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Subban/Plekanec altercation

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Old
12-28-2010, 01:10 PM
  #126
ECWHSWI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Just like with the utilisation of Picard, there is only one person who should have the finger pointed at him in this whole mess, and it's Jacques Martin more than the player.

He had a message to send? You first try to cut the kid's ice time. If it continues, you sit him one game, not 3 in a row! Since then, PK is eating the boards and he's playing very nervously. He's a freakin' rookie so yes, he'll make mistakes, what does he expect? Doesn't he think that Drew Doughty, Shea Weber and Tyler Myers don't make mistakes or don't stretch their shifts from time to time?

So the kid is trying to find ways to get back in the line-up by being intense in practice when the team is slumping! Shame on him!
So, PK doesnt have to take any responsability for his own play ?

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12-28-2010, 01:11 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
While I dont disagree with your post as a whole, when the guy you seems to have a problem with is one of the very few who goes 100% all the time there's more to it than just "practicing hard" IMO.
Well the problem I have is with players who can't handle the rough stuff and that's not only Habs mentality but league mentality. Like everytime there's a fair spectacular hit, but clearly fair, all of a sudden you need to go and defend your teamate. Sorry but to me that's plain stupid. Was clean and fair, chin up next time, take the number if you want and hit him clean and fair when you have the time. Seems that you can't hit anymore. And on a team like the Habs who are clearly not known for their rough play and hitting, well it seems that you clearly can't do it in practice too.

And while I don't believe you should try to make open ice hits on your teamates, there's a freakin limit to not practice hard to avoid injuries either. If you ever been to a Trestman practice, this is freakin insane. The guys aren't hitting each other incredibly hard, but the pace is insane, it's one play after the other, and they are going at it. We should not be surprised that usually, they play like they are practicing. While the Habs, don't like rough practices, they don't seem to like rough games either....Maybe a little more used to it, they'd be able to win those 1 on 1 battles they can't seem to win lately and before.

As far as Subban "problems", I will believe it's more of a on-ice problems than anything else. If so, I don't see why his teamates would be mad at him for anything else but his bad judgment on the ice when he's playing...but he's not right now.

But go back to the lineup and tell me who in this team can be an initiator. Lapierre? Maybe he's responsible for the PK-Lappy dance. Who else? And since your answer is nobody else, well it's understandable that Subban, the guy looking for open-ice hits, the guy with the loudest mouth on the team, one of the most intense guy on the team would be responsible for some situations especially when the said guy is frustrated for not playing.

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12-28-2010, 01:12 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
So, PK doesnt have to take any responsability for his own play ?
He does, but why not just cut his minutes? Instead of playing 20+, start playing less, on the 3rd pair, 2nd PP unit, no PK time. Remove him from the crucial situations and let him fight his way to get them back by improving his play.

His benching has backfired. Subban looks even worse than he did before since returning. Everytime something goes wrong with him on the ice he has to be holding his breath Martin won't scratch him again. Before, when PK effed up, he would make it up somehow, with a big hit or a good chance created. Now when he fudges up, he looks even more tentative out there the next shift.

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12-28-2010, 01:13 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
The thing is when you are judged at not being good enough to play the games, well you do have to practice harder. I mean everybody in this team aren't afraid of being replaced at some point. And clearly even if guys like Picard and Weber were scared of being replaced, they don't seem to have the mentality of roughing up some guys to prove something. Subban does.

So to play games, you need to practice hard. Like I said before, if everybody from this freakin team would practice as hard, the contacts in it would be regular stuff. Now that this cute team is not roughing up anybody 'cause actually nobody in that team can....only Subban seems to overdo it while I would expect such passion from every freakin player of a team desperately needing to get out of that slump. "Time for a Boudreau type of speech...."
I am not sharing the same perception on the incident...

as I think it is good news that veterans go at him ... like any other team with leadership would...

what people on a team at that level don't like is when a guy that hasn't been performing at all tries to play ''too'' physical during practice... is there any problem with the way plekanec plays ? Subban should clearly take some yoga classes and start playing chess... that's how he's going to solve his problem, not by going after a work ethic model like plekanec.

would he go after pouilot or moen ... I'd still find that stupid... but ... you know... not as much.

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12-28-2010, 01:18 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
This.
I had no problem with PK getting scratched for one game, but it went on for far too long thanks to the "don't change a winning lineup" BS.

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12-28-2010, 01:20 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
He does, but why not just cut his minutes? Instead of playing 20+, start playing less, on the 3rd pair, 2nd PP unit, no PK time. Remove him from the crucial situations and let him fight his way to get them back by improving his play.

His benching has backfired. Subban looks even worse than he did before since returning. Everytime something goes wrong with him on the ice he has to be holding his breath Martin won't scratch him again. Before, when PK effed up, he would make it up somehow, with a big hit or a good chance created. Now when he fudges up, he looks even more tentative out there the next shift.

Wish he could, but Hammer and Spacek are used way too much already and Gorges is hurt... Picard is already below the 18min mark... so the 6th guy (be it Weber or Subban) has to play a regular shift.

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12-28-2010, 01:25 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
He does, but why not just cut his minutes? Instead of playing 20+, start playing less, on the 3rd pair, 2nd PP unit, no PK time. Remove him from the crucial situations and let him fight his way to get them back by improving his play.

His benching has backfired. Subban looks even worse than he did before since returning. Everytime something goes wrong with him on the ice he has to be holding his breath Martin won't scratch him again. Before, when PK effed up, he would make it up somehow, with a big hit or a good chance created. Now when he fudges up, he looks even more tentative out there the next shift.
I agree with the direction of your post...

But seems to me his enthousiasm and adrenaline with the puck isn't in question here... as he has limitless potential with the puck and he IS given the PP minutes and the opportunities to explore his game and improve.

On a defensive take, the same enthousiasm he has is making him over excited and vulnerable ... as his positioning is off, he becomes too focussed on the puck and becomes very irritated to a point where he is droping the gloves after ''normal'' hits and checks he receives making him an even more logical target for other teams.

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Old
12-28-2010, 01:27 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE HOFF View Post

On a defensive take, the same enthousiasm he has is making him over excited and vulnerable ... as his positioning is off, he becomes too focussed on the puck and becomes very irritated to a point where he is droping the gloves after ''normal'' hits and checks he receives making him an even more logical target for other teams.
This is a question of maturity, something he'll gain as he gains more experience in this league.

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Old
12-28-2010, 01:29 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE HOFF View Post
I agree with the direction of your post...

But seems to me his enthousiasm and adrenaline with the puck isn't in question here... as he has limitless potential with the puck and he IS given the PP minutes and the opportunities to explore his game and improve.

On a defensive take, the same enthousiasm he has is making him over excited and vulnerable ... as his positioning is off, he becomes too focussed on the puck and becomes very irritated to a point where he is droping the gloves after ''normal'' hits and checks he receives making him an even more logical target for other teams.
What makes Subban successful is what also makes him a high risk player. I agree with Coldplay that you don't sit him 3 games to teach him a lesson. It blew back in Martin's face and Subban is frustrated with the whole thing. I can't say that I blame him.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... here's hoping that Martin isn't trying to change Subban's style, as it would be his biggest mistake! Yes, he will learn when to be safer and when to take chances, but it should be gained by experience, not fear of being sat.

My two cents.

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12-28-2010, 01:41 PM
  #135
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I really like PK but Habs fans all think he will become a superstar in the NHL but he's far from there.

the pros

-He's physical and can make big hits
-He have a good first pass
-Play good in his zone even if he make some rookie mistake
-Can carry the puck really well
-have alot of energy

the cons

-His slapshot is not NHL material right now for a offensive D-men
-He don't have a good wrist shot, I not sure he ever did one this year
-He make some bad judgement in the offensive zone
-When he attack the net with the puck he rarely have a good scoring chance

He have all the tools to become a good NHL player but he need to work on alot of things before he be considering a future superstar in this league

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Old
12-28-2010, 01:50 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
This is a question of maturity, something he'll gain as he gains more experience in this league.
agreed... but on the other hand if he's not showing the signs of adapting his defensive game, there is nothing wrong in making him watch from the press box ... he has to step on the ice with the right state of mind.

reading the comments here ....PK is presented as a veteran NHL entitled to play every game... I personally can't find where all that notoriety comes from. Forget the calder... and think about how great he will be in 5 years and still playing for us. benching him a couple of games is nothing in the big picture.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
What makes Subban successful is what also makes him a high risk player. I agree with Coldplay that you don't sit him 3 games to teach him a lesson. It blew back in Martin's face and Subban is frustrated with the whole thing. I can't say that I blame him.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... here's hoping that Martin isn't trying to change Subban's style, as it would be his biggest mistake! Yes, he will learn when to be safer and when to take chances, but it should be gained by experience, not fear of being sat.

My two cents.
P.K. needs to change.

A high risk player if we have the puck and he tries a deke or he jumps as a 4th man in the attack ... yes, abselutely. That, is already a high risk high reward type of clutch player he will likely become...

without the puck, in his own end ... there is no room for high risk players. And yes, I hope Martin will change subban's ''style'' by making him a more cerebral defensemen who gets an adrenaline shot everytime we recover the puck. Subban plays with an offensive instict on defense, and that's got to change.

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Old
12-28-2010, 02:21 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
I guess people will read what THEY want to read in spite of what the individuals concerned are saying...
I don't understand posts like the one you just made.

I JUST said that I don't think there's anything wrong here. What exactly do you think I want to read in what they're saying ?

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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
OK....I'll just take your word over the word of the Captain or the Coach.

My word ? What are you talking about...

Also are you really so gullible as to think that Gionta will never lie to the medias to downplay any potential **** storms ?

Look, I have no idea, you have no idea and a Gionta media clip is proof of exactly nothing since Gionta will never spill the beans to the medias and will want to keep it in the locker room where it belongs. NOT THAT I BELIEVE ANYTHING IS GOING ON!

Wow... I can't believe people are so defensive about stuff, I mean what I am saying is just plain obvious. I don't know why I'm explaining this... last thing I say on the subject.

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Old
12-28-2010, 10:07 PM
  #138
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The altercation

The media took the thing way out of proportion. It was not as major as they made it seem.

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12-28-2010, 10:30 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by NHLfan View Post
The media took the thing way out of proportion. It was not as major as they made it seem.
exactly antichambre actually showed the incident it was much ado about nothing. pleks didn't like that subban whacked his stick out of his hands..pleks came over to talk and that was it...the team needs subban to play to his skill...support the kid

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Old
12-28-2010, 10:34 PM
  #140
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That was absolutely nothing if you ask me

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12-28-2010, 10:50 PM
  #141
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Hillarious, this is what got the media to go full ****** about how the vets have rotten heart and eat babies? Realy RDS and CKAC need to be nuked or something.

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12-28-2010, 10:51 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go_habs_go View Post
Luc Gelinas - Subban and Plekanec altercation during this morning's practice almost to the point of dropping the gloves.. what's becoming of this!?!

way more intensity in this morning's practice than last nights game..
Plekanec plays like a girl EXCEPT in practice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarantesix View Post
I really like PK but Habs fans all think he will become a superstar in the NHL but he's far from there.

the pros

-He's physical and can make big hits
-He have a good first pass
-Play good in his zone even if he make some rookie mistake
-Can carry the puck really well
-have alot of energy

the cons

-His slapshot is not NHL material right now for a offensive D-men
-He don't have a good wrist shot, I not sure he ever did one this year
-He make some bad judgement in the offensive zone
-When he attack the net with the puck he rarely have a good scoring chance

He have all the tools to become a good NHL player but he need to work on alot of things before he be considering a future superstar in this league
He should do what Pyatt does. Put the puck on the boards and skate for it. Touch it again..and skate for it.That should give us some goals.

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Old
12-28-2010, 10:54 PM
  #143
Coldplay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flowerpower13 View Post
Plekanec plays like a girl EXCEPT in practice.
Is this sarcasm?

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Old
12-28-2010, 10:55 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
He does, but why not just cut his minutes? Instead of playing 20+, start playing less, on the 3rd pair, 2nd PP unit, no PK time. Remove him from the crucial situations and let him fight his way to get them back by improving his play.

His benching has backfired. Subban looks even worse than he did before since returning. Everytime something goes wrong with him on the ice he has to be holding his breath Martin won't scratch him again. Before, when PK effed up, he would make it up somehow, with a big hit or a good chance created. Now when he fudges up, he looks even more tentative out there the next shift.
Kill the creativity. Objective #1 of Jacques Martin. Not developing the kids to work with thei own skills but to all be playing the same game.
Obyrne tried to give some hits, that led to mistakes, OUT.PK tries to creates opportunities, that led to giveaways, OUT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarantesix View Post
and on top of that media point out PK but Cammalleri,AK,Pouliot,Darche and Lappy all got in altercation at some point yesterday.
You play like you practice , all hockey vets tells you that. But if they get hit in the practice by a rookie, they get mad. Then they get the most ice time the next game and don,t show up.

Cammy, Plekie, Gionta etc should step up their game because now they are on the spot.

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Is this sarcasm?
What do you think?

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Old
12-28-2010, 11:11 PM
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flowerpower13 View Post
Kill the creativity. Objective #1 of Jacques Martin. Not developing the kids to work with thei own skills but to all be playing the same game.
Obyrne tried to give some hits, that led to mistakes, OUT.PK tries to creates opportunities, that led to giveaways, OUT.
So lets get rid of the coaching staff, most of the team and upper management because Subban's personal development needs aren't being nurtured in a healthy, supportive environment.

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Old
12-29-2010, 02:42 AM
  #146
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There's defenitely a problem with P.K, is that the same thing as Price last year?

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Old
12-29-2010, 02:45 AM
  #147
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So lets get rid of the coaching staff, most of the team and upper management because Subban's personal development needs aren't being nurtured in a healthy, supportive environment.
Everyone know that the problem isn't Subban-Martin, but Subban-Plekanec and the veterans. If Martin didn't liked Subban he wouldn't used him like he did during the playoff. Gionta, Plek, Gill, Hammer have to step up.

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Old
12-29-2010, 03:32 AM
  #148
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yeah your right I can't wait when they finally step up so we can finally win again! I think that signing James will help us alot! GO HABS GO!

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Old
12-29-2010, 07:18 AM
  #149
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3rd time now, someone has to have a chat with both guys. Nothing wrong with practicing hard but it's obvious it's between both players and last time Plekanec shot a puck right at Subban. Enough guys

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Old
12-29-2010, 12:28 PM
  #150
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Subban did nothing wrong

By the way, I have watched the post-game show on RDS "L'antichambre" last night; they showed some footage of the altercation. On the video, it is 100% clear that its Plekanec that went after Subban, Subban was playing close in front of the net and Plekanec just went on a slashing and crosscheck party. After a few hits Subban turned around, like: "Are you serious??" and Plekanec continue, that's when Subban defended himself...he did NOT instigate like must "yahoos" on the net, are assuming..

Get the facts right folks...long live PK!!

TD

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