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Old
12-17-2010, 01:41 PM
  #101
LastRide
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For being an offensive defenseman and rushing up the ice constantly. PK's number should be better than what they are. If your going to play that role, you need to finnish. Leaving the other D-man hung out to dry is the negative part of pinching up ice. Nothing wrong with playing that style offensively if you have the talent, but he needs to put up better numbers.

Picard is what he is. Quietly does his job. He's not the player you expect much from. He fills a hole until we get Markov back, or make a trade for a better D-Man. Habs need to replace the points they lose with Markov out.


Last edited by LastRide: 12-17-2010 at 01:48 PM.
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Old
12-17-2010, 02:21 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
Of course they've never be paired together. They're both right shots and both offensive, that would be suicidal.

But pairing one with Hamr and one with Spacek or one with Gill and one with Gorges would be ideal.

EDIT:

Actually, I have it. Honestly, these would be amazing pairs (if radical):

Hamrlik - Gorges (shutdown)
Spacek - Subban (Spacek would look way better on his natural side)
Gill - Weber (Weber won't get caught with Hal to help, would also allow them to rotate out if Weber is being physically dominated down low)

These would be some awesome pairs.
This one scares me. I think I'd rather Subban with Hamrlik. Might work, though.

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Old
12-17-2010, 02:22 PM
  #103
One Man Rock Band
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Originally Posted by Strik_IX View Post
Subban has an average TOI/G of 20:24, those are not #5-6 minutes, Picard has 16:02 which is more along those lines.

And Subban's dropped in the last few games, he was much higher before he got benched (his last game in that period was over 25 mins)
Subban averages that much time due to PP minutes. Where does he rank in ES minutes? I can't imagine him being higher than 4th or 5th.

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Old
12-17-2010, 03:28 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Subban averages that much time due to PP minutes. Where does he rank in ES minutes? I can't imagine him being higher than 4th or 5th.
ES TOI / G

Hamrlik
Gorges
Gill
Spacek
Subban
Picard

PP TOI / G

Subban
Hamrlik
Weber
Spacek

SH TOI / G

Gorges
Gill
Spacek
Hamrlik
Subban

His total minutes get inflated with the powerplay and the fact that Markov and Hamrlik were both out the first two games. Last night he played a grand total of 14 min.

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Old
12-17-2010, 04:26 PM
  #105
Aurel Joliat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Martin would never have 2 young players paired together, he should cause Weber played really well and didn't deserve to be taken out of the lineup especially after we were on a winning streak
I never said they should play together ! We only have 2 right D it would be nive to have them separated...

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Old
12-17-2010, 04:40 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
I never said they should play together ! We only have 2 right D it would be nive to have them separated...
Amen. I rate Picard very poorly, but he's not looking as bad as I expected he would (let's hear it for exceeding extremely low expectations!) He is, however, definitely making PK look worse in turn. I don't know how much of it can be attributed to someone playing the "off" side, but I can't think of any other team that has only 2 RH defensemen and choose to play them together (I'm sure there must be one or two).

I really don't get the benefit to PK's development from baby-sitting someone like Picard. Should he not have a defensive rock with some puck skills working with him (Hamrlik)? I thought that'd be a no-brainer coming into this season, allowing him to "explore the space" (more cowbell) but also get used to how veteran 2-way guys make their decisions and get the puck up the ice.

If I was forced to use both Spacek and Picard, they'd end up sucking up the extra 15 mins on the 3rd pairing. Maybe they (JM/PG) see a near future where Spacek and Hamrlik are both gone, and maybe they're hoping PK-Picard will play together for years? Not that it would make sense, but... why else? Squeezing the last miles out of those vets in Markov's absence because they don't trust PK to play on the top pairing with Hamrlik outside of PP situations right now?

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Old
12-17-2010, 05:14 PM
  #107
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i said it in game 1 and ill say it game 30, ..i like the guy, but i still think no matter what, he is number 7, the team should be focusing on playing weber, not picard, picard is a safety to me.

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Old
12-17-2010, 05:34 PM
  #108
FiveForDrawingBlood
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Montreal should find a better defenseman to pair with Subban. So, he can take more chances, his skills are scary good. Many more goals would come our way. Everytime Subban makes a mistake now it is magnified because he has minor league partner.

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12-17-2010, 05:41 PM
  #109
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I am going to be real careful as to not offend anyone. Picard is an AHL defenseman, i thank him for filling in, during our good streak with Markov out, but it's time to find an NHL defenseman to step in. Hell i would take Henry before him, if they are going to go around him the way they do, might as well be able to drop the gloves once in a while.
So thank you Alex, it was fun, but now i would reather see Weber play full time or as i for-mentioned.

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Old
12-17-2010, 07:27 PM
  #110
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Old
12-17-2010, 08:29 PM
  #111
ECWHSWI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Amen. I rate Picard very poorly, but he's not looking as bad as I expected he would (let's hear it for exceeding extremely low expectations!) He is, however, definitely making PK look worse in turn. I don't know how much of it can be attributed to someone playing the "off" side, but I can't think of any other team that has only 2 RH defensemen and choose to play them together (I'm sure there must be one or two).

I really don't get the benefit to PK's development from baby-sitting someone like Picard. Should he not have a defensive rock with some puck skills working with him (Hamrlik)? I thought that'd be a no-brainer coming into this season, allowing him to "explore the space" (more cowbell) but also get used to how veteran 2-way guys make their decisions and get the puck up the ice.

If I was forced to use both Spacek and Picard, they'd end up sucking up the extra 15 mins on the 3rd pairing. Maybe they (JM/PG) see a near future where Spacek and Hamrlik are both gone, and maybe they're hoping PK-Picard will play together for years? Not that it would make sense, but... why else? Squeezing the last miles out of those vets in Markov's absence because they don't trust PK to play on the top pairing with Hamrlik outside of PP situations right now?
Isnt Picard a leftie ? so, who's the RH playing with Subban ?

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Old
12-18-2010, 01:22 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Isnt Picard a leftie ? so, who's the RH playing with Subban ?
You know what? Brain fart (read: high). Discussing Picard, at the same time thinking about where Weber would fit into the lineup instead, mixing up which was RH/LH for a second, and proceeding to discuss Picard without catching it before hitting submit. Guess there's no easy excuse for either of them then.

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Old
12-18-2010, 04:54 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiveForDrawingBlood View Post
Montreal should find a better defenseman to pair with Subban. So, he can take more chances, his skills are scary good. Many more goals would come our way. Everytime Subban makes a mistake now it is magnified because he has minor league partner.
He needs to learn how/where to pass the pick before he worries about anything else.

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12-18-2010, 08:49 AM
  #114
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The Habs have had a chance to see what Picard can do. He was great by Picard standards in the beginning but now to me has not shown enough to keep his spot with Weber waiting in the wings. It's almost like O'Byrne got traded and Picard got too comfy. Or maybe the Subban circus has him rattled too.

I honestly think JM is "stalling" for as long as possible to put Subban up against the top lines. Subban faired very well with Hamrlik last year against top competition. But the two Czechs for the most part have been stellar at ES against top lines. Hopefully that trend continues but if it doesn't then I think JM will make a move to put Subban with a vet.

Last year against Pittsburgh and with Spacek out Martin was using a pairing of MAB and O'Byrne so he's rolling the dice with Picard and Subban together now. JM is doing what he can to shield that pairing from top players while they gain some NHL experience IMO.

I'd prefer though JM gets Weber in the lineup and Picard out but that would take some jostling to accommodate two right handers something JM seems very hesitant to do. But it seems very doable from my living room chair by splitting up Gorges and Gill. LOL

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Old
12-18-2010, 09:10 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
The Habs have had a chance to see what Picard can do. He was great by Picard standards in the beginning but now to me has not shown enough to keep his spot with Weber waiting in the wings. It's almost like O'Byrne got traded and Picard got too comfy. Or maybe the Subban circus has him rattled too.

I honestly think JM is "stalling" for as long as possible to put Subban up against the top lines. Subban faired very well with Hamrlik last year against top competition. But the two Czechs for the most part have been stellar at ES against top lines. Hopefully that trend continues but if it doesn't then I think JM will make a move to put Subban with a vet.

Last year against Pittsburgh and with Spacek out Martin was using a pairing of MAB and O'Byrne so he's rolling the dice with Picard and Subban together now. JM is doing what he can to shield that pairing from top players while they gain some NHL experience IMO.

I'd prefer though JM gets Weber in the lineup and Picard out but that would take some jostling to accommodate two right handers something JM seems very hesitant to do. But it seems very doable from my living room chair by splitting up Gorges and Gill. LOL
Yes Gorges Subban and Gill Weber. Weber already broke up a few two on ones when he played. His defensive coverage has really improved since last year. If he is going to be kept in the stands then send him back down and bring up Henry to sit, Weber needs to play and improve he's the future.

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Old
12-18-2010, 09:26 AM
  #116
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To me it's criminal that we have a talent like Weber, and he's being sat in favor of Picard.

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12-18-2010, 09:33 AM
  #117
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Picard doesn't impress me. I'd rather have Komisarek (at Picard's pay grade).

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12-18-2010, 09:34 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
To me it's criminal that we have a talent like Weber, and he's being sat in favor of Picard.
At least, we still have Weber in our team. Still time to open Martin's eyes and turn it around. Far from being criminal unlike seeing other finishing their development elsewhere because keeping guys like Picard....

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Old
12-18-2010, 09:40 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
At least, we still have Weber in our team. Still time to open Martin's eyes and turn it around. Far from being criminal unlike seeing other finishing their development elsewhere because keeping guys like Picard....
I know we don't see eye to eye often but here ! You are spot on !

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Old
12-18-2010, 10:12 AM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
At least, we still have Weber in our team. Still time to open Martin's eyes and turn it around. Far from being criminal unlike seeing other finishing their development elsewhere because keeping guys like Picard....
*cough* O'Byrne *cough*

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Old
12-18-2010, 10:15 AM
  #121
One Man Rock Band
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Picard doesn't impress me. I'd rather have Komisarek (at Picard's pay grade).
And I'd rather have Lidstrom at Picards pay grade, Doughty at Subbans pay grade, and Chara at Gills pay grade. Life doesn't work like that though.

The more I think, the more we may be over-reacting. We always botch at JM for switching the forward lines so often, but he's giving the D-pairs chances to rebound. Subban/Picard were very good up until the last handful of games, there's nothing saying they can't get back there. There both pretty young and will have ups & downs.

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12-18-2010, 10:51 AM
  #122
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I think Weber and Picard should be rotated into the lineup, its time to give Weber another chance.

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Old
12-18-2010, 12:04 PM
  #123
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I think Weber and Picard should be rotated into the lineup, its time to give Weber another chance.
Agreed.

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Old
12-18-2010, 12:18 PM
  #124
montreal
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
To me it's criminal that we have a talent like Weber, and he's being sat in favor of Picard.
So you think they should be using Weber on his off D position? Weber was told to work on his defensive game, do you think it would be good for his development to use him on the opposite side that he's been playing or perhahps that doesn't matter, just throw him out there and see what happens?

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12-18-2010, 12:26 PM
  #125
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To me he is a #6 on a bad-to-mediocre team and a #7 on a playoff team.

He shows flashes where he can be a solid contributor and perhaps be more than that, but then he'll make some glaring mistakes. In my opinion Subban should be playing with an experienced guy who can make up for his mistakes at times and let him play his offensive style even more effectively. Picard is almost nullifying PK's offensive jam, or if PK does decide to make a high-risk pass or play, it ends up completely back firing on him because his partner doesn't have the talent or awareness to make up for it.

Idealy we use this, IMO:

Hamrlik-Subban
Gill-Gorges
Spacek-Weber

If we can snatch up a solid Top 4 guy than all the better.

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