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Carolina Hurricanes @ Atlanta Stupid Little Hurricanes Dec 16, 2010, 7:00 P.M.

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Old
12-18-2010, 11:54 AM
  #251
Blueline Bomber
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There's finding fault, and then there's placing blame on the wrong person. Blaming him for getting 1st line minutes is ridiculous, because he (like most hockey players) have little to no say as to where they're put. That lies on the coach, as does the blame if you feel certain players are being misused. Blaming the players for the faults of the coach is stupid, to be frank.

Being put on the 1st line isn't suddenly going to increase LaRose's talent level. To expect otherwise is expecting too much.

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12-18-2010, 11:57 AM
  #252
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Wow we are having a great December and this is what people act like? I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and just enjoy how we are playing right now.

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12-18-2010, 12:02 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Anton Bomb View Post
There's finding fault, and then there's placing blame on the wrong person. Blaming him for getting 1st line minutes is ridiculous, because he (like most hockey players) have little to no say as to where they're put. That lies on the coach, as does the blame if you feel certain players are being misused. Blaming the players for the faults of the coach is stupid, to be frank.
I think you're missing the point, though. It isn't a fault of either...it's effective line-balance strategy. Chad LaRose is extremely useful on that first line as an agitator, someone to get the opposition off of their game, to use his speed to disrupt, opening up areas for his linemates to be creative.

Chad LaRose *belongs* on that first line.

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12-18-2010, 12:08 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Anton Dubinsky View Post
Not going to quote the whole post, but I recall reading a very similar post about a month ago from you. And that was the last time LaRose scored a point.

And the fact that his ES goals are good enough for third on the team tells you more about the team's talent level and your ability to cherry-pick stats than it does about Chad LaRose. Lots of other players get endlessly bashed here, it's just that LaRose is the only one who commands eight-paragraph replies in defense of him. There are rarely arguments spanning multiple pages about Joe Corvo, yet he's probably the most bashed player on this board.

And to expand on the ES production, there are also assists. There are eight players on the team with as many or more ES points than LaRose: Staal (19), Ruutu (14), Skinner (13), Jokinen (13), Pitkanen (12), Cole (10), Sutter (10), Samsonov (10). And none of them have gone twelve games without a point at any time in the season. Not even Cole can manage such a feat. Note that this lists includes a guy who has been "significantly injured" (according to Mo), a defensemen, and two guys who were sent to the fourth line due to poor play (one of whom ended up in the press box for two games). We have a stunningly mediocre forward group and Chad LaRose is still among the worst of them.

LaRose has failed to tally a point in 24 of 30 games this season. He has not scored a single point since his four-point game against Ottawa over a month ago. Are you really wondering why people say he should not be on the top line?

I used SOG and ES-goal stats not because I was cherry-picking, but because the specific critisizm was "whiffing" and/or lack of finish (now, if you're going to cherry pick yourself and change the subject to a non-whiffing one by including ES assists, you would be more genuine if you compared him to only other forwards, and at least recognize the fact that one of his assists was SH, which gives him 11, quite squarely in the middle of the mediocre, point-total pack).

And I don't wonder why people say he shouldn't be on the top line, and I haven't said anywhere here that he should be now. Nor did you see me complaining he has been moved to the 3rd. What I read (and was answering) was the stupid notion that he "whiffs" any more than the next guy (as refuted by his consistent SOG totals), or that he "never should have been there in the first place", which ignores that fact that he did produce for much of the time he was. It's a BS rewrite of history to pretend he was a great detriment to the team while he was doing so as if a cadre of neo-Gretzkies was waiting in the wings because those, as you say, stunnningly mediocre fowards were certainly even moreso then.

Also omitted in the refrains of derision of who was playing with Staal is the fact that the Skinner-grooming line of him, Ruutu, and Cole was showing chemistry so they kept it together, with nobody being shuffled through the 2nd line during November and most of December. Also apparently forgotten was addressing the weakness down the middle until Sutter got back. Given the 2nd line situation and the need for Ruutu and Jokinen to assume center duties, it isn't such a giant, mind-blowing leap to have guys like Samsonov and LaRose on the 1st line, which was producing anyway.

Now that the step has been taken to break up that 2nd line, and Sutter is back, the situation has changed and everyone should be happy LaRose is on the 3rd now. LaRose plays the game he does best consistently, but the accusation of him "whiffing" any more than others who can't manage his SOG consistency is still, and always has been, utter BS.

The good news for the team is that now the 2nd line logjam has been broken, all these other forwards who were forced into mediocrity will now break out as well, and by game 60 the record will show that the 28-game, 1st line injustice will have been rectified by them shining ever-so brightly. We can revisit it at the game 60 mark to see if it happened.

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Old
12-18-2010, 12:12 PM
  #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geehAAB View Post
I think you're missing the point, though. It isn't a fault of either...it's effective line-balance strategy. Chad LaRose is extremely useful on that first line as an agitator, someone to get the opposition off of their game, to use his speed to disrupt, opening up areas for his linemates to be creative.

Chad LaRose *belongs* on that first line.

LaRose CAN fill in on that first line, because he has shown in the past to work well with Staal. As I said earlier, this team doesn't have much in the way of talent, so it tries to compensate that by finding chemistry. And when they find something, they stick with it until it "dries up". Probably the reason for the constant, seemingly without reason, line-switching.

I don't think anyone's said LaRose BELONGS on the first line, because last time I checked, Staal's the only 1st line forward we've got. And everyone knows it. Just like everyone knows those winger spots on the 1st line are going to be filled with players that wouldn't be there on many other teams, because we have no first line wingers.

Despite all this knowledge, it doesn't stop the complaining though. Most act like there's some super talented winger grinding on the 4th line and not getting his fair shot to play with Staal.

LaRose is better suited for the 3rd line energy role (again, as I said earlier). But since we've got ten 3rd liners to the three 3rd line spots open, there's going to be some players that are getting more minutes than they probably should be. And since nothing can really be done about that, you suck it up and hope for the best.

Or keep complaining. That'll change everything.

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12-18-2010, 12:39 PM
  #256
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Glad to see my grossly misinterpreted passing thought post about Troy Bodie turned into this... Your welcome, guys!

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12-18-2010, 01:09 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Anton Bomb View Post
...snip...
1. I haven't seen one person actually blame LaRose for LaRose getting first line minutes. That would just be stupid. Maurice is blasted for his line ups all the time on here...
2. Just because I feel that LaRose should be playing on the 3rd line even on a team with a relatively weak top 6 like ours doesn't mean I think he is taking away ice time from better players. I just think he's a prototypical bottom 6er at the NHL level, on any team. He can fill in a top 6 role temporarily but he shouldn't be considered a long term option there. If his current scoring drought isn't a testament to that, I don't know what is.
3. There wouldn't be any "complaining" (in quotes because if this is complaining, half or more of the posts on HF are complaining since other team forums have discussions just like this one daily) if LaRose apologists didn't pop out of the woodwork everytime the slightest negative thing is said about him.

It is pretty pointless to argue about this though. It's just one big circle. Same arguments from both sides each time and neither side ever convinces the other differently. This is about all I have left to say on this.

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12-18-2010, 01:21 PM
  #258
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Perhaps you see it differently, but I see complaints about LaRose on the top line quickly turn to anger that LaRose is on the top line, which in turn turns to anger at LaRose for playing the minutes assigned. Or more aptly:

*pregame*
"What is Maurice thinking putting LaRose on the top line?"
*play starts, team looks lackluster at start (shocker )*
"Seriously, what the **** is LaRose doing on the top line?"
*play continues throughout the night, 1st line doesn't produce much*
"LaRose brought that whole line down. He's so ****in' useless"

Tell me that doesn't happen.

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12-18-2010, 01:25 PM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Bomb View Post

*pregame*
"What is Maurice thinking putting LaRose on the top line?"
*play starts, team looks lackluster at start (shocker )*
"Seriously, what the **** is LaRose doing on the top line?"
*play continues throughout the night, 1st line doesn't produce much*
"LaRose brought that whole line down. He's so ****in' useless"
Get out of my brain.

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12-18-2010, 01:26 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Erik Stall View Post

.........2. Just because I feel that LaRose should be playing on the 3rd line even on a team with a relatively weak top 6 like ours doesn't mean I think he is taking away ice time from better players. I just think he's a prototypical bottom 6er at the NHL level, on any team. He can fill in a top 6 role temporarily but he shouldn't be considered a long term option there. If his current scoring drought isn't a testament to that, I don't know what is.
.
I say we take off, and nuke LaRose from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

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12-18-2010, 02:03 PM
  #261
geehaad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Bomb View Post
*pregame*
"What is Maurice thinking putting LaRose on the top line?"
*play starts, team looks lackluster at start (shocker )*
"Seriously, what the **** is LaRose doing on the top line?"
*play continues throughout the night, 1st line doesn't produce much*
"LaRose brought that whole line down. He's so ****in' useless"

Tell me that doesn't happen.
Here's what I like to do before posting something like this: research. Going into it, I always think I'm going to find a ****-ton of examples, but mostly I find that it's not quite as prevalent as I'd thought. But anway, it's really your burden of proof, if you think about it. Or to answer your challenge another way: "that doesn't happen." Now, prove me wrong...

Corvo, Pitkanen, Staal, Harrison, Peters, and perhaps Cole...those are the boys who are consistently nailed to the cross. These days, saying *anything* negative about Chad LaRose is dealt with in short order via a stiff rebuke by someone who knows more about hockey than you do, so you don't dare utter a discouraging word.

Secondly, are we really going to start coming down on the stupid **** that people post during the game? If so, I say we start with the Florida game. In general, people say a *lot* of stupid **** during the game...to the point that it makes me wonder if any of them go back and re-read what they had so feverishly typed. To be sure, there's a lot of folks who are going to end up hanging from a noose in short order, and none of them will involve comments about Chad LaRose.

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12-18-2010, 02:24 PM
  #262
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Really? Never happens? Which part? Because I can find instances of all 3. In fact, I can find instances of all 3 in one topic. You're off your rocker if you think LaRose doesn't get blasted around here. Think about it. If he didn't, there wouldn't be any need to defend him against misinformed attacks.

And the hypothetical was during the game. If you'd like, I can find examples that happen before/after the games as well. So please, clear up for me which part never happens: The first statement, the second statement, or the third one?

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12-18-2010, 02:32 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by geehAAB View Post
It's unimaginable how anyone can find fault in Chad LaRose. He's dreamy.

His reputation...nay, his legacy...must be defended no matter what the criticism.
Riveting, actually. Meanwhile, back to the team...

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12-18-2010, 02:35 PM
  #264
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Riveting, actually. Meanwhile, back to the team...
yeha know what is funny? Samsonov, after scoring in the shootout for the first time in who knows how long, and actuially winning the game on his goal, didnt look too....excited. like it was just another goal scored, just another game won. maybe he had something to prove and it was more of a "yeha, take that, haters" kind of expression.

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12-18-2010, 02:36 PM
  #265
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I have to admit, I was surprised by the Samsonov choice. We have so many shooters in the shootout, it really was a crapshoot as to who the third one would be.

I thought for sure Maurice would have put Staal out there. Just seemed like a Maurice move.

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12-18-2010, 02:40 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Anton Bomb View Post
I have to admit, I was surprised by the Samsonov choice. We have so many shooters in the shootout, it really was a crapshoot as to who the third one would be.

I thought for sure Maurice would have put Staal out there. Just seemed like a Maurice move.
well he put staal out there last shootout, and stall did exactly what he always does....exactly nothing (at least skinner TRIES and hasnt scored much, stall just shoots dryly). i bet this means sammy has a spot in the shootout for a while now lol

something funny, in playing NHL09 today (the only one they have here in our MWR) i played in 2 shootouts out of 4 games, and used dwyer as the middle shooter in both. in both, he was the only one to score. funny.

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12-20-2010, 09:08 AM
  #267
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It's a weekend game near the holidays. I'm thinking 16,000+
16,600. Good call.

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Old
12-20-2010, 09:42 AM
  #268
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this just in, we have won 4 in a row, now everyone enjoy

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12-20-2010, 10:58 AM
  #269
DaveG
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this just in, we have won 4 in a row, now everyone enjoy
that word seems to be missing from my vocabulary. I've searched my mind Mr. Burns style. It should be somewhere between Engage and Entropy, but it's not.

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12-20-2010, 05:18 PM
  #270
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Wow we are having a great December and this is what people act like? I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and just enjoy how we are playing right now.
This.

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