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2010-2011 Rangers Prospects Thread (Juniors, NCAA, International, Other) *Part 3*

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Old
02-14-2011, 10:49 PM
  #951
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Chris Kreider knows where to score the goals. Go to the net.

http://www.nesn.com/2011/02/beanpot-...-23-years.html

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02-14-2011, 11:01 PM
  #952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeSapLlama View Post
Dany Heatley - 2nd Overall
Vanek - 5th Overall
Oshie - 24th Overall
JVR - 2nd Overall

Chris Kreider - 19th Overall

There are obviously question marks regarding Chris Kreider's ability, otherwise he would have gone top 5. Why compare him to those 4 players, where (3 of 4 of them) went way higher? At 19th overall, Kreider was drafted because of his potential. The question is whether he can put all the aspects of the game together. Everyone knows this, whether they admit it or not. But comparing him with a bunch of high draft picks is definitely not a fair comparision, and only brings a skewed perspective.
I realize that those players were drafted much higher, point was illustrating what statistical success looks like at the NCAA level.

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Old
02-14-2011, 11:30 PM
  #953
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Numbers 100% aren't everything.

Nigel Dawes scored 3 consecutive 50 goal seasons in the WHL...

Kreider is developing into a two way player. The way he's developing, plus his elite speed, size, strength, character, work ethic, team-first, win mentality... He will be a very good NHL player.

We don't know if he will be a superstar or just a very good player. Like Dubinsky. He will be our star. Maybe not a league wide superstar. But he will be one of our faces like Dubinsky, Callahan, Stepan, and Staal have become. For better or worse.

And if that's what he develops into, I can't see how anyone could be disappointed.

The draft is a crap shoot if you aren't drafting a sure fire superstar with the #1 or #2 overall pick. Any other pick you look for the guy who has the best chance to develop into the best Pro player he can be. A #19 overall pick becoming something like Dubinsky would be a steal.

I personally think that eventually he's going to be more.

But the point is, Kreider has a high chance of sticking in the NHL for a long time.

Him not scoring 40 points in the NCAA in his Sophomore year, is not going to make or break his career.

The way he's developing, he will fit in here next year and be able to play. If he had a low IQ he wouldn't have focused on making his game more complete, he would be running around trying to one-man-show. Instead, he's playing a role. Sacrificing, being un-selfish. And he's still producing despite that and the roster being deep.

I can't wait for Tortorella to get his hands on Kreider. This coaching staff is going to love the kid and they're going to do very good things for his development.

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02-15-2011, 12:34 AM
  #954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Chris Kreider knows where to score the goals. Go to the net.

http://www.nesn.com/2011/02/beanpot-...-23-years.html
Nice find.

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Old
02-15-2011, 12:38 AM
  #955
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I'd also like to point out that Kreider isn't the featured player or line on this team. He doesn't nearly as much PP time as the first PP guys do and like SupersonicMonkey said he is asked no only to score, but be a great defensive player too and is doing that well as evidenced by the recent PK time he has been getting.

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Old
02-15-2011, 12:55 AM
  #956
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2 goals and the primary assist on the Tourny winning goal.

Bean Pot MVP.

He always seems to be there when it counts.

What were the concerns about Krieder again?

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02-15-2011, 01:04 AM
  #957
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
2 goals and the primary assist on the Tourny winning goal.

Bean Pot MVP.

He always seems to be there when it counts.

What were the concerns about Krieder again?
Sweet. His clutchness can replace Drury's.

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Old
02-15-2011, 01:13 AM
  #958
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What were the concerns about Krieder again?
People misspelling his last name.

Kreider*

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Old
02-15-2011, 03:20 AM
  #959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Numbers 100% aren't everything.

Nigel Dawes scored 3 consecutive 50 goal seasons in the WHL...

Kreider is developing into a two way player. The way he's developing, plus his elite speed, size, strength, character, work ethic, team-first, win mentality... He will be a very good NHL player.

We don't know if he will be a superstar or just a very good player. Like Dubinsky. He will be our star. Maybe not a league wide superstar. But he will be one of our faces like Dubinsky, Callahan, Stepan, and Staal have become. For better or worse.

And if that's what he develops into, I can't see how anyone could be disappointed.

The draft is a crap shoot if you aren't drafting a sure fire superstar with the #1 or #2 overall pick. Any other pick you look for the guy who has the best chance to develop into the best Pro player he can be. A #19 overall pick becoming something like Dubinsky would be a steal.

I personally think that eventually he's going to be more.

But the point is, Kreider has a high chance of sticking in the NHL for a long time.

Him not scoring 40 points in the NCAA in his Sophomore year, is not going to make or break his career.

The way he's developing, he will fit in here next year and be able to play. If he had a low IQ he wouldn't have focused on making his game more complete, he would be running around trying to one-man-show. Instead, he's playing a role. Sacrificing, being un-selfish. And he's still producing despite that and the roster being deep.

I can't wait for Tortorella to get his hands on Kreider. This coaching staff is going to love the kid and they're going to do very good things for his development.
Great post!

For this team, it would be so friikin awesome if Kreider could become like a player in the Zach Parise mold (not at all in terms of style, but someone who could even crack the top 10 in scoring in a good year).

With Kreider's engine, its impossible not to dream of high hights. With that said, if he becomes like a 2nd-3rd lineer who can pot some goals, that makes him a very good draft pick. And that certainly counts to. Is a great step in the right direction for this team and what not.

But darn, would it have been nice if he could take a step in the right direction and bring his game to even another level...

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Old
02-15-2011, 07:55 AM
  #960
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Originally Posted by nyrfan444 View Post
C'mon man. I've a big a fan of this kid as anyone, have been watching him since his days at Andover, but the numbers are not that impressive.

You want to see what legit 1st line NHL talents do in the NCAA in their FR/SO seasons?

Dany Heatley
28-28-56 in 38
24-33-57 in 39

Thomas Vanek
31-31-62 in 45
26-25-51 in 38

Even look at:

T.J. Oshie
24-21-45 in 44
17-35-52 in 43

JVR
11-23-34 in 31
17-23-40 in 36

Are stats everything? NO.

And certainly Kreider is in a little different situation where his team is extremely deep and he isn't "the guy" like these players were.

But let's not pretend Kreider's numbers are impressive.

EDIT - Sorry to be a Debbie Downer, like I said I'm a huge fan of the kid. Just trying to bring some perspective.
What about TOI. PP points. PK time. Lot more to being a good player than the scoring indicates and we all know how limited CK has been thanks to the way the program is run. But it succeeds for that program so while it stinks for us wanting to see our prospect shine I can't really say much about that. He was the leader of the US team this year wasn't he? Keeps coming up huge in big games, lotta reason to be excited he has 1st line POTENTIAL no doubt.

I mean it would be even more concrete if he had 35 something points but in the end numbers are just predictors and plenty of times guys under or overperform past their numbers as prospects.

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Old
02-15-2011, 08:59 AM
  #961
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
2 goals and the primary assist on the Tourny winning goal.

Bean Pot MVP.

He always seems to be there when it counts.

What were the concerns about Krieder again?
On draft day they were:


1- He would be a one-dimensional speedster.

He knew what he needed to focus on in his development, and did it. He's a legitimate two way threat now. He can play in a defensive role, he can play the PK, he can play in any situation. He's always had a physical game, he's always been a team-first, just-win player.
-----

2- He would never have as many assists as he would goals.

Evidenced by the way he's developed his playmaking game, this concern is now defunct. Its also reflected in his stats. He's just about reached his season totals of last year, and he has double the amount of assists.
-----

3- His IQ.

The IQ thing was always bogus, IMO. He was more inexperienced then had low IQ. He's a very intelligent person. He's also always been able to adapt and progress quickly at each level. He focused on, worked on, and developed all the areas he needed to to round out his game and become a better overall player. All signs of NOT having poor hockey IQ.
-----

4- Will he reach his potential at the NHL level.

To be determined.

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Old
02-15-2011, 09:41 AM
  #962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeSapLlama View Post
Dany Heatley - 2nd Overall
Vanek - 5th Overall
Oshie - 24th Overall
JVR - 2nd Overall

Chris Kreider - 19th Overall

There are obviously question marks regarding Chris Kreider's ability, otherwise he would have gone top 5. Why compare him to those 4 players, where (3 of 4 of them) went way higher? At 19th overall, Kreider was drafted because of his potential. The question is whether he can put all the aspects of the game together. Everyone knows this, whether they admit it or not. But comparing him with a bunch of high draft picks is definitely not a fair comparision, and only brings a skewed perspective.
And reduced availability in that he had a commitment to BC before any minors, if I am not mistaken..
So he was drafted lower based on a totality of circumstances, not just raw talent vs. raw talent.

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Old
02-15-2011, 09:55 AM
  #963
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Old
02-15-2011, 10:13 AM
  #964
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Kreider's Game replay today @ 3:30et on NESN

Ch628 on dtv

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Old
02-15-2011, 11:21 AM
  #965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
People misspelling his last name.

Kreider*
LOL, I simply have to hit the rack earlier and back off on the cold meds.

I'm a crappy speller anyways.

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02-15-2011, 12:55 PM
  #966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
On draft day they were:


1- He would be a one-dimensional speedster.

He knew what he needed to focus on in his development, and did it. He's a legitimate two way threat now. He can play in a defensive role, he can play the PK, he can play in any situation. He's always had a physical game, he's always been a team-first, just-win player.
-----

2- He would never have as many assists as he would goals.

Evidenced by the way he's developed his playmaking game, this concern is now defunct. Its also reflected in his stats. He's just about reached his season totals of last year, and he has double the amount of assists.
-----

3- His IQ.

The IQ thing was always bogus, IMO. He was more inexperienced then had low IQ. He's a very intelligent person. He's also always been able to adapt and progress quickly at each level. He focused on, worked on, and developed all the areas he needed to to round out his game and become a better overall player. All signs of NOT having poor hockey IQ.
-----

4- Will he reach his potential at the NHL level.

To be determined.
The IQ debate is a curious one to me. It seems that a lot of folks base a lack of hockey IQ on Kreider's part to a N/S style of play.

That is a bit simplistic IMO. Especially when we are talking about a guy who is 19 years old.

Normally when someone comes from a background such as Kreider's and then has the kind of results he has had, we would call that progress.

Instead, there seems to be an effort to categorize him as a prospect with limited upside.

Getting a fix on what hockey sense is seems a bit like trying to grab a fart in the wind to me.

One thing that is plain is that Kreider has some things that can't be taught, namely: Size, Extreme Speed, Good Attitude, and an ability to produce Clutch points in big games.

Where is the lack of hockey IQ/Sense? What am I missing?

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02-15-2011, 01:11 PM
  #967
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But darn, would it have been nice if he could take a step in the right direction and bring his game to even another level...
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=67657

Slow and steady development didn't hurt this guy, the exact player I see Kreider becoming, at the very least.

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02-15-2011, 01:28 PM
  #968
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Instead, there seems to be an effort to categorize him as a prospect with limited upside. One thing that is plain is that Kreider has some things that can't be taught, namely: Size, Extreme Speed, Good Attitude, and an ability to produce Clutch points in big games.

Where is the lack of hockey IQ/Sense? What am I missing?
Nailed it there some people lean more towards trying to be right than enjoying the whole process of watching prospects although others for fun will legitamately give their opinions on what a player is like now and in the future without bias. Especially all summer all word was his coachability was very high and he was being raved about outside the organization and with his natural abilities that's what made me feel like he's our best prospect since hank.

I think he will be a leader and a scorer for this team. B/t him, Cally, Step, Staal, Dubs, hank we will have guys across the board who will step up in big games which is something we don't have very often. I don't like making predictions for him b/c I feel too high so there's some personal bias in there but I expect 70-90. My head tells me it will be more like 50-60 some 30-40 goal seasons .

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02-15-2011, 01:37 PM
  #969
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krieder is going to make an immediate impact in the nhl i cant wait to see him play

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02-15-2011, 01:39 PM
  #970
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A few Tweets from the Rangers on what Tort's is saying today about Kreider:

Torts: "college is still a good training ground...but we would love to get (Kreider) in learning the pro game"

and

Torts said that he hopes Kreider turns pro next season, and had wanted him to turn pro like Stepan and McDonagh last summer....

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02-15-2011, 01:42 PM
  #971
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Glad the kid stayed in College, progressing nicely.

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02-15-2011, 01:45 PM
  #972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
A few Tweets from the Rangers on what Tort's is saying today about Kreider:

Torts: "college is still a good training ground...but we would love to get (Kreider) in learning the pro game"

and

Torts said that he hopes Kreider turns pro next season, and had wanted him to turn pro like Stepan and McDonagh last summer....

The Rangers are going to flashing the ELC in front of him, and he'll be schmoozed by Stepan and McDonagh...just like McDonagh had a hard time returning to Wisconsin, I see the same for Kreider.

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02-15-2011, 01:51 PM
  #973
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The Rangers are going to flashing the ELC in front of him, and he'll be schmoozed by Stepan and McDonagh...just like McDonagh had a hard time returning to Wisconsin, I see the same for Kreider.
Its good timing.

Did NOT want all these rookies learning here at once, we had a very nice amount this year, next year hopefully a new wave will follow

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02-15-2011, 01:58 PM
  #974
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Its good timing.

Did NOT want all these rookies learning here at once, we had a very nice amount this year, next year hopefully a new wave will follow
I think Kreider would have been in the AHL, most likely. But I'm fine with him playing college for 1 more year. He's said he plans to turn pro after this year.

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02-15-2011, 02:20 PM
  #975
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I cannot wait for this kid. What an amazing skater.

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