HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Other Leagues > The KHL
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The KHL Discuss the Continental Hockey League (Kontinentalnaya Hokkeynaya Liga).

KHL team valuations?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-22-2010, 02:49 AM
  #1
MotorMaster
Registered User
 
MotorMaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Earth/cybertron/Char
Posts: 637
vCash: 500
KHL team valuations?

I'm just curious is there a team valuations list for the KHL?

I wasn't sure to post in here or in Business of hockey?

MotorMaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2010, 11:47 AM
  #2
Alessandro Seren Rosso
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Alessandro Seren Rosso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Europe
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 4,462
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Alessandro Seren Rosso Send a message via MSN to Alessandro Seren Rosso
What do you exactly mean? Something like how much money would be needed to buy them? If so, I'd say they are worth zero as it's extremely unlikely that anyone would buy them, at least concerning top teams and near future.

__________________
Алексей Черепанов навсегда в наших сердцах
Alessandro Seren Rosso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2010, 06:28 PM
  #3
MotorMaster
Registered User
 
MotorMaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Earth/cybertron/Char
Posts: 637
vCash: 500
A list that shows each teams worth.

MotorMaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2010, 07:03 PM
  #4
ozo
Registered User
 
ozo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Latvia
Posts: 2,787
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to ozo
Well I could make a table that would consist of 23 team names and 23 zeroes if that's what you want because what Alessandro already wrote is true - they are not businesses like NA hockey teams. They are worth as much as owner and sponsors are willing to burn on their roster per year. So one could say they have a negative value if that even makes any sense

ozo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-25-2010, 07:30 PM
  #5
finchster
Registered User
 
finchster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Belgorod
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 7,666
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to finchster
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozo View Post
Well I could make a table that would consist of 23 team names and 23 zeroes if that's what you want because what Alessandro already wrote is true - they are not businesses like NA hockey teams. They are worth as much as owner and sponsors are willing to burn on their roster per year. So one could say they have a negative value if that even makes any sense
While that is probably true, do any KHL teams own the stadiums they play in? If they do even though the sport isn't ran like a business there would be some value in the team because of the stadium.

finchster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-26-2010, 02:25 AM
  #6
obsenssive*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Alfredstown
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,740
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to obsenssive*
I can tell you that the disclosed payrolls of KHL teams go from 4 mil to +35 mil.

its extremely varied to say the least.

also the mafia (no exaggeration) owns [at least partially] several teams. so that value is not counted. the black market is a quite substantial part in the russian financial picture. its sortof what NA economists would call "implicit costs".

obsenssive* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-26-2010, 12:40 PM
  #7
Hanji
Registered User
 
Hanji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Country: United States
Posts: 898
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post
I can tell you that the disclosed payrolls of KHL teams go from 4 mil to +35 mil.

its extremely varied to say the least.

also the mafia (no exaggeration) owns [at least partially] several teams. so that value is not counted. the black market is a quite substantial part in the russian financial picture. its sortof what NA economists would call "implicit costs".

Hanji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-26-2010, 01:27 PM
  #8
TatarBashqort
 
TatarBashqort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ufa
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 126
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post
I can tell you that the disclosed payrolls of KHL teams go from 4 mil to +35 mil.

its extremely varied to say the least.

also the mafia (no exaggeration) owns [at least partially] several teams. so that value is not counted. the black market is a quite substantial part in the russian financial picture. its sortof what NA economists would call "implicit costs".


lol mafia

TatarBashqort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-26-2010, 01:37 PM
  #9
Peter25
Registered User
 
Peter25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,288
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post
also the mafia (no exaggeration) owns [at least partially] several teams. so that value is not counted. the black market is a quite substantial part in the russian financial picture. its sortof what NA economists would call "implicit costs".
Did you read that from The Economist or from Guardian?

Peter25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2010, 10:56 AM
  #10
Mathradio
Go Roy Munson!
 
Mathradio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,524
vCash: 500
Do you mean that even Magnitogorsk or Minsk (some of the teams with the better finances in the KHL) would not be worth even what the Florida Panthers would be?

Mathradio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2011, 03:01 PM
  #11
ViD
Registered User
 
ViD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Blue Jackets Area
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 6,308
vCash: 500
99% of the KHL teams are not profitable, therefore they don't really possess any value to potential buyers, they are more like an instrument in political game.

ViD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2011, 05:06 PM
  #12
yunost
Registered User
 
yunost's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViD View Post
99% of the KHL teams are not profitable, therefore they don't really possess any value to potential buyers, they are more like an instrument in political game.
first of all there are only 23 teams so 99% doesnt make any sense as a digit.

second they do carry some monetary value. I mean the Ak-Bars brand is not free

Obviously in terms of profitability its not valuable, but thats likewise with many other professional sports clubs in europe-not just hockey in Russia or KHL in specific.

and please, if you could, enlighten me on this 'political game'.
I understand that oligarchs like to own clubs for status and such, but another underlying factor such as politics is not as apparent to me. I dont quite imagine what sort of political statement Severstal is making.

Surely you wont have me believe that brands such as CSKA or Dynamo have NO value. They have owners and to overtake that ownership would cost lots of money.

yunost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2011, 08:57 PM
  #13
ViD
Registered User
 
ViD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Blue Jackets Area
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 6,308
vCash: 500
Quote:
first of all there are only 23 teams so 99% doesnt make any sense as a digit.
you trolling?

Quote:
second they do carry some monetary value. I mean the Ak-Bars brand is not free
heh, show me any sane businessman who would want to buy that "brand". Obviously if you got so much money that you don't care how much you lose, you are good to go. However, if you are planning to run a profitable business it's not exactly what you want.

Quote:
and please, if you could, enlighten me on this 'political game'.
I understand that oligarchs like to own clubs for status and such, but another underlying factor such as politics is not as apparent to me. I dont quite imagine what sort of political statement Severstal is making.
A lot of teams are sponsored by their respectable areas(regions, oblasts and such) as not every club has Gazprom or TatNeft as their general sponsor, so the governors can use that card for the next elections saying "look, we support sports and stuff" while stealing tons of money...

Quote:
Surely you wont have me believe that brands such as CSKA or Dynamo have NO value. They have owners and to overtake that ownership would cost lots of money.
yeah, Dynamo has such big value that it almost ceased to exist prior to this season. Say thanks to that merger with HC MVD.

ViD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2011, 02:25 AM
  #14
yunost
Registered User
 
yunost's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 390
vCash: 500
Its beyond me how a person can be so inconsistent and lopsided. Either you cant read or cohesively respond to posts, or you have carefully crafted some sort of reply in a manner that does not respond to any of my points.

1/4 forget it

2/4 The valuation of a brand has nothing to do with what YOU think profitable businesses should make or about the level of sanity certain businessmen have.

3/4 The sponsorship, and a sports budget for municipal and provincial regions is a common practice in most countries of the world. This does not suggest any 'political game'. I'd be very interested to hear otherwise, and not with some ambiguous assumption.

4/4 You have not addressed my point at all, just merely gone off topic with some example. Dynamo or CSKA are just examples of valuable clubs that would cost money to acquire. If you dont like the Dynamo example, insert any other club. Nevertheless it would in fact cost you, and therefore prove that the clubs do have value

Moreover it is a common practice for clubs not to be profitable and still carry a value. I doubt that anyone would be foolish enough to say that British Premier league football clubs carry no value, and yet nearly all of them run on debt and deficit.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/f...e-1912244.html

yunost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2011, 02:41 AM
  #15
ViD
Registered User
 
ViD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Blue Jackets Area
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 6,308
vCash: 500
Quote:
2/4 The valuation of a brand has nothing to do with what YOU think profitable businesses should make or about the level of sanity certain businessmen have.
If that's so easy, please explain me how Lada Togliatti was disbanded? That was the only big sports brand in a pretty big city. Since the car manufacturer didn't need the team, noone else was there to take over.

Quote:
3/4 The sponsorship, and a sports budget for municipal and provincial regions is a common practice in most countries of the world. This does not suggest any 'political game'. I'd be very interested to hear otherwise, and not with some ambiguous assumption.
You just don't know anything about how it's done in Russia. One governor comes in the office and he likes hockey. So he makes the companies sponsor the teams in return for some tax cuts, then he finds money in the regional budget and the team is secure. Some time later, the next governor comes in and he doesn't give a **** about hockey, the team will be left hanging. That has happened numerous times with many sport teams, not just hockey.

Quote:
Moreover it is a common practice for clubs not to be profitable and still carry a value. I doubt that anyone would be foolish enough to say that British Premier league football clubs carry no value, and yet nearly all of them run on debt and deficit.
That's because the teams have land, infrastructure, stadium, stocks and other possessions. If it's just a "name", nobody will care about it unless it's some rich hardcore fan.

I am not really familiar whether KHL teams own their stadiums and if they are not, you realize that people are not going to pay crazy money just to own that "brand" which only has name and history behind it.

ViD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2011, 02:22 PM
  #16
Mathradio
Go Roy Munson!
 
Mathradio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,524
vCash: 500
Sure, purchasing KHL teams would cost an eventual owner something. But maybe not $100M (or even $50M in some cases.)

Mathradio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2011, 08:25 AM
  #17
ozo
Registered User
 
ozo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Latvia
Posts: 2,787
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to ozo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
Did you read that from The Economist or from Guardian?
And what sources, we should read according to you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TatarBashqort View Post
lol mafia
Hmm, I was under impression that Vitjaz was owned by, erm, shady businessman. The whole concept of their roster building kinda supports this theory.

ozo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2011, 09:58 AM
  #18
obsenssive*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Alfredstown
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,740
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to obsenssive*
Quote:
Originally Posted by TatarBashqort View Post
lol mafia
are you denying the existence of illegal business operation in the FSU?

man that putin propaganda must work really well.

go read some Novaya Gazeta.

obsenssive* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2011, 05:19 PM
  #19
ozo
Registered User
 
ozo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Latvia
Posts: 2,787
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to ozo
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post
are you denying the existence of illegal business operation in the FSU?

man that putin propaganda must work really well.

go read some Novaya Gazeta.
Great contribution to thread right here.

I agree with you completely, but, please, have some more respect for other people and don't post in such an aggressive way.

ozo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2011, 06:06 PM
  #20
Zine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 8,893
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozo View Post
And what sources, we should read according to you?



Hmm, I was under impression that Vitjaz was owned by, erm, shady businessman. The whole concept of their roster building kinda supports this theory.
You must have a very liberal use of the term "mafia" then.
C'mon. 'Shady businessmen' who made millions in the 90s are not currently mafia as understood in Western terms today.

Quit being disingenuous

Zine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2011, 06:09 PM
  #21
Zine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 8,893
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post
are you denying the existence of illegal business operation in the FSU?

man that putin propaganda must work really well.

go read some Novaya Gazeta.
FSU is a red herring......nothing to do with KHL. OK what KHL teams are supported by mafias? You said several were.

Zine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2011, 06:43 PM
  #22
ozo
Registered User
 
ozo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Latvia
Posts: 2,787
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to ozo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
You must have a very liberal use of the term "mafia" then.
C'mon. 'Shady businessmen' who made millions in the 90s are not currently mafia as understood in Western terms today.

Quit being disingenuous
Okay. Term "mafia" clearly isn't used properly in this topic, but how would you describe Vityaz owners? Siloviks (Силовики)?

ozo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2011, 06:45 PM
  #23
obsenssive*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Alfredstown
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,740
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to obsenssive*
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozo View Post
Great contribution to thread right here.

I agree with you completely, but, please, have some more respect for other people and don't post in such an aggressive way.
its a direct issue. you can't really talk about it in a polite manner if somebody refutes it.

eg. its like saying Lisenko and Kramzaks were clueless. I'm sure you wouldn't like that.

obsenssive* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2011, 06:47 PM
  #24
obsenssive*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Alfredstown
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,740
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to obsenssive*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
FSU is a red herring......nothing to do with KHL. OK what KHL teams are supported by mafias? You said several were.
the reason I said FSU because the KHL is an INTERNATIONAL organization. unless you consider latvia, belarus, and khazahkstan part of russia? not to mention places like tatarstan which are amazingly far from muscovite influence. regionalism is quite strong in parts of russia, like really strong.

obsenssive* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2011, 07:18 PM
  #25
Peter25
Registered User
 
Peter25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,288
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post
go read some Novaya Gazeta.
No, the Economist and Edward Lucas is a better choice.

Or how about La Russophobe?

Peter25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:57 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.