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Kings vs Sharks -1/1/11 - POSTGAME THOUGHTS & TIDBITS

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Old
01-02-2011, 03:33 AM
  #51
Chazz Reinhold
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First off, the goal against wasn't weak. That was a great shot after a terrible ****ing play by Johnson. I don't know what the hell he was thinking but he backed off so far before Setoguchi even got close to the zone for absolutely no reason. Johnson's gap control sucks.

Secondly, Sturm has not been slow at all out there. I'm amazed anyone thinks otherwise. He's coming off of major knee surgery, yet he's one of the fastest players on the team.

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01-02-2011, 04:37 AM
  #52
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Sturm looks like a great addition so far. He may not be able to go all out just yet, it looks like he's playing at 80% out there, but he's a solid complementary player to the line. He goes into corners, works the boards, and is a decent distributer. The points will come with chemistry, which isn't far away by the looks of it.

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01-02-2011, 04:39 AM
  #53
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rozen Royalty Audio: LA Kings Fix Defense, But San Jose Wins, 1-0

Frozen Royalty Audio: LA Kings Fix Defense, But San Jose Wins, 1-0

Also features a photo of Kings' television color commentator (and former Kings right wing) Jim Fox, shown wearing his famed "Don Cherry" jacket that he brings out of his closet on rare occasions...thankfully. :-)

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01-02-2011, 05:31 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
First off, the goal against wasn't weak. That was a great shot after a terrible ****ing play by Johnson. I don't know what the hell he was thinking but he backed off so far before Setoguchi even got close to the zone for absolutely no reason. Johnson's gap control sucks.

Secondly, Sturm has not been slow at all out there. I'm amazed anyone thinks otherwise. He's coming off of major knee surgery, yet he's one of the fastest players on the team.
That wasn't Johnson's fault, he took Thornton who crossed in front of Setoguchi, Kopitar needed to pick up Setoguchi on the backcheck but chose to take the guy without the puck, Johnson was unable to step up due to Thornton driving the net, it was a great play that Kopitar didn't read quick enough.

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01-02-2011, 10:40 AM
  #55
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While this post is correct, you can't have Harbaugh. My Carolina Panthers are going to nab him and Andrew Luck. BAM!
no No NO NO! NO!! NO!!!

Jimmy Harbaugh is coming home to Ann Arbor and if he doesn't I might jump off a bridge.

You guys will look great with Ron Rivera

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01-02-2011, 11:49 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
First off, the goal against wasn't weak. That was a great shot after a terrible ****ing play by Johnson. I don't know what the hell he was thinking but he backed off so far before Setoguchi even got close to the zone for absolutely no reason. Johnson's gap control sucks.

Secondly, Sturm has not been slow at all out there. I'm amazed anyone thinks otherwise. He's coming off of major knee surgery, yet he's one of the fastest players on the team.
... It was a soft goal. It was a shot from above the circles on a slight angle. And, both Doughty and Johnson were well-positioned for a rebound if Quick could have at least knocked the damn shot down. How Quick got a third star for that game is beyond me. Players that cost their teams the game get star awards, apparently, or the media who voted the stars didn't bother to watch the game. The latter is likely the truth.

And I'm not even really interested that the Kings didn't score. So, the game goes to OT tied 0-0. At least there's a point in the standings to be won, possibly two if the Kings win the shootout. Quick has given up 8 goals on 43 shots over his last three games, three or four of them soft. I know Quick is somehow above reproach or criticism, and Johnson's a scapegoat and all, but for chrissakes just call it how it is for a change.

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01-02-2011, 12:08 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Belanger25 View Post
It has been a problem. I also notice that Smyth on the first unit seems to be to the side of the net compared to the front when shots from the point are coming through. I really think if you want Johnson/Doughty/Stoll to be effective we need Handzus in front on the PP.
I know when I play hockey and I crash the net I know exactly who knows where their shot is going and who doesn't. Usually the guys with the cannons have no idea where the puck is going. In Stoll's case I'm sure the entire team knows this clown is trying to pick corners and is missing high and wide. Therefore, somebody like Smyth might be wandering into much safer areas to avoid being struck in the face by a guy who cannot control his shot and doesn't understand the importance of hitting the net. Missing the net from the point is unacceptable, hard and low and get it on net for easy rebounds-especially with the dmen unable to clear the front of the net with crosschecks. I'll bring up Lidstrom again, the guy shoots with his head up and aims for the side of traffic and that's one of the reasons he is a future HOFer.

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01-02-2011, 12:13 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxClearTheCreasexx View Post
Sturm looks like a great addition so far. He may not be able to go all out just yet, it looks like he's playing at 80% out there, but he's a solid complementary player to the line. He goes into corners, works the boards, and is a decent distributer. The points will come with chemistry, which isn't far away by the looks of it.
If you expected ANYTHING from Stoll this season you are completely ignoring recent Kings history with players coming off major surgeries. I think people are looking at Sturm because he got schooled by Joe Tornton at the end of the game. Joe just came back, outskated Sturm to the puck, lifted his stick and skated off with it while Sturm was left standing there. I agree with the other posters that Sturm is not the guy and I question why he was brought to the team coming off his 2nd knee re-construction but the reality is he is here and gives the Kings depth. Next season, after a summer of training rather than re-hab Sturm will put up some points for another team in the NHL-it won't be LA of course.

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01-02-2011, 01:12 PM
  #59
Chazz Reinhold
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
That wasn't Johnson's fault, he took Thornton who crossed in front of Setoguchi, Kopitar needed to pick up Setoguchi on the backcheck but chose to take the guy without the puck, Johnson was unable to step up due to Thornton driving the net, it was a great play that Kopitar didn't read quick enough.
No. Watch the replay. Setoguchi picks up the puck on Johnson's wing. Johnson backs way too far off for some entirely unknown reason considering it wasn't an outnumbered attack. Johnson's gap control is horrible, face it. If he doesn't back off so much, Setoguchi doesn't have the time to walk to the tops of the circles.

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Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... It was a soft goal. It was a shot from above the circles on a slight angle. And, both Doughty and Johnson were well-positioned for a rebound if Quick could have at least knocked the damn shot down. How Quick got a third star for that game is beyond me. Players that cost their teams the game get star awards, apparently, or the media who voted the stars didn't bother to watch the game. The latter is likely the truth.
Sweet here comes your anti-Quick bias. That was not a bad goal. It was just inside the post, about a foot and a half off the ice. That's a great shot. Ask any shooter and they'll tell you that's one of the best spots to place a shot.

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01-02-2011, 01:20 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
Sturm
... Sturm has 3 points in 7 games, his supporting stats like hits and giveaways/takeaways look alright, so does his other data like chances for and against while he's on the ice. He's shown flashes of good speed and acceleration and looks like a smart enough player, so far anyway. I'll take all of that, especially from a guy that was picked up for nothing, and who averages 13 and a half minutes a game and next to zero PP time.

I agree in that he's not any kind of solution to the first line situation; when Parse comes back he should regain his spot on that wing, and Sturm should be dropped to the Handzus line. Sturm was overexposed last season on the top line for Boston and the majority of his value at this point in his career is in his defense.

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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
Stoll
... I don't necessarily agree with this - Stoll has missed the net fewer times than Brown and Williams have, and Stoll's usually shooting from the point. I've seen Stoll shoot low and try to create rebounds that way, but most of the low shots just get blocked in front, don't they? To compare him to Lidstrom is more than a bit ridiculous; if it were as easy as Lidstrom makes it look, there would be a truckload of great point players in the NHL. One of the reasons Nick's a HOFer is because he makes everything look easy, and because he usually is surrounded by excellent skaters who are able to cover for the mistakes he may or may not make.

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01-02-2011, 01:25 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
Sweet here comes your anti-Quick bias. That was not a bad goal. It was just inside the post, about a foot and a half off the ice. That's a great shot. Ask any shooter and they'll tell you that's one of the best spots to place a shot.
... Yeah, I know anyone who doesn't say Quick is the best goaltender since hockey was invented and a first-ballot Hall of Famer right now is automatically anti-Quick and biased against him, I get it. It was a bad goal. Quick got a good look at it, and he just got beat. Again, if it was Bernier getting beat like that, the "soft goal" cries on this BB would be in nearly every post, but because Quick got beat it's automatically a great shot because Quick never gives up goals (never mind the 8 on 43 shots like I mentioned) and hey Johnson was on the ice and he's a scapegoat so let's blame him! I get it.

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01-02-2011, 01:51 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... Yeah, I know anyone who doesn't say Quick is the best goaltender since hockey was invented and a first-ballot Hall of Famer right now is automatically anti-Quick and biased against him, I get it. It was a bad goal. Quick got a good look at it, and he just got beat. Again, if it was Bernier getting beat like that, the "soft goal" cries on this BB would be in nearly every post, but because Quick got beat it's automatically a great shot because Quick never gives up goals (never mind the 8 on 43 shots like I mentioned) and hey Johnson was on the ice and he's a scapegoat so let's blame him! I get it.
Ok first off, both Kopitar and Thornton skated in the lane between Setoguchi and Johnson as Setoguchi was shooting. Quick did not get "a good look at it." Your inflammatory remarks never addressed anything I said. Instead of coming off as pretentious, why don't you address my contention that the shot was perfectly placed just inside the post and a little under halfway up the net? Seriously, ask any hockey player. That's a great place to put the puck. There's a reason shooters like putting it there, and that's because goalies have a hard time stopping shots perfectly placed in that spot.

Instead of claiming I'm trying to scapegoat Johnson, why don't you address the fact that he backed so far off for no reason? Admit it, his gap control is awful. By backing so far off he allowed Thornton to cut through the shooting lane, which led to Kopitar following him since Kopitar was covering Thornton. I'm not scapegoating Johnson; I'm pointing out that he can't control his gap well at all and gave Setoguchi all the time in the world to drift to the top of the circles.

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01-02-2011, 01:56 PM
  #63
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Oh and Bernier's allowed 6 goals on the last 35 shots. I can play with numbers, too.

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01-02-2011, 01:59 PM
  #64
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http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/con...1&event=L.A509

Watch Johnson needlessly back off. Watch Thornton and Kopitar skate through the lane right as Setoguchi is releasing the puck. Watch Setoguchi shoot from right in the slot. Watch.

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01-02-2011, 02:06 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/con...1&event=L.A509

Watch Johnson needlessly back off. Watch Thornton and Kopitar skate through the lane right as Setoguchi is releasing the puck. Watch Setoguchi shoot from right in the slot. Watch.


... It's cute how you're going on and on about this, but Setoguchi appears to be off to the left of where Kopitar, Johnson, and Thornton are. Quick doesn't appear to be looking around a screen. The shot comes from above the circles.

And I pretty much said Bernier was poor against Philadelphia so I don't know what you're on about with that, either.

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01-02-2011, 02:13 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post


... It's cute how you're going on and on about this, but Setoguchi appears to be off to the left of where Kopitar, Johnson, and Thornton are. Quick doesn't appear to be looking around a screen. The shot comes from above the circles.

And I pretty much said Bernier was poor against Philadelphia so I don't know what you're on about with that, either.
It's also cute how you picked the frame right after Setoguchi releases the shot. Kopitar and Thornton skate right through the lane as Setoguchi is firing the puck. Maybe, just maybe, having two players cut right through your vision as a player behind them is shooting the puck affects your ability to track the puck.

I never said anything about your opinion on Bernier during the Flyers' game; I just pointed out the Bernier's allowed 6 on 35 since you pointed out Quick allowed 8 on 43. Playing with numbers is fun.

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01-02-2011, 02:14 PM
  #67
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Meh, Johnson backs off too much. The shot comes from the high slot, and not from an angle. Quick is not screened and is at the top of the crease where he should be, but Setoguchi's shot is perfectly placed above the pad and below the blocker, just inside the post.

It's just a good shot. Quick is quite easily a top 10 goalie in the NHL this season.

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01-02-2011, 02:59 PM
  #68
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Meh, Johnson backs off too much. The shot comes from the high slot, and not from an angle. Quick is not screened and is at the top of the crease where he should be, but Setoguchi's shot is perfectly placed above the pad and below the blocker, just inside the post.

It's just a good shot. Quick is quite easily a top 10 goalie in the NHL this season.
I agree, the two seemingly contradictory statements are indeed true: Quick allowed a soft-ish goal, and he is a good goaltender.

Kind of the same thing with the rest of the game. For the most part, the Kings played well. They limited chances against, they had a ton of possession time in San Jose's zone, they moved the puck pretty well through the neutral zone. But they also lost. San Jose executed well, especially in their own zone. They really shut down the center of the ice, and Niemi had a good game.

Overall, is it just a loss, or is it a continuing indictment of Lombardi's failure to address scoring issues/Smyth's contract/Stoll's shot/Quick being above criticism? I lean more toward "just a loss." San Jose is a good team, and they made good plays. Yes, some Kings were clearly a step behind, but the whole game was at three-quarters speed, Kings and Sharks alike. The energy and intensity seemed about even to me.

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01-02-2011, 03:51 PM
  #69
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I wanted to get a goalie's opinion on the shot, so I asked the goalie for my club team--he played juniors, as well. This was his response:

"First off just over the pad and below the blocker is that spot where your not sure if you can get it with the pad or blocker so your in that gray zone, and a shot just inside the post is pretty good placement anyway."

Not that will change any of your minds, but this kid's a good goalie and has a good grasp on the position.

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01-02-2011, 04:07 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
I wanted to get a goalie's opinion on the shot, so I asked the goalie for my club team--he played juniors, as well. This was his response:

"First off just over the pad and below the blocker is that spot where your not sure if you can get it with the pad or blocker so your in that gray zone, and a shot just inside the post is pretty good placement anyway."

Not that will change any of your minds, but this kid's a good goalie and has a good grasp on the position.
Being a former forward, I can tell you that's where I want to shoot it.

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01-02-2011, 04:25 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Post of the night.

Problem with putting a guy where you want him, is that generally he is too close to the PK'ers to get a shot off, and specifically with the Kings, they don't have a sniper who should go there.

Brown is not a sniper
Kopitar is not a sniper

Who would you suggest to put in this mythical box surrounded by active sticks and PK'ers?
It doesn't matter who you put there............... even Westgarth would do.
The job isn't to score, the job is to pull the attention of the forechecking pk'ers to the opposite site of the puck possession
Just review the Doan PP goals Kings vs Coyotes.
Take a good look what the guy in the middle is doing and how much space it creates for Doan to do the point shot.
This doesn't happens randomly, this is well trained PP.

doan.JPG

Compare Doan's position very close to the goal to the position of our blueliners on a PP.
I wouldn't call our pointshots actually pointshots.....
Our blueliners are forced way to the boards by opponents PK forecheckers
because there is no one in the middle who pulls the pressure.
That leads to our blueliners just throw the puck roughly to the goal direction instead having a great shooting lane.

I can't belive that there is a professional NHL team with a coaching staff who doesn't even know the basics of the game. Don't the Kings have a video staff ????
There are millions of things i could point out every game and the sad thing is it's always the same mistakes we do.

The way to do a successfull PP is to force the opponents Pk'er out of position to create a chance.
What we are doing is park 2 guys in front of the net, shooting into the crowd and hope for a lucky goal............... same for the 5vs5........ there is no trained positioning, there is no game plan........ just throw it to the goal and see what's happening.
That is not acceptable.... not for me, not for you or anyone who puts his hard earned money into this team


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01-02-2011, 08:33 PM
  #72
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Quote:
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... Sturm has 3 points in 7 games, his supporting stats like hits and giveaways/takeaways look alright, so does his other data like chances for and against while he's on the ice. He's shown flashes of good speed and acceleration and looks like a smart enough player, so far anyway. I'll take all of that, especially from a guy that was picked up for nothing, and who averages 13 and a half minutes a game and next to zero PP time.

I agree in that he's not any kind of solution to the first line situation; when Parse comes back he should regain his spot on that wing, and Sturm should be dropped to the Handzus line. Sturm was overexposed last season on the top line for Boston and the majority of his value at this point in his career is in his defense.



... I don't necessarily agree with this - Stoll has missed the net fewer times than Brown and Williams have, and Stoll's usually shooting from the point. I've seen Stoll shoot low and try to create rebounds that way, but most of the low shots just get blocked in front, don't they? To compare him to Lidstrom is more than a bit ridiculous; if it were as easy as Lidstrom makes it look, there would be a truckload of great point players in the NHL. One of the reasons Nick's a HOFer is because he makes everything look easy, and because he usually is surrounded by excellent skaters who are able to cover for the mistakes he may or may not make.
Not comparing Stoll to Lidstrom, merely pointing out there is a right way to shoot from the point and there is Stoll's way. As for Brown-all I see is Dustin hitting the goalie right in the crest. If you could mix Stoll and Brown's shot you'd have a HOFer.

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01-02-2011, 08:48 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/con...1&event=L.A509

Watch Johnson needlessly back off. Watch Thornton and Kopitar skate through the lane right as Setoguchi is releasing the puck. Watch Setoguchi shoot from right in the slot. Watch.
That's my point, why is Kopitar taking Thornton, when it was clear Johnson took him instead of Setoguchi, Kopitar read the play wrong, when it was clear Johnson was taking Thornton, regardless if was the right or wrong play, Kopitar should have adapted and taken the shooter.

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01-02-2011, 10:36 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
That's my point, why is Kopitar taking Thornton, when it was clear Johnson took him instead of Setoguchi, Kopitar read the play wrong, when it was clear Johnson was taking Thornton, regardless if was the right or wrong play, Kopitar should have adapted and taken the shooter.
Umm what? Kopitar and Thornton both start in the center of the ice while Johnson and Setoguchi are on the right wing. How you think Setoguchi was Kopitar's man and Thornton was Johnson's is incomprehensible. If Johnson had not give that huge gap like he did, he would have been able to make a play on Setoguchi at the blue line.

In no way, shape, or form was Setoguchi Kopitar's man.

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01-02-2011, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
Umm what? Kopitar and Thornton both start in the center of the ice while Johnson and Setoguchi are on the right wing. How you think Setoguchi was Kopitar's man and Thornton was Johnson's is incomprehensible. If Johnson had not give that huge gap like he did, he would have been able to make a play on Setoguchi at the blue line.

In no way, shape, or form was Setoguchi Kopitar's man.
Initially no, but if you think it stays a constant, I don't know what to tell ya bud.

Thornton drove the net, Johnson had no choice but to pick up Thornton, you don't let him go to the net alone, the reason why Thornton drove the net hard, is to create space for Setoguchi, Kopitar needs to realize this and switch assignments,

It really isn't a hard concept to grasp.

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