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2010-2011 Rangers Prospects Thread (Juniors, NCAA, International, Other) *Part 3*

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01-16-2011, 10:00 PM
  #326
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Jason Wilson with 13 points in his last 11 games. 22 in 38 for the season.

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01-16-2011, 10:07 PM
  #327
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Jason Wilson with 13 points in his last 11 games. 22 in 38 for the season.
Wow. Slowly turning on his offensive game. His fists will get him signed no matter what. If he can add some offense thats a plus.

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01-16-2011, 10:11 PM
  #328
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Whats the deal with Hobbs? I know he was a 7th rounder back in 07 and is currently considered a Junior but how, all of a sudden, is he putting up a good amount of points?

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01-16-2011, 10:34 PM
  #329
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Wow. Slowly turning on his offensive game. His fists will get him signed no matter what. If he can add some offense thats a plus.
I've seen very little of him. Is he that good in a scrap?

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01-16-2011, 10:37 PM
  #330
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And you'd be happy with that? A player that takes that long to develop? I'd rather have a guy that I'm confident has what it takes upstairs and will be playing great hockey in 4 years, at the most.
Define great hockey. This is Staal's 6th year after being drafted. He just made the all-star team for the first time. He is still appreciating in value. In a year or two, he could be a Norris contender. But he's been a very useful and valuable player over the past three years.

Check around how defensemen mature. With very few exceptions, the answer is slowly. Go look at Duncan Keith's career path. If I use your philsophy, all I am drafting are forwards. Defensemen take time (for the last timne)

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01-16-2011, 11:00 PM
  #331
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Define great hockey. This is Staal's 6th year after being drafted. He just made the all-star team for the first time. He is still appreciating in value. In a year or two, he could be a Norris contender. But he's been a very useful and valuable player over the past three years.
Certainly a valid point...

It goes back to what I was saying about Dubinsky... He was not projected to be the caliber of player that he is today... But it also took 3 NHL seasons of experience for him to get to this point.... Regardless of what round or position he was selected, the value to the organization is there... It doesn't matter if he was picked 60th overall or 20th or 80th overall... Where a player of Brandon Dubinsky's current caliber would be selected back on the 2004 draft day is really irrelevant... But it goes to prove that you have to wait a long time to know what you've got in your selection...

You can't really speculate/guess with any degree of certainty as to where an 18 year old defenseman's game will be when he's in his early to mid 20's, and gets some valuable experience under his belt... Some fans I think have already made up their mind prematurely, and that goes both ways... Personally I'm abstaining from jumping the gun and rushing to judgment/criticism because I think it's counter-productive and a waste of time... It's a process and until you see it play out, you simply don't know... I'm keeping an open mind about the pick and the player and I'm not forming any conclusions... It's more rewarding to be cautiously optimistic than it is to be prematurely disappointed.


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01-16-2011, 11:03 PM
  #332
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Whats the deal with Hobbs? I know he was a 7th rounder back in 07 and is currently considered a Junior but how, all of a sudden, is he putting up a good amount of points?
With many NCAA teams, the Seniors grow into the top minutes. Hobbs was a 4th line center for much of his career until this season.

He still doesnt have NHL level talent. AHL maybe. ECHL likely.

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01-16-2011, 11:13 PM
  #333
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Any new updates on Ethan Werek? Last I heard was having his wrist evaluated... He still hasn't been playing in any game as far as I've seen... Hope it's not a season ending injury.

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01-16-2011, 11:19 PM
  #334
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Any new updates on Ethan Werek? Last I heard was having his wrist evaluated... He still hasn't been playing in any game as far as I've seen... Hope it's not a season ending injury.
I mentioned it on the last page, they're now calling it a ligament tear. No surgery planned at this point, but no one knows when he'll be back. He still can't grip a stick with the left hand.

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01-16-2011, 11:20 PM
  #335
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I mentioned it on the last page, they're now calling it a ligament tear. No surgery planned at this point, but no one knows when he'll be back. He still can't grip a stick with the left hand.
Thanks... Thought I had previously read all the posts on the previous page but I guess I missed the posts towards the bottom...

BTW CH2 I'm an excellent reader thank you.

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01-16-2011, 11:21 PM
  #336
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I've seen very little of him. Is he that good in a scrap?
Yeah. he is impressive with his fists. He and McNaught are very talented in that department. McNaught being the bigger player but Wilson is still 6'3 but I would probably classify him as a "middle-weight". He is an aggressive player so he needs to be able to do that if he wants to play that way and he can more than hold his own.

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01-16-2011, 11:44 PM
  #337
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Anyone curious if the Rangers perhaps encouraged or influenced McIlrath not to drop the gloves much this season? Or maybe it was a personal/individual decision by him not to do so? I've been noting the penalties on the box scores each game and there's been quite a few games with some serious fisticuffs and penalty minutes handed out, and he hasn't been involved...


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01-16-2011, 11:51 PM
  #338
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Certainly a valid point...

It goes back to what I was saying about Dubinsky... He was not projected to be the caliber of player that he is today... But it also took 3 NHL seasons of experience for him to get to this point....

It's more rewarding to be cautiously optimistic than it is to be prematurely disappointed.
Some great stuff by both you and bobbop, Wolf.

Quick story about Dubinsky. Back a 6-7 years ago after we drafted him, I screwed up some nerve and just called the Winterhawks. Can't even remember who it was that I spoke to. I was being impulsive and was a bit nervous, but the guy was nice enough.

He said Dubinsky was being charitably listed as taller than he actually was by the Rangers. I think he said he was like 5-9 rather than 5-10/11. He said that Dubinsky was a passionate player. Had no doubts he'd be an NHLer. You always know he's there: on the ice, on the bench or even in the building. A total pain the rear to play against. His skating needed work, but that Dubinsky had what it took to get better. He predicted Dubinsky would top out as a solid 3rd line center/LW.

At one point two seasons ago Dubinsky went like 20 games w/out a goal, and people were calling for him to be traded. So here we are almost 7 yrs after we drafted him and I would bet any team in the league would take him off our hands quicker than a blink of an eye.

Guy is shaping up as a top six player now, no doubt.

My point is that being patient and cautiously optimistic has and will continue to go a long way.

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01-17-2011, 12:06 AM
  #339
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Some great stuff by both you and bobbop, Wolf.

At one point two seasons ago Dubinsky went like 20 games w/out a goal, and people were calling for him to be traded. So here we are almost 7 yrs after we drafted him and I would bet any team in the league would take him off our hands quicker than a blink of an eye.

Guy is shaping up as a top six player now, no doubt.

My point is that being patient and cautiously optimistic has and will continue to go a long way.

cheers

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01-17-2011, 12:09 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Define great hockey. This is Staal's 6th year after being drafted. He just made the all-star team for the first time. He is still appreciating in value. In a year or two, he could be a Norris contender. But he's been a very useful and valuable player over the past three years.

Check around how defensemen mature. With very few exceptions, the answer is slowly. Go look at Duncan Keith's career path. If I use your philsophy, all I am drafting are forwards. Defensemen take time (for the last timne)
That's not my philosophy at all. My pholosophy is not drafting players with high first round picks who bring humongous question marks in the most important aspects of the game, no matter what position they play. When Staal was drafted, he was miles ahead of McIlrath with his defensive game. Staal was a phenomenal positional defender in juniors.

And I think Staal's development curve is absolutely fine. The problem with this team is that Staal was thrust into the role of #1 defender almost from the start, meanwhile, he's better suited to be the #1B guy, so he's faced slightly unrealistic expectations from day 1. I never expected Staal to be a perennial Norris contender when he was drafted, but I liked the pick (loved it, in fact, and was glad we traded up to make it) because you could see that, for the role he fills, he was already on track to being very good. All I see with McIlrath is a typical big body who relies on his size and strength rather than making the right hockey play most of the time. That's very disturbing to me, and not the kind of player you want to risk a first, especially a high one, on.

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01-17-2011, 12:45 AM
  #341
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Stats updated.

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01-17-2011, 09:54 AM
  #342
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Kreider got an assist on BC's only goal last night as they fell to UMaine in Orono.


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01-17-2011, 10:48 AM
  #343
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This argument seems to be trending more towards arguing about drafting Forwards vs Defense. It is generally accepted that defensemen take longer to develop. Jim Rutherford was quoted as saying that by the time the defensemen truly develop, they are almost free agents. I do understand where he is coming from after the Jack Johnson fiasco, but I don't know if I completely agree with it. There is definitely debate to be had regarding the idea, though. I still like the pick.

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01-17-2011, 12:00 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Anyone curious if the Rangers perhaps encouraged or influenced McIlrath not to drop the gloves much this season? Or maybe it was a personal/individual decision by him not to do so? I've been noting the penalties on the box scores each game and there's been quite a few games with some serious fisticuffs and penalty minutes handed out, and he hasn't been involved...
Probably a combination of the Rangers saying they wanted him to keep an edge to his game while trying to stay on the ice and him realizing he is his teams #1 defenseman and needing to play 25+ minutes a night rather than spend 10 minutes in the box.

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01-18-2011, 11:34 AM
  #345
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Some great stuff by both you and bobbop, Wolf.

Quick story about Dubinsky. Back a 6-7 years ago after we drafted him, I screwed up some nerve and just called the Winterhawks. Can't even remember who it was that I spoke to. I was being impulsive and was a bit nervous, but the guy was nice enough.

He said Dubinsky was being charitably listed as taller than he actually was by the Rangers. I think he said he was like 5-9 rather than 5-10/11. He said that Dubinsky was a passionate player. Had no doubts he'd be an NHLer. You always know he's there: on the ice, on the bench or even in the building. A total pain the rear to play against. His skating needed work, but that Dubinsky had what it took to get better. He predicted Dubinsky would top out as a solid 3rd line center/LW.

At one point two seasons ago Dubinsky went like 20 games w/out a goal, and people were calling for him to be traded. So here we are almost 7 yrs after we drafted him and I would bet any team in the league would take him off our hands quicker than a blink of an eye.

Guy is shaping up as a top six player now, no doubt.

My point is that being patient and cautiously optimistic has and will continue to go a long way.
Great stuff Pizza!

I saw a couple of games with Dubi in the WHL and a ton of his rookie year in the AHL. The guy was very very reckless with his elbows/stick and was a major pain in the rear to play against. There aren't many centers like that in the game today, but he was a true old time agitating/punishing PF center. His skating was horrible x 10 but I loved him.

Then that game disappeared in a blind of an eye when he had established himself in the NHL, which also led to him IMHO being Pretty worthless for a couple seasons. We aren't seeing the old Dubi now, but we are seeing someone who is getting involved full time.

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01-18-2011, 11:54 AM
  #346
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Any new updates on Ethan Werek? Last I heard was having his wrist evaluated... He still hasn't been playing in any game as far as I've seen... Hope it's not a season ending injury.
Speaking of Werek, I'm surprised his camp (family, agent, whoever) didn't get him out of Kingston at the trade deadline. IMO, he's the same player today as he was in his rookie season, despite the fact he had the potential to be much, much more than that.

His numbers haven't really improved in his three seasons in the OHL, and while he's good defensively and great on draws (something like 65% on the season), he still has the same bouts with inconsistency that he had as a 17-year old.

Kingston doesn't do its players any favors in this regard. If you're a "star", you play regardless of how lazy you are in a particular game. There's no accountability, and no real structure that forces players to play hard every game.

I think in a different environment, Werek could easily have been a 40+ goal, dominant two-way center in the OHL. Instead, he's a 30+ goal, sometimes good, sometimes inconsistent, center.

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01-18-2011, 01:55 PM
  #347
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Speaking of Werek, I'm surprised his camp (family, agent, whoever) didn't get him out of Kingston at the trade deadline. IMO, he's the same player today as he was in his rookie season, despite the fact he had the potential to be much, much more than that.

His numbers haven't really improved in his three seasons in the OHL, and while he's good defensively and great on draws (something like 65% on the season), he still has the same bouts with inconsistency that he had as a 17-year old.

Kingston doesn't do its players any favors in this regard. If you're a "star", you play regardless of how lazy you are in a particular game. There's no accountability, and no real structure that forces players to play hard every game.

I think in a different environment, Werek could easily have been a 40+ goal, dominant two-way center in the OHL. Instead, he's a 30+ goal, sometimes good, sometimes inconsistent, center.
Thanks for the input. I think people seemed to get overly excited over his fast start this season and haven't realized that his PPG dropped significantly, maybe below 1ppg, recently.

I'm assuming the part about Kingston is directed at players like Nathan Moon? I have heard he has attitude issues. I think Werek will make a good impact in the AHL, and it's great to hear he's so good at faceoffs, the Rangers desperately lack that skill.

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01-18-2011, 02:12 PM
  #348
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Great stuff Pizza!

I saw a couple of games with Dubi in the WHL and a ton of his rookie year in the AHL. The guy was very very reckless with his elbows/stick and was a major pain in the rear to play against. There aren't many centers like that in the game today, but he was a true old time agitating/punishing PF center. His skating was horrible x 10 but I loved him.

Then that game disappeared in a blind of an eye when he had established himself in the NHL, which also led to him IMHO being Pretty worthless for a couple seasons. We aren't seeing the old Dubi now, but we are seeing someone who is getting involved full time.
Thanks Ola.

At one point Dubi was on a list of the most hated players in the WHL. Definitely had the rep of being a first class agitator in the dub.

But he's adapted his game to help him focus on his talents as a player rather than as a pure agitator. My own opinion is that when he had that big growth spurt, he realized that he could have a power forward frame. Why not try and develop the game to go with the frame?

He's starting to have success with it. I really like what I see most nights.

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01-18-2011, 04:25 PM
  #349
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Thanks for the input. I think people seemed to get overly excited over his fast start this season and haven't realized that his PPG dropped significantly, maybe below 1ppg, recently.

I'm assuming the part about Kingston is directed at players like Nathan Moon? I have heard he has attitude issues. I think Werek will make a good impact in the AHL, and it's great to hear he's so good at faceoffs, the Rangers desperately lack that skill.
Moon is a big part of it, but it's a team-wide issue. Moon just happens to be by far and away the biggest culprit in terms of the "why do I have to try if the coach is going to play me 30 minutes a night anyway?" attitude.

With Werek, I almost get the feeling it's a frustration thing that starts to seep in as the season wears on. He'll come out of the gates on a ridiculous pace, but it's almost as though as soon as he realizes he's the only guy trying out there -- and the coaching staff isn't doing a damn thing to curtail it -- he gets fed up and goes into cruise control mode himself.

It certainly doesn't help that Werek seems to play second fiddle to Moon. Every time Kingston acquires a skilled guy, he gets put on Moon's line, while Werek gets stuck with the leftovers. Case in point, when Kingston acquired Ryan Spooner, he was put immediately onto Moon's line.

I wish they handled Werek better, because I think of all Kingston's players, he's got the best chance to dominate in all areas on the ice. He's great on face offs, he's got an NHL caliber wrist shot which he gets off extremely quickly, he's strong battling along the boards, he hustles, and he's conscientious defensively. His issue, like many players in Kingston, is just bringing that sort of game every night.

That's the part I blame on coaching/management in Kingston. They simply don't expect/demand 60 minute efforts every game from their "stars". I'd wager that if Werek played for a team like Kitchener, St. Mike's, Ottawa, London, or Windsor, he'd have been invited (and might even have made) Team Canada at the WJC.

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01-19-2011, 09:10 PM
  #350
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+3 and two primary assists for McIlrath tonight

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