HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Ottawa Senators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Sens current paces vs their post-lockout paces

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-04-2010, 06:39 PM
  #1
Xspyrit
Registered User
 
Xspyrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Monterrey, Mexico
Country: Italy
Posts: 14,072
vCash: 500
Sens current paces vs their post-lockout paces

2010-11 PACES VS 2005-10 PACES



(PLAYER GP G A PTS)


Daniel Alfredsson 82 26 26 52 pts vs 82 34 59 93 pts

Jason Spezza 82 24 25 49 pts vs 82 33 60 93 pts

Sergei Gonchar 82 9 28 37 pts vs 82 14 52 66 pts

Alexei Kovalev 82 16 21 37 pts vs 82 26 41 67 pts

Erik Karlsson 82 15 35 50 pts vs 82 7 29 36 pts

Milan Michalek 82 19 13 32 pts vs 82 24 29 53 pts

Mike Fisher 82 21 14 35 pts vs 82 23 26 49 pts

Peter Regin 82 3 22 25 pts vs 82 14 16 30 pts

Ryan Shannon 82 10 13 23 pts vs 82 9 18 27 pts

Chris Kelly 82 19 16 35 pts vs 82 13 18 31 pts

Nick Foligno 82 7 19 26 pts vs 82 14 15 29 pts

Filip Kuba 82 0 13 13 pts vs 82 8 30 38 pts

Chris Campoli 82 2 12 14 pts vs 82 7 22 29 pts

Jesse Winchester 82 7 7 14 pts vs 82 3 17 20 pts

Chris Neil 82 5 16 21 pts vs 82 11 15 26 pts

Jarkko Ruutu 82 5 14 19 pts vs 82 9 11 20 pts

Chris Phillips 82 0 7 7 pts vs 82 6 17 23 pts

Matt Carkner 82 2 5 7 pts vs 82 2 10 12 pts



2010-11 PACES VS 2009-10 PACES



(PLAYER GP G A PTS)


Daniel Alfredsson 82 24 25 49 pts vs 82 23 60 83 pts

Jason Spezza 82 23 28 51 pts vs 82 31 47 78 pts

Sergei Gonchar 82 9 29 38 pts vs 82 14 52 66 pts

Alexei Kovalev 82 18 20 38 pts vs 82 19 33 52 pts

Erik Karlsson 82 19 35 54 pts vs 82 7 29 36 pts

Milan Michalek 82 17 15 32 pts vs 82 27 15 42 pts

Mike Fisher 82 22 13 35 pts vs 82 26 29 55 pts

Peter Regin 82 2 24 26 pts vs 82 14 18 32 pts

Ryan Shannon 82 10 12 22 pts vs 82 6 14 20 pts

Chris Kelly 82 17 18 35 pts vs 82 15 17 32 pts

Nick Foligno 82 9 18 27 pts vs 82 12 23 35 pts

Filip Kuba 82 0 16 16 pts vs 82 4 39 43 pts

Chris Campoli 82 2 11 13 pts vs 82 5 17 22 pts

Jesse Winchester 82 7 7 14 pts vs 82 3 17 20 pts

Chris Neil 82 4 16 20 pts vs 82 12 15 27 pts

Jarkko Ruutu 82 5 13 18 pts vs 82 12 14 26 pts

Chris Phillips 82 0 7 7 pts vs 82 8 16 24 pts

Matt Carkner 82 2 5 7 pts vs 82 2 9 11 pts


Last edited by Xspyrit: 12-27-2010 at 02:38 PM.
Xspyrit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2010, 06:44 PM
  #2
The Mars Volchenkov
Everberg flow
 
The Mars Volchenkov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Colorado
Country: United States
Posts: 38,875
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to The Mars Volchenkov
First of all, that's pretty hard to read.

Second of all, 3 of our top 4 players are in their late 30's. They were going to decline, and they have, and we're suffering the consequences offensively. You just can't build your team around older players like that.

The Mars Volchenkov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2010, 06:52 PM
  #3
MatthewT
Registered User
 
MatthewT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,588
vCash: 500
is it unusual players regress with age?

MatthewT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2010, 06:53 PM
  #4
Xspyrit
Registered User
 
Xspyrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Monterrey, Mexico
Country: Italy
Posts: 14,072
vCash: 500
(current paces) vs (average paces since the lock-out) difference


Daniel Alfredsson -36

Jason Spezza -38

Sergei Gonchar -22

Alexei Kovalev -23

Erik Karlsson +5

Milan Michalek -16

Mike Fisher -14

Peter Regin +2

Ryan Shannon -4

Chris Kelly -12

Nick Foligno -10

Filip Kuba -22

Chris Campoli -13

Jesse Winchester -4

Chris Neil -10

Jarkko Ruutu -7

Chris Phillips -14

Matt Carkner -5

Only Karlsson and Regin are in the +

Xspyrit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2010, 06:55 PM
  #5
Ouroboros
Registered User
 
Ouroboros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,941
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewT View Post
is it unusual players regress with age?
No, but it is unusual for 20 guys to all "regress" at the same time.

Clouston is cooked.

Ouroboros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2010, 07:01 PM
  #6
Xspyrit
Registered User
 
Xspyrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Monterrey, Mexico
Country: Italy
Posts: 14,072
vCash: 500
11 Daniel Alfredsson 37 years old
27 Alexei Kovalev 37 years old
55 Sergei Gonchar 36 years old
73 Jarkko Ruutu 35 years old
17 Filip Kuba 33 years old
4 Chris Phillips 32 years old
25 Chris Neil 31 years old
12 Mike Fisher 30 years old
22 Chris Kelly 30 years old
39 Matt Carkner 30 years old
19 Jason Spezza 27 years old
18 Jesse Winchester 27 years old
26 Ryan Shannon 27 years old
14 Chris Campoli 26 years old
9 Milan Michalek 25 years old
13 Peter Regin 24 years old
71 Nick Foligno 23 years old
65 Erik Karlsson 20 years old

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov View Post
First of all, that's pretty hard to read.

Second of all, 3 of our top 4 players are in their late 30's. They were going to decline, and they have, and we're suffering the consequences offensively. You just can't build your team around older players like that.
I understand for Alfie, Kovalev and Gonchar to decline a bit but they are not OLD. Many players still have an impact at this age. Lidstrom is gonna win the Norris at 40 y/o...

8 players under 30 years old (young) : 44% of the line-up
6 players around 30-33 years old (primes years) : 33% of the line-up
4 players over 35 years old (decline years) : 22% of the line-up

If you count goalies as well, they are both relatively young

I predict that in 3 years, the Sens gonna have one of the youngest team in the NHL. Even next year, Ruutu and Kovalev will be gone, maybe Kuba and Phillips...



PS : Is it easier to read now? I was gonna update it, but you posted very fast!


Last edited by Xspyrit: 12-04-2010 at 07:07 PM.
Xspyrit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2010, 07:08 PM
  #7
MatthewT
Registered User
 
MatthewT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,588
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ouroboros View Post
No, but it is unusual for 20 guys to all "regress" at the same time.

Clouston is cooked.
Its not fair to just pin point it on Clouston

MatthewT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2010, 08:00 AM
  #8
Xspyrit
Registered User
 
Xspyrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Monterrey, Mexico
Country: Italy
Posts: 14,072
vCash: 500
Murray didn't score again last night...

Fire him!


Xspyrit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-21-2010, 10:45 PM
  #9
Xspyrit
Registered User
 
Xspyrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Monterrey, Mexico
Country: Italy
Posts: 14,072
vCash: 500
I will update those paces soon but I bump this because I am going to post random facts in here as well

Chris Kelly

Some say he is overpaid, some call him "stone hands". To me, it just shows how much clueless we are as NHL fans

Of course Kelly misses a lot of his chances but if he wouldn't, he would easily be a top-6 forward based on production, which mean a 20 goals scorer

http://www.nhl.com/ice/app?service=p...ngthGoals&pg=3

What does it show?

Player Team Pos GP G A Pts +/- ESG
61 Rene Bourque CGY L 73 27 31 58 7 17
62 Andrew Ladd CHI L 82 17 21 38 2 17
63 Mike Richards PHI C 82 31 31 62 -2 17
64 Radim Vrbata PHX R 82 24 19 43 6 17
65 TJ Oshie STL C 76 18 30 48 -1 16
66 Tomas Fleischmann WSH L 69 23 28 51 9 16
67 Martin Erat NSH R 74 21 28 49 -7 16
68 Wayne Simmonds LAK R 78 16 24 40 22 16
69 Blake Comeau NYI R 61 17 18 35 -2 16
70 Eric Staal CAR C 70 29 41 70 4 16
71 Stephen Weiss FLA C 80 28 32 60 -7 16
72 Nik Antropov ATL C 76 24 43 67 13 16
73 Alexei Ponikarovsky TOR, PIT L 77 21 29 50 -1 16
74 Jason Pominville BUF R 82 24 38 62 13 16
75 Michael Frolik FLA C 82 21 22 43 -4 16
76 Brandon Sutter CAR C 72 21 19 40 -1 16
77 Scottie Upshall PHX L 49 18 14 32 5 16
78 Derek Roy BUF C 80 26 43 69 9 15
79 Jonathan Toews CHI C 76 25 43 68 22 15
80 Paul Kariya STL L 75 18 25 43 -7 15
81 Gilbert Brule EDM C 65 17 20 37 -8 15
82 Kyle Okposo NYI R 80 19 33 52 -22 15
83 Chris Kelly OTT C 81 15 17 32 -7 15
84 Milan Hejduk COL R 56 23 21 44 6 15
85 Mike Fisher OTT C 79 25 28 53 1 15
86 Steve Downie TBL R 79 22 24 46 14 15
87 Daniel Alfredsson OTT R 70 20 51 71 8 15


Kelly scored 15 goals at Even Strenght last year, same as Fisher and Alfredsson on the Sens, but look what kind of players are around that stat

Kelly is well worth is pay just based on that stat. And he isn't even paid to score primarily

Oh and in case, some think it was just one season, look at this season :

http://www.nhl.com/ice/app?service=p...ngthGoals&pg=3

Tied for 58th in the NHL actually, and has also 1 SHG

In 2008-09, which was a bad season statistically for everyone, he was tied for 156th with 11 goals

Chris Kelly is awesome and I'm glad we still have him


Last edited by Xspyrit: 12-21-2010 at 10:52 PM.
Xspyrit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-21-2010, 10:50 PM
  #10
HSF
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 13,399
vCash: 500
why do we have threads like this. Like honestly i think ppl can conclude that scoring has been down from our players compared to teams from before.

HSF is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-21-2010, 10:55 PM
  #11
ReginKarlssonLehner
Classless, no rispek
 
ReginKarlssonLehner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 22,653
vCash: 500
We will be a better team next year with Rundblad, Landeskog, Richards, Cowen and Vokoun.


ReginKarlssonLehner is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-21-2010, 11:08 PM
  #12
MatthewT
Registered User
 
MatthewT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,588
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
I will update those paces soon but I bump this because I am going to post random facts in here as well

Chris Kelly

Some say he is overpaid, some call him "stone hands". To me, it just shows how much clueless we are as NHL fans

.....

In 2008-09, which was a bad season statistically for everyone, he was tied for 156th with 11 goals

Chris Kelly is awesome and I'm glad we still have him
People are on crack if they complain about Kelly and his contract. Hes a perfect 3rd line centre and is starting to produce, fills a huge hole on this team

MatthewT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-21-2010, 11:38 PM
  #13
Xspyrit
Registered User
 
Xspyrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Monterrey, Mexico
Country: Italy
Posts: 14,072
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HSF View Post
why do we have threads like this. Like honestly i think ppl can conclude that scoring has been down from our players compared to teams from before.
Why not? Is it worse than talking about firing everyone? Or complain about this or about that. At least, I'm talking about facts here, i.e. stats

I can also draw some conclusions (well so far), that I'm only satisfied with Karlsson, Kelly, Neil, Shannon, Winchester and Ruutu offensively

Foligno and Regin paces are up to what they've done before but young guys should progress no?

It's a disaster for guys like Phillips, Kuba and Spezza. Another disappointing season from Michalek who isn't able to produce in Ottawa, well not near what he's done in San Jose.

We understand that Alfie, Kovalev and Gonchar should have a little decline in their stats, but this big drop-off is not natural.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewT View Post
People are on crack if they complain about Kelly and his contract. Hes a perfect 3rd line centre and is starting to produce, fills a huge hole on this team
Particulary if you look around on the market and compare it to contracts like Madden, Malhotra, Pahlsson, Gaustad, Bolland have/had...

Xspyrit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2010, 12:04 AM
  #14
topshelfie
Registered User
 
topshelfie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,585
vCash: 500
I was going to do something like this along with the +/- stat. Gonchar would be near -50. This is a good thread, puts the blame on the right people imo.

topshelfie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2010, 12:26 AM
  #15
Wham City
Registered User
 
Wham City's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Whistler
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,312
vCash: 500
I think comparing 2009/10 paces to this year is a more fruitful exercise.

Wham City is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2010, 01:18 AM
  #16
danishh
Dat Stache
 
danishh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: mtl/ott/somewhere
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,659
vCash: 500
so our team is EK and a bunch of underachievers.

sad.

danishh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2010, 11:05 AM
  #17
senatoilers*
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 415
vCash: 500
Game is becoming more and more about speed. This team is slow and the coaching sucks. Furthermore there is a ton of young talent entering the league and our young talent can't keep up. Spezza and Foligno have no future in this league unless they can develop some explosiveness. Both are slow as molasses for the first 3-4 steps and rely on dangles to get seperation for time and space to work. That's a recipe for disaster... you can't play pond hockey in the new NHL. Regin, Michalek, and Karlsson are the only sub 30 roster players we have who are capable of playing top 9 or top 4 in the new NHL. Sorry Spezza fanboys, the guy's a bust. There's still hope for Foligno since he's only 23 and can still develop speed and explosiveness, but I wouldn't bet on him doing it... he's got "smaller, less talented Spezza" written all over him.

senatoilers* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2010, 11:08 AM
  #18
wjhl2009fan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by senatoilers View Post
Game is becoming more and more about speed. This team is slow and the coaching sucks. Furthermore there is a ton of young talent entering the league and our young talent can't keep up. Spezza and Foligno have no future in this league unless they can develop some explosiveness. Both are slow as molasses for the first 3-4 steps and rely on dangles to get seperation for time and space to work. That's a recipe for disaster... you can't play pond hockey in the new NHL. Regin, Michalek, and Karlsson are the only sub 30 roster players we have who are capable of playing top 9 or top 4 in the new NHL. Sorry Spezza fanboys, the guy's a bust. There's still hope for Foligno since he's only 23 and can still develop speed and explosiveness, but I wouldn't bet on him doing it...
Spezza is not a bust not even close and to say he has no future in the nhl wow you could not be any more wrong.

wjhl2009fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2010, 11:15 AM
  #19
senatoilers*
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 415
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan View Post
Spezza is not a bust not even close and to say he has no future in the nhl wow you could not be any more wrong.
He's on pace for 46pts in 77GP with 3mins of 1st unit PP time per game. He scored 3G, 4A, +5 in 2 games and has 6G, 5A, 11P, -10 in the other 28GP. He's on a 32pt pace outside of those 2 games. He has regressed from 92pts to 73pts to 57pts to now on pace for 46pts... the writing is on the wall man. More and more FAST talent is coming into the league with the same kind of offensive talent as Spezza but with some actual athleticism. Spezza is a relic of a time when unathletic, slow players could get by on offensive creativity alone. The game has passed him by and he has shown no ability to keep up with it.

senatoilers* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2010, 11:21 AM
  #20
wjhl2009fan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by senatoilers View Post
He's on pace for 46pts in 77GP with 3mins of 1st unit PP time per game. He scored 3G, 4A, +5 in 2 games and has 6G, 5A, -10 in the other 28. He has regressed from 92pts to 73pts to 57pts to now on pace for 46pts... the writing is on the wall man. More and more FAST talent is coming into the league with the same kind of offensive talent as Spezza but with some actual athleticism. Spezza is a relic of a time when unathletic, slow players could get by on offensive creativity alone. The game has passed him by and he has shown no ability to keep up with it.
Yes he has had one bad year but having a bad year does not make a player a bust.He his not a relic and to say the game has passed him by is false.He was ottawa's top points getter last year in the play offs.Now with that said if you beleave he is a relic fine but you can't just single out jason you have to look around the league many many players would fall under that label.He has not regressed again players have bad years from time to time and not a bad year does not mean a player is a bust and no the writting is not on the wall.

wjhl2009fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2010, 11:28 AM
  #21
CanadianHockey
Smith - Alfie
 
CanadianHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,756
vCash: 500
The bottom line guys are doing fine. It's the top-6 that hasn't been getting it done. That said, they've been ok point wise if you exclude that stretch after the Leafs game, and whenever Leclaire starts.

CanadianHockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2010, 11:31 AM
  #22
senatoilers*
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 415
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan View Post
Yes he has had one bad year but having a bad year does not make a player a bust.He his not a relic and to say the game has passed him by is false.He was ottawa's top points getter last year in the play offs.Now with that said if you beleave he is a relic fine but you can't just single out jason you have to look around the league many many players would fall under that label.He has not regressed again players have bad years from time to time and not a bad year does not mean a player is a bust and no the writting is not on the wall.
You must be one of those guys that said Spezza would break out with a 100pt season now that Heatley left and he can focus on creating his own offense. Then you probably said Spezza would break out this year now that he's had a year to adjust with life without Heatley. Maybe next year? Or will he have to adjust to life without Alfredsson?

senatoilers* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2010, 11:35 AM
  #23
Stylizer1
BoomBapOriginalRap
 
Stylizer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
so our team is EK and a bunch of underachievers.

sad.
Ahhhh, stonehand takes offence to that.

Stylizer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2010, 12:21 PM
  #24
L'Aveuglette
Restin' my groin.
 
L'Aveuglette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,566
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by senatoilers View Post
You must be one of those guys that said Spezza would break out with a 100pt season now that Heatley left and he can focus on creating his own offense. Then you probably said Spezza would break out this year now that he's had a year to adjust with life without Heatley. Maybe next year? Or will he have to adjust to life without Alfredsson?
Nope, Spezza apologists are now down to using the excuse that he needs better linemates. Not like our #1 center can make them better or anything. Nope it's always the other guys' fault.

L'Aveuglette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2010, 12:25 PM
  #25
Lenny the Lynx
Registered User
 
Lenny the Lynx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,928
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by senatoilers View Post
He's on pace for 46pts in 77GP with 3mins of 1st unit PP time per game. He scored 3G, 4A, +5 in 2 games and has 6G, 5A, 11P, -10 in the other 28GP. He's on a 32pt pace outside of those 2 games. He has regressed from 92pts to 73pts to 57pts to now on pace for 46pts... the writing is on the wall man. More and more FAST talent is coming into the league with the same kind of offensive talent as Spezza but with some actual athleticism. Spezza is a relic of a time when unathletic, slow players could get by on offensive creativity alone. The game has passed him by and he has shown no ability to keep up with it.
You're missing the point that he's on a 287 PT pace outside of those 28 games.

the writing is not on the wall man, this is oversimplifying things. You can't take scoring out of context - guys who get 100 pts usually play for high scoring teams. Our team scoring is incredibly low this year so obviously everybody is on a poor personal pace. There's no reason to think Spezza won't return to point a game paces when the team turns it around. The NHL hasn't passed him by, this team just sucks

Lenny the Lynx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:02 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.