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How would you rate Picard?

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Old
12-17-2010, 05:22 AM
  #76
ECWHSWI
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Originally Posted by husamus156 View Post
lol no
the biggest weakness is superstar plays.

look tonight. he played simple. he lobbed the puck when in danger and it worked
I feel he didn't really deserved the 2 minors penalty. Its one of his bests games this season
.


Funny how its never subban's fault.
it his pairing defense.

Look at markov, he played with allot of players and was good.
Agreed, the best example of this was his penalty on Ryder... up to now in a case like this he'd try to make some sort of heroic move to stop Ryder... now he saw he was beat and instead of making some dumb move to save his ass, he stopped the guy and took the two minutes.


well, at least its not JM fault anymore

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Old
12-17-2010, 05:30 AM
  #77
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I think he would benefit playing with a better partner for sure. Tonight, Picard gave away the puck a couple of times and was caught out of position more than once, giving Boston a 2 on 1 opportunity because of his slow recovery. PK was left alone more than once tonight. If he had Hamrlik, he would be more comfortable, I believe.

Picard's problem is usually not his positioning. Picard gets in trouble when he tries to manage the puck. He's not good at that. The faster he gets rid of it, the better for him. It's when he tries to be fancy that he gets burned.

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12-17-2010, 05:39 AM
  #78
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If the Habs had Markov then I think Subban could be paired with a veteran.......

Markov - Spacek
Hamrlik - Subban

...........that would have been great but obviously it ain't gonna happen.

I don't think Martin will break up the Czechs until they really start to falter. I posted this stat in another thread that in the last two months they have been on ice together at ES for only four opponents' goals. They are playing against the top lines every game. PK Subban is not. I think Martin wants to keep it that way for now. And if PK would pair with Hamrlik then he'd be facing the top lines. PK has not been good when out on the ice with top players.

If PK can continue to improve defensively I would rather split up Gorges and Gill who have struggled at ES and move Subban to the second pairing with Gorges. Then PK would be facing better players. And then get Weber into the lineup with Gill.

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Old
12-17-2010, 07:10 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Andrei Kostitsyn View Post
I like Picard and I don't think that he deserves to be taken out of the line-up for now. He's been surprisingly consistent and rarely makes a mistake. Good bottom-pairing guy from what I've seen so far this season.

However, I agree. I think Subban would benefit from a better partner, plain and simple. PK makes a lot of mistakes, but he's a lot more effective when he's playing his game despite that - the famous "high risk/high reward" cliche definitely applies to him. He just needs to be paired with someone who can cover for those mistakes effectively.

I like your pairings. I wish PK and Gorges didn't play the same side, because I think they'd be a great match.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't Gorges play well on both sides? I think he's mostly playing RD for us due to the lack of LD's. I may be wrong, but I swear he played LD when he started here.

-------

On another note, I think Picard is trying to be more conservative too. From my knowledge of Picard, pre-Habs, he was jumping into the play a lot more, hence a bigger amount of points. I think he's trying to be become and more complete player and at the very worst, he's been a good bottom-pairing guy.

I honestly see a lot of similiarites in his development as I do with Gorges. Gorges came here, a lot of people didn't really like him when I did. Then he continued to improve. He was an "extra d", then a "bottom pairing guy", then a "second pairing guy" then a "top NHL stay at home dman." I'd say he fits somewhere inbetween the last two, but that's a pretty damn good player that we've all grown to love. I think Picard can do the same thing.

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Old
12-17-2010, 07:24 AM
  #80
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Yet Picard was +2 last night and has been a + player all season. I know that +\- is not the best stat to evaluate someone, but when he's one the ice, we score at even strength. He can make some weak play, but it never cost goals! He's also very disciplined, unlike Subban. He play simple and does nothing that could put him out of the line-up. Picard"s play is one good surprise this season.

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12-17-2010, 07:46 AM
  #81
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The blind love for Subban on this site is ridiculous. He is currently a liability who has avery limited understanding of the Pro game.

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Old
12-17-2010, 08:19 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
The blind love for Subban on this site is ridiculous. He is currently a liability who has avery limited understanding of the Pro game.
Wow I hope you are a leaf fan. Cause if you support the habs I think its time to find another team.
I agree with the above poster who said Martin will keep Hammer & Spacek together. They play against the other teams top lines and rarely get scored on. If we want to go far in the play-offs then Picard will be a liability. Hopefully after a full year P.K. is more mature, but we will need a strong partner to make a run at the cup. Right now with MaxPac we have 4 strong lines. We can trade for a vetran dman to play with P.K. for the play-offs. With Markov very iffy to come back here next year we can even look long term for a No. 4 dman, who knows.

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Old
12-17-2010, 08:19 AM
  #83
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Without analysing if he's Subban's biggest problem, I have to say that Picard looks nervous and tentative during the past 4 games. He surprised me early on but he's showing cracks in his armour lately.

Gauthier has cap space. He needs to pick up solid two way D to complement Subban and to help lower the minutes played by our three seniors (Hammer, Spacek, Gill).

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Old
12-17-2010, 08:24 AM
  #84
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Picard isn't the problem and if it wasn't for him at times saving Subban's rear it would be even worse. PK is the kind of D that takes a lot of offensive chances, we know that and expect mistakes will happen we gotta live with it but let's not blame his partner for that it's just silly if you ask me

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Old
12-17-2010, 08:27 AM
  #85
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Subban biggest weakness : his decision making.

... easily improvable with time...

Period.

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Old
12-17-2010, 08:43 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smithson876 View Post
Want to know what would fix all of this?
Well, there is one constantly recurring issue. There is one slot being rotated primarily by weber and picard. Two solid defenders, but they just don't fit. Trade for a solid defensive vet to play along PK and we are laughing! I really like wiesnewski.
The wizz is a defensive nightmare, you don't like what you see denfensively from Picard, you won't get any better from Wisniewski. He's comparable to a healthy Sheldon "Pylon" Souray.

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Old
12-17-2010, 08:45 AM
  #87
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Last edited by andy28: 12-17-2010 at 12:52 PM.
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Old
12-17-2010, 09:26 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by CHamps View Post
Hear me out on this one.

I like Picard just fine as a number 5/6 guy for the money he's making and assets we lost for him (none). But he is not likely to be more than a bottom pairing player at any point (short or long term).

PK on the other hand has potential to be a top pairing d-man (and much more). Not only that but he plays the type of game that could benefit from a calming influence who will be there when PK makes mistakes (which all players who are game-changers make, you cant have high reward without high risk especially being a young "PMD") and also be a mentor on the ice so PK makes fewer of those mistakes.

Hamrlik-Subban
Spacek-Weber/Picard
Gill-Gorges

We should run these pairings as it will do several things:
  • Give Subban our best defenseman (with Markov out) to play with
  • Move Spacek back to his natural side and reduce his ice-time/pressure (PK and Hamr can play a lot more than PK and Picard)
  • Weber has shown he deserves to play, while Picard is showing he could use a rotation out every once in a while
  • With Weber in, gives us two L/R handed pairings on D, something we haven't had in a while
  • Hamr and Subban show chemistry on the PP

Ideally PK would have someone like Pronger to play with, but the closest we'll get for a while is Tinordi.
Picard has been solid at times, but the last 2 games he's really struggled. He was directly responsible for a goal last night and the 1st one Wednesday.

I'd like to see Weber in there next game, he deserves to play given how well he's done, if only for a game here and there.

In an ideal world we could add Bieksa and send Weber down and use Picard as #7.

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Old
12-17-2010, 09:45 AM
  #89
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The problem is Picard. He was brought in to be a number 7. The issue is that out Number 1 went down and he is being replaced in the lineup by Picard.

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Old
12-17-2010, 09:56 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by googlymoogly View Post
I still can't believe how they wouldn't give O'Byrne breaks. Seriously the other Montreal D especially Spacek and Picard made more mistakes than Ryan.

Montreal seems to have evaluation brain cramps at times.
Now that Pylon Picard is a regular defenseman on the habs averaging I guess around 15 minutes of ice time per game I never thought I'd regret Ryan O'Byrne being traded.


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Old
12-17-2010, 10:10 AM
  #91
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Gill and Gorges haven't looked as good at even strength lately break them up for a few games (keep them together on the PK still) and put in Weber until we trade for another defenseman because Picard shouldn't be a top-6 defenseman on a playoff team.

Hamr - Spacek
Gorges - Subban
Gill - Weber

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Old
12-17-2010, 10:17 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Yet Picard < O'Byrne.... and that's what the choice they made.
Exactly, Picard is performing as we were told he would. Gauthier signed him and gave him every chance to make this team, even ahead of OB, in spite of his performance early at camp.

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Old
12-17-2010, 10:20 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by walsy37 View Post
The problem is Picard. He was brought in to be a number 7. The issue is that out Number 1 went down and he is being replaced in the lineup by Picard.
I thought that #1 was being replaced by a combination of Gill/Georges and Hammer/Spacek? Aren't Subban and Picard playing the #5 and #6 roles as they've done most of the year?

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Old
12-17-2010, 10:36 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by AllCanadienFan View Post
I thought that #1 was being replaced by a combination of Gill/Georges and Hammer/Spacek? Aren't Subban and Picard playing the #5 and #6 roles as they've done most of the year?
Subban has an average TOI/G of 20:24, those are not #5-6 minutes, Picard has 16:02 which is more along those lines.

And Subban's dropped in the last few games, he was much higher before he got benched (his last game in that period was over 25 mins)

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Old
12-17-2010, 11:38 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't Gorges play well on both sides? I think he's mostly playing RD for us due to the lack of LD's. I may be wrong, but I swear he played LD when he started here.
It's possible, I honestly don't remember. If he's equally good on the left, I'd love to see a Gorges-Subban pairing and see how it works out.

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Old
12-17-2010, 11:41 AM
  #96
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I think Picard is a coach's favourite, just like Pyatt...

Please, put Weber in the line-up

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Old
12-17-2010, 11:57 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't Gorges play well on both sides? I think he's mostly playing RD for us due to the lack of LD's. I may be wrong, but I swear he played LD when he started here.

-------

On another note, I think Picard is trying to be more conservative too. From my knowledge of Picard, pre-Habs, he was jumping into the play a lot more, hence a bigger amount of points. I think he's trying to be become and more complete player and at the very worst, he's been a good bottom-pairing guy.

I honestly see a lot of similiarites in his development as I do with Gorges. Gorges came here, a lot of people didn't really like him when I did. Then he continued to improve. He was an "extra d", then a "bottom pairing guy", then a "second pairing guy" then a "top NHL stay at home dman." I'd say he fits somewhere inbetween the last two, but that's a pretty damn good player that we've all grown to love. I think Picard can do the same thing.
Yeah, Gorges is a LD playing on his off side.

I'm sure he's used to it by now, but I cannot help but think he couldn't move back.

I assume Martin's logic of not playing both Subban and Weber is that they're both going to have growing pains and on an average night, a team can recover from one boneheaded play, but if they're both playing, then you have two.

That said, I really think it's time to move Gorges to the left, pair him with Subban (that would be our top unit IMO) and let Gill play defense for Weber.

People need to cut the hyperbole though. Picard is a solid citizen back there. He's not spectacular, but he's a good player. He's a bottom pair guy on an average team, likely a 7th on a good team. Montreal has aspirations to be a good team, so let him sit for a bit, but that doesn't mean he's a pylon. It just means Weber has more upside to contribute.

Picard isn't best suited to playing the defensive role and covering for a pinching partner a lot. Hall Gill and Josh Gorges are both two of the best guys in the league at 2 on 1s... Put one of them with each of the riverboat gamblers and I think we're insulated against their mistakes.

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Old
12-17-2010, 12:00 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
I think Picard is a coach's favourite, just like Pyatt...

Please, put Weber in the line-up
Martin would never have 2 young players paired together, he should cause Weber played really well and didn't deserve to be taken out of the lineup especially after we were on a winning streak

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Old
12-17-2010, 12:02 PM
  #99
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You only get better by playing, and making mistakes, and all of our defense is prone to this. I don't see what the big deal is, he has played better than I thought he could and he's learning from it.

Spacek is the only real problem on our backend, and if our GM can find a solution things won't be so magnified. We expect too much, let them make a mistake and get better.

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Old
12-17-2010, 12:06 PM
  #100
Lucius
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Martin would never have 2 young players paired together, he should cause Weber played really well and didn't deserve to be taken out of the lineup especially after we were on a winning streak
Of course they've never be paired together. They're both right shots and both offensive, that would be suicidal.

But pairing one with Hamr and one with Spacek or one with Gill and one with Gorges would be ideal.

EDIT:

Actually, I have it. Honestly, these would be amazing pairs (if radical):

Hamrlik - Gorges (shutdown)
Spacek - Subban (Spacek would look way better on his natural side)
Gill - Weber (Weber won't get caught with Hal to help, would also allow them to rotate out if Weber is being physically dominated down low)

These would be some awesome pairs.


Last edited by Lucius: 12-17-2010 at 12:14 PM.
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