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Ulf Samuelsson rant/question.

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Old
12-24-2010, 11:49 PM
  #1
connellc
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Ulf Samuelsson rant/question.

Let me get this off my chest. Ulf Samuelsson, although a great all around defenseman, was one of the biggest cheap shot artist of his time. Was there anyone else who had more disrespect for "the code" then him? First off, he was a tough guy who wore a visor and was wearing anti-tank equipment during his entire career. If that wasn't bad enough he played a tough style, agitated players beyond belief and often faked injuries. He's also responsible for ending the careers of Mondue and Neely. Ulf almost never dropped the gloves when asked later in his career. With that being said, most teams would have had him in a heart beat and he did contribute to multiple Stanley cups.

The reason why I being this thread up is because Ulf is known as one of the dirtiest players, however, was he as dirty as people make him out to be? We all know that there were tons of dirty hockey during the late 80's and 90's. It's obvious he was a pest but my most important question is this. In your opinion, did he intend to injure or "take players out"

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12-25-2010, 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by connellc View Post
Let me get this off my chest. Ulf Samuelsson, although a great all around defenseman, was one of the biggest cheap shot artist of his time. Was there anyone else who had more disrespect for "the code" then him? First off, he was a tough guy who wore a visor and was wearing anti-tank equipment during his entire career. If that wasn't bad enough he played a tough style, agitated players beyond belief and often faked injuries. He's also responsible for ending the careers of Mondue and Neely. Ulf almost never dropped the gloves when asked later in his career. With that being said, most teams would have had him in a heart beat and he did contribute to multiple Stanley cups.

The reason why I being this thread up is because Ulf is known as one of the dirtiest players, however, was he as dirty as people make him out to be? We all know that there were tons of dirty hockey during the late 80's and 90's. It's obvious he was a pest but my most important question is this. In your opinion, did he intend to injure or "take players out"
You've been watching Don Cherry way too much. There's been alot worse guys in the league and there probably will be after. He didn't fake injuries often (Actually can't remember one instance when he faked it). Neely ended his own career and Mondeu was an accident. He didnt drop the gloves often but he did do it on at times.

Tough guy with a visor? Do you think that Douglas Murray or Iginla is cheap?

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12-25-2010, 06:13 AM
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he did the knee to knee sometimes, on skrudland and bellows for example, but he wasn't more cheap than bryan marchment

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12-25-2010, 06:25 AM
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Did he walk the line, often crossing it? Yeah... so what. You see guys like Messier and Lindros taking shots too and IMO those guys were just as dirty as Ulf. I also think he got as much as he gave.

IMO he's going to be the next great NHL coach.

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12-25-2010, 10:33 AM
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Did he walk the line, often crossing it? Yeah... so what. You see guys like Messier and Lindros taking shots too and IMO those guys were just as dirty as Ulf. I also think he got as much as he gave.

IMO he's going to be the next great NHL coach.
Ulf?!?!?!

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12-25-2010, 11:39 AM
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He didn't fake injuries often (Actually can't remember one instance when he faked it).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEu_i71aZIg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0DyMgDQcrE


The difference between Iginla and Murray is that they drop the gloves when called upon and answer the bell. The main gripe I have with Ulf is that he took as many liberties with the code more than any player in the history of the game. These liberties included diving, faking injuries, extra padding, being a pest without stepping up the plate, and his constant kneeing. During the beginning of his career he fought a bit, but basically refused to drop the gloves during the 1990's. I'm wondering if his motivations were "to take players out."

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12-25-2010, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by connellc View Post
Let me get this off my chest. Ulf Samuelsson, although a great all around defenseman, was one of the biggest cheap shot artist of his time. Was there anyone else who had more disrespect for "the code" then him? First off, he was a tough guy who wore a visor and was wearing anti-tank equipment during his entire career. If that wasn't bad enough he played a tough style, agitated players beyond belief and often faked injuries. He's also responsible for ending the careers of Mondue and Neely. Ulf almost never dropped the gloves when asked later in his career. With that being said, most teams would have had him in a heart beat and he did contribute to multiple Stanley cups.

The reason why I being this thread up is because Ulf is known as one of the dirtiest players, however, was he as dirty as people make him out to be? We all know that there were tons of dirty hockey during the late 80's and 90's. It's obvious he was a pest but my most important question is this. In your opinion, did he intend to injure or "take players out"
Yes, he generally went out of his way to hurt people.

It really speaks volumes as to what people thought of Ulf that most players and coaches around the league praised Domi's cheap shot knockout of Ulf when it happened.

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12-25-2010, 01:21 PM
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Not sure that Ulf was any worse than Messier or Bobby Clarke who are both warriors, it's a Don Cherry thing, if Ulf were from North Bay Don would have loved him.

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12-25-2010, 02:22 PM
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Yes, he generally went out of his way to hurt people.

It really speaks volumes as to what people thought of Ulf that most players and coaches around the league praised Domi's cheap shot knockout of Ulf when it happened.

I think the fact that not one teammate made an effort to come to his assistance after Domi dropped him says all you need to know about the kind of player Ulf Samuelsson was.

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12-25-2010, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by connellc View Post
Let me get this off my chest. Ulf Samuelsson, although a great all around defenseman, was one of the biggest cheap shot artist of his time. Was there anyone else who had more disrespect for "the code" then him? First off, he was a tough guy who wore a visor and was wearing anti-tank equipment during his entire career. If that wasn't bad enough he played a tough style, agitated players beyond belief and often faked injuries. He's also responsible for ending the careers of Mondue and Neely. Ulf almost never dropped the gloves when asked later in his career. With that being said, most teams would have had him in a heart beat and he did contribute to multiple Stanley cups.

The reason why I being this thread up is because Ulf is known as one of the dirtiest players, however, was he as dirty as people make him out to be? We all know that there were tons of dirty hockey during the late 80's and 90's. It's obvious he was a pest but my most important question is this. In your opinion, did he intend to injure or "take players out"
I don't quite get it.. are you declaring him the dirtiest player ever or asking if we was?

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12-25-2010, 02:44 PM
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I think the fact that not one teammate made an effort to come to his assistance after Domi dropped him says all you need to know about the kind of player Ulf Samuelsson was.
Its because they know what he is about. They don't come to other agitators defense either or you rarely see it.

Quote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEu_i71aZIg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0DyMgDQcrE


The difference between Iginla and Murray is that they drop the gloves when called upon and answer the bell. The main gripe I have with Ulf is that he took as many liberties with the code more than any player in the history of the game. These liberties included diving, faking injuries, extra padding, being a pest without stepping up the plate, and his constant kneeing. During the beginning of his career he fought a bit, but basically refused to drop the gloves during the 1990's. I'm wondering if his motivations were "to take players out."
The first on isn't really diving, its embelleshing. Many players do that without getting so much of a sentence about it from Mr. Cherry.

...and to your second argument. Did you ever see guys like Suter, Marchement, Clarke, Messier, Anderson, Chelios and to some lesser extent Lindros play?

Constant kneeing? I think he got what 5-6 incidents? Is that really a constant factor? I watched these guys through their whole careers and Samuelsson isn't even in the top 10 when it comes to being dirty (he's definitly dirty though, Im not arguing that).

He wasnt known for diving (unless you are talking to a Cherry fanatic). Extra padding sure who cares? The other players are allowed to use extra padding if they want to.

You really are starting to sound like one of those kids who watched some clips on youtube and Cherry's rants about him and made up your mind that way.

Edit: Sorry for rant but I've been in numerous "Ulf" arguements. No, he didn't go "out of his way to take players out", he did however clutch and grab and use cheap moves to get players of their game.

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12-25-2010, 03:20 PM
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IIRC 19 other players from various teams donated money to cover Domi's fine after the sucker punch incident.

Samuelsson was dirty no doubt and took every advantage of the rules in his era, but not quite on the level of a Bryan Marchment IMO. He was also a very dependable defensive defenseman and was tough when it came to playing through injuries. Very respected on his own teams, or at least he was in Pittsburgh. I always found it funny that his BFF was Ron Francis, usually seen as the embodiment of class throughout his career and beyond.

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12-25-2010, 04:10 PM
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Ulf?!?!?!
Yup... everyone with the Yotes rave about him.

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12-25-2010, 04:16 PM
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Did he walk the line, often crossing it? Yeah... so what. You see guys like Messier and Lindros taking shots too and IMO those guys were just as dirty as Ulf. I also think he got as much as he gave.

IMO he's going to be the next great NHL coach.
HA~ Ulf is the biggest scum bag that has ever played and never would have survived the 70s/early 80s, if he played then. Being an intelligent player which he was does not diminish what a scum bag he was on the ice as a player. The misnomer of him being a great coach in 2010 has zero bearing on this conversation, you threw that in there because you have no defense. You obviously are wearing black and YELLOW (not gold) sunglasses on.


Lindros and the Moose were never as dirty as Ulf was and if they were, they answered the bell unlike that POS. This has nothing to do with Grapes but he is a prime example of Euro players playing during that era.

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12-25-2010, 04:16 PM
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Yup... everyone with the Yotes rave about him.
Beat me to it. Everything I've heard on the guy says he's one of the more universally praised assistant coaches in the NHL right now.

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12-25-2010, 04:21 PM
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I wouldn't say that Ulf "intended" to injure. IMO, it was more a sign of how hockey was played back then. There were a lot more knee on knee incidents, more dirty "type" of plays overall. There are several players back then that make the current NHL look like a bunch of choir boys play in it.

Bryan Marchment is one who I would say intended to injure. He took runs at people all the time with his knee out. He was always elbowing people and slashing people with the lumber.

Slava Fetisov was widely regarded as a "surgeon" on the ice because when the ref wasn't looking, he was known for doing some surgery on your face with his stick

Dale Hunter, Bobby Clarke, Marty McSorely, Mark Messier, and a gang of others could be included in this discussion. Hockey was played differently back then. A lot of stuff went on "behind the play."

Which brings me to my next point. I think a lot of the dirty play has been curtailed since the NHL added a 2nd referee. It's nowhere near as easy to get away with that stuff like it used to be. Seems like the culture has changed where it was accepted back then and now you're just a ******-bag like Avery if you do it now.

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12-25-2010, 04:25 PM
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Its because they know what he is about. They don't come to other agitators defense either or you rarely see it.



The first on isn't really diving, its embelleshing. Many players do that without getting so much of a sentence about it from Mr. Cherry.

...and to your second argument. Did you ever see guys like Suter, Marchement, Clarke, Messier, Anderson, Chelios and to some lesser extent Lindros play?

Constant kneeing? I think he got what 5-6 incidents? Is that really a constant factor? I watched these guys through their whole careers and Samuelsson isn't even in the top 10 when it comes to being dirty (he's definitly dirty though, Im not arguing that).

He wasnt known for diving (unless you are talking to a Cherry fanatic). Extra padding sure who cares? The other players are allowed to use extra padding if they want to.

You really are starting to sound like one of those kids who watched some clips on youtube and Cherry's rants about him and made up your mind that way.

Edit: Sorry for rant but I've been in numerous "Ulf" arguements. No, he didn't go "out of his way to take players out", he did however clutch and grab and use cheap moves to get players of their game.
I tend to think that 5-6 serious incidents of kneeing is significant. Specifically when he takes players like Neely, Skrudland for long periods. He also got his knee out on Bellows too, but luckily he wasn't serious injury. This thread isnít about other players. I am well aware that they were dirty too. Just because there are a half a dozen guys who played like Ulf, doesn't justify his or their or his actions. Of those players you mentioned, they all dropped the mitts far more than Ulf, especially during the 1990's. They also didn't have the army padding that Ulf had. I personally think not many people in the league broke so many rules of the code than him. Nobody really took that many liberties than him.

It's not just Cherry who thinks he's dirty/disrespectful either. The entire league didn't like him very much and was often thought of as the most hated by many in the NHL. Cherry has had gripes over other cheap players too y'know and not just Euros. Plus, I'm not even a Cherry fan anyway.

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12-25-2010, 04:33 PM
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IIRC 19 other players from various teams donated money to cover Domi's fine after the sucker punch incident.

Samuelsson was dirty no doubt and took every advantage of the rules in his era, but not quite on the level of a Bryan Marchment IMO. He was also a very dependable defensive defenseman and was tough when it came to playing through injuries. Very respected on his own teams, or at least he was in Pittsburgh. I always found it funny that his BFF was Ron Francis, usually seen as the embodiment of class throughout his career and beyond.
Yup, Ulf was a POS no doubt. One of only two players I've ever watched where I was pretty confident he enjoyed giving other players career-threatening injuries.

But it's hypocrisy at its finest that Don Cherry and company spent so much time whining about Ulf and so little time whining about Marchment, who was even worse (and less talented to boot).

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12-25-2010, 04:34 PM
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I tend to think that 5-6 serious incidents of kneeing is significant. Specifically when he takes players like Neely, Skrudland for long periods. He also got his knee out on Bellows too, but luckily he wasn't serious injury. This thread isnít about other players. I am well aware that they were dirty too. Just because there are a half a dozen guys who played like Ulf, doesn't justify his or their or his actions. Of those players you mentioned, they all dropped the mitts far more than Ulf, especially during the 1990's. They also didn't have the army padding that Ulf had. I personally think not many people in the league broke so many rules of the code than him. Nobody really took that many liberties than him.

It's not just Cherry who thinks he's dirty/disrespectful either. The entire league didn't like him very much and was often thought of as the most hated by many in the NHL. Cherry has had gripes over other cheap players too y'know and not just Euros. Plus, I'm not even a Cherry fan anyway.
The truth of the matter is if the Ulf/Neely incident didn't happen, no one would really talk much about Ulf Samuelsson. Neely was a beast and the best power forward in hockey when that incident happened and it forever became synonymous with hockey fans about Ulf ruining the career of one of the best players in hockey at that time. Take out the Neely incident, then Ulf easily gets lumped in with a bunch of other defensemen that played similar.

Marchment was a much more dirtier player that tried to injure people. That guy was a complete POC.

Also, who cares if Ulf fought a lot or not? This "code" is not in stone anyways. Lots of dirty players rarely fought.

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12-25-2010, 04:35 PM
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I don't quite get it.. are you declaring him the dirtiest player ever or asking if we was?
My main points are

1."Was he as dirty as people make him out to be?"

2."In your opinion, did he intend to injure or "take players out."

3. Was there any other player who disrespected "the code" more than him?

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12-25-2010, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by connellc View Post
My main points are

1."Was he as dirty as people make him out to be?"

2."In your opinion, did he intend to injure or "take players out."

3. Was there any other player who disrespected "the code" more than him?
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Depends on what you mean by "the code." Ulf's body armor and, quite frankly, the fact that he was born in Europe made it a more serious violation of "the code" that he played that way. But IMO, Bryan Marchment was even worse in terms of intentionally injuring players in ways that threatened their careers.

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12-25-2010, 04:52 PM
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The truth of the matter is if the Ulf/Neely incident didn't happen, no one would really talk much about Ulf Samuelsson. Neely was a beast and the best power forward in hockey when that incident happened and it forever became synonymous with hockey fans about Ulf ruining the career of one of the best players in hockey at that time. Take out the Neely incident, then Ulf easily gets lumped in with a bunch of other defensemen that played similar.

Marchment was a much more dirtier player that tried to injure people. That guy was a complete POC.

Also, who cares if Ulf fought a lot or not? This "code" is not in stone anyways. Lots of dirty players rarely fought.
But the thing is, was there a player took more liberties than the code in matters when it came to

1. Tough guy with visor
2. Dove and embellished penalties
3. Was a pest
4. Is responsible putting players on long term IR
5. Wore army pads for possible fear of retaliation
6. Almost never dropped the gloves, especially later in his career
7. Chirped like no other


Combined almost no other player fits this bill with the exception of Matt Cooke and possibly Rich Pilon. I know Iím narrowing specific characteristics but it's tough to find other players took so many precautions with their safety but had no regard for others. Thatís why I believe these were the reasons why he was universally hated throughout the league. Marchment was probably the only player that was worse than him on an overall scale of cheapness and disrespect for the code IMO.

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12-25-2010, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by connellc View Post
But the thing is, was there a player took more liberties than the code in matters when it came to

1. Tough guy with visor
2. Dove and embellished penalties
3. Was a pest
4. Is responsible putting players on long term IR
5. Wore army pads for possible fear of retaliation
6. Almost never dropped the gloves, especially later in his career
7. Chirped like no other


Combined almost no other player fits this bill with the exception of Matt Cooke and possibly Rich Pilon. I know Iím narrowing specific characteristics but it's tough to find other players took so many precautions with their safety but had no regard for others. Thatís why I believe these were the reasons why he was universally hated throughout the league. Marchment was probably the only player that was worse than him on an overall scale of cheapness and disrespect for the code IMO.
I think you are putting too much stock in this "code." I wouldn't separate the actions of a player over whether or not he fought or wore a visor. A turd is a turd. Doesn't matter if the turd is brown or has corn in it.

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12-25-2010, 05:59 PM
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1."Was he as dirty as people make him out to be?" Depends on what people you are talking to. He was dirty.

2."In your opinion, did he intend to injure or "take players out." No but he did have questionable hits like lots of other players. I would count Matt Cooke as worse in that department.

3. Was there any other player who disrespected "the code" more than him? I mentioned a few guys higher up in the thread.

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12-25-2010, 05:59 PM
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I think you are putting too much stock in this "code." I wouldn't separate the actions of a player over whether or not he fought or wore a visor. A turd is a turd. Doesn't matter if the turd is brown or has corn in it.
What about peanuts?

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