HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Scott Gomez appreciation thread.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-12-2010, 07:31 PM
  #1
Habiton
Registered User
 
Habiton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 907
vCash: 500
Scott Gomez

I hadn't realize until now how much we need him. To me the team seemed a bit more lifeless and for what ever reason couldn't breakout well and couldn't break into the other teams zones very well.

I will come right out and admit it, I was the first one to buy him a ticket out but I was wrong. We need him. Hopefully he is back because Philly isn't a weak team.

And its obviously not a very good sample size, however I do believe that was a pretty big factor.

I would say that the trade with the rangers was a damn good one, thanks Gainey and Gauthier.

What he brings to the team, regardless of point production, is invaluable imo.

/rant.

Habiton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 07:39 PM
  #2
habtastic
Registered User
 
habtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mumbai via MTL
Country: India
Posts: 9,537
vCash: 500
well I did and have mentioned it before.

people will still say we didn't lose cuz we didn't have Gomez which is partially right, but I (and I've read numerous posts alluding to this) think he's crucial in generating offense and isn't close to as bad as people have made him out to be. We do need him. I knew that before he missed those games. If we're going to do the Max Pac thing, we're going to need a somebody to get him the puck. But everyone Gomez plays with struggles! That's cuz they don't play very well/make terrible decisions/have Moen as the other winger. Cammy only started scoring cuz he's trying harder and his shots are going in. It's a misleading stat. Gionta's goals have started going in for the same reason (more effort in front of the net, bounces, he's beating people with his shot). Pleky is the best by far, but it's not JUST cuz of Plex that those two have been scoring, it's been on their own accord too. Pleky will make anyone better, but we need someone else to rush end to end since our D sure as hell can't. Gotta get into the O zone.

habtastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 07:45 PM
  #3
toshiro
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Western Canuckland
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,951
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to toshiro
Scott Gomez went from an integral part of a New Jersey cup run to this. Its almost unbelieveable. Is he injured or sick? It reminds me of Dave Balon's falloff and he was later diagnosed with MS.

toshiro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 07:48 PM
  #4
Habiton
Registered User
 
Habiton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 907
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
well I did and have mentioned it before.

people will still say we didn't lose cuz we didn't have Gomez which is partially right, but I (and I've read numerous posts alluding to this) think he's crucial in generating offense and isn't close to as bad as people have made him out to be. We do need him. I knew that before he missed those games. If we're going to do the Max Pac thing, we're going to need a somebody to get him the puck. But everyone Gomez plays with struggles! That's cuz they don't play very well/make terrible decisions/have Moen as the other winger. Cammy only started scoring cuz he's trying harder and his shots are going in. It's a misleading stat. Gionta's goals have started going in for the same reason (more effort in front of the net, bounces, he's beating people with his shot). Pleky is the best by far, but it's not JUST cuz of Plex that those two have been scoring, it's been on their own accord too. Pleky will make anyone better, but we need someone else to rush end to end since our D sure as hell can't. Gotta get into the O zone.
Agreed. He doesn't deserve the bashing he gets, and I hope that a lot of other fans start to realize that. He is an integral part of this team. Nobody can produce at a high rate with Moen as a winger. Hopefully Patches can help give Gio and Gomez some room while also being able to contribute offensively. If he does that he will surpass my expectations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toshiro View Post
Scott Gomez went from an integral part of a New Jersey cup run to this. Its almost unbelieveable. Is he injured or sick? It reminds me of Dave Balon's falloff and he was later diagnosed with MS.
He left in the middle of the game, and he said its his lower body. The speculation, unless it has changed, is that its his groin. I dont think he is sick, but if you follow football remember Cutler? He lost like 25lbs and was sick until they figured out he has diabetes, they treated him and now he is playing better than ever (i havent followed football this season so I dont know how good he is playing now)

Habiton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 09:52 PM
  #5
CrAzYNiNe
Registered User
 
CrAzYNiNe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,111
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to CrAzYNiNe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habiton View Post
Agreed. He doesn't deserve the bashing he gets, and I hope that a lot of other fans start to realize that. He is an integral part of this team. Nobody can produce at a high rate with Moen as a winger. Hopefully Patches can help give Gio and Gomez some room while also being able to contribute offensively. If he does that he will surpass my expectations.



He left in the middle of the game, and he said its his lower body. The speculation, unless it has changed, is that its his groin. I dont think he is sick, but if you follow football remember Cutler? He lost like 25lbs and was sick until they figured out he has diabetes, they treated him and now he is playing better than ever (i havent followed football this season so I dont know how good he is playing now)
I think i heard ankle

CrAzYNiNe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 09:54 PM
  #6
Hackett
HF Needs Feeny
 
Hackett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,871
vCash: 500
I have no problem with gomez' game when his feet are moving. He becomes an elusive player and it opens room for his wingers. What I dont like is how he stops skating in the offensive zone. This is when he begins to make poor percentage plays. He's gotta get to the net on a more consistent basis instead of stopping at the half boards or waiting behind the net. Its a matter of will, and that bothers me.

All of his goals come from within 5 feet of the net, so its no surprise where he should go. If nothing else, he becomes a nuisance for the goalie instead of a nobody on the perimeter

Hackett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 11:01 PM
  #7
Belso
Registered User
 
Belso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,700
vCash: 500
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

Gomez sits at 88th for point (9), 128th for +/- (-2), 77th for shot on net (44), 71th for goal/shot%, 42nd in ppg (2), 54th on face-offs (48.5%) and he's supposed to be an elite passer but sits at 94th (5) for all centers.. Not forwards.. CENTERS..

If you consider there are 30 teams. you'd expect to be within the top 60 in each category on average to be considered at least a top 2 Center. His overall stats barely make him a third line center.

And to top it off, he's getting his share of quality minutes on the PP and always plays with good wingers (except Moen).

So tell me what exactly he's doing well to contribute to the success of the team.. Yes, he can skate the puck out.. And, then what?

Montreal lost 2 in a row in his absence.. So? One of those loses was at the hands of the best team in the West. And after trying their butts off to win against them, they have to play the next night in Toronto (2 away games). So they didn't score against Toronto who had Phaneuf back in the line up but they could have been tired.

You can't win all your games. 2 away games back to back aren't easy to win.

So I don't think one player who has not done much great things this season could have had such a big impact in winning those last two games.

Edit:

I wasn't going to mention it but I can't help it.. There is one category where he is in the top ten; Salary. He sits at 7th ($8M), 8th if you count the entire league.
http://www.capgeek.com/leaders.php?t...max_results=25


Last edited by Belso: 12-12-2010 at 11:14 PM.
Belso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 11:29 PM
  #8
Habiton
Registered User
 
Habiton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 907
vCash: 500
You dont understand, he is able to clear our zone and help the D. He is very responsible defensively. Not only that he gets us in the zone, its not his fault that Moen cant advance the puck, he brings it in, makes good passes, and most important helps on the defensive size of the game.

Stats in hockey are extremely misleading, by that logic you could say that Clarke McArthur is a franchise player as he is on pace for around 62 points and he is under 25 years old, and at one million, you would say that Tim Thomas is better than Patrick Roy. Your making terrible assumptions.

Gomez also helps the mental side of the game, he encourages the team, he is a great guy to have around the locker room at it seems to me that is a very vocal and funny guy which really lightens the frustration and if you ever played hockey you would know that 99% of players play like crap when their mad.

Oh and you say he always plays with top quality wingers? Only 50% of his wingers are, unless you consider Pyatt, Moen and Darche elite in which case I shouldnt be arguing anything with you.

Habiton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2010, 11:45 PM
  #9
tinyzombies
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: LA via Montreal
Posts: 11,830
vCash: 500
I'm not concerned about Gomez. He'll be there when it matters.

tinyzombies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2010, 09:32 AM
  #10
Saint Patrick
2 rings in my hears
 
Saint Patrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belso View Post
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

Gomez sits at 88th for point (9), 128th for +/- (-2), 77th for shot on net (44), 71th for goal/shot%, 42nd in ppg (2), 54th on face-offs (48.5%) and he's supposed to be an elite passer but sits at 94th (5) for all centers.. Not forwards.. CENTERS..

If you consider there are 30 teams. you'd expect to be within the top 60 in each category on average to be considered at least a top 2 Center. His overall stats barely make him a third line center.

And to top it off, he's getting his share of quality minutes on the PP and always plays with good wingers (except Moen).

So tell me what exactly he's doing well to contribute to the success of the team.. Yes, he can skate the puck out.. And, then what?

Montreal lost 2 in a row in his absence.. So? One of those loses was at the hands of the best team in the West. And after trying their butts off to win against them, they have to play the next night in Toronto (2 away games). So they didn't score against Toronto who had Phaneuf back in the line up but they could have been tired.

You can't win all your games. 2 away games back to back aren't easy to win.

So I don't think one player who has not done much great things this season could have had such a big impact in winning those last two games.

Edit:

I wasn't going to mention it but I can't help it.. There is one category where he is in the top ten; Salary. He sits at 7th ($8M), 8th if you count the entire league.
http://www.capgeek.com/leaders.php?t...max_results=25


People will use any reason to explain a loss. We lost 2 games, plain and simple. I cant even remember the last time we won two away games in two nights.

Gomez hasnt been a factor this whole season, he certainly wouldnt have made a huge difference in two games.

Saint Patrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2010, 09:37 AM
  #11
Pleky Roks
Registered User
 
Pleky Roks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,227
vCash: 500
Well....nobody likes to admit it, but Gomez is a huge part of the Habs team and success, even if he isn't putting up a ton of points.

Gomez is one of the best 2-way players in the NHL and when he isn't in the lineup, its a huge hole to fill. Yes, he doesn't score a lot of points and yes he is overpaid, but he is still valuable to the Habs and it showed against the Red Wings and Leafs!!!

Pleky Roks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2010, 09:47 AM
  #12
otto bond
Registered User
 
otto bond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,133
vCash: 500
It boiles down to how much money he makes and the impact it has on the cap overall.
His play is decent, not off an elite center in all 3 zones but opens thing up and creates miss matches.
He's not a scorer and needs finishers on his wings to maximize his role. Yes he's overpaid but I believe that with him, we can and will win a cup.
At the end of the day, that's all that matters and that the only way his salary will be somewhat justified for some fans out there.

otto bond is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2010, 09:57 AM
  #13
CareyClutch
Doing the job
 
CareyClutch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: North Korea
Posts: 4,945
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to CareyClutch
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belso View Post






I wasn't going to mention it but I can't help it.. There is one category where he is in the top ten; Salary. He sits at 7th ($8M), 8th if you count the entire league.
you bring something fresh and new to the debate.

CareyClutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2010, 10:02 AM
  #14
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 15,179
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
It boiles down to how much money he makes and the impact it has on the cap overall.
His play is decent, not off an elite center in all 3 zones but opens thing up and creates miss matches.
He's not a scorer and needs finishers on his wings to maximize his role. Yes he's overpaid but I believe that with him, we can and will win a cup.
At the end of the day, that's all that matters and that the only way his salary will be somewhat justified for some fans out there.
What does his contract have in common with a prison sentence?

We have to wait patiently for it to expire. It won't be commuted, or at least not yet. Let's hope he remains a model inmate.

Teufelsdreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2010, 10:05 AM
  #15
Jigger77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,016
vCash: 500
Thank you for this thread finally someone else who sees it. The team is lifeless without him. Why? Because Gomez, despite obviously being snakebitten in terms of points this year, and yes, being overpaid (I don't think anyone will argue that he's worth 7 mil) is a premier skater, puck handler and passer in this league. He can break the trap by himself and he is very intelligent with the puck on the powerplay. Another thing about Gomez is that he's very good defensively and rarely coughs up the puck in dangerous positions. Like I've said before. Even if he's not scoring when he's on the ice more often than not we're buzzing and creating something offensively meaning the other team doesn't have the puck. He also gets a lot of 3rd assists which obviously don't show up on the scoresheet.

We definitely need him back in the lineup.

Jigger77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2010, 10:14 AM
  #16
Bad Natey
#feelthelove
 
Bad Natey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Habville
Country: Canada
Posts: 48,010
vCash: 500
He's plays hard, wears his heart on his sleeve, and is a team first kind of guy. And that'd be fine if he was paid $3M or less and played on the 3rd line. Problem is he chews up almost enough cap space for two productive top-6 type players. On top of that, he continues to sit in our top-2 and fails to contribute offensively.

Either way, he definitely deserves to be in the top-12. He's a specialist at gaining the zone, he is above average defensively, and works hard. Problem is .. he's just not that good offensively. Basically he's like a MAB for us. A specialist that should be used as such - at least until we've tried every solution of replacing him in the top-6. His last two goals were pure luck and with huge, huge assists to Darche. It's too bad, I was pulling for him.

His Begin-like penalties in the playoffs probably don't help my assessment.

As far as looking bad the past two games? First, we played hard versus the Wings and looked dead versus Toronto. Secondly, even Gomez is better than Halpern and Moen with Cammalleri. We should try Desharnais, but we won't.

Bad Natey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2010, 10:22 AM
  #17
11Goat11
Inside her
 
11Goat11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,008
vCash: 500
I agree 100% with the OP. I knew we would have trouble with Detroit and the Leafs with him out of the lineup. He is integral to our team system and makes the Habs a much more solid club.

I don't think his salary has become an obstacle yet, I doubt we would have been in the running for any big name free agents this offseason and we wouldn't have been able to keep Halak and Price together anyway. I don't care what he is paid and the team has gone further with him than anytime since 93, until it's proven that his salary is a detriment to the team I will continue to support the move for him.

11Goat11 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2010, 10:24 AM
  #18
habdynasty
Registered User
 
habdynasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,408
vCash: 500
The habs miss Gomez bigtime, hopefully this injury isn't too serious.

habdynasty is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2010, 10:28 AM
  #19
m00ks
Registered User
 
m00ks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,911
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
He's plays hard, wears his heart on his sleeve, and is a team first kind of guy. And that'd be fine if he was paid $3M or less and played on the 3rd line. Problem is he chews up almost enough cap space for two productive top-6 type players. On top of that, he continues to sit in our top-2 and fails to contribute offensively.

Either way, he definitely deserves to be in the top-12. He's a specialist at gaining the zone, he is above average defensively, and works hard. Problem is .. he's just not that good offensively. Basically he's like a MAB for us. A specialist that should be used as such - at least until we've tried every solution of replacing him in the top-6. His last two goals were pure luck and with huge, huge assists to Darche. It's too bad, I was pulling for him.

His Begin-like penalties in the playoffs probably don't help my assessment.

As far as looking bad the past two games? First, we played hard versus the Wings and looked dead versus Toronto. Secondly, even Gomez is better than Halpern and Moen with Cammalleri. We should try Desharnais, but we won't.
I don't buy this notion that he's some sort of third line specialist. He's realistically a 60-70 point guy that averages close to 50 assists a season. I don't think anyone can question that he's top 6 talent. Just need to get him going.

m00ks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2010, 10:40 AM
  #20
onebighockeyfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,607
vCash: 500
Well, Gomez would be the number one centre fr the Leafs no problem.
He's better than his stats lead you to believe.
I'm not concerned about his play, I just want him back in the lineup

onebighockeyfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2010, 10:47 AM
  #21
Jigger77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,016
vCash: 500
Another argument you hear a lot and I find has no depth is that "we could get 2 players that are as good as him for half the price". That may or may not be true, but fact is, that is a lot easier said than done (keeping in mind these players would have to have the speed, defensive ability, experience, cup winning etc). Can't emphasize the speed factor enough, especially for a team like the Habs who rely on speed to succeed.

Also, as of now, regardless of salary, the Habs are a better team with him in the lineup. That's what's most important (to me anyway).

Jigger77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2010, 10:52 AM
  #22
buddahsmoka1
Registered User
 
buddahsmoka1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: México, D.F.
Country: Mexico
Posts: 25,042
vCash: 500
The thing you need to realize with Gomez is its not just about gaining the zone, or puck carrying, or putting up points, its the match ups. We have two excellent two way centers in Gomez and Plekanec. When both are in the lineup, Martin can use them to his advantage and get the matchups he wants. Having Gomez behind Plekanec takes some of the more marquee opposing lines off of the first line, allowing weaker competition which creates more space and time for Plekanec to work. With one of them out, it breaks down significantly, and Eller and Halpern have to increase their duties. Not that they are bad players by any stretch, but they are not on the same level as the top 2. With all the centers healthy, we have copious amounts of options for matchups and faceoffs at Martin's disposal.

That, right there, is why Gomez is so important to the club, among other things, and why the team is much weaker as a whole with him out of the lineup.

buddahsmoka1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2010, 10:53 AM
  #23
Jigger77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,016
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
The thing you need to realize with Gomez is its not just about gaining the zone, or puck carrying, or putting up points, its the match ups. We have two excellent two way centers in Gomez and Plekanec. When both are in the lineup, Martin can use them to his advantage and get the matchups he wants. Having Gomez behind Plekanec takes some of the more marquee opposing lines off of the first line, allowing weaker competition which creates more space and time for Plekanec to work. With one of them out, it breaks down significantly, and Eller and Halpern have to increase their duties. Not that they are bad players by any stretch, but they are not on the same level as the top 2. With all the centers healthy, we have copious amounts of options for matchups and faceoffs at Martin's disposal.

That, right there, is why Gomez is so important to the club, among other things, and why the team is much weaker as a whole with him out of the lineup.
That's another good point. Halpern's looked great this year but I thought he struggled the other night in a more prominent role. He looked slow.

Jigger77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2010, 11:16 AM
  #24
Miller Time
Registered User
 
Miller Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 9,022
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
The thing you need to realize with Gomez is its not just about gaining the zone, or puck carrying, or putting up points, its the match ups. We have two excellent two way centers in Gomez and Plekanec. When both are in the lineup, Martin can use them to his advantage and get the matchups he wants. Having Gomez behind Plekanec takes some of the more marquee opposing lines off of the first line, allowing weaker competition which creates more space and time for Plekanec to work. With one of them out, it breaks down significantly, and Eller and Halpern have to increase their duties. Not that they are bad players by any stretch, but they are not on the same level as the top 2. With all the centers healthy, we have copious amounts of options for matchups and faceoffs at Martin's disposal.

That, right there, is why Gomez is so important to the club, among other things, and why the team is much weaker as a whole with him out of the lineup.
No doubt that the team is weaker as a whole without Gomez in the lineup... that should go without saying. He is the #2 centre isn't he?

but aside from the obvious that Gomez is a better player than Boyd/Desharnais/whomever gets inserted into the lineup, the fact remains that Gomez has underperformed grossly in his role as a #2 centre so far this season.

as the earlier poster pointed out, statistically he's no better than a "3rd line" centre.
I hope he can come back ready to contribute in the role we need him to perform, but if he continues to underwhelm, Gauthier needs to find a way to either move him, or find a way to add someone capable of contributing what the team needs from a top 6 centre while relegating him to a bottom 6 role (which his play so far this year reflects).

Miller Time is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2010, 11:32 AM
  #25
CrAzYNiNe
Registered User
 
CrAzYNiNe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,111
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to CrAzYNiNe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
No doubt that the team is weaker as a whole without Gomez in the lineup... that should go without saying. He is the #2 centre isn't he?

but aside from the obvious that Gomez is a better player than Boyd/Desharnais/whomever gets inserted into the lineup, the fact remains that Gomez has underperformed grossly in his role as a #2 centre so far this season.

as the earlier poster pointed out, statistically he's no better than a "3rd line" centre.
I hope he can come back ready to contribute in the role we need him to perform, but if he continues to underwhelm, Gauthier needs to find a way to either move him, or find a way to add someone capable of contributing what the team needs from a top 6 centre while relegating him to a bottom 6 role (which his play so far this year reflects).
He's help the team win by having the other teams better (cant say best) defensive players playing against him, leaving Halpern or Ellers line to be defended by a "weaker" opposition. Would love Gomez to be lighting the lamp, but after the last 2 games, you can see he does offer more to the team then stats, believe it or not.

CrAzYNiNe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:01 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.