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06-22-2004, 09:31 AM
  #1
Blind Gardien
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wolski falling?

http://www.slam.ca/Slam040622/col_simmons-sun.html

I wonder how this will affect d-day... if he falls to #18, do we still take him?


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06-22-2004, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien
http://www.slam.ca/Slam040622/col_simmons-sun.html

I wonder how this will affect d-day... if he falls to #18, do we still take him?
If he have good interviews, i don't think it will hurt his status. It is'nt anormal to see fights in 18 yeard old boys party, and it's normal that the futur rich guys get the accusations.


If he fall I'd like to get him at 18!!

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06-22-2004, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien
http://www.slam.ca/Slam040622/col_simmons-sun.html</FONT>

I wonder how this will affect d-day... if he falls to #18, do we still take him?
Of course we should. I seriously doubt he'll fall that far though.

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06-22-2004, 11:57 AM
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If he falls down to us, we should get him. We've always doubted his agressiveness and physicality but hey thsi seems to settle the matter no?

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06-22-2004, 12:21 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astaroth
If he falls down to us, we should get him. We've always doubted his agressiveness and physicality but hey thsi seems to settle the matter no?
not at all... ahahaha how come? That doesn't make him more physical on the ice! lol

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06-22-2004, 12:26 PM
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I would be pretty excited if he fell to us and was picked.

But personally I would really like to this team draft some good WESTERN Canadian boys. You know that ones that will go into the corners, stand in front of the net and pay to the price.

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06-22-2004, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuggy
I would be pretty excited if he fell to us and was picked.

But personally I would really like to this team draft some good WESTERN Canadian boys. You know that ones that will go into the corners, stand in front of the net and pay to the price.
Agree with you , the solution ANDREW LADD ,we desesperatly need a true powerforward that can hit,score goals,be very physical and Ladd can be a very great fit there I hope B.G gonna make a trade to move up and pick him,Ladd is a true powerforward I saw him with the Calgary hitmens once and he was very energetic,he has good skills and he was very physical I don't saw any weakness on his game maybe he can improve his skating some peoples said that he had just one good year yeah but that was his ''ROOKIE'' season and he was the best rookie in the WHL with 30 goals 45 assists=75 points that's not bad at all but too bad he gonna go in the top 5 .

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06-22-2004, 12:38 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegreatone
Agree with you , the solution ANDREW LADD ,we desesperatly need a true powerforward that can hit,score goals,be very physical and Ladd can be a very great fit there I hope B.G gonna make a trade to move up and pick him,Ladd is a true powerforward I saw him with the Calgary hitmens once and he was very energetic,he has good skills and he was very physical I don't saw any weakness on his game maybe he can improve his skating some peoples said that he had just one good year yeah but that was his ''ROOKIE'' season and he was the best rookie in the WHL with 30 goals 45 assists=75 points that's not bad at all but too bad he gonna go in the top 5 .
Ladd would be great! But as you said, we would have to move into the top 5 in order to get him. And moving into the top 5 of the draft is going to be pretty pricey.

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06-22-2004, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuggy
I would be pretty excited if he fell to us and was picked.

But personally I would really like to this team draft some good WESTERN Canadian boys. You know that ones that will go into the corners, stand in front of the net and pay to the price.
Terry Ryan ('95) WHL
Matt Higgins('96) WHL
David Wilkie ('92) WHL

Ya that made wonders for us in the Past!!

BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE that's what gives you the best chance of getting a future NHLer.

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06-22-2004, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuggy
Ladd would be great! But as you said, we would have to move into the top 5 in order to get him. And moving into the top 5 of the draft is going to be pretty pricey.

The price gonna be heavy for sure !! but it's gonna be the first time we can get a true POWER FORWARD without giving the half of our team .

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06-22-2004, 12:58 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHLcrazy
Terry Ryan ('95) WHL
Matt Higgins('96) WHL
David Wilkie ('92) WHL

Ya that made wonders for us in the Past!!

BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE that's what gives you the best chance of getting a future NHLer.
Ryan couldn't skate and was a product of Langkow.
Higgins simply stank. He had nothing impressive... it was a weak draft.
Wilkie was a somewhat solid D. His hockey sense was lacking, but he really had good tools, otherwise. He was a good pick... that turned badly.

You can't ignore one league due to past mistakes or bad experiences... Ladd seems to be a good skater that ATLEAST would become a 3rd liner.

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06-22-2004, 01:05 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KILLger
.
You can't ignore one league due to past mistakes or bad experiences... Ladd seems to be a good skater that ATLEAST would become a 3rd liner.
Exactly my point! it doesn't matter where the player comes from (WHL,OHL,QMJHL,Euro...). I have nothing against WHLers (it's actually IMO the best of the 3 junior canadian league) we shouln't go for a player BECAUSE he comes from a certain league.

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06-22-2004, 02:12 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHLcrazy
Terry Ryan ('95) WHL
Matt Higgins('96) WHL
David Wilkie ('92) WHL

Ya that made wonders for us in the Past!!

BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE that's what gives you the best chance of getting a future NHLer.
I dont see the correlation. Habs were drafting very poorly through that period, we had plenty of busts, from every junior league and european country, not just WHL.

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06-22-2004, 02:20 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KILLger
Ryan couldn't skate and was a product of Langkow.
Higgins simply stank. He had nothing impressive... it was a weak draft.
Wilkie was a somewhat solid D. His hockey sense was lacking, but he really had good tools, otherwise. He was a good pick... that turned badly.

You can't ignore one league due to past mistakes or bad experiences... Ladd seems to be a good skater that ATLEAST would become a 3rd liner.
Wilkie didn't plan out because of consecutive concussions. He was so scared on the ice and therefore he became a bust.

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06-22-2004, 02:28 PM
  #15
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Terry Ryan wasn't a bad pick like everyone here thinks*... First of all, you have to see Savard's face when Doan was drafted. He was the guy they were aimed for sure. Also, Ryan had some skills. If he worked a little bit harder, he would have became a NHLer. But he was stupid and refused to spend time in the minors and started to hate the habs for not putting him in the NHL right away. He stopped to work like an idiot an busted... Wilkie had some tools too. Anyways, you never know what will happen with our prospects, that's all..

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06-22-2004, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegreatone
Agree with you , the solution ANDREW LADD ,we desesperatly need a true powerforward that can hit,score goals,be very physical and Ladd can be a very great fit there I hope B.G gonna make a trade to move up and pick him,Ladd is a true powerforward
Is he really and truly a "true powerforward", though? I like him and all and he scored like 3 goals in the game I watched, but I wasn't sure he was reeeally all that physical or aggressive. He seemed like sort of a better-skating Jason Ward. (I like Jason Ward, mind you -- and he was pretty good in juniors too).

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06-22-2004, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien
Is he really and truly a "true powerforward", though? I like him and all and he scored like 3 goals in the game I watched, but I wasn't sure he was reeeally all that physical or aggressive. He seemed like sort of a better-skating Jason Ward. (I like Jason Ward, mind you -- and he was pretty good in juniors too).
I saw him once Blind gardien in this game he score twice and he was VERY PHYSICAL I remember he gave a mounstruous bodycheck to a guy but that's not my point I meant he is using his size for trying to go in front of the net what you don't call that a POWER FORWARD ??? the definition of a power forward is a guy with a lot of size and use the size to dominate a game he don't necesseraly need skills to dominate the game but Ladd has skills I like his shot A LOT he has a very good wrist shot I don't saw any weakness on his game his skating is average but not bad so he has more tools to perform at the professional level then Ward but from what I've seen he is agressive and physical.

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06-22-2004, 02:50 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatnik
If he have good interviews, i don't think it will hurt his status. It is'nt anormal to see fights in 18 yeard old boys party, and it's normal that the futur rich guys get the accusations.
If it's that normal, how come we aren't reading it about the other 200-some 18 year old boys in this draft?

A guy ends up in the hospital and the police charge Wolski with assault? What was he even doing being in that situatioin, let alone being one of the main combatants? I mean sure, you want to know him personally, and not judge until the facts are known, and contrast this to whatever character he showed in his interview... but if he showed any character faults before this, it ought to raise eyebrows enough to drop him back in the order. I'd pass on him at #18.

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06-22-2004, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marksman2
I dont see the correlation. Habs were drafting very poorly through that period, we had plenty of busts, from every junior league and european country, not just WHL.
My point was that i'm not for the "we should draft a big bad guy from the west" philosophy, that Houle did a few years back when better players are available b4...

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06-22-2004, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien
If it's that normal, how come we aren't reading it about the other 200-some 18 year old boys in this draft?

A guy ends up in the hospital and the police charge Wolski with assault? What was he even doing being in that situatioin, let alone being one of the main combatants? I mean sure, you want to know him personally, and not judge until the facts are known, and contrast this to whatever character he showed in his interview... but if he showed any character faults before this, it ought to raise eyebrows enough to drop him back in the order. I'd pass on him at #18.
Boys will be boys Blind Gardien. Sure you don't hear about fights from the other 200 players but I'm pretty confident that some of them have been in fights. I wouldn't pass on him just because of this.

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06-22-2004, 03:29 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHLcrazy
My point was that i'm not for the "we should draft a big bad guy from the west" philosophy, that Houle did a few years back when better players are available b4...
You have to go back to Savard for "big bad guy from the West", not Houle. I would say Terry Ryan, Brent Bilodeau, and Turner Stevenson are the representatives of "big bad guys from the West" in our 1st round history.

(Other Westerners in the first round, like Vallis, Wilkie, Pederson, and Higgins were not of the particularly "bad" variety... at least, they were picked for skill, not for toughness or grit.)

Anyway, there isn't really a big bad guy from the West projected to be drafted in our vicinity this year, so it's a fairly moot point. The biggest and baddest guy is a Slovak playing in the OHL, and bigness and badness seems to be in short supply in this year's first round, so I don't think there's any danger of relapsing into that philosophy.

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06-22-2004, 03:47 PM
  #22
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Speaking of Terry Ryan, I was watching the 1995 Entry Draft on the NHL Network last night, and saw videos of Ryan in the WHL for the first time, since I wasn't really following the NHL draft very closely at the time (I was only 8). One thing is for sure, Savard drafted him based on team needs (size and strenght), and not based on the BPA theory. Ryan's skating was just awful. Our scouting staff has really made a mistake on this pick. Granted that going for size was one of Serge Savard's priorities back then, but with guys like Radek Dvorak and Petr Sykora still on the board at 8th overall, he could have done much better than that (I guess same could be said about other teams who have done the same mistake too, but this is not my point). My point is I cannot see how our scouting staff hasn't realized Ryan was an horrible skater.

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06-22-2004, 04:35 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsFan
My point is I cannot see how our scouting staff hasn't realized Ryan was an horrible skater.
I think they did realise he was a horrible skater. Everybody did. But it was kind of a time when players like Brendan Shanahan, Owen Nolan, Keith Tkachuk, you know, were all the rage. And I can't speak for Tkachuk, but I saw enough of Nolan and Shanahan to think that their skating was pretty awful at 17-18 too. But after they settled into the NHL (and it took them a few years of doing nothing to do it), they set a prototype that lots of teams wanted to copy. I can only assume that the Habs decided they'd be able to get Ryan to work on his skating and become that kind of player too.

And you know what? I still say he might have done it! Except the injuries set in, and Ryan kind of got lost in the shuffle in the change from Savard to Houle, and buried in the system because he was "Savard's pick", and instead of pushing himself even harder he just got frustrated and essentially gave in. He just didn't have his head in the right place, he thought he needed to impress them by fighting all the time, he didn't improve his skating, he always seemed to get injured... it just didn't work out.

But it wasn't a bad pick. It was a mediocre-bad draft, and a lot of teams walked away with busts in that one. At least we picked Ryan *after* Doan. We could have picked Kilger or Kelly *ahead* of him, like some teams did.

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06-22-2004, 04:40 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisson11
Boys will be boys Blind Gardien. Sure you don't hear about fights from the other 200 players but I'm pretty confident that some of them have been in fights. I wouldn't pass on him just because of this.
I'm sure some of them have. At least one other guy is in some trouble with the law too for even worse allegations. But I wouldn't draft him either. We don't know the full story yet (and we probably never will), so I can't be *too* hard on Wolski. I just know that since I'm satisfied with a bunch of other guys slated to be drafted in that range, this added question mark hanging over Wolski's head would be enough for me to pass on him, given that I don't know anything else about his character.

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06-22-2004, 05:38 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien
I'm sure some of them have. At least one other guy is in some trouble with the law too for even worse allegations. But I wouldn't draft him either. We don't know the full story yet (and we probably never will), so I can't be *too* hard on Wolski. I just know that since I'm satisfied with a bunch of other guys slated to be drafted in that range, this added question mark hanging over Wolski's head would be enough for me to pass on him, given that I don't know anything else about his character.
Thornton's had a situation like this as well.

I don't think this situation is a testament to anything--especially not Wolski's character. As someone else has mentioned earlier: people who are rich or about to strike it big tend to get targetted by opportunists or those who are jealous. It's entirely plausible that Wolski is not to blame at all here.

As such, I don't think it would have an effect on his draft status--at least on the surface.

NHL organizations that are looking to draft Wolski will know more about the situation and will get a chance to speak to him about it. That part of things could have an effect, but we're not privvy to any such information, so it also isn't our place to state that it will have an effect with any certainty.

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