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IIHF World Championship Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Please don't blame soccer, why is hockey falling off the map in Czech and Slovakia?

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Old
12-30-2010, 02:09 AM
  #26
WJG
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The Czech Republic is still up there with Canada, USA, Russia, Sweden and Finland IMO (Finland and Czech Republic being slightly behind the rest).

Slovakia is a different story. I'd say their in a lower tier with countries like Switzerland and maybe Germany.

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Old
12-30-2010, 02:15 AM
  #27
Shaman464
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Soccer

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Old
12-30-2010, 02:16 AM
  #28
v-man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada4Gold View Post
Not true, look at what is happening with Slovakia, for a while there they had good quality players in their prime, however with those players declining they need to produce more players to take their place and they haven't been doing so, and it resulted in their bad performance in last years Wc and it will continue to happen until they produce young players.

The same will eventually happen to the Czechs(and everyone else) if they can't produce young talent, they isn't anywhere near as great of a turnover rate for the Wc than the WJC but eventually players do get old and retire and they need to be replaced
These countries rightfully don't look to the WJC as an indicator of where they're at. No one is going to have the depth of Canada and the States. They don't have the population for that. Most teams will have off years in a tournament that is made up of essentially one birth year. They're still producing top talent, just not at the pace where you'll see it every year at this tournament. You have to remember that the initial influx of top Euros was so rampant because most of them were stars at home for years before heading to North America. They weren't all from one magical birth year or program. That, along with the fact that many Europeans prefer the Euro style game and stay home are the reason we're not seeing such an abundance of Czechs and Slovaks in the NHL. But just the fact that the Czechs could win last years WC without many NHL stars proves that it's at a better place than most think. Slovakia is falling to where it will soon be at the Swiss/Denmark/Latvia level if nothing changes, but that's also attributed to those later teams programs improving.

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Old
12-30-2010, 02:20 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaman464 View Post
Soccer
Well thats not true either as the Czech national team was much better 10-15 years ago.

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Old
12-30-2010, 02:23 AM
  #30
zorz
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Originally Posted by Maelmoor View Post
Well thats not true either as the Czech national team was much better 10-15 years ago.
then it must be speed skating

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Old
12-30-2010, 02:27 AM
  #31
Hemskyfanboy83
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People need to remember that to have a strong senior team, all you really need is to produce 2-3 real good players every year. That does not translate into junior success but will allow them to always be competitive on the senior stage.

The concerning thing is that both countries have not really been producing any real good prospects lately. Off the top of my head Voracek is the last one. The Czechs seem to have 2 more top 10 talents coming up in Musil and Frk so that is good. Slovakia will need some long shots to devlop.

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Old
12-30-2010, 02:30 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemskyfanboy83 View Post
The Czechs seem to have 2 more top 10 talents coming up in Musil and Frk so that is good. Slovakia will need some long shots to devlop.
I certainly think Jaškin has a lot of potential as well

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Old
12-30-2010, 02:41 AM
  #33
nik jr
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Originally Posted by The Lollipop King View Post
They were powerhouses once?
czechoslovakia was clearly the 3rd best country for a few decades. sometimes beat the soviet union.

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Old
12-30-2010, 03:01 AM
  #34
Zach and Slater
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Originally Posted by Finnish your Czech View Post
so in the not so distant future:

1. Canada-USA (tie)
3. Russia-Sweden (tie)
5. Finland
6. Switzerland
7. Czech
8. Slovakia
9. Germany
EDIT: 10. Denmark
11. Norway

how does that sound?
Well I'm going to sound like a big homer here but I would have Canada clear cut 1. I know the US is closing the gap and all but let's get real. Canada is still producing higher end talent. It's just my opinion, don't get me wrong it's great for the game if they are equal and we really need a superstar American born kid to emerge. Some are close (Kane, Parise, Ryan), but nobody on the level of an Ovechkin or Stamkos (of course nobody is close to Sid right now).

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Old
12-30-2010, 03:04 AM
  #35
finchster
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Does anyone remember not too long ago Sweden was not a medal threat at the WJC? There were questions about Sweden’s development system during that time as well. For most nations there is a up and down period when it comes to player development, right now Sweden is in almost a new golden age of player development, the Czechs and the Slovaks are in a down period.

I am not so worried about the Czechs they will come out just fine, but Slovakia has bigger problems with player development.

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Old
12-30-2010, 03:18 AM
  #36
Mr Kanadensisk
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Originally Posted by EbencoyE View Post
Pretty sure the Czechs just won the World Championship... how is hockey falling off the map there?

Junior hockey has no impact on the regular hockey world. Everyone knows only Canada cares about junior hockey. And the U.S. is good because they have such a large population and a ton of money.
I'm talking about the future and keep in mind that it in an Olympic year the WC is even more watered down than most years.

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Old
12-30-2010, 03:21 AM
  #37
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How is it off the map, Slovakia just finished 4th at the Olympics. That's one of their all time best finishes.



Obviously the Worlds Juniors isn't completely indicative of how well a country's hockey interest is doing. Nations are always bound to have weak years come along every now and then, but Czechoslovakia is still producing top end NHL talent at a consistent basis.

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Old
12-30-2010, 03:23 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lollipop King View Post
They were powerhouses once?
Are you THAT young?


They won the U-20 in 2001... They also won the Olympic with Jagr and Hasek.

Come on, the Czech were a better team than the USA and Swedes for several years.

In 2001 they had a strong U-20 Team.

Tomas Plekanec
Radim Vrbata
Pavel Brendl
Martin Erat
Vaclav Nedorost
Rotislav Kesla


Zdeněk Blatný, Brendl, Nedorost and Klesla owned the tourney back then.

So yeah, they were a powerhouse in hockey between 98-02


Last edited by KristoLeblanc*: 12-30-2010 at 03:30 AM.
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Old
12-30-2010, 03:26 AM
  #39
slovakiasnextone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zorz View Post
then it must be speed skating
Gee, are you gonna blame everything on poor Martina Sáblíková?

In that case can we use these guys as an excuse?


Anyway, since we´re not allowed to blame soccer, maybe I can blame it all on team handball, eh?

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Old
12-30-2010, 03:28 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KristoLeblanc View Post
Are you THAT young?


They won the U-20 in 2001... They also won the Olympic with Jagr and Hasek.

Come on, the Czech were a better team than the USA and Swedes for several years.
During those years everybody here in Czech Rep. (don't know about other countries) even felt like USA is the worst of top6 and I think they weren't favourites to win medals at that time.

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Old
12-30-2010, 03:44 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slovakiasnextone View Post
Gee, are you gonna blame everything on poor Martina Sáblíková?

In that case can we use these guys as an excuse?


Anyway, since we´re not allowed to blame soccer, maybe I can blame it all on team handball, eh?
Yeah it's her fault. Some kids who could be good hockey players may now just skate around like nuts, she's a cancer

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Old
12-30-2010, 03:46 AM
  #42
slovakiasnextone
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Originally Posted by zorz View Post
Yeah it's her fault. Some kids who could be good hockey players may now just skate around like nuts, she's a cancer
Ahh, don´t worry about them kids, maybe we can make a well hearted gesture and adopt them to our hockey teams, it´s not like half of the players on them do anything but skating around like nuts.

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Old
12-30-2010, 04:13 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrForever View Post
How is it off the map, Slovakia just finished 4th at the Olympics. That's one of their all time best finishes.
And dont forget the bronze, silver and gold on WCH ...

Slovakia was never a power horse in the U20 or U18 category... from time to time, we won some games, some realy important games, but it was a fluke... but i think, in a few years it will be a little bit better than now. the 1995 class and lower seems pretty good. But dont wait gold from U18 ort U20 WCH. Senior team is the main targer for they development...

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Old
12-30-2010, 04:38 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post
Aside from developing a few elite talents (Hasek, Jagr, Chara, Hossa) the counties have never been that special
Peter Stastny was just as good as jagr if not better so he belongs on any list when going over their greats. Czechoslovakia has always been strong and would still be strong if it was one country.

But the OP's main point still stands. The new generation hasn't come close to filling the shoes for the older guys.

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Old
12-30-2010, 04:58 AM
  #45
slovakiasnextone
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It´s kind of hard when it takes 2 years for the same amount of kids that Canada or the US have playing hockey just to be born over here.

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Old
12-30-2010, 04:59 AM
  #46
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bad winters?

The last two winters in Sweden has been amazing, little kids are skateing outside and playing hockey outdoors. Even in south Sweden.
In a couple of years we will se an effect of the cold winters, not because that playing outside makes players of kids but the interrest in hockey is going up

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Old
12-30-2010, 05:56 AM
  #47
Muuri
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Why should`t soccer be blamed? It`s oblivously one of the reasons, atleast for Slovakia. Game that`s easier and cheaper to play.

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Old
12-30-2010, 06:00 AM
  #48
slovakiasnextone
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Why should`t soccer be blamed? It`s oblivously one of the reasons, atleast for Slovakia. Game that`s easier and cheaper to play.
Not necessarily. Just because we sucked, it doesn´t mean that just as many kids didn´t play soccer before.

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Old
12-30-2010, 06:13 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slovakiasnextone View Post
Not necessarily. Just because we sucked, it doesn´t mean that just as many kids didn´t play soccer before.
Football (I prefer to call it that:-) is a major sport in CZE as well and is certainly luring away kids from hockey. And in the last couple of years we have to count in floorball as well which is currently on the rise in CZE and the national team certainly has good results (bronze from last WC).

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Old
12-30-2010, 06:14 AM
  #50
Lui One Hall
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I guess, the communist system and hockey program was great for Czechoslovakian, Russian hockey.

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