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Old
12-29-2010, 10:23 AM
  #26
Coldplay
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Waive's Picard's worthless ass, have Weber and PK challenge each other for playing time or scratch Spacek as needed if the other two excel.

I can dream.

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12-29-2010, 10:47 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
In terms of offensive production, yeah it's been a bit disapointing, but his defensive play has been a lot better than it was the last 2 years.
Looking at next year's roster, I think he would be a perfect fit in a #6-7 spot. He is young, doesn't have a big cap hit and has upside to play a bigger role in 2-3 years. With a bit of patience he should eventually be a force on the PP, above average mobility and puckhandler with a bomb from the point. Worst case he becomes a MAB type(but better defensively) at best maybe a Rafalski.
His defensive play!?
You mean like when Blake Comeau blasted by him caught flat footed at the Islanders blue-line to score on that breakaway?

Or do you mean when Chad Larose tied him into a knot on that shorty? Mind you that was Hamrlik's original mistake but still. Play the fricking body man.

While we're on the topic, can someone explain to me what he was doing going after a guy who's already covered on Jay Beagle's goal last night?



Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
He isnt as flashy that's why you, like most, dont see much future with Habs for him...

but based on play alone, he isnt the rook who should be sent down right now.

No, it isn't. Not at all in fact.

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Old
12-29-2010, 10:51 AM
  #28
ClasslessGuy
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Picard --> AHL

Hamrlik Wisniewski
Gorges Spacek
Subban Gill
Weber

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Old
12-29-2010, 10:57 AM
  #29
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What's sad is that we have probably four defensemen now (Weber, Subban, Picard and Spacek) who should all be in the AHL. Weber is OK but still not reliable enough in either end of the ice to be a regular NHLer. Subban looks like he needs to get his head on straight, get out of the Montreal spotlight, and get back to basics. Picard and Spacek are both catastrophes out there, although we all know Spacek's not going anywhere. Maybe we should call up Carle, can't be worse than what we've got going now.

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12-29-2010, 11:11 AM
  #30
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Now maybe the Habs can try Spacek on his natural left side?

Hammer & Spacek LD playing left, paired with Wizzer & PK RD playing right.

I would prolly put PK with Hammer since Hammer can better cover PK's rough edges.

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12-29-2010, 11:22 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
What's sad is that we have probably four defensemen now (Weber, Subban, Picard and Spacek) who should all be in the AHL. Weber is OK but still not reliable enough in either end of the ice to be a regular NHLer. Subban looks like he needs to get his head on straight, get out of the Montreal spotlight, and get back to basics. Picard and Spacek are both catastrophes out there, although we all know Spacek's not going anywhere. Maybe we should call up Carle, can't be worse than what we've got going now.
Subban and Spacek should be in the AHL? Have you watched NHL hockey in the last few years? There are ton of worst d-men than those 2 out there. Spacek has 12 points and is a +5, as much as he looks awkward at times, he's still a reliable NHL d-man and is at least a couple of steps up from guys like Lebda Jurcina Mara Brookbank. Subban tends to play a high risk style but overall his contributions outweight his mistakes and he has nothing left to prove in the AHL, he's mostly a victim of expectations.

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Old
12-29-2010, 11:39 AM
  #32
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I'm no coach or GM, but I could see Subban benefiting from 5-10 games in the AHL, at least for conditioning, in the New Years.

Don't know anything about waivers, etc, but some time leading a team, and remembering what got him where he is could help him out a lot.

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12-29-2010, 12:09 PM
  #33
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Whatever happens I think getting another top-4 defenceman is really going to help our whole defence just because we'll be spreading around the minutes a little more. We won't need to have Hamrlik and Spacek playing 25 minutes every single night.

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12-29-2010, 12:38 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Subban and Spacek should be in the AHL? Have you watched NHL hockey in the last few years? There are ton of worst d-men than those 2 out there. Spacek has 12 points and is a +5, as much as he looks awkward at times, he's still a reliable NHL d-man and is at least a couple of steps up from guys like Lebda Jurcina Mara Brookbank. Subban tends to play a high risk style but overall his contributions outweight his mistakes and he has nothing left to prove in the AHL, he's mostly a victim of expectations.
Haha yeah, have I watched hockey... Spacek is in the running for worst defenseman in the league and Subban has been struggling badly since the 10 game mark of the season. What "valuable contributions" is he making that I'm not seeing? He's not putting up points and he's not playing good defense. Both are hurting our team now, not helping it.

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12-29-2010, 02:01 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Weber to Hamilton, Spacek to the left side, Picard to the press box? Something like:

Hamrlik-Wis
Gill-Gorges
Spacek-Subban

I think Spacek would benefit from being on his natural side and playing some easier minutes. Also makes for a more balanced, road friendly lineup. And Weber should play consistently, if not in the NHL then in the AHL.
i agree with this and having Picard as 7th dmen
but unlike what others on this thread are saying i dont think they should trade weber

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Old
12-29-2010, 02:04 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
Now maybe the Habs can try Spacek on his natural left side?

Hammer & Spacek LD playing left, paired with Wizzer & PK RD playing right.

I would prolly put PK with Hammer since Hammer can better cover PK's rough edges.
actually i agree spacek should be with Wiz and Hammer with PK, theyve played more together too

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Old
12-29-2010, 02:13 PM
  #37
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I would honestly prefer putting Picard instead of Spacek for the time being. Younger, bigger, and slightly faster. Spacek is extremely slow and very weak along the boards, how many times has he gotten caught because of his lack of speed... Not that Picard is much better, but if it doesnt work out then call up Nash or Henry.. add some toughness on our blueline. Or trade for Bieksa

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Old
12-29-2010, 02:22 PM
  #38
Turtleneck Plek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Subban imo just needs to learn to fake shots. He's too predictable. If you still want to do that massive wind up fair enough do it. But more than half the time fake the shot and try to pass, you then catch a forward out of position trying to block your shot because he's so predictable at the moment and you create space and might cause a goal to happen.

Those massive wind ups aren't going to score, the goalie and the entire other team sees him winding up a mile a way. There's a reason lately Weber seems to create more chances. He gets the puck on net faster (I know he isn't that accurate yet but give him time)

If Subban would just learn to fake shots more often then when he would take shots he'd be less predictable and other teams forwards wouldn't be going down immediately to block everything. They'd think twice before doing it. Problem is he does those massive wind ups and always shoots when he does. I've seen numerous odd man rushes happen because of it. He's just got to keep it simple, just because you're at the point doesn't mean you always have to shoot, Subban was always more of an assist guy. He got it not just from shooting but from passing too. If you look at his earlier reels he's always making sick plays and passing. I expected him to project as a 5-10g 30-40a kind of guy if we're lucky. More if he's an absolute superstar.

He has it in him but he's just too predictable and he seems to have lost confidence. If he would shoot faster and fake more shots I'm sure we'd get more chances and he'd turnover the puck far less and give the other team far fewer chances.
Precisely.

What I fail to understand is that PK seems like an intelligent person. He's very emotional as well, but I have no doubts that he has enough self-awareness to understand what he's not doing right out there. Yet, he's still making the same mistakes.

I'm alright with him taking a lot of shots, but he needs to understand that sometimes, a quick wrister or snap shot will probably create a better scoring chance than his patented "touch the sky" one-timer. He needs to mix it up if he wants to have success at this level. It's surprising that he has not made this kind of adjustment since it doesn't seem like this problem is one he had at lower levels of play.

That's what I really find problematic. I'm sure the coaches have told him about his shot and its predictability. Yet, whenever he's out there, you see him with his stick in the air looking like an idiot waiting for a pass. I'm sure the forwards know as well and probably are more reticent to feed him the puck.

Anyhow, as for this thread, I'd send Weber down, bench Picard and go with this lineup:

Hammer-Subban
Spacek-Wiz
Gill-Gorges

Hamrlik has enough experience to mentor PK on the ice and will know to stay back an extra length to cover PK's adventurous plays. Something Picard never does and it always ends up costing us. I understand that Subban cannot leave his position every chance he has, but it would help if Picard would stay back and cover the breakaways.

The Spacek-Wiz pairing might be a bit hazardous in our zone, but I don't think I'd split Gill and Gorges. However, it might be a good idea to try Gorges-Wiz and Spacek-Gill. I feel that the Gorges-Wiz pair could be a pretty good one if need be.

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Old
12-29-2010, 02:36 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Pierre Jr View Post
I think the big problem is that Martin thinks players thrive off of "healthy competition", but in the case of Subban this year, and Price last year, they really don't. Subban was playing pretty confidently until they called up Weber. Since then, he's constantly worrying about making a mistake because he knows he has another young up-and-comer waiting to take his spot every game. Same thing with Price last year--every bad game he had, Halak would come in the next, and he wouldn't know when he might play again. This year he has no competition and he's playing way better because of it.

Imo, if you're going to keep him up here for the year, just let him play and work through his mistakes. Otherwise, just leave him in Hamilton.
Wasn't Weber brought up because Subban wasn't performing up to expectations? Subban was expected to compensate (partially) for the los of Markov as well as to kick start the power play. He succeeded in neither. His talent is obvious but talent alone doesn't get the job done. Not only that, but he's getting into altercations that result in penalties. Price learned from last season. It's time for Subban to learn from this one. The Wisniewski trade suggests that Subban will indeed be sent to Hamilton to get his act together. Oh, it's not just Martin's mindset. Remember, Gainey sent Price back to Hamilton for a few games after he was brought up in his rookie seson.

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Old
12-29-2010, 03:15 PM
  #40
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Haha yeah, have I watched hockey... Spacek is in the running for worst defenseman in the league and Subban has been struggling badly since the 10 game mark of the season. What "valuable contributions" is he making that I'm not seeing? He's not putting up points and he's not playing good defense. Both are hurting our team now, not helping it.
You can't measure a defenseman's contribution to the offense just in points, Subban helps get the puck from our end to the other team's zone either via pass or rush, that in itself helps the offense. Part of the reason our offense has struggled the last 3 weeks is Subban has been benched and he struggled after coming back, plus Hamrlik seems to be wearing down from all the extra responsibility.

For a guy that's in the running for worst d-man in the NHL he has a lot of trust in the Habs coaching staff, they match him against top players, play him PK and PP since Markov was hurt, he is +5 with 12 points. I know he can be frustrating at times, makes the occasional bad decision, but to call him one of the worst NHL d-men is beyond ridiculous.

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Old
12-29-2010, 03:17 PM
  #41
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Wasn't Weber brought up because Subban wasn't performing up to expectations? Subban was expected to compensate (partially) for the los of Markov as well as to kick start the power play. He succeeded in neither. His talent is obvious but talent alone doesn't get the job done. Not only that, but he's getting into altercations that result in penalties. Price learned from last season. It's time for Subban to learn from this one. The Wisniewski trade suggests that Subban will indeed be sent to Hamilton to get his act together. Oh, it's not just Martin's mindset. Remember, Gainey sent Price back to Hamilton for a few games after he was brought up in his rookie seson.
Weber was called up because Markov got hurt and they only had 6 healthy d-men.

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