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how long before people start complaining about the Boyd for SK trade?

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Old
12-15-2010, 01:08 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Jakomyte View Post
Really?

Sure, Sergei was find and helpful when things were going right (see 07/08 season when the Habs were at the top of their conference). But as soon as he hit a slump... as soon as he was challenged to try something different or work harder, he became a little *****. Its very easy to be helpful when things are going well, its when the team hits a slump or the player hits a slump that true character is revealed. Having to work hard and support your team to get through the tough times is what builds character, and Sergei folded in 08/09 along with some other players that were shipped out of town.

The coaches only have so much energy to go around, and their main focus should be winning, not on dealing with immature players. The reason that the Habs are able to work with Eller/Subban/Price the way they do/did is because these players are checked in, they have a team first mentality, and even though the will falter, that stays their priority. Sergei only ever thinks about himself. Maybe that will change as he matures, but there are plenty of guys like him that never made a real difference on a team, even if they had a few seasons where they put up some nice points.

Lets not pretend like we gave away some future Patrick Kane or Marian Hossa... this guy's top end is probably closer to Petr Sykora... and that's if he really puts it all together. I'll be surprised if he cracks 50 points this season.

we are talking about a 21 years old kids, sure he will not be perfect and the same thing can happen to Subban or Eller. They only have 20 games under the belt no one know how they are going to react next year. Even if a think they are going to be ok but that's because they are handle the right way IMO

Just imagine if we called Subban after 20 games in the AHL last year and had succes with the team. It's impossible to know how he will have react if he had struggle this year.

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Old
12-15-2010, 01:59 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Quarantesix View Post
we are talking about a 21 years old kids, sure he will not be perfect and the same thing can happen to Subban or Eller. They only have 20 games under the belt no one know how they are going to react next year. Even if a think they are going to be ok but that's because they are handle the right way IMO

Just imagine if we called Subban after 20 games in the AHL last year and had succes with the team. It's impossible to know how he will have react if he had struggle this year.
If you honestly can't see the difference between guys like Eller/Subban and S. Kostitsyn in terms of attitude, then I can't help you.

I'm not saying Sergei is evil, just that his priorities never seemed to be 'team above all else'. That is what management decided is important and Eller/Subban seem to clearly understand that. Doesn't mean they aren't unhappy if they get benched/scratched, but you can see the way they talk about their experience that they get it. Sergei doesn't fit the mould, which is why he didn't play much during the second half of last year and why he got shipped out.

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Old
12-15-2010, 02:01 PM
  #103
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It started the second he was traded.

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Old
12-15-2010, 02:47 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
.

But going back to "win a trade with a young player with attitude problems...", well that's my main point. How many teams have been known for having so many players with "supposed" attitude problems that they HAD to be traded and couldn't be worked with? So let's say that it's all because of this crazy city, and let's pretend that it's not EVERYBODY who could play in this crazy market....shouldn't you know that by now? Shouldn't be on top of your game, know your players and deal them, when the timing is at his best? And not wait till there are newspapers clippings, live interventions from your teamates on TV, events like not wanting to report and such prior to make a move? The Habs were really caught by surprise when all those things happened?

I will believe that the Sergei story should have been handled differently. If it's not trying to keep him and work with a guy with attitude problems, it's dealing him when he's at his best knowing that Montreal is not a good place for him?

I understand your point in the 1rst paragraph... I think its something that needs to be adressed here. Yes, more than in any other city in the league. Its not the bars, its the fame... that's powerfull stuff. You don't work with kids that are used to ''setbacks'' ... and dealing with them could go either way. I don't think the organization should be held responsible for the way they deal with players ; They are responsible if they don't. In sergei's case, he ran out of lifelines.

I completely agree with the 2nd part, (although imo, its classical 2nd guessing) But I think he was given support and trust ... and he threw it away. If they ''trusted'' that he would turn the corner... and he didn't in the span of 3 years... are they really to blame? The risk of trusting him vs the risk of trading him ? it soon became "the risk of keeping him vs trading him'' ...they went all the way with him...

Again, it has nothing to do with on ice performances. Its things like arriving late on the bus (if not at all) which sergei seemed to be so fond of. Things that makes the entire organization look bad.


Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
What's interesting is that both David Poile and Barry Trotz had a lengthy chat with young Kostitsyn during the summer, to sort of "lay out expectations." He was basically told that they didn't care what happened in Montreal, that it was all history, and that this was his chance for a fresh start, a clean slate. .
Sergei wasn't a headcase off the start...he actually had a phenomenal season when he made it here. he looked motivated. There is good in him and if he does get his mind straight...he'll be a good player.

the thing was not to go overboard stating his potential, and not ranting at the trade . That means I am happy he has apparently found himself, but I'm not foolish enough to think he can go 20 games with the preds for the case to be closed.

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Old
12-15-2010, 04:36 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
A garbage player that's loved by his new teammates, has had zero issues on or off ice in a new environment, and lately has been the best player on the ice for either team over the last several games.

I'll take a team full of "garbage," please and thanks.

Maybe it wasn't all the player?
just wait until he doesn't get his way and packs up his bags and goes home. He made a good impression when he first arrived in Montreal too you know.

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Old
12-15-2010, 04:41 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
First, you're replying to a Preds fan who mentions that he didn't see all the "cancer" and "garbage" some in here love to think he was. So he's not going to cease to take his side, since he's been great for them.

But everything you're saying in this post about Sergei could have been said for Price in all his time with us until this year. From players, to coaches, to serious journalists à la Dany Dubé who rarely badmouth a Habs player and always come to their defense, Price was doing EVERYTHING you're saying Sergei was suppose to have done. Thank god we didn't trade him because of it......

But I guess that the reason why they didin't do is because he was worth the trouble. I will still believe that you don't necessarily need to be a 1st rounder to be worth the trouble. You can find some gems in later rounds and where you were pick should not determine if you are worth it or not.
Price had his issues, but the players never voted him off the team, he didn't walk out on the team and his agent certainly didn't have to tell him stop being a baby and to come back to the team...not once but twice. SKost might be the biggest crybaby in the entire league. Even Grabs showed more dignity when faced with adversity. In fact, I can't think of anybody in all of profession sports save for Yashin or A-Rod who have handled themselves with less dignity.

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Old
12-15-2010, 04:45 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by fatmax View Post
Boyd has been placed on waver again while Sergei seams to find his niche with the Preds.

So... how long before we see people (journalist, blogger, HF posters) start complaining about this trade?

What is funny is that these people already forgot that Sergei was a little punk that NEEDED to go away from the Habs locker room!
Small fry trade.

Addition by subtraction.

Doesn't make or break a franchise.

Not worth complaining over.

period.

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Old
12-15-2010, 05:10 PM
  #108
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Trading SK for a piece of wood would've been good enough for me. We got a player that was a potential player for us and it didn't work out. It's not the end of the world.

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Old
12-15-2010, 05:23 PM
  #109
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who's SK ?

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Old
12-15-2010, 05:34 PM
  #110
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Scott Gomez:

28 games, 9 points, -2

Salary? 8 millions


Sergei Kostitsyn:

24 games, 11 points, +2

Salary? 550 000$


Enough said !!

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Old
12-15-2010, 05:57 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Price had his issues, but the players never voted him off the team, he didn't walk out on the team and his agent certainly didn't have to tell him stop being a baby and to come back to the team...not once but twice. SKost might be the biggest crybaby in the entire league. Even Grabs showed more dignity when faced with adversity. In fact, I can't think of anybody in all of profession sports save for Yashin or A-Rod who have handled themselves with less dignity.
That's is so incredibly ridiculous.
First off all, just a few years back, Pavelec did the same thing after being in the EXACT same situation S.K was in. What team is he playing on this year?...Hey, look at that, he's still in Atlanta. But more importantly, look at his stats. He's 3rd in the NHL for GAA and 2nd for Sv% while having played 20Games. But who cares right....Sergei was a ******, that's all there is to it...Ship him out..who freaking cares!

When Sergei refused to report to AHL, he called his agent and requested a trade. His agent agreed with his decision and spoke to Gainey. The word was out the next day that Gainey was shopping him. There were ZERO attempts to make him part of our team again. Gainey wasn't able to move him, and so, he remained in AHL.
He worked hard according to Boucher. Did his things and wasn't a head case at all.
The Habs struggled for a big part during the first half of the season, especially in scoring, but refused to squash the beef with Sergei until about 2months into the season when we had no choice but to call him up.
Just to put you back into context, in his first game back up, we also had O'Byrne-Mara-Leach-Chipchura-MaxPac-Wyman-White-Pyatt that weren't considered regulars. Needless to say, they really thought of SK as a last resort type of call up. It doesn't end there though, Martin does what he loves to do and plays the musical chair with his lines and players. SK plays 9min in his first game back, then 17 and 18 the next two, then back down to 13-11, then back up, and it continues like this throughout the remainder of his year. How do you expect consistency from your players when you're not even consistent with them to begin with.
Everybody already knew things like this could hurt young players, and MaxPac confirmed it this season by saying how much he was affected from line juggling. But with SK, it's none of that, the kid is just a cancer..


Pavelec on the other hand was treated much better and they made him understand. We didn't do anything with SK. First off, we let him screw up, and screw up some more. Then we sent him down, for no apparent reason really. Then he rebelled, and after that we let him be the outcast. There isn't a better case of mismanagement.



As for Price, he was highly protected. Not because he had a better attitude. His change in attitude occurred over the past few months going as far as late last season around the POs. He was criticized by many for being the first player out of the pre-game warm-ups when he wasn't the goalie playing and his effort levels during practices was terrible. But then, one day during the POs, he's heard telling something to SK in the locker and wow, this kid is mature now!

The biggest difference between the Price and SK situation is quite simple to see. They worked with one player, and the other, they pushed to the side and gave him close to no chance.

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Old
12-15-2010, 06:43 PM
  #112
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Sergei wasn't even traded for Boyd. He was traded for "5 days of negociation" with Boyd and Ellis. The Habs were unable to sign Boyd and Ellis (maybe they didn't want to) and they hit the UFA market on July 1st.

Boyd was signed on July 1st but it's not like you need to negociate a week to sign a 4th liner. Even if the Habs didn't do the trade they would have probably signed Boyd anyway.

The trade was just a smokescreen to hide the fact that we gave Kostitsyn for free. Kostitsyn could have gone unqualified (No QO), it would have amounted to the same results, but at least by making that trade, Pierre Gauthier looked like he at leas tried to get something out of Sergei.

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Old
12-15-2010, 07:34 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
These are two different cases altogether...

Gainey should had sent back Lats to Juniors for an extra year as well as Price for a full year in Hamilton. But he did not.

SK has some behaviour problems outside the rink that was affecting his on-ice play. Good for him that he is waking up and maturing in Nashville.

But assets management his not the Habs' G.M. forte. They usually receive less than what they are giving or loosing.
Come now this is false. Lats was scoring 16 goals a yr his first few yrs. He just needed to stop taking it lightly and work harder. The team needed the big body with skill. He was very close to breaking out except his conditioning and attitude didn't evolve.

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Old
12-15-2010, 11:09 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post

The biggest difference between the Price and SK situation is quite simple to see. They worked with one player, and the other, they pushed to the side and gave him close to no chance.
You are telling like it is. Martin was playing around with SK's emotion. Granted, SK was immature. But the way Martin treated SK was ugly to say the least.

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12-15-2010, 11:18 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by linp View Post
You are telling like it is. Martin was playing around with SK's emotion. Granted, SK was immature. But the way Martin treated SK was ugly to say the least.
True to a point, but Sergei also pulled some stupid stunts like not reporting to Hamilton, the supposed confrontation with Gomez and then the playoffs in which he thought he didn't have to practice.

Price never did any stupid stuff like that, Sergei made his bed and that is why he is gone.

When backup goalie Carey Price, dripping with sweat, got to the Montreal dressing room after staying on late at the team’s game-day skate with others who won’t start Game 3 of their playoff series against Pittsburgh, fresh-looking Sergei Kostitsyn was walking by.

“Why weren’t you on the ice?” an angry Price asked Kostitsyn, who also won’t play.

Kostitsyn mumbled something and kept walking, and Price called after him “too good?”

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12-15-2010, 11:51 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by linp View Post
You are telling like it is. Martin was playing around with SK's emotion. Granted, SK was immature. But the way Martin treated SK was ugly to say the least.
The players told Martin they wanted him off the team. SK got what was coming to him. He walked out on the team twice and when he got his chance he was milking it on the ice, and the players called a spade a spade.

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Old
12-16-2010, 01:12 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Erika EllerWick View Post
Scott Gomez:

28 games, 9 points, -2

Salary? 8 millions


Sergei Kostitsyn:

24 games, 11 points, +2

Salary? 550 000$


Enough said !!
They don't even play same position

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Old
12-16-2010, 07:17 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Price had his issues, but the players never voted him off the team, he didn't walk out on the team and his agent certainly didn't have to tell him stop being a baby and to come back to the team...not once but twice. SKost might be the biggest crybaby in the entire league. Even Grabs showed more dignity when faced with adversity. In fact, I can't think of anybody in all of profession sports save for Yashin or A-Rod who have handled themselves with less dignity.
Fortunately, I guess we didn't have the chance to see how Price would have handled himself IF he would have been sent back in the AHL.....We're not even concerned, and some of us found totally unjustifed his return in the AHL at some point. As far as being voted off the team....you know what though, despite EVERYTHING he had done that was so terrible, if you believe that rumor that he was, well you can also believe the rumor that he was voted BACK IN at some point. If so, that means he wasn't a lost cause, he had some talent and players recognized clearly his lack of maturity but recognized his talent as well.

Yes, he might be a crybaby. But something tells me that you can still work with those players. Again, how many players did we have to evict based on off-ice/on/ice issues lately anyway? How come it's way more than every other team in the league?

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Old
12-16-2010, 07:27 AM
  #119
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True to a point, but Sergei also pulled some stupid stunts like not reporting to Hamilton, the supposed confrontation with Gomez and then the playoffs in which he thought he didn't have to practice.

Price never did any stupid stuff like that, Sergei made his bed and that is why he is gone.

When backup goalie Carey Price, dripping with sweat, got to the Montreal dressing room after staying on late at the team’s game-day skate with others who won’t start Game 3 of their playoff series against Pittsburgh, fresh-looking Sergei Kostitsyn was walking by.

“Why weren’t you on the ice?” an angry Price asked Kostitsyn, who also won’t play.

Kostitsyn mumbled something and kept walking, and Price called after him “too good?”
How about the confrontation between Markov and Price? As far as not reporting to Hamilton, well fortunately for Price he didn't have to wonder about that one.....And those are the stories we know....how about all the confrontations we don't know about? How about the fact that while he was struggling, Price at one point was known as lazy and disinterested, and having a freakin attitude towards his teamates when they were shooting a little bit high on him etc. Price was just like SKost at one point. He thought his talent was enough, he lived the great life in Montreal and thought he was all that.....until last year when he realized that there was another goalie who was much better than him......and realized it more when the team traded the much better goalie believing in him 100%. If the same type of treatment, which is believing in him would have been applied to SKost, if the communication lines would have been opened not only for SKost but for a whole lot of players, I will believe there's a lot of players we could have "saved" from developing elsewhere.

I have no idea why people don't see what confidence does to a player. We're seeing it with SKost, we're seeing it lately with O'Byrne and now we are fortunate enough to see it with Price.....amongst every other player here and elsewhere that we're seeing it as well.

Again, SKost might have been the less mature player we've ever had in ages. But he was no Avery. And yet, there is a team in this league who still wants to work with Avery. I also believe that Perron was known to be that little brat who was terrible with his coach and teamates also thinking he was all that. Guess what, they are missing him a whole lot right now. And there are surely some other stories we don't know about 'cause they happen to not be in Montreal, of players that are surely as immature as SKost but teams find a way to work with them. But it's tough to open the lines of communication and talk with them when the guy in front is either Gauthier, Gainey, Carbo or Martin.....find the link between those 4 guys and you'll understand why communication doesn't happen a whole lot. And how do I know that they don't communicate a whole lot? Well from the same journalists who are reporting all the SKost stories suddenly people believe in.....

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Old
12-16-2010, 07:46 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by linp View Post
You are telling like it is. Martin was playing around with SK's emotion. Granted, SK was immature. But the way Martin treated SK was ugly to say the least.
How so, he had a poor work ethic and the off ice stuff was more important than being ready to play. Much like the Higgins situation.

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12-16-2010, 07:50 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Booba View Post
Sergei wasn't even traded for Boyd. He was traded for "5 days of negociation" with Boyd and Ellis. The Habs were unable to sign Boyd and Ellis (maybe they didn't want to) and they hit the UFA market on July 1st.

Boyd was signed on July 1st but it's not like you need to negociate a week to sign a 4th liner. Even if the Habs didn't do the trade they would have probably signed Boyd anyway.

The trade was just a smokescreen to hide the fact that we gave Kostitsyn for free. Kostitsyn could have gone unqualified (No QO), it would have amounted to the same results, but at least by making that trade, Pierre Gauthier looked like he at leas tried to get something out of Sergei.
Exactly, he wore out his welcome here and everybody in the hockey world knew it and were weary of taking a chance on him.

Guys like JP Dumont and MacArthur were let walk by teams and they never had the baggage that SK did.

Some will always want to get on the soapbox over trades like this, I just don't see the point.

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12-16-2010, 08:13 AM
  #122
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I don'T care about SK. Yes he's talented. He's been given many chances to redeem himself and he never took them.

I don't miss him.

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Old
12-16-2010, 08:36 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
How so, he had a poor work ethic and the off ice stuff was more important than being ready to play. Much like the Higgins situation.
A lot of bloggers here just remember the SK after he was already humiliated by Martin and probably has decided to quit the team. Was he like that when he was in London or Hamilton?
I agree with some bloggers that the management should have traded him at the start of last year before pushing him to the breaking point. They are both losers.

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12-16-2010, 08:57 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by linp View Post
A lot of bloggers here just remember the SK after he was already humiliated by Martin and probably has decided to quit the team. Was he like that when he was in London or Hamilton?
I agree with some bloggers that the management should have traded him at the start of last year before pushing him to the breaking point. They are both losers.
He probably didn't have a lot of value and they had key guys out so somebody had to play top 6.

Carbonneau had the same problem the year before and he ended up back in Hamilton.

For a guy that was ultra skilled he didn't tear up the AHL..13pts in 16 games in both 08-09 and 09-10.

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Old
12-16-2010, 09:07 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Erika EllerWick View Post
Scott Gomez:

28 games, 9 points, -2

Salary? 8 millions


Sergei Kostitsyn:

24 games, 11 points, +2

Salary? 550 000$


Enough said !!
Poor you, you must really miss him

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