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Old
12-16-2010, 09:32 AM
  #26
swimmer77
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I thought Picard was playing really good in the role given but last night was a disappointment the way he covered for Subban on the first goal. I am disappointed in his shot. For some reason I thought it would be better than what it is.

At this point though I agree with others that Weber needs to come back into the lineup somehow. I agree with trying Subban on the top pairing with Hamrlik who is going to be more familiar with a babysitting role. From there I'm not sure but agree the Gorges / Gill pairing could be split up and moving Spacek are options.

Hamrlik / Subban
The offence should get good support from these two and Hamrlik can maybe lessen the risk of PK Subban. If he could do that it would maybe boost the confidence of PK.

Spacek / Gorges
Both d-men have been playing against the top lines. Spacek moves back to his natural side which with any luck would help his play.

Gill / Weber
Put a puck mover with Gill and someone with a shot from the point for offensive support.

I'd be surprised if Martin tries this though. As much as fans want to complain about the old and slow Czechs I checked back through some game summaries. In the last two months the Czechs when on the ice together have allowed only 4 even strength goals. Two of those goals were allowed when the game was basically out of reach. Another two were allowed in two other games that the Canadiens won. And they are playing constantly against the top lines and contributing offensively.

The Gill and Gorges pairing have been on ice for the most ES strength goals during that same period. And neither player contributes much offensively. Odd that they can be so good on the PK but at even strength not so good. Maybe it just proves they are both weak transitional players.

Subban and Picard of course have been on ice too but at least are compensating with some offensive input.

IMO the second pairing is what's hurting the most right now at even strength.


Last edited by swimmer77: 12-16-2010 at 09:36 AM. Reason: Stuff
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Old
12-16-2010, 09:33 AM
  #27
googlymoogly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
He is a #6-#7 d-man who needs to sit a game once in a while.

In the meantine there is a tall big guy in Colorado who is playing over 20 minutes a game and has a +11 in his last 17 games .....
I still can't believe how they wouldn't give O'Byrne breaks. Seriously the other Montreal D especially Spacek and Picard made more mistakes than Ryan.

Montreal seems to have evaluation brain cramps at times.

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Old
12-16-2010, 09:33 AM
  #28
llamateizer
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Originally Posted by Smoke Monster View Post
In two cases where Subban gave up the puck to the flyers, Picard failed to prevent the goals when he should have. I'm not excusing Subban, those were weak plays giving up the puck to the opposing team, especially the second one. But Picard on both plays was terrible and useless. In the first case Carter simply skated from the neutral ice, into the habs zone, and then proceeded to go around Picard like he was a pylon and scored. In the second case Picard should have been in front of the habs net next to the Flyer player, but nooooo he was standing at the other end of the zone. Wow! I really blame Picard for those two goals. If Harmlik or Markov or any normal defenseman was playing with Subban those goals would not have happened.
I agree that Picard made errors, but the responsible is Subban, if he made a correct pass, Picard wouldn't made that error.

Picard made a good play on plekanec's goal, you should've talked about it.
Subban made a good play that lead to Gionta's goal.

P.S. is the purpous of your thread is really Picard's rating?

Picard is a decent 7th defensemen.
but he is playing as a 4th defensemen. Gorges is playing injured and is paired with Gill.

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Old
12-16-2010, 09:36 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by googlymoogly View Post
I still can't believe how they wouldn't give O'Byrne breaks. Seriously the other Montreal D especially Spacek and Picard made more mistakes than Ryan.

Montreal seems to have evaluation brain cramps at times.
Especially when you know that you will potentially loose 3 d-man on the UFA market next July, and that you have to live with Spacek....

O'Byrne was not given any opportunities to get confident on this team, ever.

Kudos to the Avs !

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Old
12-16-2010, 09:43 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
Yet Ottawa dropped him and Montreal was the only team interested in him.

He's terrible. Loses one on one battles consistently.

The sooner he is replaced, the better.
And yet he made it to the NHL and is a + player.... but yeah I guess San Jose and several other teams wouldn't take him as a #6 or #7. He isn't terrible, he's as good as a #6 or #7 is expected to be. Maybe not for a top 5 defensive team but hey we have a 3rd D out there in Plekanec most times.

I'm not going to deny I'd prefer to see Weber out there but just like the praise for Picard is way too much the hate is laughable. He's a #6 for many teams and a #7 for a lot as well. Just because he sucked in Ottawa doesn't really mean anything. Spacek was good in Buffalo, it doesn't seem to mean much. They're here now and playing the way they're playing with us. Picard is playing the best hockey he's played even if he isn't that good, he isn't expected to be. Spacek is playing his worst. How they played on other teams really isn't relevant especially when you're trying to say a guy on our team who is a + player sucks. Really he hasn't sucked he's made mistakes sure but he hasn't sucked. He just hasn't been incredible either.

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Old
12-16-2010, 09:46 AM
  #31
googlymoogly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Especially when you know that you will potentially loose 3 d-man on the UFA market next July, and that you have to live with Spacek....

O'Byrne was not given any opportunities to get confident on this team, ever.

Kudos to the Avs !
But 6'5" 235 lb mobile hitting denfensemen are a dime a dozen.

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Old
12-16-2010, 09:46 AM
  #32
Frozenice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Especially when you know that you will potentially loose 3 d-man on the UFA market next July, and that you have to live with Spacek....

O'Byrne was not given any opportunities to get confident on this team, ever.

Kudos to the Avs !
I think it was a good trade for both teams. We got a player we wanted and traded away one that didn't seem to be a part of our future.

----

I like Picard but he needs playing time and a chance to blossom as a player. It's tough being in his situation, if Markov was healthy he would be sitting and in time he probably will have to fight with Nash, Weber and Tinordi to keep his roster spot.

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Old
12-16-2010, 09:48 AM
  #33
Bullsmith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Especially when you know that you will potentially loose 3 d-man on the UFA market next July, and that you have to live with Spacek....

O'Byrne was not given any opportunities to get confident on this team, ever.

Kudos to the Avs !
Why do you come to the Habs boards?

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Old
12-16-2010, 09:50 AM
  #34
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I never liked his ability anytime he had the puck since the begining of the season. It's like he's butter hands with the puck. At least he was ok(ish) devensively up until now.

Now he's reminding me of Patrick Traverse. And that is definitely not good.

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Old
12-16-2010, 09:52 AM
  #35
The Right Price
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I was skeptical of him at first but he won me over with his simple play after the first 5 or so games. However, in the last 5-7 games his game has declined a lot and IMO we should play Weber instead.

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Old
12-16-2010, 10:10 AM
  #36
Joe Cole
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Simply a place holder until something better comes around. Absolutely nothing special and no upside. What you see, is what you will always get.

He is decent occasionally.

Weber is not an upgrade defensively.

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Old
12-16-2010, 10:36 AM
  #37
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He's ok for a 7th D-man, but I can't understand why we don't put Spacek back on the left side and use Weber instead.

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Old
12-16-2010, 10:47 AM
  #38
expos4ever
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Trade for D...

I think that in light of the shortcomings of the teams' defensive squad recently (Subban, Picard, Spacek, et.al.) as well as key injuries (Markov), Habs management will need acquire some veteran help on the trade market if we are going to compete for the playoffs.

Obvious targets include Bieksa and Regehr... Any other obvious targets??

If any help comes from inside the Org, it could be with Matt Carle, but not sure that would be a net upgrade.

I would consider trading one of the good young F's (Maxwell, White, Palushaj) in HAM to shore up the D.

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Old
12-16-2010, 11:01 AM
  #39
Whitesnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
Why do you come to the Habs boards?
You can diss any poster you want, but you don't think that this subject is not a legitimate one? Older D's that might be leaving, really thin on numbers AND talent on immediate prospects in Hamilton (unless Carle surprises everybody and Nash continues his surprising progression), Spacek who while not leaving next year might not improving as well, not a whole lot of interesting d-men on the UFA market that we might be interesting while some of them will sign with their team prior to going to market etc....

Sorry but while everything is always questionable, the D is immensely questionable and determinant as to where this team is headed in the near future. And it's not by giving up on a young, physical one that you take care of the subject.

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Old
12-16-2010, 11:04 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expos4ever View Post
I think that in light of the shortcomings of the teams' defensive squad recently (Subban, Picard, Spacek, et.al.) as well as key injuries (Markov), Habs management will need acquire some veteran help on the trade market if we are going to compete for the playoffs.

Obvious targets include Bieksa and Regehr... Any other obvious targets??

If any help comes from inside the Org, it could be with Matt Carle, but not sure that would be a net upgrade.

I would consider trading one of the good young F's (Maxwell, White, Palushaj) in HAM to shore up the D.
I agree but I don't Maxwell, Plaushaj or White are going to bring a d'man that will help and I have zero confidence in Gauthier as a GM.

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Old
12-16-2010, 11:07 AM
  #41
Whitesnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
I think it was a good trade for both teams. We got a player we wanted and traded away one that didn't seem to be a part of our future.

----

I like Picard but he needs playing time and a chance to blossom as a player. It's tough being in his situation, if Markov was healthy he would be sitting and in time he probably will have to fight with Nash, Weber and Tinordi to keep his roster spot.
I think that there's a difference between liking the deal and still wonder who will end up playing D next year. I like Bournival. I think there's a world of possibilities as far as his development is concerned. But it doesn't change the fact that we are low on good d-men prospects with everything that is coming our way next year. Unless you sign Gill, Hamrlik at half the price and so on.....While you fill the spots, you still don't have the possibility to have younger guys playing which in the end helps you as far as having players with the best shape possible all year long AND having the best shape possible salary cap wise.

The deal was fine based on how the org. used O'Byrne. Doesn't mean that they took the right decision by prefering Picard over O'Byrne...As far as ceiling and as far as type of d-man. Punishing d-men are tough to find. So tough that we decided to draft one in the 1st round even if his all-around abilities might not have worth a 1st round pick after all.

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Old
12-16-2010, 12:26 PM
  #42
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
I think it was a good trade for both teams. We got a player we wanted and traded away one that didn't seem to be a part of our future.

----

I like Picard but he needs playing time and a chance to blossom as a player. It's tough being in his situation, if Markov was healthy he would be sitting and in time he probably will have to fight with Nash, Weber and Tinordi to keep his roster spot.
Picard is no longer a prospect, he's a depth defenseman. he doesn't need "time to blossom" either he plays well or he sits...it's pro hockey not Bantam house league.

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Old
12-16-2010, 12:29 PM
  #43
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expos4ever View Post
I think that in light of the shortcomings of the teams' defensive squad recently (Subban, Picard, Spacek, et.al.) as well as key injuries (Markov), Habs management will need acquire some veteran help on the trade market if we are going to compete for the playoffs.

Obvious targets include Bieksa and Regehr... Any other obvious targets??

If any help comes from inside the Org, it could be with Matt Carle, but not sure that would be a net upgrade.

I would consider trading one of the good young F's (Maxwell, White, Palushaj) in HAM to shore up the D.
Bieksa makes a ton of sense...would come cheap(mid round pick?), RH shot, mobile and a mean streak.

Reghr would cost a ton I think, if Calgary trades him they are in full rebuild and they will want a 1st and a stud(LeBlanc Tinordi) in return. He's not as mobile as Bieksa but better defensively and more physical but he's cost a ton more.

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Old
12-16-2010, 12:57 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Bieksa makes a ton of sense...would come cheap(mid round pick?), RH shot, mobile and a mean streak.

Regh[e]r would cost a ton I think, if Calgary trades him they are in full rebuild and they will want a 1st and a stud(LeBlanc Tinordi) in return. He's not as mobile as Bieksa but better defensively and more physical but he's cost a ton more.
You're likely right about the cost difference between the two Ds. I just wouldn't want to pay any real assets out of our future stock.

If Bieksa is available at the cost you suggest, I don't see how it could hurt. He may have brain cramps, but so does Spacek, and at least he wouldn't be hospitalized by Clarke Effing MacArthur.

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Old
12-16-2010, 03:06 PM
  #45
THE HOFF
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
I think he's been great for us, well above expectations. His play has declined greatly over the past few games, but somehow PK has been worse. Then again, to be fair to Picard, the only dman who has consistently played awesome is Hamrlik.
I agree with this...

I honestly think we don't have a lot of ''80 games/season'' defensemen... they are bound to have ups and downs (gill, hammer, spacek, picard, subban) ... like you said hamrlik has been great... him and gorges can pull 65 good games out of 82.

Picard has been playing within his limits... and to be fair he was exposed to better players in the last game... If people get offended when carter scores on picard every now and then the season is going to be long. In toronto he got a -2 mostly because of subban ... he doesn't look lost or out of place... he's in a bad stretch and he's unlucky.

every player had a bad stretch this year on D ... but people getting on Picard's back after 2-3 bad games is something we all expected, really. The HF hyenas have been tracking him from day 1.

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Old
12-16-2010, 03:25 PM
  #46
Monctonscout
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I agree with this...

I honestly think we don't have a lot of ''80 games/season'' defensemen... they are bound to have ups and downs (gill, hammer, spacek, picard, subban) ... like you said hamrlik has been great... him and gorges can pull 65 good games out of 82.

Picard has been playing within his limits... and to be fair he was exposed to better players in the last game... If people get offended when carter scores on picard every now and then the season is going to be long. In toronto he got a -2 mostly because of subban ... he doesn't look lost or out of place... he's in a bad stretch and he's unlucky.

every player had a bad stretch this year on D ... but people getting on Picard's back after 2-3 bad games is something we all expected, really. The HF hyenas have been tracking him from day 1.

PIcard is a #6-7 d-man, just some had him pegged as better or with more upside.

The -2 for him and Subban in Toronto, both goals Auld was weak on, so you have to take taht with a grain of salt.

If we can get Bieksa cheap, I'd send Weber down and use Picard as #7. Plays PK with Gill or Hamrlik and Bieksa with Spacek.

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Old
12-16-2010, 03:41 PM
  #47
Kirk Muller
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Originally Posted by DDIHH View Post
He's ok for a 7th D-man, but I can't understand why we don't put Spacek back on the left side and use Weber instead.
Because Martin is too scared to give it a shot. He has used Hammer and Spacek as the shut down pairing. While i believe Hammmer is what makes it a good shut down pairing, it seems JM thinks its more a package. I personally think Subban would be better in that role as a he more tools than Spacek and frankly outside of this recent stretch, has been a far superior defenseman to Spacek this year.

I also wonder if he is afraid to see a Weber and Spacek pairing as both are pretty weak down low.

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Old
12-16-2010, 05:00 PM
  #48
Kriss E
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I agree but I don't Maxwell, Plaushaj or White are going to bring a d'man that will help and I have zero confidence in Gauthier as a GM.
And why is that exactly??..

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Old
12-16-2010, 05:18 PM
  #49
jamz
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I'd like these pairings:

Hamrlik - Subban
Gill - Gorges
Spacek - Weber

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12-16-2010, 05:30 PM
  #50
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We can talk about Picard or Spacek, but simply put this team needs some kind of replacement for Markov. His minutes, points, and presence are not something that can be filled on a nightly basis by any of our current D. Players like Kaberle/Pitkanen/Wisniewski or other offensive types would be the best route right now. I thought this team was at it's best this season when they had Markov/Gorges - Hamrlik/Spacek - Gill/Subban as partners, so I'm hoping PG is exploring who is available.

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