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UFC vs Dream (Pride)

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12-28-2010, 12:52 AM
  #1
Kriss E
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UFC vs Dream (Pride)

What I've mostly been critical of the UFC, or Dana White, is how his UFC are often quite lacking even though he pretty much holds most of the talent out there.

I thought the events being held this weekend are the perfect example.
On one side, you have Dream having an ultimate event, ''Dynamite'' on the 31st, making pretty much every big name fight.
The following day, you have UFC, with Edgar vs Maynard. Gomi vs Guida might be the only other interesting fight on the menu that night. This, for their card on the 1st.

I've been saying it for a while and is the main reason as to why I lost interest in the UFC. Dana White is all about Quantity and not Quality. All of his boring Ultimate Fighter shows, Fight nights, lack luster PPVs, at times doing as many as 2 PPVs per month, are proving that. Instead, he could cut back and create much more entertaining events.

It's just too damn bad..but good to see Dream putting forth some quality entertainment.


Last edited by Kriss E: 12-28-2010 at 01:36 AM.
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Old
12-28-2010, 12:54 AM
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rumor has it Lesnar is now done, heading back to WWE...

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12-28-2010, 12:59 AM
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What's wrong with The Ultimate Fighter? It helped build up the GSP vs. Koshchick (!) fight really well. It was pretty amusing watching Tito act like a *****, too.

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12-28-2010, 01:15 AM
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The explanation is mostly economic. Pride folded, and Dream will too. Apparently they are late in paying most of their fighters, that's why most Japanese stars are headed to the UFC. There's really no sense of ranking or order to the sport in Japan as there is with the UFC. They just put cards together based on what's available. For sure they manage to put up interesting fights, but nothing compared to their heyday 6 years ago. They didn't build a sound business model and pretty much lost all of their talent to the UFC. By the sounds of it, Dream probably won't make it through the next year.

White has done a pretty good job of stabilizing the sport and making it legitimate. It has taken some of the excitement out of some cards, but overall there's a lot more interesting fights today than five years ago when there were much less cards over the year.

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12-28-2010, 01:16 AM
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I enjoy MMA but the thing that has always bugged me about UFC is that it's too much of a controled environment and all the fighters have to crawl to the mighty Dana White like beat down dogs. Seriously look at the fighters talk in interviews, they look like scared puppies. It's a rigid, boring dictatorship. Like the WWE in wrestling.

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12-28-2010, 01:51 AM
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The new year card would have looked 1000x more exciting if Jose Aldo wasn't injured

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Old
12-28-2010, 02:14 AM
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Kriss E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs13 View Post
What's wrong with The Ultimate Fighter? It helped build up the GSP vs. Koshchick (!) fight really well. It was pretty amusing watching Tito act like a *****, too.
Build up the fight?..Anybody that actually knows about this sports and those fighters knew there was nothing to hype. Koscheck's ONLY chance was to land a lucky punch like Serra had done.
UF sucks not because of the fights, it's bad because it's usually a bunch of moronic male fighters that break down a house and act as dumb as anyone can be. You also have the constant appearance of White, who's absolutely fame hungry (don't get me started on his pathetic little show set up when he was supposed to fight Ortiz a few years back). Then you usually have some fighters talking crap, trying to hype up a fight that almost never lives up to expectations.

I wouldn't mind it as much if he had done it once a year or so, but not 12seasons in 5years.

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Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post
The explanation is mostly economic. Pride folded, and Dream will too. Apparently they are late in paying most of their fighters, that's why most Japanese stars are headed to the UFC. There's really no sense of ranking or order to the sport in Japan as there is with the UFC. They just put cards together based on what's available. For sure they manage to put up interesting fights, but nothing compared to their heyday 6 years ago. They didn't build a sound business model and pretty much lost all of their talent to the UFC. By the sounds of it, Dream probably won't make it through the next year.

White has done a pretty good job of stabilizing the sport and making it legitimate. It has taken some of the excitement out of some cards, but overall there's a lot more interesting fights today than five years ago when there were much less cards over the year.
Pride didn't fold because they were close to bankruptcy or out of money directly. They closed down because DSE was rumored to be a front for a Yakuza organization (Mafia) and a breach of contract was made with Fuji TV. The TV deal was then canceled and anybody linked to DSE was banned from Fuji TV as well.
SkyPerfectTV! took over the broadcasting rights and the show went on with the first Pride in the USA.
Not too long after that, Pride was bought out by Zuffa.

There were different rumors at the time that Pride would remain up and running. That the Ferttita broz were going to run this company as an independent one to UFC/WEC, but eventually, it got pretty much dismantled.

I have not heard anything about Dream having any financial problems so I'd like to know where you got that from. It's the replacement of the K1 Hero's that has always been good.

The reason they're not putting the same crazy cards we saw a few years back is because they lost a lot of fighters and suffered huge set backs. But looking at what they're putting forward now knowing what they went through is quite amazing.

Dana White has marketed his sport well, I'll give him that much. He also had a lot of help back when Pride went down and his boss bought out the competition (that was better imo). The guy was on top of the MMA world at that point. Not a single worry.
But looking at the huge amount of talent he has in his roster, it's extremely disappointing that he has yet to find some alternative to his PPVs (like Tournaments) and that he still puts forth very lack luster events.


And I disagree about more having more interesting fights today than 5years ago. How often do you actually watch a fight and don't know who's going to win??..It's almost as predictable as WWF (WWE now I believe..) match.

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Old
12-28-2010, 02:37 AM
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GSP for President

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12-28-2010, 10:26 AM
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Habs13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Build up the fight?..Anybody that actually knows about this sports and those fighters knew there was nothing to hype. Koscheck's ONLY chance was to land a lucky punch like Serra had done.
Ok, true enough ; people that follow the sport already knew that Josh had a problem with GSP but you don't think all Kosheck's stupid comments on TUF 12 had anything to do with the treatment he got in Montreal?

I don't like White either, in fact his attitude drives me nuts but you have to admit, he took something good and brought it to mainstream media. Just look how big the sport has become since White tepped into the spotlight.

As for TUF, sure it's a pretty low-brow, brainless bunch of muscleheads acting like monkeys but it gives you interesting fights and a behind the scenes look at the training and physical fitness aspect.

What I'd like to see would be UFC on cable tv and title fights on PPV, like WWF/WWE does (Although I hate WWE) ...we almost have that with the occasional fight card on Spike. But why would they move away from PPV when we're still paying for the events and making them millions?

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12-28-2010, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I have not heard anything about Dream having any financial problems so I'd like to know where you got that from. It's the replacement of the K1 Hero's that has always been good.
Then you don't really know much about what you're talking about and make extremely long winded posts just for the sake of seeing your post count increase

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Old
12-28-2010, 11:51 AM
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Kriss E
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Originally Posted by cue_meanie View Post
Then you don't really know much about what you're talking about and make extremely long winded posts just for the sake of seeing your post count increase
Yes, that's my goal here, make my post count increase.

I honestly had not heard any of the financial woes DREAM is going through because I have not been following much outside watching the fights. I have not followed DREAM as I have followed Pride, at all. I just watch the fights and go about my life.
In any event, the financial situation is irrelevant.
My point was that the entertainment aspect of this sport was a lot more interesting with the way Japan presented it, and still do.
Whether it's today in a struggling DREAM organization, or during Pride's prime, the events were always much better than the ones offered by the UFC, and still are.

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12-28-2010, 11:52 AM
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rumor has it Lesnar is now done, heading back to WWE...
Really? I mean he did get embarrassed, but not like he will be the only one.

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Old
12-28-2010, 12:27 PM
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Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Habs13 View Post
Ok, true enough ; people that follow the sport already knew that Josh had a problem with GSP but you don't think all Kosheck's stupid comments on TUF 12 had anything to do with the treatment he got in Montreal?

I don't like White either, in fact his attitude drives me nuts but you have to admit, he took something good and brought it to mainstream media. Just look how big the sport has become since White tepped into the spotlight.

As for TUF, sure it's a pretty low-brow, brainless bunch of muscleheads acting like monkeys but it gives you interesting fights and a behind the scenes look at the training and physical fitness aspect.

What I'd like to see would be UFC on cable tv and title fights on PPV, like WWF/WWE does (Although I hate WWE) ...we almost have that with the occasional fight card on Spike. But why would they move away from PPV when we're still paying for the events and making them millions?
I'm not big on the reality tv shows, so that's maybe why I'm not a huge fan.

But I'm not dissing White for the business side of this. He's done a great job in general. I'm just speaking of the PPVs that I find boring most of the time.

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12-28-2010, 12:44 PM
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Habs
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Really? I mean he did get embarrassed, but not like he will be the only one.
Meltzer is reporting this story. Apparently Brock has realized he has enough money, and not enough skill, to remain at the top... so why risk any further damage? He could make more in the WWE, and take a lot less damage to his body, and pride.

Not sure how true it is, but a pretty reliable source.

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12-28-2010, 12:45 PM
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It's far from the best card, but Vera-Silva should be a great fight too. I mean, Silva is probably in the top 5 best light-heavyweight in the world after Rua-Machida-Evans, so it's not as if he was some unknown fighter.

And then you have a fight with Chris Leben. Have you ever seen a boring Leben fight? Not me!

Is there too many events? Maybe, but as a MMA fan, I won't complain since I would watch twice more. The only cards I can really complain about are the ones they build for events in the UK. Those are really average. But usually, I'd say that 8 cards out of 10 are pretty interesting.

Dream has a few "big names" on the 31st, but be honest : most of these fighters are just not good enough to fight in the UFC.

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12-28-2010, 12:46 PM
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UFC 125 card is awesome.

Can't wait to see Kim Dong Hyun again.

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12-28-2010, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Meltzer is reporting this story. Apparently Brock has realized he has enough money, and not enough skill, to remain at the top... so why risk any further damage? He could make more in the WWE, and take a lot less damage to his body, and pride.

Not sure how true it is, but a pretty reliable source.
That would make sense.......if Pro Wrestling wasn't 100 times more destructive to your body than MMA is

Think of it, in MMA you train for months at your own pace without pressure and show up to fight for 15-25 minutes twice a year, maybe less

Wrestling your trashing your body around for about 15 minutes a night, at least twice a week if not more if you got house shows and ppv events. On top of that, you're always on the road travelling. For someone that has two young kids like Brock, I don't see how this could be a better option at all

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12-28-2010, 01:37 PM
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It's far from the best card, but Vera-Silva should be a great fight too. I mean, Silva is probably in the top 5 best light-heavyweight in the world after Rua-Machida-Evans, so it's not as if he was some unknown fighter.

And then you have a fight with Chris Leben. Have you ever seen a boring Leben fight? Not me!

Is there too many events? Maybe, but as a MMA fan, I won't complain since I would watch twice more. The only cards I can really complain about are the ones they build for events in the UK. Those are really average. But usually, I'd say that 8 cards out of 10 are pretty interesting.

Dream has a few "big names" on the 31st, but be honest : most of these fighters are just not good enough to fight in the UFC.
Silva is ranked #9 LHW, but then again, Griffin and Bader are #5-6 respectively while Couture is at #10. So I wouldn't put much weight on those ratings.
Vera has bored me in most of his fights.
Yes, Leben's fights are rarely boring, it is true.

You can have two completely unknown beginners fighting in the Preliminaries and win the fight of the night bonus. That's not really what I'm talking about.

What I'm saying is that with all the talent he has, he could make at least one super PPV, but he doesn't even do that.

You can say Dream's fighters aren't ''good'' enough to fight in the UFC. But then you have to wonder, would the UFC fighters would hold their own in Dream?..under different rules??..
Golden boy at the time, Chuck Liddell, went out to fight in Pride and if I remember correctly his corner threw in the towel as he was getting pounded away by Rampage.

Fact remains, Dream are making a lot of their big fighters perform on that night. They did this for a long time, even in Pride. The Pride Shockwave events were phenomenal and not one event in the UFC can even come close to them imo.
Dream is doing the same with Dynamite.

Surely with all the talent White has under contract, he certainly could demolish the Dynamite card.

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12-28-2010, 02:36 PM
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I miss Pride

Those events were bigger than life. The whole production was out of this world and made every event magical. UFC could not compete to that, they just happened to win a war of attrition based off of unfortunate crooked activities on Prides part. UFC events were hurting beyond belief and Pride was cleaning up the ppv ratings before their demise.

Ah well, MMA has lost it's lustre, lack of competition is killing the sport, we're doomed to watch cookie cutter events month to month while Zuffa's laughing all the way to the bank.

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12-28-2010, 02:38 PM
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on a side note, When Jackson walked out to the Pride FC theme song, i was over whelmed with chills!!! it was such a wonderful entrance song to hear once again. Brought a tear to my eye.

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12-28-2010, 02:43 PM
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a thing of beauty!!


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12-28-2010, 02:46 PM
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Last edited by maci4life: 12-28-2010 at 03:33 PM. Reason: GREAT SUCCESS!!!!!
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Old
12-28-2010, 03:11 PM
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Kriss E
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Originally Posted by maci4life View Post
I miss Pride

Those events were bigger than life. The whole production was out of this world and made every event magical. UFC could not compete to that, they just happened to win a war of attrition based off of unfortunate crooked activities on Prides part. UFC events were hurting beyond belief and Pride was cleaning up the ppv ratings before their demise.

Ah well, MMA has lost it's lustre, lack of competition is killing the sport, we're doomed to watch cookie cutter events month to month while Zuffa's laughing all the way to the bank.
But but but...GSP vs Koscheck was soooo good!..

UFC realized they could make any fight interesting to most viewers as long as they marketed the crap out of it.



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12-28-2010, 03:29 PM
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maci4life
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But but but...GSP vs Koscheck was soooo good!..

UFC realized they could make any fight interesting to most viewers as long as they marketed the crap out of it.


hey, how did you embed the video????!?!?!?!?

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12-28-2010, 03:33 PM
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GREAT SUCCESS!!!

i figured it out.

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