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Impact of Russia's World Cup 2018 on Russian Hockey?

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12-17-2010, 10:44 PM
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Tricolore#20
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Impact of Russia's World Cup 2018 on Russian Hockey?

Two weeks ago, FIFA awarded the World Cup to Russia in 2018. This was certainly an interesting decision, and allows FIF A to explore essentially a new frontier in it's quest to conquer the world.

I wonder what impact this decision will have on the future of Russian hockey specifically. It seems to me that Russian government and growing public enterprise will likely allocate the majority of its funding towards football in coming years. It is lucrative business, and we have seen successes by the Russian national team (Euro 2008) and club football (Zenit St. Petersburg) We have already heard that Roman Abramovich is expected to make a massive contribution towards developing the infrastructure to allow this to happen. Will other oligarchs follow? Especially those that have took up the cause of funding Russian hockey.

I ask this especially, because in countries like Czech Republic and Slovakia over the last decade, I get the sense that football is lapping hockey in terms of infrastructure and development. When Slovak club teams like Zilina play in the Champions League (albeit poorly), is there far more incentive for the economic powers to put their money into football than hockey? Slovakia making this past summer's World Cup was far more of an accomplishment than anything they accomplished in hockey? (including the 2002 Worlds?)

I wonder what the implications of the World Cup going to Russia in 2018 are for the future of Russian hockey. I would appreciate some insightful responses.

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12-17-2010, 10:52 PM
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I wonder if the opposite would happen. What if the World Cup in Russia would influence interest among fans of visiting countries in a less familiar sport like hockey? Point of argument - world baseball after the '94 World Cup.

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12-17-2010, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricolore#20 View Post

I ask this especially, because in countries like Czech Republic and Slovakia over the last decade, I get the sense that football is lapping hockey in terms of infrastructure and development. When Slovak club teams like Zilina play in the Champions League (albeit poorly), is there far more incentive for the economic powers to put their money into football than hockey? Slovakia making this past summer's World Cup was far more of an accomplishment than anything they accomplished in hockey? (including the 2002 Worlds?)

.
Kids who want to play football will play football, the kids who want to play hockey will play hockey.


The Slovak showing in Vancouver was just as big as the showing at the World Cup. For a country thats the size of South Carolina that takes on international superpowers and BEATS them, it gets noticed.

I'm not going to deny the quality of in-country players and teams are lacking. The players that are high quality have left for greener pastures to further their development. (North America) It's a numbers game. 5 million people isn't going to produce thousands of elite hockey players making an impact against the greatest that the world has to offer. Although they'll done pretty damn well for themselves so far.

I see your point about Russia, but I don't seeing it applying to Slovakia because Slovakia will never be hosting a World Cup.

The World Championships are in Slovakia this year (for the first time ever), and that will gain exposure on the sport. I'm not concerned.

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12-18-2010, 12:20 AM
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My hope is that Russia doesn't get utterly destroyed (national embarrassment) like the olympics, because that will result in a lot of action to "fix" this problem (image and sporting acheivment are central to the russian regime) if they do too well it will increase popularity of football as it did after the Euro 2008. So I hope Russia does average. 2nd in their group and loses 1st or second round knockout.

The problem with russian hockey, as with so many other former block countries is in its demographics. Russian populations are declining steeply in russia, while various other ethnicites are growing (tatars, bashkirs, various other caucasian groups) who only play football. hockey is a russian sport in russia. as participation drops, so does financial support. Russian hockey will be seriously threatened in the near future.

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12-18-2010, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post
My hope is that Russia doesn't get utterly destroyed (national embarrassment) like the olympics, because that will result in a lot of action to "fix" this problem (image and sporting acheivment are central to the russian regime) if they do too well it will increase popularity of football as it did after the Euro 2008. So I hope Russia does average. 2nd in their group and loses 1st or second round knockout.

The problem with russian hockey, as with so many other former block countries is in its demographics. Russian populations are declining steeply in russia, while various other ethnicites are growing (tatars, bashkirs, various other caucasian groups) who only play football. hockey is a russian sport in russia. as participation drops, so does financial support. Russian hockey will be seriously threatened in the near future.
I doubt what sport Tatars and Bashkirs are playing affects the development of hockey in Russia as these groups are very small in comparison to the greater Slavic population. Jesus. What a stupid point to try and push.

Also, football is just as much a Russian sport as hockey.

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12-18-2010, 12:30 AM
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I hope teh Brazilians destroy the euro soccer teams

more hockey?

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12-18-2010, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by TheDreaming View Post
I doubt what sport Tatars and Bashkirs are playing affects the development of hockey in Russia as these groups are very small in comparison to the greater Slavic population. Jesus. What a stupid point to try and push.

Also, football is just as much a Russian sport as hockey.
true, however if you look at the complexity of the demographics of the russian population you will find its an inverted pyramid. participation is already quite low because of relative financial restrictions.

by ~2030 there will be more children born to non-ethnic russian parents then russian parents in russia. I think you will find that within this century russia will transform into an islamic leaning country, and many russian pursuits such as hockey will be all but abandoned.

so yes what i said is relevant.

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12-18-2010, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post
true, however if you look at the complexity of the demographics of the russian population you will find its an inverted pyramid. participation is already quite low because of relative financial restrictions.

by ~2030 there will be more children born to non-ethnic russian parents then russian parents in russia. I think you will find that within this century russia will transform into an islamic leaning country, and many russian pursuits such as hockey will be all but abandoned.

so yes what i said is relevant.
Citation needed. I'm interested to know what statistics indicate an Islamic hockey discouraging nation is blossoming in the largest country on earth.

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12-18-2010, 12:37 AM
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Hockey is a pretty small participant sport in Russia. According to IIHF.com there's only 53,280 registered hockey players in the country.

Well, Russian hockey will have its chance in Sochi 2014.


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12-18-2010, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by TheDreaming View Post
Citation needed. I'm interested to know what statistics indicate an Islamic hockey discouraging nation is blossoming in the largest country on earth.
I don't know what russias geographic size has to do with its demographics. huh??

never said "islamic hockey discouraging". what i said was that when there is no children to play the sport, it severely weakens the success of said sport.

and its extremely complex to cite what I'm explaining. you need to cite literally hundreds of sources to get the point which I am raising. further, the russian government stopped cooperating with westerners with reliable demographics information in around 2000-02.

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12-18-2010, 12:55 AM
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Hockey is a pretty small participant sport in Russia. According to IIHF.com there's only 53,280 registered hockey players in the country.

Well, Russian hockey will have its chance in Sochi 2014.
This,

and Football is already the biggest sport in the country anyway by a fair margin. Hockey will do ok in Russia as long as Russia stays cold.

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12-18-2010, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Chicoutimi View Post
Hockey is a pretty small participant sport in Russia. According to IIHF.com there's only 53,280 registered hockey players in the country.

Well, Russian hockey will have its chance in Sochi 2014.
That's not many players for their population, although not sure what is considered "Russia" now and what is considered Sovereign states.Also, Russia doesn't have the standard of living North America does, a lot of these people probably don't have the resources to put their kids through hockey year after year.

Although Moscow alone has 15 million people.

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12-18-2010, 05:37 AM
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For a country thats the size of South Carolina that takes on international superpowers and BEATS them, it gets noticed.
You couldn't handle Olli Jokinen

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Originally Posted by Harv View Post
The World Championships are in Slovakia this year (for the first time ever), and that will gain exposure on the sport. I'm not concerned.
I'm surprised you haven't organized the tournament before, given that even Latvia has been hosts once. Isn't Belarus going to host it as well??

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12-18-2010, 11:10 AM
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You couldn't handle Olli Jokinen



I'm surprised you haven't organized the tournament before, given that even Latvia has been hosts once. Isn't Belarus going to host it as well??
I think that Harv should have been more specific, this will be the first time Slovakia will organize the tourney as an independent state, it co-hosted the event a few times during Czechoslovakia and last time was just before the split in 1992, so less than 20 years is not THAT much time between having the tourney played here. And itīs not surprising especially since prior to 2006 Slovakia didnīt actually have an arena that could host such an event.

Quote:
I ask this especially, because in countries like Czech Republic and Slovakia over the last decade, I get the sense that football is lapping hockey in terms of infrastructure and development. When Slovak club teams like Zilina play in the Champions League (albeit poorly), is there far more incentive for the economic powers to put their money into football than hockey? Slovakia making this past summer's World Cup was far more of an accomplishment than anything they accomplished in hockey? (including the 2002 Worlds?)
I donīt think it has anything to do with infrastructure or development, itīs just that much more kids play football, itīs cheaper and it is easier to "accidently" get a generation of good players as Slovakia has right now.

Overall, there arenīt many differences with the way that hockey and football work over here. Just like in hockey, in football the best players leave to other countries, and just like many young hockey players go to play into the CHL, many football players leave to football academies in England and other states (the big difference here being that the football teams actually get some pretty big money when the players decided to move there). The football league is a crap league played at crappy old stadiums (both those and the quality and the following are even worse than in the hockey Extraliga), plus on top of that you get a bunch of nasty hooligans between some of the teams fans. The only advantage of the football league over the hockey league probably is that the young players actually do get to play in the football league- as an example except a few imports most of the U21 team which finnished 2nd behind Croatia in European qualifiers was made up mostly from Corgoň liga players. However you canīt really judge the league and the football in the country on a whole just based on the top team, just like you canīt do the same in the hockey league when you take a top team like Košice. Žilina has achieved itīs succes mainly thanks to a a great youth system and the development of their own youth academy- but even having a youth academy is a rarity in Slovakia.

Well, I would say that a 4th place finish at the Olympic Games in hockey might be considered at least as big of a succes as qualifying for the WC even by an outsider.
And as for us insiders, I donīt think even finishing top 16 in the WC was as big of an achievment as winning the IHWC- sure we all were overjoyed and the Italy win was talked about everyone and everywhere, yet you didnīt see hundreds of thousands of people celebrating in the streets ala 2002- itīs kind of different when you actually win gold in something. But I really donīt think that comparing a country like Russia with small countries like Slovakia or Czech republic makes much sense in this aspect. For a small and young country like ours- we identify and maybe even overindetify with our sportsmen in a way that we consider the achievments of our sportsmen achievments of our own. I think itīs because the world doesnīt know us much and sportsmen are some of the very few people who make us a good name out there in the world. Therefore it doesnīt really matter whether itīs hockey or football or whatever, everyone who makes a big achievment itīs gonna be celebrated big, because those people are one of the few out there who are making us proud to tell someone where weīre from. Of course the bigger the sport in the world is the better.

But when it comes to what kind of influence soem succes or hosting an event has for sports in this country in terms of instructure or development, I would say itīs somewhere between none and really bad. Most of the time itīs just a good opportunity for the mostly corrupt chiefs of the one or the other sports federation to smile infront of the cameras, boast about their achievements (even when they were achieved by individuals who had little to none support from the federation and when the development system did little to actually bring the sportsman up) and a great way to claim that everything is great and tha they are doing all in their powers for it to continue that way, although in 99% cases just the opposite is true.

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12-18-2010, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post
The problem with russian hockey, as with so many other former block countries is in its demographics. Russian populations are declining steeply in russia, while various other ethnicites are growing (tatars, bashkirs, various other caucasian groups) who only play football. hockey is a russian sport in russia. as participation drops, so does financial support. Russian hockey will be seriously threatened in the near future.
Point taken, but looking at cities like Kazan and Ufa show that non-Russian peoples can still be very into hockey.

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12-19-2010, 07:29 AM
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I doubt what sport Tatars and Bashkirs are playing affects the development of hockey in Russia as these groups are very small in comparison to the greater Slavic population. Jesus. What a stupid point to try and push.

Also, football is just as much a Russian sport as hockey.

also to add, hockey is 2 times more popular within turkic(tatar-bashqort) ethnicity than soccer/football the person above is wrong, hockey is much more popular firstly because of great franchises like Ak Bars(Snow Leopard in Tatar language) and Salavat Yulaev(national bashqort hero who fought with Russian monarch goverment) both have great schools and so on..in Ufa for example there is no football at all, it's the only 1mil. city in Russia which haven't got top division football only bunch of semi-pro..everyone here is sick on hockey.Kazan can't fill it's football stadium thou its football club playing in top division and Champions Legue..also there are much more tatar-bashqort hockey players than in football...every team of VHL have tatar-bashqort in its roster, most of the KHL teams got our players, Khabibulin playing in Edmonton, Sadikov in junior leagues, Nail Yakupov is top 2012 draft and so on...there is nothing same in football.


to be honest no one gives a **** here in Ufa about World Cup 2018..give us more hockey please

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12-19-2010, 07:37 AM
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tbh it's funny read about Idel-Ural regions coming from Canadiens and other foreigns, you really misinformed, just look at the rosters of MHL teams like Bars(Kazan) and Tolpar(Ufa) or Reactor(Nizhekamsk)

btw the best goalie in MHL is Rafael Khakimov and he's a bashqort http://mhl.khl.ru/stat/leaders/187/gaa/

also in russian Eurotour roster (which is running now in Moscow) 2 tatars Aleksandr Galimov and Danis Zaripov, both are fine and leaders of their KHL clubs (Lokomotiv Yaroslavl and Ak Bars Kazan)


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12-19-2010, 07:48 AM
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if you have questions about Tatarstan or Bashqortostan hockey you can ask me.

and also little information - Tatarstan has the largest numbers of rinks of Russian regions.and Slavs are minority here.

P:S: Islam doesn't prohibit me and my friend to play hockey in night league as well as pro tatar-bashqort hockey players, so don't tell bull**** please and don't be ignorant about it

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12-19-2010, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post
The problem with russian hockey, as with so many other former block countries is in its demographics. Russian populations are declining steeply in russia, while various other ethnicites are growing (tatars, bashkirs, various other caucasian groups) who only play football. hockey is a russian sport in russia. as participation drops, so does financial support. Russian hockey will be seriously threatened in the near future.
1. Russian population decline has been at least temporarily reversed. In 2009 the population in Russia sligtly grew.

2. There have been many great Tatar hockey players. Namely Zinetula Bilyaletdinov, Viktor Shalimov, Irek Gimayev, Nikolai Khabibulin and Danis Zaripov. Hockey is pretty popular in Tatarstan and Bashkortostan. Kazan and Ufa are big hockey towns.

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12-19-2010, 09:45 AM
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by ~2030 there will be more children born to non-ethnic russian parents then russian parents in russia.
Where do you base this assumption?

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12-19-2010, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by TatarBashqort View Post
tbh it's funny read about Idel-Ural regions coming from Canadiens and other foreigns, you really misinformed, just look at the rosters of MHL teams like Bars(Kazan) and Tolpar(Ufa) or Reactor(Nizhekamsk)

btw the best goalie in MHL is Rafael Khakimov and he's a bashqort http://mhl.khl.ru/stat/leaders/187/gaa/

also in russian Eurotour roster (which is running now in Moscow) 2 tatars Aleksandr Galimov and Danis Zaripov, both are fine and leaders of their KHL clubs (Lokomotiv Yaroslavl and Ak Bars Kazan)
Is Alexander Radulov Tatar too? He does not look like slavic Russian.

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12-19-2010, 11:18 AM
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1. Russian population decline has been at least temporarily reversed. In 2009 the population in Russia sligtly grew.

2. There have been many great Tatar hockey players. Namely Zinetula Bilyaletdinov, Viktor Shalimov, Irek Gimayev, Nikolai Khabibulin and Danis Zaripov. Hockey is pretty popular in Tatarstan and Bashkortostan. Kazan and Ufa are big hockey towns.
1. it depends on the region to be honest..

2.yeah true

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12-19-2010, 11:22 AM
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Is Alexander Radulov Tatar too? He does not look like slavic Russian.
he's half Gagauz, which is turkic nation too as Tatars and Bashqorts, but they are minor one.

i think he's feeling more like Russian than Gagauz

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12-19-2010, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by TatarBashqort View Post
1. it depends on the region to be honest..
Birth rate has risen in most regions in Russia, but it is also true that in North Caucasus, Tatarstan, Bashkortostan, Moscow and in some Siberian regions the birth rate is higher than in western Russia.

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12-19-2010, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by TatarBashqort View Post
he's half Gagauz, which is turkic nation too as Tatars and Bashqorts, but they are minor one.

i think he's feeling more like Russian than Gagauz
Never heard of Gagauz people before.

I always thought Radulov looked a lot like Chechens.

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