HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Rebuilding our defense

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-30-2010, 06:45 PM
  #26
HCH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Wild West
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,076
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
What is very risky is gambling on certain UFA's being on the market and at a reasonable price. What has happened in the last few years is we have seen a lot of the top UFA's either get extended with their current team or moved in June for picks and signed elswhere(like Bouwmeester).

I would definitely not shut the door on Yemelin, but if we were able to sign him and bring him over, I would plan on him being #7, anothing more would be risky given that he will need time to adjust. If he signs for another 2 years KHL we probably never see him.
That's why it would be good to have Spacek and/or Hamrlik around for next year as an insurance policy in case Emelin floundered. Of course, if he did make a couple of mistakes, Martin would banish him to the press box.

HCH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-30-2010, 07:16 PM
  #27
RNiner
Registered User
 
RNiner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 333
vCash: 500
As much as I like these kind of threads, we are at a point right now where there are about 20 questions that need to be answered before we make any choices, and none have been answered.

1) What's Markov's knee like? Is he a #5 now for his career, or is a rebuilt knee going to give us another 5 years of #1 play?

2) Is Emelin coming over?

3) Is Wiz going to be a solid top 4 for us? (Its only been a period so far, but I like what I see!)

4) Can we afford to bury Spacegoat in the AHL/trade him/have someone hit-and-run his knee/convince him to play in Europe?

5) Is Weber worth keeping as our 6th guy, or do we decide he's best as trade bait/#7 backup/career AHL'er?

6) Is Hammer worth bringing back?


All of these questions (and many more) will have much clearer answers come the playoffs and June decision period. I bet if we look back on this thread in June we'll see how off we all were. Alot of these UFA's will have been re-signed, alot of players will be playing different, etc. We got Wiz, we have Picard sitting (yay!) now lets see what we have for a couple months before we make any big decisions.

RNiner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-30-2010, 07:35 PM
  #28
compile
Give me Scotch!
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Vaughan, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,020
vCash: 693
Send a message via Skype™ to compile
Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH View Post
That's it, maintain that positive attitude!

Six of those Russian defensemen had already played in the NHL. The stacked rosters of the Olympics along with a very compressed schedule make an evaluation of their ability to play in the NHL very difficult. I don't know what you think but there was a guy named Andrei Markov on that team that certainly has NHL abilities.

You are also judging Emelin's play based on an Olympic series that he never played in. I don't know about you but I find it difficult to judge a player's abilities by looking at everyone but him. As for time in the minors, you are making an assumption based on... I don't know, what is it based on?

Finally, I do not know what motivates Emelin. Is it purely money, it is the comfort of staying close to home, is it the opportunity to play against the best in the world, is it an opportunity to experience a different lifestyle, or ?? I did say it was a "Big IF".

I don't know why anyone would completely dismiss an opportunity without exploring the possibilities. It doesn't cost anything. What's the harm in checking it out?
He can't play in the KHL at all. Every other hit he throws he gets called for a penalty. He's to rough for that league which is filled with primadonnas. Plus the KHL owners have a tendency of not paying because they have no money.

I have a feeling he'll jump ship and be in the lineup in 2011 by November.

P.S His name is spelt YEMELIN. Its pronounced EMELIN.

__________________
Originally Posted by Jeffonfire
There's no ghosts... only god exists. Luckily, he is our netminder.
Originall Posted by hockeyfan2k11
Winning is not the #1 thing. They want to win THEIR way.....even if it means they're handicapping themselves.
compile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-30-2010, 08:02 PM
  #29
HCH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Wild West
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,076
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
He can't play in the KHL at all. Every other hit he throws he gets called for a penalty. He's to rough for that league which is filled with primadonnas. Plus the KHL owners have a tendency of not paying because they have no money.

I have a feeling he'll jump ship and be in the lineup in 2011 by November.

P.S His name is spelt YEMELIN. Its pronounced EMELIN.
Actually either spelling is a translation from another alphabet... just like the city of Yekaterinburg which is sometime also called Ekaterinaburg. I really don't care which way it's spelled, I would like to see him compete for a position on the Habs blueline. There is no way he can be slower than Gill, Spacek or Hamrlik.

HCH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-30-2010, 08:05 PM
  #30
compile
Give me Scotch!
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Vaughan, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,020
vCash: 693
Send a message via Skype™ to compile
Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH View Post
Actually either spelling is a translation from another alphabet... just like the city of Yekaterinburg which is sometime also called Ekaterinaburg. I really don't care which way it's spelled, I would like to see him compete for a position on the Habs blueline. There is no way he can be slower than Gill, Spacek or Hamrlik.
Who even said he was slow???

The questions surrounding Yemmy is if he's coming the the NHL. Not his talent.

PS. He hits like Vladimir Konstantinov if anyone remembers him
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO1uhorF5LA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kui2xsKW11Q

compile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2010, 08:02 AM
  #31
crazyd
Canada is hockey
 
crazyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,146
vCash: 500
If it is safe to assume that:

Hamrlik >>> Gill

Then I would resign Hamrlik for 1 to 2 years with a decent cap hit.

Lessen the minutes for him, play him against lower lines to be more effective and mentor Subban, Weber, Tinordi (if ever in NHL by that time - unlikely).

So...

Markov (Extnd Contract 1 yr) - Wisnewski (4M because of Qc taxes)
Gorges (3M) - Subban (0.8)
Hamrlik (3M) - Weber (0.8)
Picard

I really think Gorges can be the stay-at-home defenseman to pair with Subban. Gorges can take big minutes and is effective.

Now if we want more physicality, let's go and get Bieksa.

Markov - Wiz
Bieksa - Subban
Hamrlik - Gorges

Picard

Now for Picard I have mixed feelings, because if I was GM I would want a more physical specimen. Neither of Weber or Carle merit 7D minutes as they fit more on bottom pairing D.

As for Spacek, the CBA is somewhat confusing:

* When a player aged 35 or older signs a multi-year contract, his average salary is counted against the team's salary cap during every year of the contract, even if the player retires before the contract is up.
* If the player is sent to the minor leagues, his cap hit is reduced by $100,000.
* For players 26 or older, a buyout costs two-thirds of remaining contract value.
* On a buyout, the team takes a cap hit for a percentage of the buyout value (according to a very complex formula) spread over twice the length of the remaining contract years.

To bury Spacek in the minors isn't an option. It would be "bad politics" for management to act in such a way. And saving 100k - unless cap stricken - is not a worthy argument.

If we buy him out then we get hit with: 1.27M per for 2 years.

This hit is really in fact only 0.77M because we already support 0.5M because of BGL buyout.

crazyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2010, 08:13 AM
  #32
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 33,738
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain G View Post
I dont think you can, he has a 35+ contract.

Markov - Wiz
Erhoff - Bieksa
Spacek - Subban

We'd have 3 righties that can hit, that would be pretty nice.
I thought you could buy out 35+ contracts but not bury them in the minors or Europe(like Redden Souray Huet etc)?

Not sure if we have the cap room to extend Markov and Wiz plus sign 2 UFA's like Erhoff and Bieksa. Plus those last two may never hit the UFA market.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2010, 08:16 AM
  #33
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 33,738
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
Hey why not play O'Byrne? Oh wait Montreal gave him away for nothing and he now one of his teams leaders in plus minus and minutes played.......


I always said all O'Byrne needed was a fair shot! Jaques MArtin sucks bags!
O'byrne and Latendresse were very poorly handled by Martin IMHO. Both guys bring elements that we desperately need...a young bruising d-man and a power forward.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2010, 08:19 AM
  #34
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 33,738
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RNiner View Post
As much as I like these kind of threads, we are at a point right now where there are about 20 questions that need to be answered before we make any choices, and none have been answered.

1) What's Markov's knee like? Is he a #5 now for his career, or is a rebuilt knee going to give us another 5 years of #1 play?

2) Is Emelin coming over?

3) Is Wiz going to be a solid top 4 for us? (Its only been a period so far, but I like what I see!)

4) Can we afford to bury Spacegoat in the AHL/trade him/have someone hit-and-run his knee/convince him to play in Europe?

5) Is Weber worth keeping as our 6th guy, or do we decide he's best as trade bait/#7 backup/career AHL'er?

6) Is Hammer worth bringing back?


All of these questions (and many more) will have much clearer answers come the playoffs and June decision period. I bet if we look back on this thread in June we'll see how off we all were. Alot of these UFA's will have been re-signed, alot of players will be playing different, etc. We got Wiz, we have Picard sitting (yay!) now lets see what we have for a couple months before we make any big decisions.
Spacek can't be sent to the minors or Europe as a means of getting his salary off the books. His cap hit would just go from 3.8 to 3.7 mil. Too bad he wasn't signed to a 1 or 2 year deal instead of 3.

The "35-and-Older" Clause:

•When a player aged 35 or older signs a multi-year contract, his average salary is counted against the team's salary cap during every year of the contract, even if the player retires before the contract is up.
•If the player is sent to the minor leagues, his cap hit is reduced by $100,000.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2010, 08:21 AM
  #35
compile
Give me Scotch!
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Vaughan, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,020
vCash: 693
Send a message via Skype™ to compile
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
O'byrne and Latendresse were very poorly handled by Martin IMHO. Both guys bring elements that we desperately need...a young bruising d-man and a power forward.
O'Byrne is not a good dman. All he has is size.
I'm glad he's not playing for the Habs anymore. I'd cringe everytime he was on the ice.

compile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2010, 08:22 AM
  #36
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 33,738
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarto View Post
If it is safe to assume that:

Hamrlik >>> Gill

Then I would resign Hamrlik for 1 to 2 years with a decent cap hit.

Lessen the minutes for him, play him against lower lines to be more effective and mentor Subban, Weber, Tinordi (if ever in NHL by that time - unlikely).

So...

Markov (Extnd Contract 1 yr) - Wisnewski (4M because of Qc taxes)
Gorges (3M) - Subban (0.8)
Hamrlik (3M) - Weber (0.8)
Picard

I really think Gorges can be the stay-at-home defenseman to pair with Subban. Gorges can take big minutes and is effective.

Now if we want more physicality, let's go and get Bieksa.

Markov - Wiz
Bieksa - Subban
Hamrlik - Gorges

Picard

Now for Picard I have mixed feelings, because if I was GM I would want a more physical specimen. Neither of Weber or Carle merit 7D minutes as they fit more on bottom pairing D.

As for Spacek, the CBA is somewhat confusing:

* When a player aged 35 or older signs a multi-year contract, his average salary is counted against the team's salary cap during every year of the contract, even if the player retires before the contract is up.
* If the player is sent to the minor leagues, his cap hit is reduced by $100,000.
* For players 26 or older, a buyout costs two-thirds of remaining contract value.
* On a buyout, the team takes a cap hit for a percentage of the buyout value (according to a very complex formula) spread over twice the length of the remaining contract years.

To bury Spacek in the minors isn't an option. It would be "bad politics" for management to act in such a way. And saving 100k - unless cap stricken - is not a worthy argument.

If we buy him out then we get hit with: 1.27M per for 2 years.

This hit is really in fact only 0.77M because we already support 0.5M because of BGL buyout.
BGL's buyout is still 0.5 mil for 2011-2012 so if we were to buy out Spacek we'd have 1.77 mil of dead cap room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
O'Byrne is not a good dman. All he has is size.
I'm glad he's not playing for the Habs anymore. I'd cringe everytime he was on the ice.
Yup a real pylon...+10 and a ton of hits and blocked shots in 23 games.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2010, 08:25 AM
  #37
The Kremelin Wall*
the krEMELIN wall
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,769
vCash: 500
What type of game does Yemelin play? I keep hearing about him but I don't think I've ever seen him play/youtube highlights.

The Kremelin Wall* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2010, 08:29 AM
  #38
crazyd
Canada is hockey
 
crazyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,146
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
BGL's buyout is still 0.5 mil for 2011-2012 so if we were to buy out Spacek we'd have 1.77 mil of dead cap room.
Unfortunate, because at that price you can have a decent 4th liner. Still, considering the Maxwell's, Whites's and other options in Hamilton, I would still buyout Spacek.

Unless we can trade him to a contender before the trade freeze. We just need to manage with Spacek's limited NTC.

crazyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2010, 09:04 AM
  #39
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 33,738
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattKOTW View Post
What type of game does Yemelin play? I keep hearing about him but I don't think I've ever seen him play/youtube highlights.
He plays sort of like a poor man's Regehr, plays a mean physical game but has good mobility and a first pass. Listed at 6'1" 222lbs...he beat the crap out of Svitov in a fight.

http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/12662

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2010, 09:07 AM
  #40
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,254
vCash: 800
The most scary thing with this team is who's going to want to sign with us? Seems the only player that would want that are overglorified ( small 3 ) players that we'll have to overpaid , exactly like we did.Better draft well in the next couple of years to not make the same mistake in 5 years when this nightmare ends.

BenchBrawl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2010, 09:07 AM
  #41
HCH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Wild West
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,076
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
Who even said he was slow???

The questions surrounding Yemmy is if he's coming the the NHL. Not his talent.

PS. He hits like Vladimir Konstantinov if anyone remembers him
Ummm.. habsfaninvictoria alluded to the slowness of the Russian defence

HCH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2010, 09:07 AM
  #42
hickles46
Registered User
 
hickles46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Country: England
Posts: 300
vCash: 500
This wouldn't be an issue we were scoring goals, and wasn't an issue earlier this season when we were winning.

hickles46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2010, 09:09 AM
  #43
HCH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Wild West
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,076
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
He plays sort of like a poor man's Regehr, plays a mean physical game but has good mobility and a first pass. Listed at 6'1" 222lbs...he beat the crap out of Svitov in a fight.

http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/12662
I think Svitov actually beat him pretty badly in fight they had... but Emelin did destroy another guy, I can't remember who, with a single punch as he was laying on the ice and the guy was standing over him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hickles46 View Post
This wouldn't be an issue we were scoring goals, and wasn't an issue earlier this season when we were winning.
Of course, nothing would be an issue if we were winning... but we aren't, so you have to start looking at why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarto View Post
Unfortunate, because at that price you can have a decent 4th liner. Still, considering the Maxwell's, Whites's and other options in Hamilton, I would still buyout Spacek.

Unless we can trade him to a contender before the trade freeze. We just need to manage with Spacek's limited NTC.
I don't know how many times it has been written, but I will write it again. We CAN"T buy out Spacek and we can't get cap relief by sending him to the minors, or Russia or anywhere else. He is on an +35 contract.

HCH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2010, 09:23 AM
  #44
hickles46
Registered User
 
hickles46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Country: England
Posts: 300
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH View Post
Of course, nothing would be an issue if we were winning... but we aren't, so you have to start looking at why.
It's a slump, all teams go through them in all sports every year... However, you can't win a hockey game without scoring goals...

hickles46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2010, 09:28 AM
  #45
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 33,738
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
The most scary thing with this team is who's going to want to sign with us? Seems the only player that would want that are overglorified ( small 3 ) players that we'll have to overpaid , exactly like we did.Better draft well in the next couple of years to not make the same mistake in 5 years when this nightmare ends.
Every team overpays for UFA's just look at Toronto's roster and half the Rangers team. That's why I'm not a fan of putting all your eggs in the UFA basket, the last few years we are seeing more and more big UFA's extended or traded before July 1st so teams can get assets(picks or young players) back.

I think planning to let all our UFA d-men walk and signing 2 or 3 of Kaberle Erhoff Bieksa McCabe or Pitkanen is a pipe dream. Half those guys probably never hit UFA and the others might end up overpaid.

Depending on how things play out up until June 15th, I wouldn't be opposed to having 6-7 mil available to make a run at Pitkanen Erhoff or Kaberle. If you can't get one of those guys for a reasonable price then maybe McCabe or Bieksa as plan B(though McCabe would have to be very short term).

I don't want to get to July 1st with no answer on Markov(health, extension?), Yemelin(signing or staying KHL), Hamrlik(extension?), Wiz(extension?), Spacek(trade? keep? buyout?)and Gill(extension?) and only 1 top 4 spot filled.

In my dream world we start next year with Markov(healthy, 4.5-1 year)-Wiz(4 years 3.75) Pitkanen(4 years 4.75)-Hamrlik(1 year 3.6) Gorges(3 years 1.8)-Subban(950k)-Yemelin(3 years 2.5)-Weber(900k)

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2010, 09:29 AM
  #46
expy
Registered User
 
expy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 962
vCash: 500
Before we bring too many "new" faces in here, we gotta get rid of JM before he affects any other players, it's disgusting how he's handled Subban so far.

expy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2010, 09:41 AM
  #47
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 33,738
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH View Post
I don't know how many times it has been written, but I will write it again. We CAN"T buy out Spacek and we can't get cap relief by sending him to the minors, or Russia or anywhere else. He is on an +35 contract.
I thought 35+ you could still buy out the player?

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2010, 09:53 AM
  #48
crazyd
Canada is hockey
 
crazyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,146
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH View Post
I don't know how many times it has been written, but I will write it again. We CAN"T buy out Spacek and we can't get cap relief by sending him to the minors, or Russia or anywhere else. He is on an +35 contract.
Excerpt from the CBA:

[35+ Clause]
* When a player aged 35 or older signs a multi-year contract, his average salary is counted against the team's salary cap during every year of the contract, even if the player retires before the contract is up.
* If the player is sent to the minor leagues, his cap hit is reduced by $100,000.

[Buyout Clause]
* For players 26 or older, a buyout costs two-thirds of remaining contract value.
* On a buyout, the team takes a cap hit for a percentage of the buyout value (according to a very complex formula) spread over twice the length of the remaining contract years.

Where does it say that the 35+ clause supersedes the Buyout Clause?

And wasn't Rolston sent to the minors? Isn't he on a 35+ contract also?

crazyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2010, 10:10 AM
  #49
Poulet Kostopoulos
Registered User
 
Poulet Kostopoulos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,852
vCash: 500
Reason and logic tell me Habs must re-sign Markov but frustration with his fragility tells me Habs should look somewhere else.

Poulet Kostopoulos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-31-2010, 11:06 AM
  #50
Frozenice
the random dude
 
Frozenice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,007
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarto View Post
Where does it say that the 35+ clause supersedes the Buyout Clause?

And wasn't Rolston sent to the minors? Isn't he on a 35+ contract also?
The 35+ clause doesn't affect the buyout clause. What it does is not allow teams to reduce the cap hit of players that are bought out (which are 2 separate things).

If I understand the Rolston situation (I don't follow NJ) but I think is that they also brought him back on re-entry waivers (which if a team claimed him the salary and cap hit would be divided equally between the two teams) - which is what we should be looking at doing for Spacek at the end of this season.

Frozenice is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:26 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.