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Sharks interested in NJs Langenbrunner (UPD traded to DAL)

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Old
12-28-2010, 12:51 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Hold the Pickles View Post
Not that this has anything to do with Langenbrunner, but...

To me Huskins is a slightly better all-around d-man than Wallin, with the edge in physical presence going to Wallin.

When the d is healthy, Husky is being paired with Demers and Wally is getting a stronger defensive partner. I don't think you can draw any conclusions concerning who management thinks is stronger defensively between Husky and Wally based on that. Its just that Husky and Demers have good chemistry, so you pair Wally with the better defensive partner and put them up against the tougher competition.
The problem with Vlasic/Wallin is that you have a pairing where the relative +/- to the team is astoundingly awful. That means that the matchups are screwed up. When they delinked them during the injury time, Vlasic's relative +/- flattened out. I don't think it is a statistical oddity. Vlasic was finally able to contribute to the offense and his puckhandling improved. I don't know why. Challenge from Braun for TOI? Better feeds from his partner? Whatever? I don't think the stats lie.

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12-28-2010, 01:45 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
The problem with Vlasic/Wallin is that you have a pairing where the relative +/- to the team is astoundingly awful. That means that the matchups are screwed up. When they delinked them during the injury time, Vlasic's relative +/- flattened out. I don't think it is a statistical oddity. Vlasic was finally able to contribute to the offense and his puckhandling improved. I don't know why. Challenge from Braun for TOI? Better feeds from his partner? Whatever? I don't think the stats lie.
Interesting, then who seems to be the best d-partner for Wally?

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12-28-2010, 01:46 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Hold the Pickles View Post
Interesting, then who seems to be the best d-partner for Wally?
His couch?

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12-28-2010, 01:59 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Hold the Pickles View Post
Interesting, then who seems to be the best d-partner for Wally?
Derek Joslin. In the press box.

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12-28-2010, 02:20 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Hold the Pickles View Post
Interesting, then who seems to be the best d-partner for Wally?
Braun?

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12-28-2010, 03:46 PM
  #56
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Interesting, then who seems to be the best d-partner for Wally?
Brett Hedican.

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12-28-2010, 07:06 PM
  #57
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First of all, people highly over-criticize Derek Joslin. He hasn't been the worst d-man or one of the worst. He doesn't play enough to justify such a ridiculous statement. The team hasn't scratched the surface of what they could get out of Derek Joslin but until they play him and give him a bit of a leash, it will never be seen.
No, he gets play time, but there's a reason why it's not a lot and only limited to an average of 13:09. Scratched the surface? Come on, you're telling me that management has been putting off on giving Joslin a "real chance" for the last 3-4 seasons because they're unaware of his potential.

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As for Braun, I am definitely considering the fatigue factor but all things considered, that's a risk I'd be willing to take over proven mediocrity that you get out of Wallin and Huskins. He is actually part of the solution that the Sharks need to move towards. Mobility on the backend, a good shot from the point, and consistent offensive production. And we've already gone through what could go through with Braun in Matt Carle and he didn't have that problem his first year so it can be done if they choose to.
I don't quite understand the point you're making here, I think the sentence is just confusing.

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As for Wallin, you're only fooling yourself if you actually believe that and it makes it really difficult to give you any sort of credibility in this regard. Wallin's not going to be benched. Not now, not later, and certainly not in the playoffs. Doug Wilson simply will not allow that to happen.
Unless if you have some weird telepathic link between yourself and DW or, at the very least, if there are quotes you have to back up this statement, I don't understand where your assumption of this supposed "love affair" between management and Nic Wallin comes from.

This is just starting to become a pissing match.

Basically it breaks down to this:

Pinkfloyd - Braun should be called up now to make an immediate impact. Huskins should be traded. Wallin will not be benched. Joslin needs more ice time to prove his worthiness.

Param - Braun needs time to simmer in the minors, bring him up towards the end of the season and playoffs. Losing Huskins eats away at our depth. Wallin is better than Joslin. We should not put too much faith in Joslin.

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12-29-2010, 03:22 PM
  #58
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Deadline trading for leadership is a joke. If the leadership isn't already in the Sharks room, bringing someone in won't make a difference. Generally, deadline mercenaries are there for one thing, to bring skill and experience. They are too new to the team to make a difference in the room. That is from player quotes, not my own speculation.
I agree, we traded a first rounder for Guerin for that purpose, and look how well that went.

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12-29-2010, 04:35 PM
  #59
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I agree, we traded a first rounder for Guerin for that purpose, and look how well that went.
an error slapshot to the face didnt help

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12-29-2010, 04:45 PM
  #60
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Any move that reduces cap space and does not result in us acquiring a d-man between the boyle--->vlasic/murray/demers chasm is a bad move.

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12-29-2010, 04:46 PM
  #61
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an error slapshot to the face didnt help
He also wasn't useless. He just wasn't what we were hoping for. He was also a rental, which meant we weren't stuck with him either.

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12-29-2010, 06:49 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
He also wasn't useless. He just wasn't what we were hoping for. He was also a rental, which meant we weren't stuck with him either.
He had #1 star games for a couple of games, but beyond that was fairly useless, especially in the playoffs. There are other reasons why he wasn't a good acquisition. I didn't think he would be good at the time and was against the acquisition from the beginning.

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12-29-2010, 06:56 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
He had #1 star games for a couple of games, but beyond that was fairly useless, especially in the playoffs. There are other reasons why he wasn't a good acquisition. I didn't think he would be good at the time and was against the acquisition from the beginning.
That's fine. I disagree(d). He seemed to do quite well as a deadline deal for the Pen's. I seem to recall they won the Cup that year. He was also 2 years older by then.

Playoffs:
GP G A PT PIM
24 7 8 15 15

Regular Season:
GP G A PT PIM
17 5 7 12 18

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12-29-2010, 07:08 PM
  #64
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No, he gets play time, but there's a reason why it's not a lot and only limited to an average of 13:09. Scratched the surface? Come on, you're telling me that management has been putting off on giving Joslin a "real chance" for the last 3-4 seasons because they're unaware of his potential.



I don't quite understand the point you're making here, I think the sentence is just confusing.



Unless if you have some weird telepathic link between yourself and DW or, at the very least, if there are quotes you have to back up this statement, I don't understand where your assumption of this supposed "love affair" between management and Nic Wallin comes from.

This is just starting to become a pissing match.

Basically it breaks down to this:

Pinkfloyd - Braun should be called up now to make an immediate impact. Huskins should be traded. Wallin will not be benched. Joslin needs more ice time to prove his worthiness.

Param - Braun needs time to simmer in the minors, bring him up towards the end of the season and playoffs. Losing Huskins eats away at our depth. Wallin is better than Joslin. We should not put too much faith in Joslin.
Yes, Joslin gets playing time. However, it is not enough to justify a ridiculous statement like he's one of our worst d-men. That is just silly based on his age, his experience, and the amount of time he gets. He doesn't play enough and hasn't actually sucked enough to justify that claim. And yes, the team hasn't scratched the surface on what they can get out of him. The problem is they're not willing to do what it takes to get him to improve. They have to play him more and let him make mistakes to learn. When a young player is looking over his shoulder because one or two mistakes puts him on the bench, he's going to tighten up and make those errors. This is what happened with Carle. It's what happened with Ehrhoff. It's common. Just remember that saying they've put it off for 3-4 seasons is ridiculous when he is 23 years old. He wasn't ready to be a consistent NHL'er until last season...and where he is on his projection path is perfectly in line with plenty of other defensemen. I know the team is aware of his potential because if they weren't they would have waived him already. It's that this year, they're not in a position to develop players when they're not good enough to cover that like they were last year with Demers.

The second response you had was having to do with the fatigue factor with Braun. We've already pushed a young player through that issue with Matt Carle. He came out of college having not played anything near a full NHL schedule and he did fine his first season. That's not a legitimate reason to hold back a player that was providing something needed for the team.

As for Wallin, the proof is in the pudding and it's as simple as that. Doug Wilson went out of his way to acquire Niclas Wallin. He took the time to convince him to waive his clause to come here which likely included some negotiating towards a new contract, which he eventually gave. Both instances involved overpayment. Moving back from the 2nd round to the 5th was overpayment. 2.5 million for a guy that has been nothing but a 3rd pairing guy his entire career was overpayment. The actions speak louder than anything that could be said. There are three guys in our organization who have shown that they can contribute just as much as Wallin at a significant discount yet he is still in the lineup and still on this team even after seeing how awful he was last year.

The only reason I said that Huskins should be dealt is that he is the only one that is easy to move, has the salary to make a trade work if we bring in a better d-man, and isn't all that great of a depth option in the first place. I would much prefer to move Wallin but he has an NTC so that's not going to happen. Benching a 2.5 mil player that DW has put so much time and effort into acquiring and re-signing is obviously not going to happen either. Braun is a better player to put into the lineup now because he is more mobile than either Huskins or Wallin. He has better puck skills than either Huskins or Wallin. He has a better shot than either Huskins or Wallin. The biggest issue plaguing the Sharks and their wildly inconsistent offense is their backend not being able to consistently start the offense like they could last year when they had three very good puck-handling defensemen.

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Old
12-29-2010, 07:20 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
That's fine. I disagree(d). He seemed to do quite well as a deadline deal for the Pen's. I seem to recall they won the Cup that year. He was also 2 years older by then.

Playoffs:
GP G A PT PIM
24 7 8 15 15

Regular Season:
GP G A PT PIM
17 5 7 12 18
That team probably would have won the cup with or without Guerin.

Excellent leadership: Check
Best player in the game: Check, Check (they had two!)
Great defense: Check (Gonchar, Orpik, Letang, etc)
Great goaltending: Check (Fleury for his faults was excellent that year)
Great organization: Check

Guerin was an insurance plan, nothing more. For the Shark's he was expected to be a game changer. That's what we call poor needs evaluation.

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12-29-2010, 07:27 PM
  #66
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That team probably would have won the cup with or without Guerin.

Excellent leadership: Check
Best player in the game: Check, Check (they had two!)
Great defense: Check (Gonchar, Orpik, Letang, etc)
Great goaltending: Check (Fleury for his faults was excellent that year)
Great organization: Check

Guerin was an insurance plan, nothing more. For the Shark's he was expected to be a game changer. That's what we call poor needs evaluation.
He was doing fine. He was hit with a puck in the face and was never the same for the PO's. We went down a man 8:17 in Game 4 and after possibly going up 3-1 against the wings, Marleau and Nabby ****ed up and let them tie the game with 33 seconds left. But I can see blaming Guerin for losing that series .

Look at Bills points in the PO's for the Pen's. They are not insignificant numbers regardless of the team around him. He had good/great numbers on lesser teams in the past. It worked for the Pen's. You have to ask yourself why it did not work out for the Sharks.

Hindsight is 20/20. He wasn't as big of an asset for us as he was for the Pen's. There could be several reasons for that including the injury. It doesn't make the acquisition at that time a mistake.

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12-29-2010, 07:44 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
He was doing fine. He was hit with a puck in the face and was never the same for the PO's. We went down a man 8:17 in Game 4 and after possibly going up 3-1 against the wings, Marleau and Nabby ****ed up and let them tie the game with 33 seconds left. But I can see blaming Guerin for losing that series .

Look at Bills points in the PO's for the Pen's. They are not insignificant numbers regardless of the team around him. He had good/great numbers on lesser teams in the past. It worked for the Pen's. You have to ask yourself why it did not work out for the Sharks.

Hindsight is 20/20. He wasn't as big of an asset for us as he was for the Pen's. There could be several reasons for that including the injury. It doesn't make the acquisition at that time a mistake.
1. Guerin was on the wrong side of the puck just as much as Marleau on that one play.

2. Guerin had 2 assists in 9 games before getting the puck to the face in that playoffs.

3. Guerin had 8-1-9 in 16 games regular season for the Sharks, but IIRC, those 8 goals included 2 hat tricks. 2 goals in the other 14 games. His production was very sporadic in most of the stops of his career.

4. There were reasons why Guerin had a very meandering career. And there were multiple quotes over time that indicated a very poor quality of leadership.

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12-29-2010, 07:55 PM
  #68
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1. Guerin was on the wrong side of the puck just as much as Marleau on that one play.

I don't know how you can type that with a straight typefont.

2. Guerin had 2 assists in 9 games before getting the puck to the face in that playoffs.

I also remember at least 3 posts and several more great chances. Not to mention a few perfect assists that were mangled by the receiver. You can't always predict a perfect fit either. It doesn't mean you don't take a chance when you've got a legitimate chance at the CUP.

3. Guerin had 8-1-9 in 16 games regular season for the Sharks, but IIRC, those 8 goals included 2 hat tricks. 2 goals in the other 14 games. His production was very sporadic in most of the stops of his career.

He did not have great stats or play as well as I had hoped or expected. That doesn't mean it was a bad pick up in and of itself as the Pen's have proven. If he hadn't done well on the Pen's I suspect you'd be using that as an argument to prove your point as well.

4. There were reasons why Guerin had a very meandering career. And there were multiple quotes over time that indicated a very poor quality of leadership.

Don't really care. He was a hell of a player before he got to the Sharks and has done fairly well since. Who knows what other options there were, if any, at the time or whether those options would have been worth the price. At the time we were going for it and the opportunity was there. But for a few mistakes, we get past DRW's and who knows after that.
Those that were against it appear to still be against it regardless of the facts. The way I see it history has proven the exact opposite.

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12-29-2010, 08:04 PM
  #69
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Those that were against it appear to still be against it regardless of the facts. The way I see it history has proven the exact opposite.
Yes, it was both Guerin and Marleau on the wrong side of the puck. That tells me about the tint on your glasses. Both names were mentioned by RW. I won't even go into not having created chances finished. We should all know by now that that particular excuse is really lame. Everyone needs to take responsibility on that issue.

My take is that he was carried in his first year with the Pens. The second year, he fell out of it.

I am not going into the rumor mills, but what was there had me very much against him and still does.

He had quotes about not working enough during the lockout which ended up in Dallas doing the second highest salary buyout in league history to unload him. That is a statement in itself. There were other quotes from his Pitt days where I absolutely cringed. Leadership and Guerin should not be used in the same breath.

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12-29-2010, 08:15 PM
  #70
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Yes, it was both Guerin and Marleau on the wrong side of the puck. That tells me about the tint on your glasses. Both names were mentioned by RW. I won't even go into not having created chances finished. We should all know by now that that particular excuse is really lame. Everyone needs to take responsibility on that issue.

My take is that he was carried in his first year with the Pens. The second year, he fell out of it.

I am not going into the rumor mills, but what was there had me very much against him and still does.

He had quotes about not working enough during the lockout which ended up in Dallas doing the second highest salary buyout in league history to unload him. That is a statement in itself. There were other quotes from his Pitt days where I absolutely cringed. Leadership and Guerin should not be used in the same breath.
You won't find "leadership" in a single one of my posts above. I wanted him for a boost in points and that is all. Veteren Play yes, leadership no. If you don't have leadership before the deadline it doesn't matter.

And anyone who doesn't put about 90% of the blame on Patty for that atrocious play at the end of that game and the other on an asleep Nabby has serious Patty blinders on. Simple as that. I don't care what Wilson said. Was BG slightly out of position on that play? Perhaps. The point is, there shouldn't have even been a play if it weren't for Marleau's choice on the boards.


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12-29-2010, 08:55 PM
  #71
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You won't find "leadership" in a single one of my posts above. I wanted him for a boost in points and that is all. Veteren Play yes, leadership no. If you don't have leadership before the deadline it doesn't matter.

And anyone who doesn't put about 90% of the blame on Patty for that atrocious play at the end of that game and the other on an asleep Nabby has serious Patty blinders on. Simple as that. I don't care what Wilson said. Was BG slightly out of position on that play? Perhaps. The point is, there shouldn't have even been a play if it weren't for Marleau's choice on the boards.
As far as Lang's game 4 tying goal, you are wrong. The blame for that goal squarely falls on Kyle McLaren as Lang was his man, not Marleau's. McLaren over-committed on the blue line. All three forwards including Guerin, who lost the board battle with Filpulla and disengaged him physically and let him skate by, and Rissmiller and Marleau. Defensively, everyone but Rivet failed on that, but only McLaren deserves the lion's share of blame for it.

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12-30-2010, 01:37 AM
  #72
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I don't get why the Sharks would be interested in Langenbrunner, we don't need him AT ALL, why waste money on another forward rather than on a top defensemen which is something we ACTUALLY need. I don't get what Wilson is doing, but it really seems like he's doing nothing to acquire a defensemen. I hope he pulls through like he always does though, lets pray that he does.

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12-30-2010, 04:38 AM
  #73
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I don't get why the Sharks would be interested in Langenbrunner, we don't need him AT ALL, why waste money on another forward rather than on a top defensemen which is something we ACTUALLY need. I don't get what Wilson is doing, but it really seems like he's doing nothing to acquire a defensemen. I hope he pulls through like he always does though, lets pray that he does.
Truthfully i don't think the sharks are interested in J.L. - DW is always talking to GMs about players and is known as a "terrible tire kicker". This is just noise in the system resulting from DWs regular GM chatter.

The fact that he's not stated anything about the teams needs at this time and appears to be not taking action is a concern. There could be lots of action, just that he's secretive and we'll not know until it's a done deal. It's also possible that other GMs won't deal with him as he'll never offer enough to swing the deal and or they feel he's just wasting their time kicking the tires so to speak. I also believe that in the cap based era, deals for high end D are hard to make do to market economics of supply (small) and demand (high).

None of us arm chair GMs will ever know what's going on until it happens - all we can to is ***** and speculate. In the end DWs judged on his teams performance in which we can't completely evaluate until the season is over or near over.

I have to believe given that we all see the teams needs that DW does also.

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12-30-2010, 05:30 AM
  #74
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I said it earlier, and I'll say it again. Please, avoid the New York Post if possible. Reading it will make you dumber.

I can't see any possible trade between the Sharks and Devils. What do they have that would interest the Sharks? And don't say Andy Greene or Anton Volchenkov.

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12-30-2010, 02:36 PM
  #75
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I said it earlier, and I'll say it again. Please, avoid the New York Post if possible. Reading it will make you dumber.

I can't see any possible trade between the Sharks and Devils. What do they have that would interest the Sharks? And don't say Andy Greene or Anton Volchenkov.
Andy Greene AND Anton Volchenkov?

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