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Pittsburgh's trade assets

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Old
12-30-2010, 01:09 AM
  #51
Silas Robertson
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How did a thread with the premise of "these guys won't be traded, so what winger could we get with picks/prospects/role players?" turn into this?

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Old
12-30-2010, 02:04 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Is that what I said?
It sure looks like it.

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Old
12-30-2010, 11:20 AM
  #53
JTG
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Originally Posted by bigd View Post
They have plenty of assets.
Yeah, but not ones they are willing, or have the luxury, to move.

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Old
12-30-2010, 01:04 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
So tell me... what do you think you will get for the players not in bold? NOTHING!

If I'm Pittsburgh, I call Jay Feaster and I offer Malkin for Iginla and Conroy. You then move Staal to the second line center spot and Conroy (53%+ on faceoffs) on the third line.
The whole malkin for iggy trade has been tossed around quite a bit lately... personally i like it but obviously not 1 for 1.. i dont see conroy being the extra piece in that trade tho... third line center is letestu rigth now, and he's doing a fine job i think... maybe throw in a 1st and backlund r something...?

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Old
12-30-2010, 01:29 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post

Actually they do.

If you don't believe me, do the exercise yourself. Here's the site:

http://www.dobberhockey.com/frozenpool_compare.php

Actually they don't.

I went to your link as suggested. I compared the last two years Reg/Ploff

Malkin wins 28 categories to 7.

One of those wins from Iginla are that he has been in the league longer..

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Old
12-30-2010, 01:31 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
One of Brunette/Miettinen/Kobasew for a 2nd rounder at the deadline. C'mon...two of those guys are first-liners
And the third one often is the one night a month Richard's brain overrules his Mittens mancrush and moves him off Koivu's wing.

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Old
12-30-2010, 03:02 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LosT_PropheT View Post
Actually they don't.

I went to your link as suggested. I compared the last two years Reg/Ploff

Malkin wins 28 categories to 7.

One of those wins from Iginla are that he has been in the league longer..
That's taking into account that Iggy had an "off year"... But hey, whatever you say. I'm not expecting for everyone (or anyone for that matter) to agree and I'm certainly not trying to change your mind.

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Old
12-30-2010, 03:04 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
So tell me... what do you think you will get for the players not in bold? NOTHING!

If I'm Pittsburgh, I call Jay Feaster and I offer Malkin for Iginla and Conroy. You then move Staal to the second line center spot and Conroy (53%+ on faceoffs) on the third line.
Iginla/Conroy for Malkin is absolutely BRUTAL. Not even close to fair for the Penguins

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Old
12-30-2010, 03:24 PM
  #59
AK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
So tell me... what do you think you will get for the players not in bold? NOTHING!

If I'm Pittsburgh, I call Jay Feaster and I offer Malkin for Iginla and Conroy. You then move Staal to the second line center spot and Conroy (53%+ on faceoffs) on the third line.
I'm not sure if this is an attempt to be funny or not. I would be hard pressed to take Iginla at his current cap hit, age, and years remaining for free, much less would I trade one of the best players on the planet for him.

Iginla's had a great career, but he's well into his decline and is no longer a bona-fide star. He's making too much money and isn't going to improve. There are better options.

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Old
12-30-2010, 04:57 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Is that what I said?
Are you going to address my point about how adding Conroy to the package also does nothing for the Pens, since their current #3 center has a superior faceoff percentage (which you seem to think Conroy would be a bonus for the Pens) than him AND has superior offensive numbers?

I mean, since you're already justifying the first part of the dumb proposal you made, you might as well also tackle throwing in Conroy, as if that would be the deal clincher.

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Old
12-30-2010, 05:21 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
That's taking into account that Iggy had an "off year"... But hey, whatever you say. I'm not expecting for everyone (or anyone for that matter) to agree and I'm certainly not trying to change your mind.
So did Malkin. The difference, of course, is that Malkin's off year still had him on pace for 25 more points than Iggy, something you happilly gloss over.

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Old
12-30-2010, 05:34 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
That's taking into account that Iggy had an "off year"... But hey, whatever you say. I'm not expecting for everyone (or anyone for that matter) to agree and I'm certainly not trying to change your mind.
If the Pens were to seriously consider moving Malkin, they would get offers of younger players with smaller cap hits than Iginla that could put up similar or better numbers than Iginla.

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Old
12-30-2010, 06:05 PM
  #63
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Malkin for Iginla and Conroy is easily one of the most pathetic and one sided offers I have ever read on HFboards, and I have been on here a long time...

Conroy is AHL fodder at this point in time and I am surprised to see him take a regular shift even on a team as bad as Calgary. Iginla although still a very good player (at his cap hit) like someone indicated earlier would be hard to justify taking him for free.

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Old
12-30-2010, 11:17 PM
  #64
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I would like Goligoski for something like a 1st and a 3rd.

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Old
12-31-2010, 12:23 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPavs8Clutchy View Post
I would like Goligoski for something like a 1st and a 3rd.
People pray that late 1sts turn into top 30 offensive defensemen.

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Old
12-31-2010, 12:39 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
What does that change really, as both guys' contracts are long term? I'm basing this on the fact that the Pens would trade from a position of strength (center) to fill a huge hole in their line-up. Seeing Crosby playing with 3-4th line wingers game in, game out, I can only imagine him with a true all-star winger, as we've seen at the Olympics.

It could also be a package including Staal and something else for Iginla, but then the Pens would have to dig into their depth.
But hey as a Habs' fan, I'd rather them not do that trade anyway as they'd be scary to play against.

Still though, the point was that with the guys not in bold in the OP, the Pens can't expect anything good in return. You have to give in order to receive.
The package would be Iginla and something, not Staal and something. You really overvalue Iggy. He's a good player... but he's no spring chicken.

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Old
01-08-2011, 10:27 AM
  #67
bernmeister
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Originally Posted by The Wheeled Winger View Post
Having seen some (insert our winger is available) here threads and pondering the possibility of Pitt in some of them, it occurred to me I'm not really certain of Pittsburgh's tradeable assets or who would want them. Let's get some obvious things out of the way first.

Going nowhere:

Crosby
Malkin
Fleury
Letang
Staal


Very likely going nowhere:

Orpik
Martin
Kunitz (only true top 6 winger)
Michalek (recent FA signing)

Core (unavailable except for obvious upgrade and/or players worth more to Pitt on roster than in trade):

Goligoski
Cooke
Kennedy
Engelland (Pitt fans seem big on this guy, I don't blame 'em)
Letestu


Useful depth (guys who work and have no need to move out save for an upgrade):

Asham
Rupp
Talbot
Dupuis

And the spares:

Johnson
Lovejoy
Adams
Godard
Comrie


The first thing that's notable is that as a team with very functional chemistry and a good record, there are very few guys to be considered spare parts on this team. This means any trades from the roster are either going to come from the limited spares, or have to upgrade a piece that's moving out. Part of the challenge in this is finding a team that, for some reason, wants to downgrade (likely either salary downgrade, salary length issue, or age issue).

It also seems to me that with such a young core, picks and prospects (save top 6 wing and perhaps certain types of D prospects) are readily available. However, I'm not incredibly familiar with the Penguins org depth.

Some input from Penguins (or Pens knowledgeable) fans would be appreciated in regards to the accuracy of my list, in addition to some ideas on what sort of trade Pittsburgh might look for. Are they, for example, willing to move Gogo for an bonafide top 6 winger, or are they too content with his chemistry and role to risk disrupting the team by moving him? Would the Pens move some of their best depth wingers (such as Cooke, Kennedy, Letestu) for a top 6 worthy upgrade, or again, would they prefer to trade lesser players + future assets to keep chemistry intact?

The bolded players are the ones I figure are here to stay with the Penguins this season excepting unusual circumstances.

Applaud this effort, and generally agree it is constructive as to understanding how apparently Pens fans regard the value of their present roster.

Only emphasized disclaimer I would make is that these assumptions are relative; that is, enough overpayment turning into enough massive overpayment, and any player can be had in theory.

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Old
01-08-2011, 10:34 AM
  #68
bernmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Model T View Post
Every team's board should compile a list like this so that we get fewer trade proposals based on misunderstandings of what other team's needs are and how important different players are to the teams. The only problem would be getting them to put reasonable valuations on guys, but this one looks pretty reasonable so maybe it wouldn't be impossible.

A guy can dream, right?
Bold: I agree with your constructive comment.
Underline: Consensus with a large enough body of opinion will LIKELY help establish reasonable values, although there are exceptions to most rules including this.

For example, for the last year +, everybody wanted to show Gilroy the bum's rush for NYR. I was one of a few who said, yeah, he's available, but not so fast, let's not overestimate or underestimate this guy.

My point is any team can have a Gilroy, and so even a consensus driven conclusion can be flawed.

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Old
01-08-2011, 10:40 AM
  #69
bernmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
So tell me... what do you think you will get for the players not in bold? NOTHING!

If I'm Pittsburgh, I call Jay Feaster and I offer Malkin for Iginla and Conroy. You then move Staal to the second line center spot and Conroy (53%+ on faceoffs) on the third line.
Not to be piling on, and not to minimize Conroy, but these is basically a 1 for 1 and it is less than ballpark as to equal value.

Iggy is still a good player, and has been a great player, is much older, and not a huge saving $$$ wise.

Malkin is not merely elite but uber-elite, with even better stats.

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Old
01-08-2011, 11:14 AM
  #70
Mrs Crosby's Dryer
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So then based on some of the more realistic people in this threads estimation, what kind of return could a package of Goligoski & Jeffrey fetch at the deadline?

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