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how long before people start complaining about the Boyd for SK trade?

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Old
12-15-2010, 09:51 AM
  #76
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Can't be worst than the Ribeiro trade...

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12-15-2010, 09:58 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by fatmax View Post
Boyd has been placed on waver again while Sergei seams to find his niche with the Preds.

So... how long before we see people (journalist, blogger, HF posters) start complaining about this trade?

What is funny is that these people already forgot that Sergei was a little punk that NEEDED to go away from the Habs locker room!

I fail to see anything to complain about in regards to that trade. We got rid of Sergei, who was a cancer in the dressing room and got whatever we could in exchange for him....its as simple as that!! There was never a doubt that Sergei had the skill, he just didn't have the heart or head to succeed in Montreal and he thought he had earned his spot on the top 2 lines by playing well for half a season. His poor team attitude was bringing the team and his brother down and both are better off now that he's gone. Andrei is also in a contract year, but his effort on the ice and point production is proving that he's better than he has been in the past.

Boyd isn't a great player by any means, but we took what Nashville was willing to give. If anything, I'm more upset that the Habs didn't keep Dan Ellis as the backup instead of Alex Auld....but I know I'm certainly not going to lose sleep over Sergei Kostitsyn finding his groove with another NHL team. He could have done it in Montreal if he had a better head on his shoulders, but his rotten attitude got him shipped out of town.

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12-15-2010, 10:17 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by fatmax View Post
Boyd has been placed on waver again while Sergei seams to find his niche with the Preds.

So... how long before we see people (journalist, blogger, HF posters) start complaining about this trade?

What is funny is that these people already forgot that Sergei was a little punk that NEEDED to go away from the Habs locker room!
Technically, nobody has forgotten how much of a punk he was/is, and nobody is complaining... it's just you stirring **** up

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12-15-2010, 10:17 AM
  #79
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He was a very talented player who just didn't mesh well with the situation he had here. Also, as someone pointed out, the fault lies somewhere between Carbonneau mishandling him, and his own attitude thwarting any kind of player maturation. This kid is a 2nd or 3rd line winger, and thusly he needs those kind of minutes. His entitlement problem was an issue that pushed the coach to demote him several times, and Gainey sending him to Hamilton didn't help his cause either, so the trade was necessary to help the team grow as a whole, even if we got what is now seen as next to nothing tangible for him. The intangibles were well worth the trade though, sadly.

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12-15-2010, 10:24 AM
  #80
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really we lost that trade definitively almost off the bat.

Neither Ellis nor Boyd were qualified, that we later signed Boyd as a UFA doesn't really come into the equation, he became an asset aquired by signing, not by trade (and judging by his popularity on the waiver wire, it's pretty clear that having his "negotiating" rights prior to the UFA period didn't really mean a thing.

I still think S.Kost will round out into a pretty solid NHLer, but he clearly couldn't stay with the habs, so perhaps it was "addition by subtraction".

at the time and to this day, I'm a little disappointed that we didn't just shop him around for the highest pick any team was willing to offer, even the last pick of the draft would have at least been something to show for it.

i guess PG figured that getting to talk to Ellis prior to the UFA period was worth more to the organization... fair enough.

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12-15-2010, 11:14 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
really we lost that trade definitively almost off the bat.

Neither Ellis nor Boyd were qualified, that we later signed Boyd as a UFA doesn't really come into the equation, he became an asset aquired by signing, not by trade (and judging by his popularity on the waiver wire, it's pretty clear that having his "negotiating" rights prior to the UFA period didn't really mean a thing.

I still think S.Kost will round out into a pretty solid NHLer, but he clearly couldn't stay with the habs, so perhaps it was "addition by subtraction".

at the time and to this day, I'm a little disappointed that we didn't just shop him around for the highest pick any team was willing to offer, even the last pick of the draft would have at least been something to show for it.

i guess PG figured that getting to talk to Ellis prior to the UFA period was worth more to the organization... fair enough.
Maybe he was shopped around and nobody was willing to give up a pick for him. With Darche and Pouliot playing well on the 3rd line, I just don't see where he would fit on this year's team, plus with him gone AK has been much better, to me that's a big benefit of moving him.

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12-15-2010, 11:17 AM
  #82
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People will always complain. But I don't think Kostitsyn starts putting up Mike Ribiero type numbers, and honestly, lots of us do not complain about getting Ninimaa for him.

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12-15-2010, 11:27 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
A garbage player that's loved by his new teammates, has had zero issues on or off ice in a new environment, and lately has been the best player on the ice for either team over the last several games.

I'll take a team full of "garbage," please and thanks.

Maybe it wasn't all the player?
He had problems with two separate coaches, and reportedly with several teammates. The guys who we consider our real leaders at the very least implied (when asked) that he needed to get his **** together. I believe Gionta (our current captain) said something to the effect of 'we can't have guys doing their own thing', or something like that.

I mean, at what point exactly would you cease to take his side?

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12-15-2010, 11:29 AM
  #84
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Maybe he was shopped around and nobody was willing to give up a pick for him. With Darche and Pouliot playing well on the 3rd line, I just don't see where he would fit on this year's team, plus with him gone AK has been much better, to me that's a big benefit of moving him.
I think he should of been shopped around a year earlier along with BGL if Martin had no interest in keeping or wanting either of them. Maybe SK deserves some of the blame but most of the blame for the problem was, imo, Martin's doing.

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12-15-2010, 11:35 AM
  #85
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People will always complain. But I don't think Kostitsyn starts putting up Mike Ribiero type numbers, and honestly, lots of us do not complain about getting Ninimaa for him.
Oh Really? 22 Pages of Hab fans disagree. That was a disgusting trade, the majority hated it.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=295017

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12-15-2010, 11:49 AM
  #86
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Wasn't it already a given we lost the trade value wise? We literally waited until Sergei's value was at it's lowest before trading him. Not only was he deemed a 'cancer' of sorts, he was a Russian speaking players without a contract (KHL risk, he did very well during the Olympics so I'm sure Minsk were ready to dish out some money). Terrible asset management. Luckily he was only a 7th rounder so we didn't exactly give up much to get him in the first place. Still, in hindsight we should have dealt him when the issues started. It was obvious Martin didn't want him on the team and there were rumours (true or false who knows) neither did the players. I'm not even sure why he was kept on the team so long unless management thought there was still hope. Hopefully Gauthier learned from the Latendresse and Sergei Kostitsyn situations and figured out a way to bring up young players better. I think he's done pretty well with Eller, Pacioretty, and Subban so far.

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12-15-2010, 12:01 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Wasn't it already a given we lost the trade value wise? We literally waited until Sergei's value was at it's lowest before trading him. Not only was he deemed a 'cancer' of sorts, he was a Russian speaking players without a contract (KHL risk, he did very well during the Olympics so I'm sure Minsk were ready to dish out some money). Terrible asset management. Luckily he was only a 7th rounder so we didn't exactly give up much to get him in the first place. Still, in hindsight we should have dealt him when the issues started. It was obvious Martin didn't want him on the team and there were rumours (true or false who knows) neither did the players. I'm not even sure why he was kept on the team so long unless management thought there was still hope. Hopefully Gauthier learned from the Latendresse and Sergei Kostitsyn situations and figured out a way to bring up young players better. I think he's done pretty well with Eller, Pacioretty, and Subban so far.
These are two different cases altogether...

Gainey should had sent back Lats to Juniors for an extra year as well as Price for a full year in Hamilton. But he did not.

SK has some behaviour problems outside the rink that was affecting his on-ice play. Good for him that he is waking up and maturing in Nashville.

But assets management his not the Habs' G.M. forte. They usually receive less than what they are giving or loosing.

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Old
12-15-2010, 12:05 PM
  #88
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Seriously what did people expect to win a trade with a young player with attitude problems. Already that we found a taker I was surprised. This is the same player who didn't give a flying you know what during the playoffs didn't wanna practice hard and wasn't around the team that even Price out of all guys called him out. I couldn't care less about SK and didn't expect to win a trade I'm even surprised a team traded for him I was sure he would have left for Russia

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12-15-2010, 12:08 PM
  #89
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He had problems with two separate coaches, and reportedly with several teammates. The guys who we consider our real leaders at the very least implied (when asked) that he needed to get his **** together. I believe Gionta (our current captain) said something to the effect of 'we can't have guys doing their own thing', or something like that.

I mean, at what point exactly would you cease to take his side?
First, you're replying to a Preds fan who mentions that he didn't see all the "cancer" and "garbage" some in here love to think he was. So he's not going to cease to take his side, since he's been great for them.

But everything you're saying in this post about Sergei could have been said for Price in all his time with us until this year. From players, to coaches, to serious journalists à la Dany Dubé who rarely badmouth a Habs player and always come to their defense, Price was doing EVERYTHING you're saying Sergei was suppose to have done. Thank god we didn't trade him because of it......

But I guess that the reason why they didin't do is because he was worth the trouble. I will still believe that you don't necessarily need to be a 1st rounder to be worth the trouble. You can find some gems in later rounds and where you were pick should not determine if you are worth it or not.

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12-15-2010, 12:13 PM
  #90
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Any player in the NHL can go on a hot streak. Bottom line is that Sergei is not the type of player that will help a team win important games in the playoffs. The Habs right now are build on character above all else, so he just didn't/doesn't fit. Regardless of the pieces (or lack there of) that we received in return, the trade was a win for the Habs.

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Old
12-15-2010, 12:22 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Seriously what did people expect to win a trade with a young player with attitude problems. Already that we found a taker I was surprised. This is the same player who didn't give a flying you know what during the playoffs didn't wanna practice hard and wasn't around the team that even Price out of all guys called him out. I couldn't care less about SK and didn't expect to win a trade I'm even surprised a team traded for him I was sure he would have left for Russia
There's winning a trade, there's breaking even and there's lopisded trades....The story has not ended yet, but it's clear that there's more chances that this deal because another lopisded one and not to our favour. I've always said that it's not really who you deal, it's who you get. But when who you deal becomes an important player (he's not there yet I know...) and we get nothing, that's where it's more painful.

But going back to "win a trade with a young player with attitude problems...", well that's my main point. How many teams have been known for having so many players with "supposed" attitude problems that they HAD to be traded and couldn't be worked with? So let's say that it's all because of this crazy city, and let's pretend that it's not EVERYBODY who could play in this crazy market....shouldn't you know that by now? Shouldn't be on top of your game, know your players and deal them, when the timing is at his best? And not wait till there are newspapers clippings, live interventions from your teamates on TV, events like not wanting to report and such prior to make a move? The Habs were really caught by surprise when all those things happened?

And another thing. If I'm a member of the Habs organization, and I know that my team is not for everone to thrive in, and I know that some of my young players have left this stupid market and went somewhere else to thrive, I would expect to know that other teams in this league also know that. That some teams if not all will believe that Timmins is indeed a fine scout especially in later rounds and that in the end, if those guys are not succeeding, it's not because of their lack of talent but it's because everything our city is, and their city isn't.

I will believe that the Sergei story should have been handled differently. If it's not trying to keep him and work with a guy with attitude problems, it's dealing him when he's at his best knowing that Montreal is not a good place for him. So we dealt him and we waited till he wasn't worth anything. Same guy who at one point some of us thought he could have become a better overall player than his bro. Same player some people in here couldn't care less about Getzlaf since we had both bros, same player who at 20 year old had a regular season of 27 points in 52 games and 8 points in 12 playoffs games?

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Old
12-15-2010, 12:26 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Jakomyte View Post
Any player in the NHL can go on a hot streak. Bottom line is that Sergei is not the type of player that will help a team win important games in the playoffs. The Habs right now are build on character above all else, so he just didn't/doesn't fit. Regardless of the pieces (or lack there of) that we received in return, the trade was a win for the Habs.
I will nitpick and say that you cannot have a team filled with the exact type of attitudes and same type of players. Pretty sure we can say that AKost and Pouliot amongst a few don't have character has their #1 trait. Yet, SKost was seen as a little bulldog on the ice who had some character when he was playing. I've always mentioned that you have to play your players strengths and that complementarity was the key.....Now that Dany Dubé mentions that complementarity forms unity....I guess it will be taken more seriously.

But you are right. Any player can go on a hot streak. But at this point, as far as the deal is concerned, not sure how we can't say that the Preds are the sole beneficiary of the trade.

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12-15-2010, 12:27 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Jakomyte View Post
Any player in the NHL can go on a hot streak. Bottom line is that Sergei is not the type of player that will help a team win important games in the playoffs. The Habs right now are build on character above all else, so he just didn't/doesn't fit. Regardless of the pieces (or lack there of) that we received in return, the trade was a win for the Habs.
Sergei did help the Habs win playoff games in his first year with the club. I think he was second in points just behind Kovalev

no one in this thread is saying that Kostitsyn didn't had attitude problem but it's pretty clear he was not a cancer like some of you say. He was like in London just read old Kane interview if you don't believe me and he's like in Nashville. Sure he acted like a baby because the Habs gave everything to him from beginning . They should had work with him the same why they do with Eller and Subban right now

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12-15-2010, 12:31 PM
  #94
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Oh Really? 22 Pages of Hab fans disagree. That was a disgusting trade, the majority hated it.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=295017
22 pages means nothing honestly for a Habs topic. Don't kid yourself. I have no need to waste my time reading 22 pages, but the gist of the first and last pages are addition by subtraction and that is exactly how I remember it. At the time, Ninimaa seemed like a perfectly adequate top 4 D in need of a change of scenery, everyone thought we were getting the Edmonton or NYI version.

Would people complain now? Sure...but, not that much in my opinion. I still think the majority of Habs fans know he needed to go to ever reach his potential. He could have stayed and floated through another year or so before Plekanec overtook him on the depth chart.

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12-15-2010, 12:37 PM
  #95
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First, you're replying to a Preds fan who mentions that he didn't see all the "cancer" and "garbage" some in here love to think he was. So he's not going to cease to take his side, since he's been great for them.

But everything you're saying in this post about Sergei could have been said for Price in all his time with us until this year. From players, to coaches, to serious journalists à la Dany Dubé who rarely badmouth a Habs player and always come to their defense, Price was doing EVERYTHING you're saying Sergei was suppose to have done. Thank god we didn't trade him because of it......

But I guess that the reason why they didin't do is because he was worth the trouble. I will still believe that you don't necessarily need to be a 1st rounder to be worth the trouble. You can find some gems in later rounds and where you were pick should not determine if you are worth it or not.
I understood full well who I was replying to, since his avatar reads 'Predators 2010-11' and his username makes reference for some reason to the neck of (head coach) Barry Trotz. The question was a hypothetical 'Would you or wouldn't you?'.

I really don't feel like getting into a whole philsophical debate about why Sergei was dealt and Price remains, since there are a thousand equally speculative reasons for that. But clearly everything that factors into managment's evaluation of their players led to keeping one and parting ways with the other. I regret that we didn't get a pick or something that was more substantial than, well, nothing really. But whatever. It fits into the Ribeiro category of 'Should've gotten more, but glad he's gone.'

And for the record, I can't recall Price pulling any BS under Martin's watch, possibly realizing that, if you do so under consecutive coaches, you tend to look like the problem. In fact, that Price just kept his mouth shut and sat on the bench speaks pretty well for him by comparison.

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12-15-2010, 12:45 PM
  #96
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Sergei did help the Habs win playoff games in his first year with the club. I think he was second in points just behind Kovalev

no one in this thread is saying that Kostitsyn didn't had attitude problem but it's pretty clear he was not a cancer like some of you say. He was like in London just read old Kane interview if you don't believe me and he's like in Nashville. Sure he acted like a baby because the Habs gave everything to him from beginning . They should had work with him the same why they do with Eller and Subban right now
I agree. I kinda believe that had they left him in the AHL for most of the 07/08 season (if not all) I think he'd still be in the Habs organization. Why? I think the major rift between Sergei and management started when they sent Sergei down to the AHL in 08/09. They felt he didn't come ready for camp and Sergei obvious felt entitled to a spot. Had he paid his dues in the AHL and not called up so soon, I think he'd have made the team and might have come in more prepared and perhaps more mature (without a sense of entitlement). Perhaps it may have prevented him from bouncing around from the AHL to the NHL like he did during his tenure.

I kinda wanted to see Pacioretty spend more time the AHL this season because I think it'd be best for him to play there until he gets to the point he no longer has to return. He too has bounced around from the AHL and NHL like Sergei but he reacted differently. He basically lost all confidence in himself as a player (but he did take a little shot at Martin in an interview). Hopefully he's reached that point of no return. He's played 50 straight games in the AHL dating back to last season.

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12-15-2010, 12:59 PM
  #97
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I agree. I kinda believe that had they left him in the AHL for most of the 07/08 season (if not all) I think he'd still be in the Habs organization. Why? I think the major rift between Sergei and management started when they sent Sergei down to the AHL in 08/09. They felt he didn't come ready for camp and Sergei obvious felt entitled to a spot. Had he paid his dues in the AHL and not called up so soon, I think he'd have made the team and might have come in more prepared and perhaps more mature (without a sense of entitlement). Perhaps it may have prevented him from bouncing around from the AHL to the NHL like he did during his tenure.

I kinda wanted to see Pacioretty spend more time the AHL this season because I think it'd be best for him to play there until he gets to the point he no longer has to return. He too has bounced around from the AHL and NHL like Sergei but he reacted differently. He basically lost all confidence in himself as a player (but he did take a little shot at Martin in an interview). Hopefully he's reached that point of no return. He's played 50 straight games in the AHL dating back to last season.
Very much agreed. I think we saw similar issues with Price's confidence, especially the last two years, and with Latendresse even more so. I know that we see a lot of younger players in the NHL, but I think the one quibble with recent management has been a desire to really rush players into the bigs, they play a year or so and then feel entitled to a spot.

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12-15-2010, 01:00 PM
  #98
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Sergei did help the Habs win playoff games in his first year with the club. I think he was second in points just behind Kovalev

no one in this thread is saying that Kostitsyn didn't had attitude problem but it's pretty clear he was not a cancer like some of you say. He was like in London just read old Kane interview if you don't believe me and he's like in Nashville. Sure he acted like a baby because the Habs gave everything to him from beginning . They should had work with him the same why they do with Eller and Subban right now
Really?

Sure, Sergei was find and helpful when things were going right (see 07/08 season when the Habs were at the top of their conference). But as soon as he hit a slump... as soon as he was challenged to try something different or work harder, he became a little *****. Its very easy to be helpful when things are going well, its when the team hits a slump or the player hits a slump that true character is revealed. Having to work hard and support your team to get through the tough times is what builds character, and Sergei folded in 08/09 along with some other players that were shipped out of town.

The coaches only have so much energy to go around, and their main focus should be winning, not on dealing with immature players. The reason that the Habs are able to work with Eller/Subban/Price the way they do/did is because these players are checked in, they have a team first mentality, and even though the will falter, that stays their priority. Sergei only ever thinks about himself. Maybe that will change as he matures, but there are plenty of guys like him that never made a real difference on a team, even if they had a few seasons where they put up some nice points.

Lets not pretend like we gave away some future Patrick Kane or Marian Hossa... this guy's top end is probably closer to Petr Sykora... and that's if he really puts it all together. I'll be surprised if he cracks 50 points this season.

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12-15-2010, 01:03 PM
  #99
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I agree. I kinda believe that had they left him in the AHL for most of the 07/08 season (if not all) I think he'd still be in the Habs organization. Why? I think the major rift between Sergei and management started when they sent Sergei down to the AHL in 08/09. They felt he didn't come ready for camp and Sergei obvious felt entitled to a spot. Had he paid his dues in the AHL and not called up so soon, I think it'd have been a lot less likely he'd have bounced around from the AHL to the NHL like he did during his tenure.

I kinda wanted to see Pacioretty spend more time the AHL this season because I think it'd be best for him to play there until he gets to the point he no longer has to return. He too has bounced around from the AHL and NHL like Sergei but he reacted differently. He basically lost all confidence in himself as a player (but he did take a little shot at Martin in an interview). Hopefully he's reached that point of no return. He's played 50 straight games in the AHL dating back to last season.

in their two first year

Pacioretty stats

34 games 3 goals 8 assists 11 points
52 games 3 goals 11 assists 14 points
no playoff game

Kostitsyn stats

52 games 9 goals 18 assists 27 points
56 games 8 goals 15 assists 23 points

playoff

12 games 3 goals 5 assists 8 points
1 games 0 points

that's the main diffenrece between the two one had some succes in the NHL,he think he's a NHL player and the other one struggle in the NHL and knew that AHL will help him progess

I agree that they should had leave him in the AHL and if you want to call him to put him on the 2nd line when you bench a legit top6 player in Ryder. What kind of message it send to Sergei. They basically told him you're ready for a top6 role in the NHL.

I remembered when I bought my Sergei t-shirt at the Bell the girl told me 90% of tee-shirt she sold that night was Sergei tee-shirt. Sergei was a fan favorite and he was aware of it and that was a part that gave him the big head.

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12-15-2010, 01:03 PM
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barrytrotzsneck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I agree. I kinda believe that had they left him in the AHL for most of the 07/08 season (if not all) I think he'd still be in the Habs organization. Why? I think the major rift between Sergei and management started when they sent Sergei down to the AHL in 08/09. They felt he didn't come ready for camp and Sergei obvious felt entitled to a spot. Had he paid his dues in the AHL and not called up so soon, I think he'd have made the team and might have come in more prepared and perhaps more mature (without a sense of entitlement). Perhaps it may have prevented him from bouncing around from the AHL to the NHL like he did during his tenure.

I kinda wanted to see Pacioretty spend more time the AHL this season because I think it'd be best for him to play there until he gets to the point he no longer has to return. He too has bounced around from the AHL and NHL like Sergei but he reacted differently. He basically lost all confidence in himself as a player (but he did take a little shot at Martin in an interview). Hopefully he's reached that point of no return. He's played 50 straight games in the AHL dating back to last season.
What's interesting is that both David Poile and Barry Trotz had a lengthy chat with young Kostitsyn during the summer, to sort of "lay out expectations." He was basically told that they didn't care what happened in Montreal, that it was all history, and that this was his chance for a fresh start, a clean slate. They also told him that he'd have to earn a spot, and that if he didn't, he'd either be a scratch or in Milwaukee--something he pledged to do. Now, had it come to that, would he have honored that? Who knows, it didn't come to that...he had a fantastic training camp until he broke his foot, but he still made enough of an impression to cement a spot, and played through the injury to insure he kept it. Now that he's finally healthy, he's reaping the reward.

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