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Bergfors to Pittsburgh (or any other team)

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Old
12-18-2010, 09:01 PM
  #51
DwightKSchrute
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I like it, Dupuis+2nd sounds good to me. Bergfors is a RFA after this year tho and i'd say he would be looking for a bit of a pay raise.

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Old
12-18-2010, 09:01 PM
  #52
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Out of Kennedy or Dupuis I'm thinking they would want Kennedy. That would be for some obvious reasons but mostly because a UFA Dupuis doesn't exactly cement your roster for a Cup run. Kennedy is re-signable as an RFA.

As far as who I'd rather trade I dunno. Both are "decent." I would pull the trigger even if it was Kennedy just because at worst it's a lateral move and at best it's a decided victory for Shero. In my opinion of course .

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Old
12-18-2010, 09:04 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manifestodestiny View Post
It would be one of the few mutually beneficial trades in a while. Bergfors would provide one of the big two a good offensive winger, and Dupuis would offer a solid versatile player and a good locker room presence. The 2nd/3rd draft pick (conditional on Bergie resigning maybe?) would make up the difference, and both teams would be in a better situation.
That definitely sounds fair to me. Agreed that it would be an upgrade for both teams and just makes sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
I'd do that trade. I wonder if he would be a winger for Crosby, or Malkin? probably Malkin, he needs the help. Crosby can keep Dupuis+Kunitz. Malkin can have Bergfors+ someone else...playoff time it will be Talbot and Bergfors.
Yeah I like your lines. Sid keeps Kunitz for sure and Geno needs the upgrade to his line more. Unless Staal and Malkin click together when Jordan returns then maybe we'd see something more like this:

Kunitz - Crosby- Bergfors
Talbot - Staal - Malkin
Cooke - Letestu - Dupuis
Rupp - Adams - Asham

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Old
12-18-2010, 09:20 PM
  #54
Ugene Malkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitt's Best #87 #66 View Post
What about Tyler Kennedy and a pick?

He's very similar to Bergfors with probably less potential. Both righties around the same age and cap hit under a million.

5-8-13 for Kennedy and 7-11-18 for Bergfors.
This is what I'd be pushing....As said before, Dupuis is doing well enough that Sid can do what he does so well, but Kennedy, I feel is a third line lifer. Don't get me wrong here, he brings enough to the table and would be a solid guy for any team looking for an energetic RW'er, who can hang on to the puck for loads of possession time, Shoots a lot, but he just doesn't seem to be finishing enough to make the next jump. 30 to 40 points a season is his range which is pretty good for a third line winger.

Edit: Pulled this from our UFA thread, my line up sending out Kennedy for Bergfors.

Kunitz, Crosby, Dupuis
Staal, Malkin, Bergfors or (Bergfors, Staal, Malkin)
Cooke, Letestu, Asham
Rupp, Talbot, Adams/Godard/Connor

The second line is way stronger because of it, and the third line really only loses a bit of speed.


Last edited by Ugene Malkin: 12-18-2010 at 09:29 PM.
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Old
12-18-2010, 09:32 PM
  #55
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Bergfors' Hockey News blurb:

ASSETS: Is slick with the puck and oozes offensive potential. Displays sound hockey sense and scoring instincts.

FLAWS: Lacks the strength to win battles in the corners. Isn't a polished defensive player and doesn't play a physical game at all.

CAREER POTENTIAL: Skilled scoring winger.

Do those flaws sound like a player that would easily fit into the Pens' system?

I might give it a try for Kennedy and maybe a low prospect/pick, but that's about it.

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Old
12-18-2010, 09:33 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Uncle Martin View Post
This is what I'd be pushing....As said before, Dupuis is doing well enough that Sid can do what he does so well, but Kennedy, I feel is a third line lifer. Don't get me wrong here, he brings enough to the table and would be a solid guy for any team looking for an energetic RW'er, who can hang on to the puck for loads of possession time, Shoots a lot, but he just doesn't seem to be finishing enough to make the next jump. 30 to 40 points a season is his range which is pretty good for a third line winger.

Edit: Pulled this from our UFA thread, my line up sending out Kennedy for Bergfors.

Kunitz, Crosby, Dupuis
Staal, Malkin, Bergfors or (Bergfors, Staal, Malkin)
Cooke, Letestu, Asham
Rupp, Talbot, Adams/Godard/Connor

The second line is way stronger because of it, and the third line really only loses a bit of speed.
And that still leaves open the possibility of adding an extra rental winger at the deadline. I like it.

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Old
12-18-2010, 09:34 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by AgentM View Post
Yeah I like your lines. Sid keeps Kunitz for sure and Geno needs the upgrade to his line more. Unless Staal and Malkin click together when Jordan returns then maybe we'd see something more like this:

Kunitz - Crosby- Bergfors
Talbot - Staal - Malkin
Cooke - Letestu - Dupuis
Rupp - Adams - Asham

Come playoff time if Malkin and Staal don't work out i can see a lineup like this.

TD = trade deadline

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
TD-Malkin-Bergfors
Cooke-Staal-Letestu
Talbot-Jeffrey/Adams-Asham

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Old
12-18-2010, 09:44 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by NJD1982 View Post
I would love to have Bergie back, he's the only thing I didn't like about the Kovalchuck deal.

Langenbrunner for Bergfors?
Langenbrunner + Devil's 2nd next year would work for me.

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12-18-2010, 09:45 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by manifestodestiny View Post
Between Kennedy and Dupuis, I would prefer Dupuis. He would add another experienced, veteran influence to this team as prepare for a run.
Sold. Your people call our people and let's get 'er done!

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12-18-2010, 09:51 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PensBeerGeek View Post
Bergfors' Hockey News blurb:

ASSETS: Is slick with the puck and oozes offensive potential. Displays sound hockey sense and scoring instincts.

FLAWS: Lacks the strength to win battles in the corners. Isn't a polished defensive player and doesn't play a physical game at all.

CAREER POTENTIAL: Skilled scoring winger.

Do those flaws sound like a player that would easily fit into the Pens' system?


I might give it a try for Kennedy and maybe a low prospect/pick, but that's about it.
Seems to me that both teams would get what they need, and yes, a scoring winger who is very skilled is very much needed on the Pens. They are full of pluggers and one floater on a line that has the likes of Staal & Malkin would not hurt them in the slightest.

Bergfors is the step ahead that most Pens fans would have hoped Kennedy had taken already. Kennedy might just blossom with the Thrasher's, but that is just how it works sometimes, new surroundings and a better chance at making that next step.

All an all, Kennedy + 4th for Bergfors is a fair trade. Pens eat a bit of salary that would be very justifiable.

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Old
12-18-2010, 10:03 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by AgentM View Post
You really wouldn't move Kennedy for a guy that scored 21 goals in his first season and is scoring at the same pace this year? Kennedy is a decent 3rd liner but doesn't have top 6 talent like Bergfors.
Naturally, I would trade Kennedy for a package I couldn't refuse. But given Kennedy's character, work ethic, upside & cap-hit, I would not trade him unless I had to.

Also, I don't see too much value in trading one RW (Kennedy) for another RW (Bergfors, Setoguchi, etc.) because it's a little bit of a lateral move. As I've said before, if we want to add scoring depth, we should trade from our organizational strength (defense) and not our weakness (wingers).

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12-18-2010, 10:11 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
Naturally, I would trade Kennedy for a package I couldn't refuse. But given Kennedy's character, work ethic, upside & cap-hit, I would not trade him unless I had to.

Also, I don't see too much value in trading one RW (Kennedy) for another RW (Bergfors, Setoguchi, etc.) because it's a little bit of a lateral move. As I've said before, if we want to add scoring depth, we should trade from our organizational strength (defense) and not our weakness (wingers).
But you'd be moving him for a winger that based on career stats will likely put up 5+ more goals and 10+ assists. That's a sizable upgrade IMO.

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Old
12-18-2010, 10:18 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
Naturally, I would trade Kennedy for a package I couldn't refuse. But given Kennedy's character, work ethic, upside & cap-hit, I would not trade him unless I had to.

Also, I don't see too much value in trading one RW (Kennedy) for another RW (Bergfors, Setoguchi, etc.) because it's a little bit of a lateral move. As I've said before, if we want to add scoring depth, we should trade from our organizational strength (defense) and not our weakness (wingers).
It's not a lateral move if one team needs a more defensive hard working RW'er with a touch of scoring for a RW'er not very defensive, but has a bit higher scoring/skill pedigree and there's no room in the top six for him.

We need a skilled winger and they need plugger who works his tail off, simple as that.

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12-18-2010, 10:23 PM
  #64
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Keep Kennedy. Trade Dupuis instead. Thrashers want experience. Everybody wins.

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Old
12-18-2010, 10:30 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Keep Kennedy. Trade Dupuis instead. Thrashers want experience. Everybody wins.
Shero wouldn't touch line one, nor is there a need too.

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12-18-2010, 10:45 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Uncle Martin View Post
It's not a lateral move if one team needs a more defensive hard working RW'er with a touch of scoring for a RW'er not very defensive, but has a bit higher scoring/skill pedigree and there's no room in the top six for him.

We need a skilled winger and they need plugger who works his tail off, simple as that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentM View Post
But you'd be moving him for a winger that based on career stats will likely put up 5+ more goals and 10+ assists. That's a sizable upgrade IMO.

I'm surprised I have to explain this, but I'll go ahead anyway...

I would say that probably THE MOST important element that you want to have to be a successful & winning team are the intangibles: leadership, character, heart, work ethic, determination, etc.

Tyler Kennedy is a guy who personifies the above, and he has a decent amount of skill and unrealized offensive upside to go with it. He is a very versatile player, and his effort has the ability to help elevate the level of play of his teammates and help create momentum. Additionally, he is signed to a very cheap contract, and we can probably re-sign him to a long-term deal for very reasonable money. He has been one of the only true bright spots on our wing this year.

Atlanta is a team that is exceptionally well-coached by one of the most respected people in hockey, who, like Dan Bylsma, values work ethic. Bergfors has fallen out of favour with Ramsey so much so that he is now on the trading block and they don't want him on their team.

Would you want to trade Tyler Kennedy for a guy who is inferior in so many aspects of the game just because he may score 5 more goals or 10 more points? (I'm hoping this is viewed as a rhetorical question).

Don't get me wrong: I am praying that Ray Shero tries to make a pitch for Bergfors, as he's got the type of offensive ability we'd like to add to our team. But Kennedy, for all he brings and for the money, is one of our most valuable players. He's one of the last guys on the team I'd want to trade.

And as I said before, we need to ADD to our forward depth. A 1-for-1 trade might yield an upgrade, but does nothing to improve the depth. It's pretty simple, actually.

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Old
12-18-2010, 11:01 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
I'm surprised I have to explain this, but I'll go ahead anyway...

I would say that probably THE MOST important element that you want to have to be a successful & winning team are the intangibles: leadership, character, heart, work ethic, determination, etc.

Tyler Kennedy is a guy who personifies the above, and he has a decent amount of skill and unrealized offensive upside to go with it. He is a very versatile player, and his effort has the ability to help elevate the level of play of his teammates and help create momentum. Additionally, he is signed to a very cheap contract, and we can probably re-sign him to a long-term deal for very reasonable money. He has been one of the only true bright spots on our wing this year.

Atlanta is a team that is exceptionally well-coached by one of the most respected people in hockey, who, like Dan Bylsma, values work ethic. Bergfors has fallen out of favour with Ramsey so much so that he is now on the trading block and they don't want him on their team.

Would you want to trade Tyler Kennedy for a guy who is inferior in so many aspects of the game just because he may score 5 more goals or 10 more points? (I'm hoping this is viewed as a rhetorical question).

Don't get me wrong: I am praying that Ray Shero tries to make a pitch for Bergfors, as he's got the type of offensive ability we'd like to add to our team. But Kennedy, for all he brings and for the money, is one of our most valuable players. He's one of the last guys on the team I'd want to trade.

And as I said before, we need to ADD to our forward depth. A 1-for-1 trade might yield an upgrade, but does nothing to improve the depth. It's pretty simple, actually.
You can have all the heart in the world, but if you don't have guys that can score goals you aren't winning championships and we are lacking in scoring forwards.

I disagree with your final point too, we need to add scorers period. Kennedy is one of many moderately talented wingers we have that can get 10-15 goals a year, we can replace his production by slotting Jeffrey in his spot. I realize that Kennedy brings tenacity and heart and played his part in our Cup run, but I won't lose sleep over losing a winger that has no vision, is undersized, and doesn't kill penalties.

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Old
12-18-2010, 11:04 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Uncle Martin View Post
Shero wouldn't touch line one, nor is there a need too.
I'd hope Shero's smart enough to realize that adding Bergfors (whether it's for Crosby's wing or Malkin's) and replacing Dupuis with one of our other wingers is worth breaking up that line.

I'd rather have something like:
Kunitz - Crosby - Kennedy
Malkin - Staal - Bergfors
Cooke - Letestu - Asham
Rupp - Talbot - Adams

Than keeping our top line intact.

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Old
12-18-2010, 11:35 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Martin View Post
Seems to me that both teams would get what they need, and yes, a scoring winger who is very skilled is very much needed on the Pens. They are full of pluggers and one floater on a line that has the likes of Staal & Malkin would not hurt them in the slightest.

Bergfors is the step ahead that most Pens fans would have hoped Kennedy had taken already. Kennedy might just blossom with the Thrasher's, but that is just how it works sometimes, new surroundings and a better chance at making that next step.

All an all, Kennedy + 4th for Bergfors is a fair trade. Pens eat a bit of salary that would be very justifiable.
The Pens' offense is predicated on ferocious forechecking and work in the corners, so I'm not entirely comfortable with the idea that you could put a floater on a line and really hope for the best.

If someone did want to make a stab at someone like Bergfors, I'd much rather trade off Kennedy than Dupuis. Dupuis at least is a key penalty killer on the team, and is a bit more judicious in taking shots than TK is (sorry with regards to the "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take" crowd, but taking a shot isn't always the smartest play in a given situation).

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Old
12-19-2010, 01:20 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
Come playoff time if Malkin and Staal don't work out i can see a lineup like this.

TD = trade deadline

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
TD-Malkin-Bergfors
Cooke-Staal-Letestu
Talbot-Jeffrey/Adams-Asham

I too think PIT will be retaining the overmatching strength down the middle amongst the top nine (heck it's only the SC winning formula), and supplement the wings from the outside. For instance...

Kunitz-Crosby-Setoguchi (RHS, resign-able RFA @ <2M)
Talbot-Malkin-Bergfors (RHS, resign-able RFA @ <1.5M)
Cooke-Staal-Kennedy
Letestu-Jeffrey/Adams-Asham

Orpik-Letang
Martin-Michalek
TD-Lovejoy/Engelland


TD = trade deadline rental
Gonzo = Duper, Goose (both guys don't fit long-term anyways)


Last edited by JawandaPuck: 12-19-2010 at 01:59 AM.
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12-19-2010, 02:17 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
Naturally, I would trade Kennedy for a package I couldn't refuse. But given Kennedy's character, work ethic, upside & cap-hit, I would not trade him unless I had to.

Also, I don't see too much value in trading one RW (Kennedy) for another RW (Bergfors, Setoguchi, etc.) because it's a little bit of a lateral move. As I've said before, if we want to add scoring depth, we should trade from our organizational strength (defense) and not our weakness (wingers).
Trading TK for a guy like Setoguchi or Bergfors is a lateral move? I'm sorry I have to disagree with that statement.

Yes we have organizational strength as far as defense goes, but we have organizational strength in what Kennedy is, a bottom six player who is good for between 10 and 15 goals a season. TK is a third line plugger period, someone who squeaks a handful of goals in each season, most of which are ugly goals that can be replaced by guys already in the system.

I just dont see this upside you talk about, TK is a fourth rounder who was never a big goal scorer at any stage of his development . . . I think saying he has untapped offensive potential is a stretch.

If he could land us Bergfors, a player who has actual offensive potential, who could bring in a new element to the top six wingers (actual skill and creativity), then it would be worth the risk.

I like TK, I like what he brings to the team, but he isnt unique by any stretch of the imagination, his prodution is replaceable from within and his intangibles are found on this team in spades... this team has enough "character" guys, but how many young guys with real top six potential does this team have?

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12-19-2010, 02:23 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by PensBeerGeek View Post
Bergfors' Hockey News blurb:

ASSETS: Is slick with the puck and oozes offensive potential. Displays sound hockey sense and scoring instincts.

FLAWS: Lacks the strength to win battles in the corners. Isn't a polished defensive player and doesn't play a physical game at all.

CAREER POTENTIAL: Skilled scoring winger.

Do those flaws sound like a player that would easily fit into the Pens' system?

I might give it a try for Kennedy and maybe a low prospect/pick, but that's about it.
This post exactly. Bergfors would immediately go into Bylsma's doghouse and not get played.

No way they are dealing Dupuis for him since he is a cog on Sid's line, one of the better PKers, and also tells Geno **** you.

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12-19-2010, 02:28 AM
  #73
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Langenbrunner + Devil's 2nd next year would work for me.
Overpayment. Langenbrunner and a 4th or lower, maybe.

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Old
12-19-2010, 03:17 AM
  #74
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the one need i can see for the thrashers is to improve there penalty kill. Since by all indications they look playoff bound but since they also have an internal budget they would look to improve that problem for cheap

so my propsal would be
Leafs get
Bergfors

Thrasher get
Sjostrom
Caputi
Jesse Blacker(spec)

by getting sjostrom the thrashers get a better penalty killing option and he will help there penalty kill in general. caputi was considered a decent prospect and he is capable to play at nhl level so he provides the thrashers with depth and or a forward for the future. blacker is a good defensive spec who according to hockey futures would become the thrashers best spec as a defenceman.

leafs do this because they need some young forwards who can score which bergfors can.

forward lines for both teams
Atlanta
Ladd - Peverly - Antropov
Kane - Little - Stewart
Sjostrom - Burmistrov - Modin
Eager/Boulton - Slater - Stapleton

Leafs
Bergfors - Bozak - Kessel
Kulemin - Grabovski - MacArthur
Versteeg - Kadri - Armstrong
Brown - Brent - Orr

not a fan of either team, let me know what you guys think and if the proposal is fair

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12-19-2010, 03:30 AM
  #75
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This post exactly. Bergfors would immediately go into Bylsma's doghouse and not get played.

No way they are dealing Dupuis for him since he is a cog on Sid's line, one of the better PKers, and also tells Geno **** you.
This is exactly why I'm hesistant on guys like Bergfors. DB (and presumably Shero) love grinders. Even our best winger is a "skilled" grinder. For better or worse, that's how the team is built. Now if Ramsay employs the same system in Atlanta, what makes you think Bergfors would work in the Burgh?

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