Not the passing. Not the movement, and certainly not the shooting either. I hope TM has them spending major practice time on clearing up that problem. With the Western Conference being as tight as it is, if it remains unchanged, our PP is going to prevent us from picking up points we will need at the end of the season.

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Originally Posted by ibleedkings View Post
Surprised with the lack of mention of Kopi. He was an absolute beast last night. He could have easily has 5pts + last night, and by far was the best player on the ice.
He has been much better of late, and if it weren't for him the PP would have no power at all. He appears to have finally remembered that he has an excellent and very accurate shot, and he's looking to take it more than before.

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I think Quick will start on Monday. 2 puck handling blunders aside, he was once again stellar at actually stopping shots. Murray will keep his faith in Quick for Monday, then Bernier will get next start
I don't think TM will jump to Bernier on Monday. he'll get a start on the road trip, but nor Monday. Aside from one blunder and one bouncing puck, Quick played VERY WELL. (Of course that could be compared to saying except for the murders, Charles Manson wasn't a bad guy) But the saves he made were good and he played very well positionally covering the angles. I think TM rewards him with a vote of confidence and starts him Monday.

As for the jeering of Quick after the second goal, Classless. Sure, the fans are expressing themselves, kind of like we all used to yell at Robb Stauber to GET BACK IN THE NET but it isnt helpful, definitely defeats the purpose of going to the game to support your team, and demonstrates a lack of maturity as a fan.

Without a doubt, JQ has been our MVP this season and if it were not for him, we'd be closer to Calgary or even Edmonton than I care to think a-boot.


Last edited by DIEHARD the King fan: 12-12-2010 at 04:18 PM.
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12-12-2010, 05:47 PM
  #114
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That hit by Poni was friggin awesome

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12-12-2010, 06:06 PM
  #115
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That hit by Poni was friggin awesome
Oh man, I nearly forgot about that..THAT was beautiful...total freight train.

Poni's been one of our more physical players all season. Love what he brings and it's nice to see him back.

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12-12-2010, 07:15 PM
  #116
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That hit by Poni was friggin awesome
haha, i think my favorite part though was when you saw his face when the wild guy came up and started pushing him around. he looked so surprised!!

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12-12-2010, 08:34 PM
  #117
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I don't think TM will jump to Bernier on Monday. he'll get a start on the road trip, but nor Monday. Aside from one blunder and one bouncing puck, Quick played VERY WELL. (Of course that could be compared to saying except for the murders, Charles Manson wasn't a bad guy) But the saves he made were good and he played very well positionally covering the angles. I think TM rewards him with a vote of confidence and starts him Monday.

As for the jeering of Quick after the second goal, Classless. Sure, the fans are expressing themselves, kind of like we all used to yell at Robb Stauber to GET BACK IN THE NET but it isnt helpful, definitely defeats the purpose of going to the game to support your team, and demonstrates a lack of maturity as a fan.

Without a doubt, JQ has been our MVP this season and if it were not for him, we'd be closer to Calgary or even Edmonton than I care to think a-boot.
... As for your first point, yes - aside from being directly responsible for two goals against with terrible puck handling, and costing the Kings the game, Quick played well. Your second point, I didn't care for the Bronx cheer given to Quick, and if he had limited it to just one goal against, that whole thing would have blown over. But TWO? Come on. Look at it like this - despite all of the years Kopitar's been one of the best forwards on the team, you don't think there would be a negative reaction if Anze shot two pucks into his own net in the same game? Of course there would be.

And I definitely don't agree that Quick is the MVP of the Kings, or that without him the Kings would be one of the worst teams in the league. Quick's about 6th in save percentage for a team that has allowed the 3rd fewest shots in the NHL. It's not like the Kings get lit up with scoring chances all night and Quick is under siege. You could easily say that without the Kings, Quick wouldn't have the numbers he has. My choices for the MVP of the Kings thus far are Kopitar, Stoll, Williams, and perhaps Smyth, before Quick.

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12-12-2010, 08:46 PM
  #118
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how was Moller in this game?
Someone may disagree with me but LiL Oskie looked a little lost out there. He was pretty much a non factor although he had a few nice stick checks end up as turnovers.

OT: Sup Dutch. Long time.

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12-12-2010, 09:09 PM
  #119
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Someone may disagree with me but LiL Oskie looked a little lost out there. He was pretty much a non factor although he had a few nice stick checks end up as turnovers.

OT: Sup Dutch. Long time.
Probably mostly due to limited ice time, most of his shifts were on makeshift lines with whomever was left over after a PP/PK. He is growing his viking beard out, so maybe with that will come strength.

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12-12-2010, 09:11 PM
  #120
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While you are correct that they played awesome defense, (and were aggresively attacking almost the entire third period) 1/9 on the PP is just dismal and the way they went about it was mind numbing. I really dont understand all the hesitation at taking the point shot. Quick, low wristers are more effective at getting the puck on goal than these huge slap shot blasts, half of which are high or wide or both. Although I've seen more play with a top umbrella set-up lately, it takes the guys too long to move it from there down low or on a diagonal to get a clear shot. Frankly, the PP is just not sharp. Not the passing. Not the movement, and certainly not the shooting either. I hope TM has them spending major practice time on clearing up that problem. With the Western Conference being as tight as it is, if it remains unchanged, our PP is going to prevent us from picking up points we will need at the end of the season.



He has been much better of late, and if it weren't for him the PP would have no power at all. He appears to have finally remembered that he has an excellent and very accurate shot, and he's looking to take it more than before.



I don't think TM will jump to Bernier on Monday. he'll get a start on the road trip, but nor Monday. Aside from one blunder and one bouncing puck, Quick played VERY WELL. (Of course that could be compared to saying except for the murders, Charles Manson wasn't a bad guy) But the saves he made were good and he played very well positionally covering the angles. I think TM rewards him with a vote of confidence and starts him Monday.

As for the jeering of Quick after the second goal, Classless. Sure, the fans are expressing themselves, kind of like we all used to yell at Robb Stauber to GET BACK IN THE NET but it isnt helpful, definitely defeats the purpose of going to the game to support your team, and demonstrates a lack of maturity as a fan.

Without a doubt, JQ has been our MVP this season and if it were not for him, we'd be closer to Calgary or even Edmonton than I care to think a-boot.
what happened to you yesterday?

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12-12-2010, 09:12 PM
  #121
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... As for your first point, yes - aside from being directly responsible for two goals against with terrible puck handling, and costing the Kings the game, Quick played well. Your second point, I didn't care for the Bronx cheer given to Quick, and if he had limited it to just one goal against, that whole thing would have blown over. But TWO? Come on. Look at it like this - despite all of the years Kopitar's been one of the best forwards on the team, you don't think there would be a negative reaction if Anze shot two pucks into his own net in the same game? Of course there would be.

And I definitely don't agree that Quick is the MVP of the Kings, or that without him the Kings would be one of the worst teams in the league. Quick's about 6th in save percentage for a team that has allowed the 3rd fewest shots in the NHL. It's not like the Kings get lit up with scoring chances all night and Quick is under siege. You could easily say that without the Kings, Quick wouldn't have the numbers he has. My choices for the MVP of the Kings thus far are Kopitar, Stoll, Williams, and perhaps Smyth, before Quick.
A: In my opinion Williams is the only player so far who can be considered MVP before Quick. Kopitar is close behind Quick and gaining steam, but I think you are dead wrong. In terms of consistency and above average performance, Quick has been far and away the best King.

2: The powerplay has cost the Kings every single loss this season besides the Montreal game. It is a major ****ing concern and its a miracle we have won as much as we won with the powerplay of a basement dweller.

III: Your analogy of Kopitar shooting two pucks into the net is hilarious in its inaccuracy.

D: So if Quick gave up his two goals in the first ten seconds of the game, then nothing else, and then the Kings spent the rest of the game on the powerplay and only scored two goals, the loss is Quick's fault?

Fifth: I didn't realize a goalie had to be in front of a ****** defense to be considered elite. I guess Marty Brodeur's career hasn't been all the special.

Last: Quick's two goals against sucked ass. However, in any sense beyond the narrowest, the powerplay is a bigger problem than anything to do with Quick just as the universe is bigger than an atom.


Last edited by JDM: 12-12-2010 at 09:19 PM.
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12-12-2010, 09:16 PM
  #122
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The thing that bothers me is the Kings have spoon fed him eveything. They have given him the best minutes, the best partner, practically every minute on the PP and he's pissed it all away. He has not poduced at all. He is terrible on the PP, very average this year 5 on 5 and he is not producing at all. That doesn't even take into consideration all the errors he's made due to lack of complete effort or simply thinking he's good enough to do what he wants.

If he's not producing point wise, making mistakes, and displaying a rediculous attitude on the ice then he needs to earn what he gets. Terry Murray peaching accountability yet he continues to make exceptions.
Your insane.

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12-12-2010, 09:21 PM
  #123
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And I definitely don't agree that Quick is the MVP of the Kings, or that without him the Kings would be one of the worst teams in the league. Quick's about 6th in save percentage for a team that has allowed the 3rd fewest shots in the NHL. It's not like the Kings get lit up with scoring chances all night and Quick is under siege. You could easily say that without the Kings, Quick wouldn't have the numbers he has. My choices for the MVP of the Kings thus far are Kopitar, Stoll, Williams, and perhaps Smyth, before Quick.
Ah yes, I knew as soon the game was over Dutch would be on here making sure everybody understood how mediocore Quick is since puckhandling is not his strong suit, rather he tends to focus on unimportant things like stopping the puck.

You do realize that with less shots it is generally HARDER to high SVP since the goalies face less shots? That is why Florida goalies have for YEARS been very high in SVP since they have tended to be a team that allows alot of shots. Same as Colorado last year. Thing is, the Kings do not allow alot of shots but when they do allow them they tend to be of the high quality type chances, making his SVP MORE IMPRESSIVE due to the low shot total not less.

BTW it is, IMO, laugable to suggest Justin "turnover" Williams or Ryan "can't receive a pass" Smyth are MVPs before Quick. Smyth does little besides go to the net. Kopitar, Brown, Quick are the 3 guys I'd have as finalists for MVP right now with Stoll, Handzus, Williams, and Scuderi as the second group.

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12-12-2010, 09:30 PM
  #124
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A: In my opinion Williams is the only player so far who can be considered MVP before Quick. Kopitar is close behind Quick and gaining steam, but I think you are dead wrong. In terms of consistency and above average performance, Quick has been far and away the best King.
... You think I'm wrong, huh? You have a different opinion than I do? I'll try to hide my shock.

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2: The powerplay has cost the Kings every single loss this season besides the Montreal game. However, in any sense beyond the narrowest, the powerplay is a bigger problem than anything to do with Quick just as the universe is bigger than an atom.
... Exaggeration is fun. Nice to know that with a good power play, the Kings would be 26-1. Terrific.

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III: Your analogy of Kopitar shooting two pucks into the net is hilarious in its inaccuracy.
... Sorry, it's not easy to reach for a parallel for something as embarrassing as what I saw last night.

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D: So if Quick gave up his two goals in the first ten seconds of the game, then nothing else, and then the Kings spent the rest of the game on the powerplay and only scored two goals, the loss is Quick's fault?
... Talk about ridiculous analogies. Pot meet kettle? Actually, this surpasses the unlikelihood of mine.

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Fifth: I didn't realize a goalie had to be in front of a ****** defense to be considered elite. I guess Marty Brodeur's career hasn't been all the special.
... Actually, it's funny you say that! Brodeur's the most overrated goaltender in the history of the NHL, in my opinion. And - I'm not the only one who feels this way.

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You do realize that with less shots it is generally HARDER to high SVP since the goalies face less shots?
... That's a myth.

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12-12-2010, 09:44 PM
  #125
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... You think I'm wrong, huh? You have a different opinion than I do? I'll try to hide my shock.
One day this will stop being fun. Today is not that day



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... Exaggeration is fun. Nice to know that with a good power play, the Kings would be 26-1. Terrific.
As they say, fight fire with fire.

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... Sorry, it's not easy to reach for a parallel for something as embarrassing as what I saw last night.
Honesty.

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... Talk about ridiculous analogies. Pot meet kettle? Actually, this surpasses the unlikelihood of mine.
I'm not drawing an analogy. I'm extrapolating to its most extreme end what seems to be your method for assessing blame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... Actually, it's funny you say that! Brodeur's the most overrated goaltender in the history of the NHL, in my opinion. And - I'm not the only one who feels this way.
I'll have to browse around the sight in the next few weeks. Not in the mood to start an argument about Brodeur. In general, its not a black and white thing... goalies and team performance. For now, I'm comfortable aligning my observations with that of the vastly greater hockey world that believes Brodeur to be one of the best there ever has been. (until the last two years, of course).

Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch
... That's a myth.
Says... who?

have you played the position at a high or any level? I haven't... I have my opinion on the matter, but to have anything other than an opinion I would think you need to have played in goal for a significant amount of time against good competition, with enough reference to draw from... and other goalies to have spoken to and spent loads of time with, to have an opinion on this subject that goes beyond being just an outsider opinion.

Personally I think it can be harder when you don't face a ton of shots. It makes enough sense logically. Take golf for example... if you hit 1000 balls a day, its easier to make a pressure shot when you have to... if you haven't hit balls in a few days, you are slow start and in a particular moment, more likely to screw up. Then again, everyone is different. Some might thrive on facing less shots, others thrive on more.

You can't really say its a fact or a myth either way.


Last edited by JDM: 12-12-2010 at 09:50 PM.
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