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Ulf Samuelsson rant/question.

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Old
12-26-2010, 02:56 PM
  #51
LiveeviL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
You do know that the hit didnt end Neelys career right? It was Neelys retaliation that ended his career when he missed Ulf with a big hit and injured his other knee.
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Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
I'd hate to defend Ulf, but the hit on Neely was a hip check, not a knee on knee. It was a legal hit.
Yes, and as stated it wasn't Samuelsson's hit which caused the injury. Neely states this himself at 0:28 - 0:55:

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Old
12-26-2010, 03:10 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveeviL View Post
Yes, and as stated it wasn't Samuelsson's hit which caused the injury. Neely states this himself at 0:28 - 0:55:
The first intentional knee on knee hit was the hit that gave him a big contusion on his right leg and made him ineffectual for the rest of the series.

The second hit he talks about that he missed was the one that further developed the problem into a career ending injury.

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Old
12-26-2010, 03:51 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shadows View Post
The first intentional knee on knee hit was the hit that gave him a big contusion on his right leg and made him ineffectual for the rest of the series.

The second hit he talks about that he missed was the one that further developed the problem into a career ending injury.
So we all agree the hit didnt end Neelys career. In fact there is a good possibility that if Neely rested and kept his cool he might have been an effective player for several more seasons.

Quote:
1. Bobby Clark
2. Ed Van Impe
3. Gary Suter
4. Bryan Marchment
5. Wayne Cashman
6. Dale Hunter
7. Ulf Samuelsson
8. Chris Pronger
9. Ken Linsman
10. Ron Hextall or Billy Smith
I like your list but Shore, Cleghorn, Lindsay would be above Samuelsson on my list. Probably several more like Messier, Clarke, Cooke and maybe even Tootoo.

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Old
12-26-2010, 04:15 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
So we all agree the hit didnt end Neelys career. In fact there is a good possibility that if Neely rested and kept his cool he might have been an effective player for several more seasons.



I like your list but Shore, Cleghorn, Lindsay would be above Samuelsson on my list. Probably several more like Messier, Clarke, Cooke and maybe even Tootoo.
Clarke is his No1^^

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Old
12-26-2010, 04:19 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
So we all agree the hit didnt end Neelys career. In fact there is a good possibility that if Neely rested and kept his cool he might have been an effective player for several more seasons.
That hit did not end Neely's career. The knee on knee is however what caused him to miss the next season and several fluid filled knee surgeries and arthroscopic knee surgeries and more knee injuries which would plague him the rest of his career.

The other hit to the thigh which was incidental not shown caused his recurring hip Flexor injuries and The injury led to the development of myositis ossificans in the thigh, which turned his thigh muscle to bone.

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Old
12-26-2010, 04:19 PM
  #56
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Ulf Samulesson was not the most dirtiest player to ever play the game. The problem with Ulf was he was the most hated. He usually picked his shots. When a player was usually vulnerable that was when Ulf would hand out the biggest hits. He did quite a few knee on knees but their were other players that did this too.

Alot of people remember the Mondu hit or the Neely hit. Samuelsson did worse to other players.

Ulf Samuelsson was an okay defenceman nothing special. I always felt that Kjell Samulesson was the better defenceman of the two

THe only reason I hated Samuelsson is because alot of times he turtled. He was a guy who would do dirty things and then turtle. Kind of like Claude Lemieux at times. He was also tough but would turtle often. It works though it gets under your skin and gets you off your game

Bruins fans might hate Samuelsson as well as others. But it is not because of Cherry. What Cherry said about Samuelsson was for the most part true. He was piece of ***** that I always hoped someone would give him a beat down. I loved it when Domi gave him his. But even though I hated him there were other players that I saw that were alot more dirty then him.

However he did his job and was a big part of the Penguins Stanley Cup winning teams.

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12-26-2010, 04:20 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shadows View Post
The first intentional knee on knee hit was the hit that gave him a big contusion on his right leg and made him ineffectual for the rest of the series.

The second hit he talks about that he missed was the one that further developed the problem into a career ending injury.
Yes and what some (other) people harp about is that it was just the first hit (by Samuelsson) which ended the career of Neely. Both guys played a pretty though game and Neely was unlucky with his hit.

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Old
12-26-2010, 04:25 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveeviL View Post
Yes and what some (other) people harp about is that it was just the first hit (by Samuelsson) which ended the career of Neely. Both guys played a pretty though game and Neely was unlucky with his hit.
No, the first hit from Samuelson is what led to him missing loads of time for knee surgeries over the next bunch of years and ruined his mobility.

The second hit is what caused the chain reaction in later hip flexor injuries and myositis ossificans of the thigh and rendered him completely unable to play due to the pain.

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Old
12-26-2010, 04:55 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shadows View Post
No, the first hit from Samuelson is what led to him missing loads of time for knee surgeries over the next bunch of years and ruined his mobility.

The second hit is what caused the chain reaction in later hip flexor injuries and myositis ossificans of the thigh and rendered him completely unable to play due to the pain.
His rehabilitation would have been alot smoother without the second injury though and maybe saved him from early retirement.


On another subject. Neely says Ulf needs to be prepared when playing the game he's playing. Well he is. Can anyone honestly say they ever heard Samuelsson ***** about the treatment he himself recieved. I sure as hell didnt hear anything from him. He payed his dues for the way he played no doubt and Domis cheapshot wasnt the only time that a player got to him.

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Old
12-26-2010, 05:50 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
I like your list but Shore, Cleghorn, Lindsay would be above Samuelsson on my list. Probably several more like Messier, Clarke, Cooke and maybe even Tootoo.
I limited my list to players I'd seen, which only goes back to the early '70's. Some guys, like Howe, had mellowed somewhat by the time I saw them play.

Probably Cleghorn would be the dirtiest player ever in an all-time list... Shore and Lindsay would be in the top 10 and Howe somewhere in the top 20. Cooke and Tootoo might vie for my top 20 too.

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Old
12-26-2010, 08:31 PM
  #61
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I'm sure that its pretty much known that Gordie Howe didn't even have a Gordie Howe HT.
He had two. Not many, but not zero either.

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12-26-2010, 08:58 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shadows View Post
No, the first hit from Samuelson is what led to him missing loads of time for knee surgeries over the next bunch of years and ruined his mobility.

The second hit is what caused the chain reaction in later hip flexor injuries and myositis ossificans of the thigh and rendered him completely unable to play due to the pain.
^Correct.

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Old
12-31-2010, 03:17 PM
  #63
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I don't know if a clip of it exists. I don't think so because I never saw it. But from what I've heard, the damaging hit on Neely was actually Neely trying to hit Samuelsson, not the other way around.

As far as a wearing a visor goes, players wear visors to protect their eyes, not because they're afraid to fight.

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12-31-2010, 10:53 PM
  #64
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Ulf ruined one career and the hit looked accidental. If it was another guy besides Neely on the other end, he would not even crack the top 20 list. Dirty but not as dirty as many wish he was.

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01-01-2011, 08:36 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by straka91 View Post
Ulf ruined one career and the hit looked accidental. If it was another guy besides Neely on the other end, he would not even crack the top 20 list. Dirty but not as dirty as many wish he was.
He ruined Pierre Mondou's career as well with a stick to the eye. At the time, Mondou was the Habs #1 center and having the best year of his career.

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01-01-2011, 09:28 AM
  #66
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He ruined Pierre Mondou's career as well with a stick to the eye. At the time, Mondou was the Habs #1 center and having the best year of his career.
Obviously an accident.

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01-01-2011, 10:23 AM
  #67
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I believe everything evened up when Lindros broke Samuelsson's collarbone in the '91 Canada Cup.

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01-01-2011, 11:00 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
Obviously an accident.
Obviously?
Samuelsson was a surgeon with his stick as well as his knees. Most people who saw it at the time were certain he did it on purpose. Not ended Mondou's career on purpose. But he certainly meant to stick him in the face after he scored.

By that point, Samuelsson was already known for his antics. Punching people and cross checking people in the back of the head and neck, liberally high sticking them, slashing their wrists, elbowing them in corners, spearing people in the groin, and yes, the knee on knees that he seemed to do a few times a year.

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Old
01-01-2011, 12:00 PM
  #69
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A good defenseman in his time to be sure but he ruined Neely's career. Not as dirty as a Bryan Marchment but still not the cleanest of players.

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01-01-2011, 12:12 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by #66 View Post
Did he walk the line, often crossing it? Yeah... so what. You see guys like Messier and Lindros taking shots too and IMO those guys were just as dirty as Ulf. I also think he got as much as he gave.

IMO he's going to be the next great NHL coach.
Lindros and Messier would fight. Then again, people were scared to death to challenge them. Ulf is more in the mold of Bobby Clarke. He'd do a cheap shot and run for the most part. Clarke and Ulf defenders can't ignore this. These guys were cowards, case closed.

Now, was Ulf still an effective defenseman? Of course. Neely dropped the gloves with him one time when Ulf was in Hartford I guess I'll give him that, but in general he wasn't a fighter. To this day Neely says he doesn't mind how Ulf played on the edge but rather how he never answered the bell when he did these things. That's my problem with Ulf. Don't get me wrong I'd still want him on my team but there was a reason that Domi knocked him out cold and no one thought there was anything wrong with it even though Domi got an 8 game suspension

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Old
01-01-2011, 12:16 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by tony d View Post
A good defenseman in his time to be sure but he ruined Neely's career. Not as dirty as a Bryan Marchment but still not the cleanest of players.
Bryan Marchment beats him as a cheap shot artist for sure. He was straddling Nieuwendyk's knee for a few seconds before he rammed it right into the end boards in the 1998 playoffs. No accident in my opinion.

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01-01-2011, 03:55 PM
  #72
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^^^No question. However Marchment would fight as Ulf would turtle. Tiger Williams was one the dirtiest players I've seen but he would back it up. Another would be Bryan Watson of the Penguins and Wings in the 70's. One tough SOB.

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Old
01-01-2011, 04:43 PM
  #73
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A couple very interesting articles on the Swedish meatball Ulf. A few interesting quotes.

Mike Modano:

" His job is to hurt people." "He goes for the knees a lot. He takes runs at you, and really all he's trying to do is hurt you and knock you out of the game."

Ulf:

"I'm not going to say I'm a clean player, because I'm not."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...7505/index.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/01/21/ma...om.html?src=pm

Both these articles go on to discuss the multiple infractions that Ulf caused during his career. Both are great reads.

Another thing I wanted to note. Although Ulf did help tremendously in winning two cups and scoring the cup winner in an 8-0 victory he made some major mistakes for the game 7 Islander victory in 1993. Yes, he did get a rare goal that game, however, he coughed up the puck to Thomas for an easy tying goal was pinched too deep for the OT goal. I think in his blog he said it took him years to get over it or something like that. If anyone wants it, I can probably dig it up.

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Old
01-01-2011, 07:27 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Lindros and Messier would fight. Then again, people were scared to death to challenge them. Ulf is more in the mold of Bobby Clarke. He'd do a cheap shot and run for the most part.
Actually, dropyourgloves.com has Messier with 58 career fights and Samuelsson with 78. Now this is the kind of statistic that probably hides more than it shows (although their fight cards look to be a similar mix of tougher guys and pushovers), but to say that Messier was substantially more "stand up" than Ulfie is exaggerating.

For the record, Clarke clocks in at 40 career fights.

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01-01-2011, 08:07 PM
  #75
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The fact that Ulf's rep is worse than Bryan Marchment is all you need to know about the biases of those who demonize Ulf.

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