HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Calgary Flames
Notices

You're the New GM... What do you do?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-29-2010, 04:24 AM
  #26
Nachoman AlfieSavage*
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eating nachos up top
Posts: 2,245
vCash: 500
I would **** my pants, because calgary is in trouble for a long time. All the junk i would want to be rid of is protected with nmc/ntc's. So, unfortunately there isnt a lot that could be done in the next 2 years. Sutter really ****ed us over trying to save his a$$ (sorry, but the idiot makes me so mad).

So, what would i do? Start with Jaybo. Yes, hes good. I like him, but his cap hit is huge and his play doesnt justify it. Hate to use them as an example but those nucks got Erhoff for what? a second rounder? And his level of play is relatively close to Jaybo's. So i would find a team who would throw me picks and a prospect (I think a first and a mid prospect is fair considering his huge cap hit) as well as some salary dumps with 1 year left on their contract.

Then i go to Kipper. I hate to say it, but Calgary is a bad team not going anywhere. By the time this team is ready to make it past the first round again, he wont be the goalie he is now. He is probably the most valuable asset, aside from iggy, and will fetch a sizable return. I predict a first and a top level prospect and salary dumps (with 1 year left or in last year), or a first, a second, mid to low prospect and dumps.

Next is Borque. Sorry kid, i like ya, but this team is 5 years away from making the playoffs in my opinion. We just dont need you. Trade for a high second round pick and a fifth.

Regehr. Try to get a first, settle for second from a lottery team.

Iginla, i keep. Why? 1 reason and 1 reason only. He is class, and he defines leadership. He has been to the cup finals, and he knows what it takes. He is a good role model for the young guys this team will be taking on in the future, and can really help in their development. If it were up to me, he'll retire a flame.

Keep in mind, not all these picks are firsts next year, some would be the year following. Especially considering this upcoming draft is supposed to be weak.

So we gather up a bunch of firsts as well as our own this year. Then next year, we dont fa sign. We tank 1 more year for another high level first.

Then i wait until all these ****ing retarded contracts expire. So after this 3 year period (this year, then 2 more) calgary could in theory have up to 6 top 10 first round picks. It can be reassessed at that point whether or not fa signing around the new core of young guns would be viable. Perhaps 1 years of development and analysis. Then i would make a 5 year plan. Then i would bring olli jokinen back, then................


Last edited by Noori: 12-29-2010 at 02:49 PM. Reason: offensive
Nachoman AlfieSavage* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2010, 06:09 AM
  #27
debil
Registered User
 
debil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Nitra, Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 975
vCash: 500
i dont think long rebuilding is inevitable. Few good moves and were back in the game. It really makes no sense to say what would i do because it depends on what other teams would be willing to trade.

For instance so much discussed iginla trade. If i was offered top prospect (lets say seguin, tavares, schenn, etc) + 1st, i'd do it. Otherwise i wouldn't.

Generally i prefer trading core player (iginla, kiprusoff) for top prospect/top centers. Some teams that are in "this is the season" mood, can do crazy trades. Trading for picks does not guarantee the reward.

Get rid of Jokinen, kotalik,staios,babchuk. no matter how.

Bring in Nemisz. Albeit being just 0.5ppg with the Heat, still leads the team in points.

Trade Hagman, Stajan, Moss for some upgrage.

Keep Giordano, Bourque, Glencross, Backlund, Tanguay.

regehr, sarich - might stay but if you're offered good trade that will make this team better trade them. Particularly regehr might attract some GMs in the east.

bouwmeester - not sure here, we need top dman , however, this one is paid 7mil and provides no offense at all. i probably wouldnt trade him unless some crazy offer came.

+ Take top5 pick 2011, do not finish 9th or 10th.


Last edited by debil: 12-29-2010 at 06:27 AM.
debil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2010, 09:45 AM
  #28
MarkGio
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,820
vCash: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck91 View Post
I don't mean to nitpick, but why are you buying out Jokinen and then replacing him with Kopecky? Doesn't make much sense.
Jokinen has a losing mentality, which would have to be avoided at all costs when rebuilding with a young influencal group, hence buying him out assuming he can't be traded. Kopecky is just a one season filler that allows the 2011 draft picks to spend one more year in development. Remember that when an organization is rebuilding, a hockey club needs to develop their own forwards, not acquire other team's development. But it takes proper development, therefore it's important not to push a given draft pick class. Kopecky wasn't suppose to be Jokinen's replacement, but if that's what you gathered, how can you complain because Kopecky is a freeking step up?

MarkGio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2010, 10:59 AM
  #29
debil
Registered User
 
debil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Nitra, Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 975
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
Jokinen has a losing mentality
agreed. there are guys that win even though their skills are average. then there are guys that loose with any team they play for. Jokinen is one of these guys. Get rid of this garbage, give a chance to Nemisz and Erixon. These guys are near-ready.

debil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2010, 11:23 AM
  #30
Av-merican
@Av_merican
 
Av-merican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Frozen Wasteland
Country: Scotland
Posts: 10,723
vCash: 500
Can't resist. I love playing armchair GM no matter what the team.

I'd first shop Iginla and Kipprusoff since they're obviously the best players on the team. I would think I could get something nice from Los Angeles (Schenn?) or St. Louis (Berglund + prospect, who knows) in exchange for him. Kipper would be harder to move but if there was something of value coming back I'd do it and just get Karlsson + table scraps to mind the net in the interim.

Next, move whatever is moveable. Tanguay, Regehr, Morrison, Moss, Kosto, Babchuk, Glencross, anyone.

I don't think Kotalik or Jokinen are moveable assets. I would NOT buy them out, however I'd waive both, stow 'em both in the minors and wait for them to bolt to Europe. Suspend their contracts, problem solved. Of course if Sutter stupidly gave both NMCs then the team's going to have to play the kind of hardball Toronto played with Brian McCabe. Basically just tell them not to show up at the rink and let them stew. Eventually they'll acquiesce.

The core going forward for better or worse: Giordano, Backlund, Bourque, Brodie, Bouwmeester. Maybe Kipper too if he can't be moved.

And finally, I actually would buy out Stajan. No way around it--the deal is simply not moveable and there's no way he'll ever live up to it. I suppose if Calgary has the cap room to keep him he won't be out of place. IMO though he has more value as cleared cap space than he does sticking around.

The cap works in Calgary's favor here. Just like Atlanta did, you just gotta wait for a team bursting at the seams and poach with impunity. Philly's gonna have to shed a good player here sooner or later. Chicago might have to do so again as well.

The Avs proved that while a trip to the bottom might be necessary, you don't have to stay there. It wasn't too long ago that we had an old, slow team and a joke of a prospect base. We still have a ways to go but we'd be fools to complain about the progress made thus far. There's no reason to think the Flames won't get a solid player in the first round in 2011 to build around.

On a side note--Kopecky? Hmmmm...a lot of complaints I hear from Calgary fans are that the Flames are too slow. Even if he's just an interim measure I don't think you want to stock your team with players like that if the goal is to get younger and faster, no offense.

Av-merican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2010, 11:42 AM
  #31
Stewie Griffin
Moderator
Benevolent Overlord
 
Stewie Griffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Calgary
Posts: 6,738
vCash: 1200
Alright, here we go. Player by player:

Jarome Iginla, age 33, $7 million cap hit through 2012/13, NMC
I expect that Iggy would waive to avoid creating another Sundin situation. Expectations of trade value: First round pick, high end prospect, mid range prospect, salary dump.

Daymond Langkow, age 34, $4.5 million cap hit through 2011/12 (LTIR) NMC
Expectations of trade value: none. May never return to the NHL.

Matthew Stajan, age 27, $3.5 million cap hit through 2013/14, modified NTC
I do not expect Stajan to be traded, as he is an adequate 2nd line centre on a good team, and is a good first line centre for a team competing for a lottery pick. Contract expires at age 31. If I recall, his NTC limits potential trades to teams in established hockey markets only. Contrary to popular opinion, he's being paid market value for a 50-60 point pass first centre.

Rene Bourque, age 29, $3.3 million cap hit through 2015/16, modified NTC
Expectations of trade value: high end prospect & salary dump, or mid range prospect and first round pick. I don't think he should be kept, as he's a marketable asset.

Ales Kotalik, age 32, $3 million cap hit through 2011/12, modified NTC
I honestly don't think there's much trade value here. During a rebuild, he can be a key component.

Nik Hagman, age 31, $3 million cap hit through 2011/12
Good trade value, either in the off-season or at the deadline next year.

Olli Jokinen, age 32, $3 million cap hit through 2011/12, NMC
After Iginla is traded, give him 30:00 of ice time/game, and let him pad his stats. Then trade him at the deadline next year to a contender while his value is highest.
(In reality, there's not a lot of trade value here)

Alex Tanguay, age 31, $1.7 million cap hit through 2010/11, NMC
I don't think Tanguay will waive his NMC at the deadline, since one of his main issues was the constant address changes over the last three years (Calgary, Montreal, Tampa, Calgary).

David Moss, age 27, $1.3 million cap hit through 2011/12
Tradeable asset. Figure a 2nd/3rd round pick to the right team looking to shore up the bottom six.

Mikael Backlund, $1.27 million cap hit through 2011/12
Must keep.

Curtis Glencross, $1.2 million cap hit through 2010/11
Tradeable asset. Probably worth a bit more than Moss, as Glencross is a pending UFA, and is basically an outstanding bottom six player.

Brendan Morrison $725,000 cap hit through 2010/11
Tradeable asset. Figure a 2nd round pick, possibly higher, to a playoff bound team with injury concerns down the middle (Pittsburgh?)

Tom Kostopoulos $916,667 cap hit through 2011/12
Could be traded at the deadline next year.

Raitis Ivanans ,$600,000 cap hit through 2011/12 (LTIR)


Tim Jackman, $550,000 cap hit through 2011/12
Say what you want about Sutter, he could find some decent third/fourth line talent.

Craig Conroy, age=old, $500,000 cap hit through 2010/11
He might waive to go to a contender / playoff bound team, but unless a team wants that grizzled veteran it's unlikely he's going anywhere. He'll get a job as an analyst on TSN after the Flames hire Pierre McGuire.

Jay Bouwmeester, age 27, $6.68 million cap hit through 2013/14, NTC
There's not a trade deadline market for Bouwmeester, but in the off-season he might command a return higher than Phaneuf. I'd like to see him traded, simply because he'll probably result in a decent young player or two, a prospect or two, and a high draft pick.

Robyn Regehr, age 30, $4.02 million cap hit through 2012/13, NMC
Definitely tradeable; those who claim otherwise are either biased against Regehr, or don't watch him play. It's possibly an off-season move due to the high-ish salary but it could happen at the deadline. Must have at least a mid-high prospect / mid-high pick in return, with salary dump. There were quiet rumours is that Regehr was asked to waive in the off-season, and he declined. Now that Sutter's out, that might change.

Cory Sarich, age 32, $3.6 million cap hit through 2011/12, NMC
Playoff warrior, and might be available at the deadline if he wants to go. 2nd round pick is what I would target, anything more would be a bonus. Otherwise, might as well keep him.

Steve Staios, age=older than dirt. $2.7 million cap hit through 2010/11
Currently injured, probably here until the season ends.

Anton Babchuk, age 26, $1.4 million cap hit through 2010/11
Might be worth holding on to The Anton, but if he can't be signed to an extension paying him less than $2 million/year before the deadline, trade him for a 3rd/4th to a team needing the cannon on the PP.

Mark Giordano, age 27, $4.02 million cap hit starting 2011/12 through 2015/16, NMC to 2014, NTC to 2015
Gio is an interesting situation. Until July 1, he can be traded - and for the right offer, I would trade him. I'm greedy, and would want an overpayment, since I have no problem keeping him either.

Adam Pardy, age 26, $700,000 cap hit through 2010/11.
I'd re-sign Pardy for $1 million or less; he's an effective #5/6 defenseman on a rebuilding team.

Brendan Mikkelson, age 23, $687,500 cap hit through 2010/11
I'd re-sign Mikkelson for $1 million or so; he's an effective #5/6 defenseman on a rebuilding team.

Miikka Kiprusoff, age 34, $5.83 milllion cap hit through 2013/14, NMC through 2011/12
If he'll waive his NMC, I'd like to trade him, since the Flames will probably want to be less successful in 2011/12 season, and we don't want him stealing games. So either he gets traded (and the market is absolute crap for goalies) or Karlsson gets more starts next season.

Henrik Karlsson, age 27, $500,000 cap hit through 2010/11
I say sign him to an extension, with the promise of more starts (and more money). If he can handle the additional workload, it makes Kipper expendable that much quicker.

Stewie Griffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2010, 11:51 AM
  #32
MarkGio
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,820
vCash: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
I don't think Kotalik or Jokinen are moveable assets. I would NOT buy them out, however I'd waive both, stow 'em both in the minors and wait for them to bolt to Europe. Suspend their contracts, problem solved. Of course if Sutter stupidly gave both NMCs then the team's going to have to play the kind of hardball Toronto played with Brian McCabe. Basically just tell them not to show up at the rink and let them stew. Eventually they'll acquiesce.
An organization can't treat players like that and expect to attract players around the league. Toronto, New York, and Edmonton are prime examples. What player is willing to waive their NTC to play in any of those cities, or what Free Agent is willing to play in such cities without being paid a ridiculous salary? And then look at Detroit, which managed to get bargain signings from respected players, and Detroit isn't exactly the city anybody would want to raise a family in. Players know which organizations are classy and which are not. Only prospects are stuck with a given team, hence, only young draft picks have no choice but to play in such cities as Toronto or Edmonton.

Living up to your contract is important from both sides, but burrying players sends a bad message around the league. Buying them out on the other hand is not inhibiting them from playing at the NHL, whereas waiving might inhibit, depending on the contract. Most importantly, buying out a player allows them to be paid for their service, even if the player's service was poor.


Last edited by MarkGio: 12-29-2010 at 12:17 PM.
MarkGio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2010, 12:06 PM
  #33
Stewie Griffin
Moderator
Benevolent Overlord
 
Stewie Griffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Calgary
Posts: 6,738
vCash: 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
I don't think Kotalik or Jokinen are moveable assets. I would NOT buy them out, however I'd waive both, stow 'em both in the minors and wait for them to bolt to Europe. Suspend their contracts, problem solved. Of course if Sutter stupidly gave both NMCs then the team's going to have to play the kind of hardball Toronto played with Brian McCabe. Basically just tell them not to show up at the rink and let them stew. Eventually they'll acquiesce.
Jokinen can't be buried in the minors; he has a NMC. Kotalik has a (very limited) NTC, but that was given to him by Sather.

Besides, both of these contracts expire by 2012, and if the Flames go into full rebuild mode then both of these players can help the team meet the salary floor next season.

Stewie Griffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2010, 12:08 PM
  #34
MarkGio
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,820
vCash: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
Mark Giordano, age 27, $4.02 million cap hit starting 2011/12 through 2015/16, NMC to 2014, NTC to 2015
Gio is an interesting situation. Until July 1, he can be traded - and for the right offer, I would trade him. I'm greedy, and would want an overpayment, since I have no problem keeping him either.
If it was up to me, I wouldn't give up Giordano for anything. He should be made captain to a rebuilding team because he plays every shift like it's his last. That kind of attitude leading a young group is setting a dynasty tempo. Even after signing his new extension for big money, he's the only player on this team that comes out every night. He has the best work ethic on the team, he's gritty as sand paper, he has offensive upside, defensive responsibility, he can handle the media well, and he makes a resonable salary. If Calgary didn't have Reghre and Jaybow, then Giordano would be skating the kind of minutes that would have him noticed for the Norris, if he isn't already.

MarkGio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2010, 12:20 PM
  #35
CoRD
Rebizzle my Flizzle
 
CoRD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: In the studio
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,554
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
If it was up to me, I wouldn't give up Giordano for anything. He should be made captain to a rebuilding team because he plays every shift like it's his last. That kind of attitude leading a young group is setting a dynasty tempo. Even after signing his new extension for big money, he's the only player on this team that comes out every night. He has the best work ethic on the team, he's gritty as sand paper, he has offensive upside, defensive responsibility, he can handle the media well, and he makes a resonable salary. If Calgary didn't have Reghre and Jaybow, then Giordano would be skating the kind of minutes that would have him noticed for the Norris, if he isn't already.
Co-sign.

Giordano is THE only untouchable player. He should be named the next captain of this team no question. Trade him for Doughty + Schenn + 1st or nothing.

CoRD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2010, 12:48 PM
  #36
Av-merican
@Av_merican
 
Av-merican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Frozen Wasteland
Country: Scotland
Posts: 10,723
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
An organization can't treat players like that and expect to attract players around the league. Toronto, New York, and Edmonton are prime examples. What player is willing to waive their NTC to play in any of those cities, or what Free Agent is willing to play in such cities without being paid a ridiculous salary? And then look at Detroit, which managed to get bargain signings from respected players, and Detroit isn't exactly the city anybody would want to raise a family in. Players know which organizations are classy and which are not. Only prospects are stuck with a given team, hence, only young draft picks have no choice but to play in such cities as Toronto or Edmonton.

Living up to your contract is important from both sides, but burrying players sends a bad message around the league. Buying them out on the other hand is not inhibiting them from playing at the NHL, whereas waiving might inhibit, depending on the contract. Most importantly, buying out a player allows them to be paid for their service, even if the player's service was poor.
All due respect while no one should ignore the possible damage to an organization's reputation when situations like this occur, the fallout in my opinion has proven to be negligible if you look at what happened with other situations. There's no evidence to suggest the McCabe situation did anything to hurt Toronto's ability to attract free agents. Boston has done some unfortunate cap dancing for years and I don't see anyone saying they don't want to play for the Bruins. The only place players have repeatedly said they don't want to play for is Edmonton and that has nothing to do with the Oilers and how they deal with players.

In the cap era, buyouts and burying in the minors is commonplace. And I don't think players necessarily look at the organization and blame them, rather they blame the player for not living up to his deal.

Buyouts should only be an absolute last resort because once it occurs you can't waive it, move it, or bury it. That cap hit and money is on the books for a long, LONG time. Honor be damned, this is a business and no way in hell would I pay Jokinen and Kotalik money to go play for someone else. They haven't earned that. Stajan has, but I would suggest a buyout more on the grounds that burying him in the minors carries way more risk as he'd be claimed by another team on re-entry.

EDIT: I realize now I may have come on a bit strong in that last paragraph there. I don't mean to say the Flames should engage in all sorts of treachery against Jokinen and Kotalik, merely that at this point there are options more preferrable than a buyout, and that players have a short memory. No potential free agent is going to say "Oh hey look how they treated Olli!" and not sign there. When the Flames are ready to contend again they'll have no problem signing players.


Last edited by Av-merican: 12-29-2010 at 01:12 PM.
Av-merican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2010, 12:55 PM
  #37
ddawg1950
Registered User
 
ddawg1950's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,586
vCash: 500
Outsider here who is looking forward to an eventual renewed rivalry with our NW Division cousins.

What I haven't been able to figure out is how, in the last two/three years, Calgary has had such good players under perform so seriously. I mean, sure every team has a guy under performing in any given year, but...nearly everyone...at the same time!

This isn't an Edmonton situation where you had a bunch of guys, who just weren't very good, leading the team to the basement. This is a team who has (had) elite talent at a number of different positions. Iggy, Kipper, Reggie and JayBo just to name a few. On paper, this should be in the playoff race. Rival fans like to makle fun of the Jokinen trade...but they were all hungering after him when Sutter signed him he first time. Same with JayBo. Everyone hoped he'd be heading to Vancouver. Was his contract too much? Well, it's a lot, but it was also the going rate for UFA stud D men.

So, while it's easy to say just blow it up. Or conversely hope for a quick turnaround so you aren't in the embarrassing position of cheering for a dive for five routine. But....

The question I have is: what is the real problem with this team? I'd want that answered before I committed to a course of action that will affect this team's performance for the next 10 years.

ddawg1950 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2010, 01:19 PM
  #38
Stewie Griffin
Moderator
Benevolent Overlord
 
Stewie Griffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Calgary
Posts: 6,738
vCash: 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddawg1950 View Post
The question I have is: what is the real problem with this team? I'd want that answered before I committed to a course of action that will affect this team's performance for the next 10 years.
This is the question everyone's been asking since the 06/07 season. My guess is there is a culture of acceptable mediocrity in the room, specifically in the core group. Whether that was out of complacency (jobs are safe while Sutter is GM) or some other reason, remains to be seen. If it was complacency, you'd have to think there could be immediate on-ice improvement, but I'm not holding my breath...

Stewie Griffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2010, 01:55 PM
  #39
Philoushka
Registered User
 
Philoushka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 340
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewtonsApple View Post
... Erhoff for what? a second rounder? And his level of play is relatively close to Jaybo's.
Hate to focus on one point in your otherwise good assessment, but it appears your valuation of Bouw is too high. The comparison to Ehrhoff isn't on the mark. Suggest that Ehrhoff's level of play isn't "relatively close" to Bouw, it's beyond. Consider that Bouw's placement on the depth chart is *higher* than Ehrhoff's on their respective teams, yet Bouw's production is lower.

Consider today's stats pages for these 2 players:



Bouw's production has got to pick up if he's going to be any kind of asset via trade. $7m for the current pace of production is terrible (basically in Brian Campbell territory in terms of cap hit/production ratio).

Philoushka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2010, 02:54 PM
  #40
FLAMES666
Retrofit not Rebuild
 
FLAMES666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,346
vCash: 50
[QUOTE=MarkGio;29837892]Jokinen has a losing mentality, [QUOTE]

I can't stand it when people say a player has a losing mentality, you actually think a player goes out their to lose every game. Not one player has a losing mentality in the NHL, everyone hates to lose! IF this losing mentality thing existed then every player on the Flames have it, even Iggy .

FLAMES666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2010, 04:13 PM
  #41
flames123
Registered User
 
flames123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kelowna
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,496
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philoushka View Post
Hate to focus on one point in your otherwise good assessment, but it appears your valuation of Bouw is too high. The comparison to Ehrhoff isn't on the mark. Suggest that Ehrhoff's level of play isn't "relatively close" to Bouw, it's beyond. Consider that Bouw's placement on the depth chart is *higher* than Ehrhoff's on their respective teams, yet Bouw's production is lower.

Consider today's stats pages for these 2 players:



Bouw's production has got to pick up if he's going to be any kind of asset via trade. $7m for the current pace of production is terrible (basically in Brian Campbell territory in terms of cap hit/production ratio).
The people on HF never cease to amaze. Bo is underachieving offensively, but defensively he is playing better than anyone else on the team.

Understand people's roles first, then make comparisons. Alright?

flames123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2010, 06:20 PM
  #42
Roadrage
Registered User
 
Roadrage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Next door
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 274
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flames123 View Post
The people on HF never cease to amaze. Bo is underachieving offensively, but defensively he is playing better than anyone else on the team.
Understand people's roles first, then make comparisons. Alright?
What exactly is Boumeester's role then? Is he the Flames #1 D-man or not? He is a minutes muncher and plays the point on the first PP unit doesn't he? He gets paid just under $7 million per season doesn't he? For that kind of money, he better be just as good as Pronger and/or Lidstrom at both ends of the ice.

Roadrage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2010, 06:45 PM
  #43
Philoushka
Registered User
 
Philoushka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 340
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flames123 View Post
The people on HF never cease to amaze. Bo is underachieving offensively, but defensively he is playing better than anyone else on the team.

Understand people's roles first, then make comparisons. Alright?
Indeed! People have no business comparing these 2 defencemen! Their production (2009 and 2010) shows that they're in totally different leagues! One's worth his salary/cap-hit, the other.... not so much at 7m!

I didn't make the initial comparison (suggesting Ehrhoff was 'close' to Bouw). Any suggestion that the comparison isn't apt belongs there. Throw your derision onto the original comparison.

Philoushka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2010, 09:18 PM
  #44
BurnEmUp
Registered User
 
BurnEmUp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 682
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philoushka View Post
Indeed! People have no business comparing these 2 defencemen! Their production (2009 and 2010) shows that they're in totally different leagues! One's worth his salary/cap-hit, the other.... not so much at 7m!

I didn't make the initial comparison (suggesting Ehrhoff was 'close' to Bouw). Any suggestion that the comparison isn't apt belongs there. Throw your derision onto the original comparison.
Over their careers Bouwmeester and Ehrhoff are averaging almost identical point per game numbers!

Yes, over the last two years Ehrhoff has been putting up better numbers, but he's not doing it by himself! The Canucks are the better team right now and Ehrhoff's numbers are reflecting that!

Ehrhoff is worth his salary?! Well, Ehrhoff signed his last contract after putting up 1 goal and 22 points in 77 games with San Jose! He won't be making $3.1 million for very long as he is a UFA after this season and put up a career year last season, and looks to be just as productive this year!

Bouwmeester signed his last contract after putting up 15 goals (two years straight!) and 42 points! Plus he's been among the leaders in minutes played for many years now! Of course his contract is bigger! You are comparing apples to oranges fella!

BurnEmUp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2010, 09:22 PM
  #45
saillias
Registered User
 
saillias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,937
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadrage View Post
What exactly is Boumeester's role then? Is he the Flames #1 D-man or not? He is a minutes muncher and plays the point on the first PP unit doesn't he? He gets paid just under $7 million per season doesn't he? For that kind of money, he better be just as good as Pronger and/or Lidstrom at both ends of the ice.
I've never seen this opinion before. Definitely the first time it's ever been expressed on the internet. Thanks for your input. Unrelated, lets talk about who won the Phaneuf trade.

saillias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2010, 09:39 PM
  #46
Signature
PEEP PEEP PARTY
 
Signature's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Country: Hong Kong
Posts: 4,486
vCash: 50
If I were GM...
Honestly, I hire a better GM to be assistant and step down immediately.

Signature is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2010, 10:17 PM
  #47
Nachoman AlfieSavage*
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eating nachos up top
Posts: 2,245
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philoushka View Post
Indeed! People have no business comparing these 2 defencemen! Their production (2009 and 2010) shows that they're in totally different leagues! One's worth his salary/cap-hit, the other.... not so much at 7m!

I didn't make the initial comparison (suggesting Ehrhoff was 'close' to Bouw). Any suggestion that the comparison isn't apt belongs there. Throw your derision onto the original comparison.
In all fairness i said "relatively close". He isnt having the best year in vancouver, at least in his own zone, and is struggling to some degree defensively. His offence is there, but he plays on one of the best lines in hockey. Jaybo is stronger defensively than him this year, at least for now. His offensive numbers arent there, but unlike the aforementioned dman, he doesnt have the luxury of playing on a +31 team.

Regardless, the point was that a team doesnt need to shell out 7m for a dman unless his name is drew, niklas or duncan. The point was to show that it was a stupid signing. Yet despite that, if we eat some bad cap in return (teams looking to unload dead weight) there should be a market for a guy like jaybo who is still seen as having the potential of #1 dman skill. Injuries near the deadline, a team like columbus decides to push for the playoffs, etc etc. Lots of scenarios i can see him being moved.

Nachoman AlfieSavage* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2010, 10:51 PM
  #48
Up the Irons
Registered User
 
Up the Irons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,932
vCash: 480
Oiler fan. I would say, try to be competitive for the next few years, then total rebuild when your first round picks are actually yours to keep. As for moving Iggy or Kipper, only for the right deal. Trading Iggy for Pittsburg's or Washington's first pick is a waste. Now, Iggy for Semin, or Iggy for Jordan Stahl...

Up the Irons is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2010, 10:55 PM
  #49
WhereIsIt
#gift
 
WhereIsIt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,828
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
Jokinen has a losing mentality, which would have to be avoided at all costs when rebuilding with a young influencal group, hence buying him out assuming he can't be traded. Kopecky is just a one season filler that allows the 2011 draft picks to spend one more year in development. Remember that when an organization is rebuilding, a hockey club needs to develop their own forwards, not acquire other team's development. But it takes proper development, therefore it's important not to push a given draft pick class. Kopecky wasn't suppose to be Jokinen's replacement, but if that's what you gathered, how can you complain because Kopecky is a freeking step up?
Just seems like a strange way of doing things. Obviously you're rebuilding developing players so your not planning on winning that year, but your wasting all that money on a buyout for a player who apparently has a losing mentality... which is ******** by the way, no professional athlete has a losing mentality, that's just ridiculous. Doesn't make any sense. Yeah, sure he's on the losing end a lot. But clearly that doesn't matter with the roster you're icing next year, they're gonna lose anyways. You've got Neimsz, Erixon, and Brodie on your second line... none of those players could even make the team this year!

And I assumed he's Jokinen's replacement because you a) went out of your way to get rid of Jokinen and b) put Kopecky on the first line where Jokinen is now. Not exactly a mind blowing assumption.

Also, I'm sure Kopecky will appreciate being a one-year filler.


Last edited by WhereIsIt: 12-29-2010 at 11:03 PM.
WhereIsIt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2010, 11:07 PM
  #50
Stewie Griffin
Moderator
Benevolent Overlord
 
Stewie Griffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Calgary
Posts: 6,738
vCash: 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustE View Post
Oiler fan. I would say, try to be competitive for the next few years, then total rebuild when your first round picks are actually yours to keep. As for moving Iggy or Kipper, only for the right deal. Trading Iggy for Pittsburg's or Washington's first pick is a waste. Now, Iggy for Semin, or Iggy for Jordan Stahl...
We're missing more first round picks?

Love it when other team's fans come in and solve all of our problems for us. Especially with such insight and thorough research.

Stewie Griffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:39 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.