Even when they had Markov I wanted another D-man...I could understand not trading for one though since it wasn't an immediate need. In the offseason we deff need to retool. Only old guy I'd keep is Hamrlik. No Gill, No Spacek (prob would have to keep him though), no Picard.
Markov
Subban
Gorges
Hamr
Spacek - if we can't move him
Solid puck moving defenseman - Bieksa a few years ago.
Not sure if D is too slow or just too old. Subban is the only D we have that has come up through our farm since Markov. We traded all our other D away and we were in good shape just a few years ago.
Even when they had Markov I wanted another D-man...I could understand not trading for one though since it wasn't an immediate need. In the offseason we deff need to retool. Only old guy I'd keep is Hamrlik. No Gill, No Spacek (prob would have to keep him though), no Picard.
Markov
Subban
Gorges
Hamr
Spacek - if we can't move him
Solid puck moving defenseman - Bieksa a few years ago.
Need more offense from the D.
I agree with you for next year
If we can switch Spacek with Emelin I will be very happy.
Bof on defense's speed. What we need are Dmen who can actually get the shot through. Dallas conceded the point yesterday and block most of the shots coming in. We have zero threat in that blue-line.
Bof on defense's speed. What we need are Dmen who can actually get the shot through. Dallas conceded the point yesterday and block most of the shots coming in. We have zero threat in that blue-line.
We have Weber oh wait he isn't good enough to crack our top 6 How will we ever get our young D experience if we don't let them play.
Don't think the defense is necessarily too slow (Gill IS painful to watch though), but there is a definite lack of the skill/confidence combo that allows defenders to evaluate and then execute some kind of play OTHER THAN the absolute safest one. Safe can only get you so far in this league, and if every breakout involves putting a puck off of glass or boards (even along the ice, as those runners always have an unpredictable "meniscus" of ice at the bottom) on the way to your teammates, you're not going to execute at a high percentage, and you're going to be fighting for 50/50 pucks all game instead of moving the puck with the speed and skill we're supposed to have.
We don't get the puck retrieval from our forwards (or the system they're asked to play) that someone like Colorado does, so fighting for 50/50 pucks all game kills us. And to be honest, the best our defensemen give the forwards on most occasions with the placement of their dumps/chips/passes is more like 30/70, which brings me back to wondering where the disconnect exists in the spectrum between talent and execution.
Don't think the defense is necessarily too slow (Gill IS painful to watch though), but there is a definite lack of the skill/confidence combo that allows defenders to evaluate and then execute some kind of play OTHER THAN the absolute safest one. Safe can only get you so far in this league, and if every breakout involves putting a puck off of glass or boards (even along the ice, as those runners always have an unpredictable "meniscus" of ice at the bottom) on the way to your teammates, you're not going to execute at a high percentage, and you're going to be fighting for 50/50 pucks all game instead of moving the puck with the speed and skill we're supposed to have.
We don't get the puck retrieval from our forwards (or the system they're asked to play) that someone like Colorado does, so fighting for 50/50 pucks all game kills us. And to be honest, the best our defensemen give the forwards on most occasions with the placement of their dumps/chips/passes is more like 30/70, which brings me back to wondering where the disconnect exists in the spectrum between talent and execution.
I don't know about "sucks". I'm not convinced that it takes advantage of our strengths as much as I'm sure JM thinks it's diminishing our weaknesses, but I'm no expert. The guy is a really good coach, and has a lot of hockey brain around him. I'm sure the systems, on paper (and in his mind, lol), are quite clever and effective, and that the opponent's strengths are sufficiently considered. I just think that sometimes some of our players are thinking "why do you want me to do X when I'm so much better at Y?" and it's up to Martin to figure out how and where to meet them in the middle - if he's willing to part from what some might consider stubborn clinging onto of the "JM System".
Of course, it's hard to say if we'll be more/as/less effective if/when they meet there. I always have to believe that the coach knows better than his players, though.
I don't think lack of speed is the main problem with the defense. The problem is that you basically have 5 stay at home defensemen, that have trouble moving the puck, which hurts transition play, and they add little offensive support.
I keep hoping they try Hamrlik/Weber - Spacek/Gorges - Gill/PK until they bring in a viable replacement for Markov. At least these pairings would offer a blend of offense/defense, speed, and a vet playing with a young guy.
I don't think lack of speed is the main problem with the defense. The problem is that you basically have 5 stay at home defensemen, that have trouble moving the puck, which hurts transition play, and they add little offensive support.
I keep hoping they try Hamrlik/Weber - Spacek/Gorges - Gill/PK until they bring in a viable replacement for Markov. At least these pairings would offer a blend of offense/defense, speed, and a vet playing with a young guy.
Interesting. I've always been a proponent of Hammer with PK (I'd swap PK and Weber in your lines, but maybe that's my lack of imagination), but I totally see the merit of what you've done there.
I don't know about "sucks". I'm not convinced that it takes advantage of our strengths as much as I'm sure JM thinks it's diminishing our weaknesses, but I'm no expert. The guy is a really good coach, and has a lot of hockey brain around him. I'm sure the systems, on paper (and in his mind, lol), are quite clever and effective, and that the opponent's strengths are sufficiently considered. I just think that sometimes some of our players are thinking "why do you want me to do X when I'm so much better at Y?" and it's up to Martin to figure out how and where to meet them in the middle - if he's willing to part from what some might consider stubborn clinging onto of the "JM System".
Of course, it's hard to say if we'll be more/as/less effective if/when they meet there. I always have to believe that the coach knows better than his players, though.
I agree that with guys like Spacek Hamrlik and Gill we can't just skate up and down the ice and play run and gun, hence a lot of trpping. I have no problem with that, what pisses me off is that JM seems to pick on certain "whipping boys"(Latendresse AK ) and cut other players a ton of slack(Spacek Picard Pouliot Pyatt).
I agree that with guys like Spacek Hamrlik and Gill we can't just skate up and down the ice and play run and gun, hence a lot of trpping. I have no problem with that, what pisses me off is that JM seems to pick on certain "whipping boys"(Latendresse AK ) and cut other players a ton of slack(Spacek Picard Pouliot Pyatt).
Yeah, as an outsider who isn't there at practices or studying film/standings/stats/reports for hours everyday before hitting the hay, it seems pretty inconsistent to me, too.
To be honest I liked the way both Gill and Subban played on a line together. Gill was able to stay back deeper while Subban took the risks defensively. Usually since Gill was back already and Subban would be rushing back the person wouldn't have much room to make a nice play.
I think right now the lines defensively just aren't working. Even Gorges hasn't seemed that great this year with Gill. It's time to split them up. Keep the special teams together but something has got to give.
Maybe something like this:
Hammer-Weber
Gill-Subban
Gorges-Picard
(Bench Spacek a couple games and put Picard with a solid guy like Gorges a mentor of some kind)
It's not even that I think Spacek has been as bad as people say he is, he's just the most inconsistent defenseman we currently have.
I know Weber as a top 2 sounds nuts but I find he's better defensively than Subban and would compliment Hammer well. Also if Gill indeed does remain a pylon and keeps getting exploited you could always put Spacek on his natural side Spacek-Subban and Gorges-Gill as the 3rd paring with limited ice time. Then Picard is benched and Hammer-Weber stay the top 2. I know it doesn't sound ideal but something needs to be shaken up.
Benching Subban or sending him to the AHL would destroy his development at this point. If anything I'd say Picard/Spacek should be the #7 rotating into the line up as a #6 and Weber and Subban should have almost a guaranteed spot.
Subban loses us games now, 3 years from now he wins you Stanley Cups. You don't bench a player with that kind of upside.
What you see with Subban is what you will get, he should be sent down asap to help this team. He has never been able to play D as he is all O. You can not beat a dead horse and get him to play better in his own end. Use him on the PP and that is it.
What you see with Subban is what you will get, he should be sent down asap to help this team. He has never been able to play D as he is all O. You can not beat a dead horse and get him to play better in his own end. Use him on the PP and that is it.
His defensive play is pretty good, he just plays a bit too high risk with the puck at times. His size and mobility allow him to be hard to beat 1 on 1 defensively.
Not sure if D is too slow or just too old. Subban is the only D we have that has come up through our farm since Markov. We traded all our other D away and we were in good shape just a few years ago.
With subban if he makes a mistake he is generally fast enough to catch up and stop the play, can't say that for the other guys. I heard on RDS that maybe gorges was hurt. I'm disappointed by his play,not sure what is wrong with him.... Hope he's okay maybe its just mental ATM.
I'm surprised a guy like Kostitsyn is sat down but a defenseman isn't. Let Weber play, I'm sure he can't be worse than any one of the defenseman we have now except subban. That means 5 players who aren't playing terrific, let weber play is my opinion.
I don't like Spacek, Gill, Picard and even Hamrlik ( I may be the only 1). Good for me, Hamrlik and Gill won't come back next year and Picard has a good shot to say bye bye too.
I think we should, at trade deadline, trade Spacek and one of our young fowards for Andrew Ference, Boston's stay at home defenseman.
It would add speed because yes, our defensive squad is slow so they are easy to beat in 1-on-1 and that makes them take bad penalities too.
We have Weber oh wait he isn't good enough to crack our top 6 How will we ever get our young D experience if we don't let them play.
Weber can be a solid top 6 dman if given the chance. Thet should play him 20 games straight at D to see what he can do. Moving him around from defence to forward is ridiculous. Having seen him several times with the Kitchener Rangers and Bulldogs, he is a capable, sometimes very good player and can be an asset with Montreal. Definitely has more "upside" than Picard, Gill and Spacek at this point, good for cap space, can supply offence while not hurting the team defensively. Not a slow skating player.
How will we ever get our young D experience if we don't let them play.
