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Old
01-04-2011, 09:57 PM
  #151
Markowicz
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Originally Posted by Richiebottles View Post
Only problem is that we need an Immediate return for AK who is better if not equal.
I thought the same thing but maybe not. Maybe our best pure goal scorer, Cammy, just needs more of a presence on his line to get more open for his shots. There's no doubt that AK is a better offensive talent than Clarkson, but maybe Clarkson can bring the best out of Plex and Cammy, rather than offer nothing as AK is doing right now. Clarkson wouldn't necessarily be my first choice but if you look at the teams that might want to sell, and then factor in what our team really needs, Clarkson is a pretty darn good option.

Think of it this way: We may end up trading AK like we did Halak next year anyway, and unlike Halak, his value will go down, not up, if the recent trend continues in his game. If we can manage to get some interesting picks and prospects for him now because a team might be desperate for scoring or what have you, i think it would be the best case scenario.

All that said, if you think of a better option to replace AK this year, i'm all ears. I thought of Penner before, now Clarkson came up and I like that too.

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01-05-2011, 12:21 AM
  #152
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While I've suggested Clarkson, I don't see him as a top 6, at least not on a constant basis. He's a lot like Chris Neil. He can fill in from time to time (more offensive than Moen), but I'd rather add Clarkson for the 3rd line and a true Top 6 power forward in addition (Penner for AK +?).

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01-05-2011, 12:27 AM
  #153
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clarkson?

I love these boards, anytime I need a good laugh I always find guys like yall

Andrei Kostitsyn is a better player in almost every aspect of the game and the line he forms with Cammy and Pleks were awesime early on.

Patience is all this team needs... no actually its all its fans need

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01-05-2011, 12:29 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
While I've suggested Clarkson, I don't see him as a top 6, at least not on a constant basis. He's a lot like Chris Neil. He can fill in from time to time (more offensive than Moen), but I'd rather add Clarkson for the 3rd line and a true Top 6 power forward in addition (Penner for AK +?).

I don't hate the Penner idea... coming off a great season last year and has adequate stats considering the team he's on and all the injuries they've suffered... but I doubt the oilers would be interested in such a deal...

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01-05-2011, 12:32 AM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
David Clarkson from New Jersey.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
While I've suggested Clarkson, I don't see him as a top 6, at least not on a constant basis. He's a lot like Chris Neil. He can fill in from time to time (more offensive than Moen), but I'd rather add Clarkson for the 3rd line and a true Top 6 power forward in addition (Penner for AK +?).
What is interesting with Clarkson is IMO he could do a tweener job fringe second line power forward/good third line physical player.

I think Clarkson could be a 40 pts player playing with second line quality teamates and playing time look the only time that has happened he had a 43 scoring pace over a 82 season, but there was an injury. That's a fine production for your last top 6 forward IMO. Especilly when he fight, he is gritty, mean and hit alot.

Also if/when we find a better option in the top 6 well he is a pretty good third liner so it's all good !

IMO if the option is Clarkson we cannot trade Kostitsyn, because if we want to keep good scoring depth Clarkson is not enough to replace kostitsyn, other than the case where Max Pac/Eller/Desharnais/Pouliot/etc are making their marks as scoring forwards

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01-05-2011, 12:36 AM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
While I've suggested Clarkson, I don't see him as a top 6, at least not on a constant basis. He's a lot like Chris Neil. He can fill in from time to time (more offensive than Moen), but I'd rather add Clarkson for the 3rd line and a true Top 6 power forward in addition (Penner for AK +?).
Agreed. I just want AK to be replaced by someone with size, work ethic and some semblance of offensive skill. I'm tired of our smallest players (Gionta, Cammy, Plex and now Desharnais from the looks of it) or least skilled players (Darche, Pyatt) being the guys that work the hardest, and I'm sure Martin is as well. Hopefully MaxPac is the beginning of a trend in the right direction.

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01-05-2011, 12:42 AM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Jr View Post
Agreed. I just want AK to be replaced by someone with size, work ethic and some semblance of offensive skill. I'm tired of our smallest players (Gionta, Cammy, Plex and now Desharnais from the looks of it) or least skilled players (Darche, Pyatt) being the guys that work the hardest, and I'm sure Martin is as well. Hopefully MaxPac is the beginning of a trend in the right direction.
An interesting guess from the organisation would be a guy like David Jones. He is a long shot from being a known commodit, but he seem to be scoring at a very good pace the last two season and I could see Colorado wanting to trade him, because they have alot of talent up front.

ATM in 60 match in the last two seasons he has 23 goals and 39 pts, pretty good production, but then again it would a guess.

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01-05-2011, 12:52 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Pierre Jr View Post
I thought the same thing but maybe not. Maybe our best pure goal scorer, Cammy, just needs more of a presence on his line to get more open for his shots. There's no doubt that AK is a better offensive talent than Clarkson, but maybe Clarkson can bring the best out of Plex and Cammy, rather than offer nothing as AK is doing right now. Clarkson wouldn't necessarily be my first choice but if you look at the teams that might want to sell, and then factor in what our team really needs, Clarkson is a pretty darn good option.

Think of it this way: We may end up trading AK like we did Halak next year anyway, and unlike Halak, his value will go down, not up, if the recent trend continues in his game. If we can manage to get some interesting picks and prospects for him now because a team might be desperate for scoring or what have you, i think it would be the best case scenario.

All that said, if you think of a better option to replace AK this year, i'm all ears. I thought of Penner before, now Clarkson came up and I like that too.
You mean the 7point -18 (career high +3) player that averages around 14min??...
You want to replace our 3rd best scorer for him?..
BTW, Clarkson isn't even bigger than A.Ko, and he's certainly not more talented.
I would have no problem adding him to play along side Pouliot-Eller/Desharnais, but not on the 1st line.
I wouldn't mind Penner as he is a top 6 player but there's always a question mark around him. He is inconsistent, like AK.


There is no doubt, I try to somehow get Iginla. I know this is a pipe dream, but he's really the player I would target. Only problem is that Feaster took over and so, a fresh wave might be hitting CGY. I really believe Iginla would put our team over the top if we somehow managed to keep most of our roster intact. Perhaps Feaster will adopt a rebuild mode and that might be our chance to package some prospects + picks. But in all likelihood, he will stay there.

Another guy I wouldn't mind taking a look at, and perhaps he'd be the less costly one, is Umberger. Good size at 6'2 220lbs, 20-25G scorer, 50-55pt getter, only 500K more than A.Ko for salary with an extra year left on contract, is a little more consistent and still rather young at 28.

A little FYI though, none of the established top 6 players (Penner-Iginla-Umberger) have more hits than A.K. Clarkson only has 8 more hits and he actually has the role of some scrapper.
I wouldn't be opposed to trading A.K as long as we get someone that will at least score as much as he is. I believe we will end up moving him anyways, whether it's in a few weeks, or in the summer, eventually he will be moved.

But I'm not interested in getting Clarkson as the main return, at all.

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01-05-2011, 01:13 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You mean the 7point -18 (career high +3) player that averages around 14min??...
You want to replace our 3rd best scorer for him?..
BTW, Clarkson isn't even bigger than A.Ko, and he's certainly not more talented.
I would have no problem adding him to play along side Pouliot-Eller/Desharnais, but not on the 1st line.
I wouldn't mind Penner as he is a top 6 player but there's always a question mark around him. He is inconsistent, like AK.


There is no doubt, I try to somehow get Iginla. I know this is a pipe dream, but he's really the player I would target. Only problem is that Feaster took over and so, a fresh wave might be hitting CGY. I really believe Iginla would put our team over the top if we somehow managed to keep most of our roster intact. Perhaps Feaster will adopt a rebuild mode and that might be our chance to package some prospects + picks. But in all likelihood, he will stay there.

Another guy I wouldn't mind taking a look at, and perhaps he'd be the less costly one, is Umberger. Good size at 6'2 220lbs, 20-25G scorer, 50-55pt getter, only 500K more than A.Ko for salary with an extra year left on contract, is a little more consistent and still rather young at 28.

A little FYI though, none of the established top 6 players (Penner-Iginla-Umberger) have more hits than A.K. Clarkson only has 8 more hits and he actually has the role of some scrapper.
I wouldn't be opposed to trading A.K as long as we get someone that will at least score as much as he is. I believe we will end up moving him anyways, whether it's in a few weeks, or in the summer, eventually he will be moved.

But I'm not interested in getting Clarkson as the main return, at all.
One thing i want to get out of the way is the "hits" factor. I don't care who has more, it doesn't necessarily mean that the hits that were laid out were useful. Makes me think of both Lapierre and Latendresse before they were traded--all they did was pump up the hit stats to make it look like they were being aggressive. they were being useless.

As far as Clarkson is concerned, no he probably won't be better than AK. Honestly, I'm just throwing out ideas, and that one wasn't even mine. Mine was Penner but I must say i like the Umberger one quite a bit. He's important to the team right now but if and when Filatov decides to get his act together and take his spot in the top 6, Umberger could be expendable. Definitely somebody to keep an eye on.

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01-05-2011, 06:24 AM
  #160
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Jared Book on the Habs' current slump.

http://nhlhotstove.com/canadiens-slump-is-not-terminal/

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01-05-2011, 09:23 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Pierre Jr View Post
One thing i want to get out of the way is the "hits" factor. I don't care who has more, it doesn't necessarily mean that the hits that were laid out were useful. Makes me think of both Lapierre and Latendresse before they were traded--all they did was pump up the hit stats to make it look like they were being aggressive. they were being useless.

As far as Clarkson is concerned, no he probably won't be better than AK. Honestly, I'm just throwing out ideas, and that one wasn't even mine. Mine was Penner but I must say i like the Umberger one quite a bit. He's important to the team right now but if and when Filatov decides to get his act together and take his spot in the top 6, Umberger could be expendable. Definitely somebody to keep an eye on.
You're right.

Clarkson is a third liner at best.

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01-05-2011, 09:57 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You mean the 7point -18 (career high +3) player that averages around 14min??...
You want to replace our 3rd best scorer for him?..
BTW, Clarkson isn't even bigger than A.Ko, and he's certainly not more talented.
I would have no problem adding him to play along side Pouliot-Eller/Desharnais, but not on the 1st line.
I wouldn't mind Penner as he is a top 6 player but there's always a question mark around him. He is inconsistent, like AK.


There is no doubt, I try to somehow get Iginla. I know this is a pipe dream, but he's really the player I would target. Only problem is that Feaster took over and so, a fresh wave might be hitting CGY. I really believe Iginla would put our team over the top if we somehow managed to keep most of our roster intact. Perhaps Feaster will adopt a rebuild mode and that might be our chance to package some prospects + picks. But in all likelihood, he will stay there.

Another guy I wouldn't mind taking a look at, and perhaps he'd be the less costly one, is Umberger. Good size at 6'2 220lbs, 20-25G scorer, 50-55pt getter, only 500K more than A.Ko for salary with an extra year left on contract, is a little more consistent and still rather young at 28.

A little FYI though, none of the established top 6 players (Penner-Iginla-Umberger) have more hits than A.K. Clarkson only has 8 more hits and he actually has the role of some scrapper.
I wouldn't be opposed to trading A.K as long as we get someone that will at least score as much as he is. I believe we will end up moving him anyways, whether it's in a few weeks, or in the summer, eventually he will be moved.

But I'm not interested in getting Clarkson as the main return, at all.
The issues I see with adding Umberger...
1-he's at his best at center, he'd be playing 3rd line with us(Desharnais and Eller AHL)
2-at his salary he would cost a 1st and a top prospect to acquire as he is their #2 scorer
3-they are only 2 points out of the playoffs making it unlikely they "sell"
4-he has good size, but like Rolston he doesn't add a physical dimension, actually LESS physical than AK

I agree on Clarkson, I'd love to have him if he was making Moen type money(1.3-1.7 mil), but at 2.67 cap hit for 2+ years he's a pretty expensive mostly 3rd line guy(see Coilby Armstrong). For the role he'd have in the top 6 we can use Pacioretty who is 1/3 the cap hit and costs no assets to acquire plus he has more upside. Insrted I'd try and add a Ben Eager type who can play regular and hit and fight plus his cap is only 1 mil.

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01-05-2011, 09:26 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
You're right.

Clarkson is a third liner at best.
... who can fill-in from time to time on the Top 6.

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01-05-2011, 10:42 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
It's not so much about being more "offensive", it's about an approach to the game that involves playing physically to wear down the opposition.

I couldn't disagree with you more as far as that approach not working in the NHL. Many teams do it, and it's a mistake to think that only the "goon" teams like Philly/Boston use it. If you watch the Red Wings closely, they very much play the body on every shift... even Modano this year, despite his age and not being a "physical" player, was throwing his body around in teh games I saw.

The right coach will get that kind of play out of his personel, and the right management will get rid of those players who can't/won't.

It certainly isn't the only way to have success, but my point is that it is far more exciting to watch as a fan, and imo it is at least as/if not more, effective than the way we currently play.

it's not a matter of running around like an idiot trying to hit just for the sake of hitting and getting consistently out of position as a result, it's about imposing an aggressive style of game on the opposition and forcing them to react, instead of sitting back and waiting for them to take the game to you.

and every year in the playoffs we see the same thing... refs whistles get a little tighter, and teams like us that rely solely on speed tend to end up with less room to move. surviving 4 rounds of playoff hockey is a lot tougher when you are the team taking the punishment instead of the one dishing it out.
Good posts, I would love to see more of this.

Also, when was the last time we had a player in the top 10 in scoring? Mats Naslund?

When your team goes into a slump, teams with superstars can fall back on them and rely on them to help break out of these kinds of slumps. It hurts when you don't have these kinds of players.

Edit: (Checked on Naslund, he did it once back in '86)

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01-05-2011, 11:12 PM
  #165
Kriss E
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The issues I see with adding Umberger...
1-he's at his best at center, he'd be playing 3rd line with us(Desharnais and Eller AHL)
2-at his salary he would cost a 1st and a top prospect to acquire as he is their #2 scorer
3-they are only 2 points out of the playoffs making it unlikely they "sell"
4-he has good size, but like Rolston he doesn't add a physical dimension, actually LESS physical than AK

I agree on Clarkson, I'd love to have him if he was making Moen type money(1.3-1.7 mil), but at 2.67 cap hit for 2+ years he's a pretty expensive mostly 3rd line guy(see Coilby Armstrong). For the role he'd have in the top 6 we can use Pacioretty who is 1/3 the cap hit and costs no assets to acquire plus he has more upside. Insrted I'd try and add a Ben Eager type who can play regular and hit and fight plus his cap is only 1 mil.
Umberger plays the wing. He mainly plays along side Vermette and then Brassard/Filatov alternate. He was used as a center more last year. But he puts up good numbers on the wing as well.

I know he's not overly physical. He brings a little more consistency though and still has imposing size.

In any event, I want Gauthier to somehow fetch us Iginla and then Clarkson.

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