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Old
01-03-2011, 12:27 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
I'm just ecstatic Ehrhoff survived after we dealt his crutch from last year Shane O'Brien. Like you, I also thought he would fall apart after the loss of Shane the brain. I still can't believe we dealt the guy that was the driving force behind Ehrhoff's 9th place finish in Norris voting, +35 season and excellent offensive production.
Too bad the playoffs didn't fare as well. That's the point though, to win in the playoffs.

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01-03-2011, 12:35 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
Too bad the playoffs didn't fare as well. That's the point though, to win in the playoffs.
Yup, Burrows and Kesler couldn't elevate their play in the playoffs like Kyle Wellwood had over the last 2 years.

Are you worried about Kesler and Burrows or just Ehrhoff?

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01-03-2011, 12:40 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Yup, Burrows and Kesler couldn't elevate their play in the playoffs like Kyle Wellwood had over the last 2 years.

Are you worried about Kesler and Burrows or just Ehrhoff?
If you bother to read my posts instead of finding ways to criticize them, you'd see I've shared many concerns about Kesler and Burrows and the playoffs.

Neither of them are as one-dimensional as Ehrhoff. I'm concerned about the cost of the defensive core with Ehrhoff at 5.5 million per season. Are you concerned about the cost of the top 6 forwards because of Burrow's salary? I don't think so.

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01-03-2011, 01:41 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by JuniorNelson View Post
Defence is a strong point now. I'd leave it alone.

In the instance of not being able to re-sign a free agent I'd like to see Connauton brought along briskly.

Salo has said before that this was his last year. He sounded pretty cautious about coming back this year, citing possible long term effects of his injury. I doubt he returns next season.

As far as free agents, I nominate Steve Montador, a good Richmond kid and right handed shot!
It's funny that you mention Montador. I heard it straight from a very close source - trust me this is a good source - that he wants to sign with the Canucks at UFA. That's probably not too surprising considering how the team is stacking up these days but what they told me later is. They said (incredibly) that his agent has already talked to the Canucks and that something is on the table.

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01-03-2011, 01:48 PM
  #80
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If that is to be believed, I'd say it's a safe bet that Montador doesn't sign here.

If he (or his agent) are blabbing around about talking to the Canucks and putting the Canucks organization in a position to be guilty of tampering, it's pretty likely that Gillis will go in another direction come July 1st.

Is Montador really worth a loss of money, picks and integrity for this team?

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01-03-2011, 01:50 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
Where does signing Ehrhoff at 5.5 million/season put our negotiations with his crutch, Edler?

Edler gets at least 6.5-7/year if Ehrhoff is at 5.5 in my honest opinion.

Ehrhoff-5.5
Hamhuis-5
Ballard-4.2
Edler???
I like our defense this year, but looking to the future, it is expensive and we have a lot of salary committed for a lot of years. I'm more concerned with the years and NTCs than with the dollars. The D is going to need a cap re-work at some point, but if we can get to the SC Final, or (dare I say it) win the cup this year or next, it will be worth a little cap hell.

The way I see it:

Core Defenders
Edler - gets a long term contract with NTC that takes him into his early 30's.
Hamhuis - has a long term contract.
Ballard could become core if he improves his play as expected. Has a long term contract with limited NTC.

Ehrhoff could be a core player if we make some cap space by not signing Bieksa and Salo.

Short Term?
Ehrhoff - possibly replaced with Connauton within 3 years.
Bieksa - replaced with Ballard or Sauve within 2 months to 2 years.
Alberts - depth, replaced with Parent, Sauve or veteran FA within 1 - 2 years.

Other
Salo is done like dinner. He may well help us with a playoff run, but after that, it's hyvästi Sami.
Rome - cheap, depth for as long as we want him.



The next 2 years are the critical years. Our young prospects (Parent, Sauve, Connauton, Sweatt, Tanev, etc.) are not ready but our core forwards are in their peak years. It is imperative that we get production from players on entry level contracts and replace non-core veterans with productive young players as the veterans hit their 30's.

Bieksa, after this season, and maybe by the trade deadline is a question mark. The organization seems to like his leadership and toughness, so they may well try to re-sign him. I have defended Bieksa's play this year, but if he continues to play well, he is going to command close to $4M as a UFA. While is he playing a core role right now, he is not a part of our core (IMO) looking forward. I wouldn't be opposed to moving him IF AND ONLY IF Ballard is able to elevate his game to the point where Bieksa is superfluous. As much as I have defended Bieksa this season, re-signing him would mean either trading Ballard or letting Ehrhoff walk.

For this to work, Ballard has to elevate his game to what we all expect of him. We gave up the equivalent of 3 first round picks (if you count Bernier who was a 1st round pick, but not for us) for him and have him committed to $4.2M for the next 4-1/2 years with a limited NTC. If we are going to move Bieksa and let Salo walk ( or re-sign really cheap) then Ballard has to play like a core, top 4 defender.

In the next 3 years, I see:
Hamhuis - $4.5M
Ballard - $4.2M
Edler - $3.2M
Ehrhoff - $4.5 - $5M
-----
Fill the bottom pairing and depth positions with some combination of Alberts, Rome, Parent, Sauve, or Salo on a much reduced contract or veteran FA. None to earn more than $1.5M.

After 3 years:
Edler - $5M = $6M (adjust for cap inflation)
Hamhuis - $4.5M
Ballard - $4.2M
Connauton - < $2.5M (RFA contract, adjust for cap inflation)
---
Some combination of Sauve, Parent, or equivalent earning < $2M (inflation adjusted).

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Old
01-03-2011, 01:52 PM
  #82
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Gillis targeting Montador wouldn't really surprise me; he obviously likes playing the 'hometown' card with free agents, and Montador would be a relatively cheaper option then some of the ideas around here (like Markov, etc). He's probably a pretty ideal Bieksa replacement actually.

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01-03-2011, 01:58 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by roddy View Post
If that is to be believed, I'd say it's a safe bet that Montador doesn't sign here.

If he (or his agent) are blabbing around about talking to the Canucks and putting the Canucks organization in a position to be guilty of tampering, it's pretty likely that Gillis will go in another direction come July 1st.

Is Montador really worth a loss of money, picks and integrity for this team?
I agree completely with what you're saying but IIRC, there are ways to tamper without tampering. I don't think there is anything stopping a GM from talking to an agent and saying something like "We're in need of a solid 3rd pairing defensive defensemen, I guess we'd be willing to shell out 1.5 million a year to acquire such a guy". So long as they don't get into any real depth I think GMs are allowed to communicate their team's needs to agents without mentioning specific players. It would be up to the agent to understand if any of the players they represent could potentially be a fit on July 1st.

Of course the league isn't stupid - if it's too abundantly clear what the intent was (like with Kovalchuk's first contract), they will still put their foot down hard.

I'm sure a more knowledgeable poster will be able to shed some more light on the matter.

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01-03-2011, 02:01 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by roddy View Post
If that is to be believed, I'd say it's a safe bet that Montador doesn't sign here.

If he (or his agent) are blabbing around about talking to the Canucks and putting the Canucks organization in a position to be guilty of tampering, it's pretty likely that Gillis will go in another direction come July 1st.

Is Montador really worth a loss of money, picks and integrity for this team?
I highly doubt it's actually the agent or Montador saying these things, probably just family speculations.

And seriously, if NHL didn't do anything about the Leafs tampering with the Sedins, they aren't going to do anything about tampering Montador.



On topic, however, Montador would be reliable enough for a bottom pairing, local Vancouver born player, what more can we ask for?

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01-03-2011, 02:11 PM
  #85
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As long as people take discounts I don't mind who we get.

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01-03-2011, 02:35 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
I agree completely with what you're saying but IIRC, there are ways to tamper without tampering.
Yes. But if "something is on the table" it's beyond that I would think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAK View Post
And seriously, if NHL didn't do anything about the Leafs tampering with the Sedins, they aren't going to do anything about tampering Montador.
That's why I mentioned integrity. Gillis preaches character, intelligence and integrity and going out and signing a player after rampant rumours that you've already negotiated with them (in violation of the CBA, and a couple years after very publicly complaining about another team doing the same thing) isn't at all consistent with that.

It's not always as much about what punishment you might receive as it is about what your actions communicate about you.

Same way that we hear about teams breaking off trade talks that have suddenly become a bit too public for their liking.

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01-03-2011, 04:23 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by JAK View Post
I highly doubt it's actually the agent or Montador saying these things, probably just family speculations.

And seriously, if NHL didn't do anything about the Leafs tampering with the Sedins, they aren't going to do anything about tampering Montador.



On topic, however, Montador would be reliable enough for a bottom pairing, local Vancouver born player, what more can we ask for?
This is not speculative or a rumour from friends of friends. I heard this from someone that talked directly to the Montador camp the day before they told me.

What I take from this, knowing this source - and believe me they have panned out before - is that Montador wants to sign with the Canucks and that his camp has had contact with them. They were very clear about his interest.

I should clarify however that they did not say a contract was on the table waiting to be signed. I didn't mean to imply that. I don't believe there is any way the Canucks would throw an offer out like that either. It doesn't seem to be the Gillis MO especially considering this is a minor free agency signing.

As far as tampering is concerned let's be realistic though: players and agents have discussions with GM's all the time before free agency. There are many ways of signalling interest and walking the tampering line without getting caught. GM's generally know what the numbers are and what teams players are interested in long before free agency as well.

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01-03-2011, 04:35 PM
  #88
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Do whatever it takes to get Shea Weber. Erhoff can go if we get Weber.

Edler-Weber
Hamhuis-Ballard
Whoever-does it matter with a top four like that?

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01-03-2011, 04:46 PM
  #89
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well, if this was true, then great, Montador would replace Alberts as our 3rd pair cornerstone.

should be a bit more mobile than Alberts

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01-03-2011, 05:27 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by JAK View Post
well, if this was true, then great, Montador would replace Alberts as our 3rd pair cornerstone.

should be a bit more mobile than Alberts
Right handed shot, right side D. Food for thought given our overload of lefties. Even an Alberts-Montador 3rd pairing would still be solid.

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01-03-2011, 07:02 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by deckercky View Post
I hope Ehrhoff can be resigned at 5 per year. He could get 5.5-6 likely elsewhere, but I think the Canucks to an extent were a perfect storm for Ehrhoff (and vice versa).
He's not going to get 5. He'll be very lucky to get 4.5 million.

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01-03-2011, 07:05 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
After 3 years:
Edler - $5M = $6M (adjust for cap inflation)
Hamhuis - $4.5M
Ballard - $4.2M
Connauton - < $2.5M (RFA contract, adjust for cap inflation)
---
Some combination of Sauve, Parent, or equivalent earning < $2M (inflation adjusted).
There's no need to be this stingy with our cap space after 3 years. That would be almost how much we're spending on our d-core right now, and after three more seasons, the cap will probably be up another 6-8 million. We can go after another high-priced defenseman IMO.

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01-03-2011, 07:21 PM
  #93
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Honestly, it's dangerous to speculate on the future in the middle of a major hot streak like this, and it's even more difficult to speculate until we know what will happen with this 'salo situation', but i'd be quite content to see our defence essentially remain the same as it is right now.

Next year:
-re-sign Ehrhoff. hope for a ~$4.5M deal, basically a carbon-copy of the Hamhuis deal. realistically probably closer to $5M, and go with a shorter term length.
-re-sign Bieksa. if he's willing to basically extend on a short term basis for something around the $3.75M he's at now. if he wants more, or a really long-term deal, you let him walk i guess.
-re-sign Alberts. hopefully willing to stick around for 1 more year at around the $1M ballpark he's at now. if not, bottom-pairing guys are relatively replaceable.

-Salo walks. he's just too much of a risk now, unless he's willing to go in for a ridiculously budget-minded contract in the $1.5M or less range. even then it'd be a 1-yr thing, and still a tough decision.

essentially gives you the same d-corps as what we have now, albeit at an inflated salary load. have to hope the cap increase covers at least some of it.

edler-ehrhoff
hamhuis-bieksa
alberts-ballard
*rome

*add in Parent as an 7/8th d-man competing with Rome if they're gonna carry 8.

hard to argue with success.

The young guys are all still a ways off, so you roll with vets for another year. After next year, you have a chance to re-evaluate how the young guys are coming along and opportunities to slot them into the NHL lineup as contracts expire.

-Connauton looks like he's still at least a couple more years away. Hopefully he'll be able to step in 3+ years from now as a replacement for Ehrhoff whenever his next contract expires.

-Sauve will probably be best served by another full year playing big minutes in the AHL next season, but will probably make a solid 1st/2nd call-up with his waiver status.
-Tanev will also need another year or two in the AHL to mature physically and in his game as a whole.
*these guys will hopefully be ready for NHL spots as Alberts/Rome contracts expire. slowly replacing Vets with young guys moving up. eventually you get a bit more room opening up as Bieksa moves on in 2-3 years.

the other prospects are real questionmarks and i wouldn't plan on them as part of the future. if they make it eventually, it's a bonus and you deal with that if it happens.

but as a progression you end up with something like:

2011-12:
Edler-Ehrhoff
Hamhuis-Bieksa
Alberts-Ballard
*Rome/Parent

2012-13:
Edler-Ehrhoff
Hamhuis-Bieksa
Sauve-Ballard

2013-14:
Edler-Ehrhoff
Hamhuis-Ballard
Sauve-Tanev

2014-15:
Edler-Connauton
Hamhuis-Ballard
Sauve-Tanev

that would be a sort of absolutely ideal situation, and the whole thing could very well end up more drawn out than that. and who knows if all 3 of those guys will even make it at all. obviously, the pairings are nearly impossible to predict and there's a lot of room for flexibility there. and there's a whole boatload of things that can change along the way and completely alter that sort of blueprint. trades, drafts, injuries, cap issues, unpredictable development, etc. but as of right now, that's roughly the way i would hope/expect to see it unfolding.

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01-03-2011, 07:25 PM
  #94
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There's no need to be this stingy with our cap space after 3 years. That would be almost how much we're spending on our d-core right now, and after three more seasons, the cap will probably be up another 6-8 million. We can go after another high-priced defenseman IMO.
That's why I said adjust for cap inflation.

Edler's $5M - $6M could be $6M - $7M in 3 years. I prefer to work with todays cap economics. Connauton's $2.5M could be $3M or more for a first RFA contract.

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01-03-2011, 08:57 PM
  #95
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He's not going to get 5. He'll be very lucky to get 4.5 million.
Erhoff will very easily go for 5 on the open market. Lots of teams desperate for PMD's and there aren't many D's hitting the open market this year

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01-04-2011, 03:41 AM
  #96
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It's funny that you mention Montador. I heard it straight from a very close source - trust me this is a good source - that he wants to sign with the Canucks at UFA. That's probably not too surprising considering how the team is stacking up these days but what they told me later is. They said (incredibly) that his agent has already talked to the Canucks and that something is on the table.
I'd be down with that. I think Montador would be good here.

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01-04-2011, 08:45 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by JAK View Post
I highly doubt it's actually the agent or Montador saying these things, probably just family speculations.

And seriously, if NHL didn't do anything about the Leafs tampering with the Sedins, they aren't going to do anything about tampering Montador.
Not that I am saying anything on the issue either way, its only tampering if Vancouver doesn't get Buffalo's permission to talk with him. IF Buffalo has no intention of even attempting to resign him they might just give the whole issue a shrug. Its not like Montador is an important cog in a Buffalo machine aiming for the cup.

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01-04-2011, 12:41 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by JAK View Post
I highly doubt it's actually the agent or Montador saying these things, probably just family speculations.

And seriously, if NHL didn't do anything about the Leafs tampering with the Sedins, they aren't going to do anything about tampering Montador.



On topic, however, Montador would be reliable enough for a bottom pairing, local Vancouver born player, what more can we ask for?
The NHL found the Leafs guilty of tampering and imposed a fine.

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01-04-2011, 12:58 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Street Hawk View Post
Edler, Ballard, Hamhuis, and Rome are signed for next season.

Salo, Bieksa, Erhoff, and Alberts are UFA this summer.

Priority is to retain Erhoff at a reasonable rate. If Erhoff is aiming for $5 million, then the Nucks probably have to let him go. If it's reasonable in the $4 - $4.25 range, the Nucks should keep him.Salo, he's in the 35+ group in the summer, so no multi-year deal for him.

Bieksa, I really can't trust retaining him on a multi-year deal. He's been way too inconsistent during his current contract.

Alberts, I'm indifferent on him.

As for prospects, I don't think any of them in Manitoba would be NHL ready next season.

KConn needs work in his own zone.
Sauve, lost most of this season, so he'll need another season in the minors.
Sweatt, haven't seen how he is doing in Manitoba.
Tanev and Oberg, again don't know enough about them to know if they would be NHL ready.

If any of them is on the NHL roster next season, it would be at the #7 spot, but I wouldn't want to move Rome into the #6 role. He's best at the #7 spot.
Ehrhoff is not signing for 4 to 4.25. He will get more money than Hamhuis got. He should get more money then Hamhuis as he is a pp quarterback while Hamhuis is barely adequate on the second unit. Also, Ehrhoff will get more money than Ballard by a long ways, and way more than Bieksa got 3 years ago. If he will sign for 5 you sign him. You pay for offense you do not pay big money for defensive dman. If Ehrhoff makes it to free agency some team will offer him 6 million. Remember the Campbell contract. If Vancouver has a good run in the playoffs someone will pay big for him.

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01-04-2011, 01:04 PM
  #100
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The NHL found the Leafs guilty of tampering and imposed a fine.
You do dat, you go to da box, you know. Two minute, by yourself, you know and you feel shame, you know. And then you get free.

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