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Ulf Samuelsson rant/question.

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Old
12-25-2010, 06:06 PM
  #26
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Ulf would be more along the lines of Marchment if he hadn't done what he did to Neely.

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12-25-2010, 06:11 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Briere Up There View Post
Ulf would be more along the lines of Marchment if he hadn't done what he did to Neely.
You do know that the hit didnt end Neelys career right? It was Neelys retaliation that ended his career when he missed Ulf with a big hit and injured his other knee.

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Old
12-25-2010, 06:41 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post

This has nothing to do with Grapes but he is a prime example of Euro players playing during that era.
Go on then, name and shame all those other "classless" Europeans from that era who defined their whole generation.

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12-25-2010, 06:45 PM
  #29
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by Briere Up There View Post
Ulf would be more along the lines of Marchment if he hadn't done what he did to Neely.
Huh?

Marchment did what Ulf did to Neely to multiple players.

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Old
12-25-2010, 06:56 PM
  #30
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Not that I'm comparing them but whenever someone brings up Samuelsson "trying to hurt people" I always think about how fiercely defended Scott Stevens is. Did Stevens try to hurt people on those big crushing hits? How would Stevens be regarded if he were born in Sweden or Finland instead of Kitchener?

For the record I 100% believe that the hate Samuelsson gets would be considerably lessened, especially from Don Cherry and his ilk if he were a good old Ontario or Saskatchewan boy.

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12-25-2010, 07:02 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mco543 View Post
Not that I'm comparing them but whenever someone brings up Samuelsson "trying to hurt people" I always think about how fiercely defended Scott Stevens is. Did Stevens try to hurt people on those big crushing hits? How would Stevens be regarded if he were born in Sweden or Finland instead of Kitchener?

For the record I 100% believe that the hate Samuelsson gets would be considerably lessened, especially from Don Cherry and his ilk if he were a good old Ontario or Saskatchewan boy.
What if he was from Kingston and his name was Ulf Muller?

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12-25-2010, 07:08 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by connellc View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEu_i71aZIg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0DyMgDQcrE


The difference between Iginla and Murray is that they drop the gloves when called upon and answer the bell. The main gripe I have with Ulf is that he took as many liberties with the code more than any player in the history of the game. These liberties included diving, faking injuries, extra padding, being a pest without stepping up the plate, and his constant kneeing. During the beginning of his career he fought a bit, but basically refused to drop the gloves during the 1990's. I'm wondering if his motivations were "to take players out."
If he basically refused to drop the gloves, why do you call him a 'tough guy'? We all know Samuelsson was more of a dirty pest than a tough guy/fighter.......so who cares if he wore a visor or not. Many pests wear visors.

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12-25-2010, 07:22 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Huh?

Marchment did what Ulf did to Neely to multiple players.
So what? He never set in motion the end of a big markets star scorer's career in a huge playoff game. Marchment was worse, I was talking about reputation.

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12-25-2010, 07:29 PM
  #34
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I never forgave him for knocking out Janet Gretzky.

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Old
12-25-2010, 08:04 PM
  #35
connellc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
If he basically refused to drop the gloves, why do you call him a 'tough guy'? We all know Samuelsson was more of a dirty pest than a tough guy/fighter.......so who cares if he wore a visor or not. Many pests wear visors.
I call him a tough guy because that's what he was...tough. The guy took a ton of abuse from other players and often took a lot of high sticks and cheap shots on a nightly basis. Anyone who can take the retaliation and punishment that players gave him should get some points for that.

Samuelsson actually fought a fair amount during the 1980's, especially for a Euro, and there is multiple video evidence of this on YouTube. He never answered the bell during the mid to late 90's although to his credit he really toned it down after the Domi sucker punch. He probably figured that he's better tone it down until the playoff's or something

The visor situation with Ulf is interesting for its time. Remember, we are talking about the mid 80's here. He really was one of the first pests to wear one during a period when many players weren't even wearing helmets. He really was the one of the first "pests" to actually play with a visor for that matter. I think Sandstrom and Lemieux also fit this bell.

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Old
12-25-2010, 09:37 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
HA~ Ulf is the biggest scum bag that has ever played and never would have survived the 70s/early 80s, if he played then. Being an intelligent player which he was does not diminish what a scum bag he was on the ice as a player. The misnomer of him being a great coach in 2010 has zero bearing on this conversation, you threw that in there because you have no defense. You obviously are wearing black and YELLOW (not gold) sunglasses on.


Lindros and the Moose were never as dirty as Ulf was and if they were, they answered the bell unlike that POS. This has nothing to do with Grapes but he is a prime example of Euro players playing during that era.
You're not getting it. He was a scum bag... what I'm saying is that I don't care. What do you think the Sweeny's had halo's on when defending Lemieux?

Talk about blinders from a poster called BamBamCam. Messier, Lindros and Howe were the most dirty players I'ver ever seen. Both went out of their way for cheapshots just to intimidate and I'm sure that its pretty much known that Gordie Howe didn't even have a Gordie Howe HT. In fact he didn't have many fighting majors at all. Scum bags go back a long way in hockey.. look up Bill Coutu.

It sucks what happened to Neely but it sucks what happened to Lemieux, Bossy, and Orr too. Its hockey...

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12-25-2010, 09:52 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
HA~ Ulf is the biggest scum bag that has ever played and never would have survived the 70s/early 80s, if he played then. Being an intelligent player which he was does not diminish what a scum bag he was on the ice as a player. The misnomer of him being a great coach in 2010 has zero bearing on this conversation, you threw that in there because you have no defense. You obviously are wearing black and YELLOW (not gold) sunglasses on.


Lindros and the Moose were never as dirty as Ulf was and if they were, they answered the bell unlike that POS. This has nothing to do with Grapes but he is a prime example of Euro players playing during that era.
Lindros was a punk. He always went after the smaller guys, so what bell did he answer?

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12-25-2010, 10:16 PM
  #38
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12-26-2010, 03:34 AM
  #39
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Samuelsson was a dirty player, no question. But his 'legend', so to speak, has been blown out of proportion by the Neely situation and by campaign of Don Cherry against him. And also by the fact that he was such a good player regardless of how he played - nobody notices that Andy Sutton has been the dirtiest player in the NHL for the past decade because he's such a crappy player.

Personally, in terms of low/dangerous hits, I don't think he was nearly as bad as Marchment.

If he was named Mike Samuelsson and was from Red Deer, and hadn't hit Neely, he wouldn't be viewed in nearly the same way.

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12-26-2010, 06:01 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pentothal View Post
Go on then, name and shame all those other "classless" Europeans from that era who defined their whole generation.
Remember how Fetisov was treated when he first came to the NHL and was throwing hip checks like Brad Park? When Park did it it was a great, tough play... when Fetisov did it he was a dirty ruskie and W Clarke was some sort of hero for just going up to him and punching him in the face.

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12-26-2010, 07:30 AM
  #41
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I never forgave him for knocking out Janet Gretzky.
It was a nice one though.

For my money, Bobby Clarke was a lot more vicious player, but he is a good old Canadian boy so he gets free pass of course.

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12-26-2010, 08:39 AM
  #42
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Honestly I never had a problem with the way Ulf played. The league was a lot more rough and dirty back then. He was also a pretty decent d man, especially on a terrible defensive pens team.

Take away the hit to Cam and we aren't even discussing this, far worse crimes in the 80's and early 90's.

As people mentioned, Messier was far worse at times, but he was a star and people applauded him for it.

I think the hit on Neely is way over blown and those hits happened all the time to players. Cam was just unlucky.

Ulf is an easy villan, but make no mistake, he skilled defensive player.

The crap Avery pulls in todays game is far worse.

Every team would take him, maybe except Boston.

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Old
12-26-2010, 10:22 AM
  #43
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I'd hate to defend Ulf, but the hit on Neely was a hip check, not a knee on knee. It was a legal hit.

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Old
12-26-2010, 11:03 AM
  #44
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Some of the people in this thread are baffling me.

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12-26-2010, 11:30 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by edog37 View Post
Lindros was a punk. He always went after the smaller guys, so what bell did he answer?
Too funny as almost every player in the league was smaller than him at the time he played.

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Old
12-26-2010, 12:32 PM
  #46
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Ulf finally got what was coming to him.....cheap shot yes......had it coming? OH YA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnKxV9ilsqo

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Old
12-26-2010, 12:47 PM
  #47
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Some of the people in this thread are baffling me.
Yeah, the Bruins/Neely homers are being completely ridiculous.

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Old
12-26-2010, 01:54 PM
  #48
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Ulfie was one of the dirtiest players of his day but not the worst and not close to the worst ever.

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12-26-2010, 02:33 PM
  #49
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Yes, Messier was dirty as hell. He would butt end you in the face when the refs weren't looking. But did he ever go for a player's knees? There was an unwritten rule that even if you played dirty, you didn't go for a player's knees, because that could very well be career-ending. (Nobody really knew or cared about concussions at the time). Ulf (and Marchment) had reputations as guys who took very cavalier attitudes towards ending player's careers.

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12-26-2010, 02:53 PM
  #50
Ogie Goldthorpe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
HA~ Ulf is the biggest scum bag that has ever played and never would have survived the 70s/early 80s, if he played then. Being an intelligent player which he was does not diminish what a scum bag he was on the ice as a player. The misnomer of him being a great coach in 2010 has zero bearing on this conversation, you threw that in there because you have no defense. You obviously are wearing black and YELLOW (not gold) sunglasses on.


Lindros and the Moose were never as dirty as Ulf was and if they were, they answered the bell unlike that POS. This has nothing to do with Grapes but he is a prime example of Euro players playing during that era.
Messier rarely, if ever, answered the bell.

Still, I'd put Samuelsson in the Top 10 Dirty Players (who had a career of any real length) of All Time... but Mess would make my Top 20.

For the record, and off the top of my head... here's my Top 10 of dirty players I've seen play.

1. Bobby Clark
2. Ed Van Impe
3. Gary Suter
4. Bryan Marchment
5. Wayne Cashman
6. Dale Hunter
7. Ulf Samuelsson
8. Chris Pronger
9. Ken Linsman
10. Ron Hextall or Billy Smith


Last edited by Ogie Goldthorpe: 12-26-2010 at 03:06 PM.
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