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The last missing piece: Another solid D

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Old
01-02-2011, 06:48 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucLight View Post
So is Marc Andre Bergeron out of the picture?
I wouldn't say out of the picture but I think Yzerman will be more focused on strengthening the defensive of the team rather than our already great offensive and powerplay. MAB certainly isn't known for his steady defensive abilities. The acquirement of Roloson should lead us to the assumption that Yzerman and Boucher recognized that the team has developed a lot faster than they originally expected and planned and are willing to make a push forward. While our stats (shots against per game, blocked shots, etc) are pretty good, the team could definitely use another solid D who doesn't tend to overhasty clearing attempts or who isn't shy of using his body.


Last edited by LightningStrikes: 01-02-2011 at 07:02 PM. Reason: spelling :-(
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01-02-2011, 07:03 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by LightningStrikes View Post
I wouldn't say out of the picture but I think Yzerman will be more focused on strengthening the defensive of the team rather than our already great offensive and powerplay. MAB certainly isn't known for his steady defensive abilities. The acquirement of Roloson should lead us to the assumption that Yzerman and Boucher recognized that the team has developed a lot faster than they originally expected and planned and are willing to make a push forward. While our stats (shots against per game, blocked shots, etc) are pretty good, the team could definitely use another solid D who doesn't tend to overhasty clearing attempts or who isn't shy of using his body.
but where would this defenseman slot in, depth wise?

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01-02-2011, 07:10 PM
  #28
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Someone needs to slot in over Lundin right now, as he has been struggling.

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01-03-2011, 06:34 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
but where would this defenseman slot in, depth wise?
We need someone capable of being a #3/4 as in 20 minutes a night, Boucher doesnt exactly run with clear cut defensive rankings, if you look at the TOI/G all our dmen except Jones are between 19:17 and 21:04 a game. I think we need someone capable of logging 20 minutes a night, they dont need to be spectacular just able to eat up Jones's minutes on the PK (2:59 a game) and log around 19/20 minutes a night. In other words reducing Jones to popcorn duty.

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01-03-2011, 06:38 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Bobsled Gainey View Post
Someone needs to slot in over Lundin right now, as he has been struggling.
Disagree, Lundin has always been underrated, he struggles occasionally, but people forget he has played less than 200 NHL games, as Torts always used to say it takes 300 for a dman to be fully comfortable. On any given night he is usually our most solid all round dman and has the hockey sense to be able to adapt his game as necessary, very valuable.

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01-03-2011, 06:59 PM
  #31
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Honestly, I don't quite understand the hate for Jones. Sure, he had a bad reputation among fans of his former teams but it's not like he's sticking out like a sore thumb. He's leading all Lightning D-men in SH TOI/G while Tampa's PK was top-5 for a considerable time (even 1st for a while) and just recently dropped to #7 (not too shabby either). Among our D-men he has recorded more hits than Hedman, more blocked shots than Kubina (!) and Hedman, his giveaway and takeaway numbers are right in the middle of the pack, he's 4th in shots and 4th in points with very little PP time.

Of course it would strengthen the team immensely if we bring in another 20+ minute per game D (that's why I've started this thread) and thus diminish - among others - Jones' minutes, but it's not like Jones is by far our worst D. I'm not saying he's better than Lundin, but Mike seems lost on the ice sometimes and Smaby obviously is not a guy you would want to have to rely on in big games or the playoffs (wait what, playoffs?!).


Last edited by LightningStrikes: 01-03-2011 at 07:20 PM. Reason: grammar
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01-03-2011, 07:22 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by bassassin View Post
We need someone capable of being a #3/4 as in 20 minutes a night, Boucher doesnt exactly run with clear cut defensive rankings, if you look at the TOI/G all our dmen except Jones are between 19:17 and 21:04 a game. I think we need someone capable of logging 20 minutes a night, they dont need to be spectacular just able to eat up Jones's minutes on the PK (2:59 a game) and log around 19/20 minutes a night. In other words reducing Jones to popcorn duty.
I agree. I think Bieksa would be a good option if he's available for a reasonable price.
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Originally Posted by LightningStrikes View Post
Honestly, I don't quite understand the hate for Jones. Sure, he had a bad reputation among fans of his former teams but it's not like he's sticking out like a sore thumb. He's leading all Lightning D-men in SH TOI/G while Tampa's PK was top-5 for a considerable time (even 1st for a while) and just recently dropped to #7 (not too shabby either). Among our D-men he has recorded more hits than Hedman, more blocked shots than Kubina (!) and Hedman, his giveaway and takeaway numbers are right in the middle of the pack, he's 4th in shots and 4th in points with very little PP time.

Of course it would strengthen the team immensely if we bring in another 20+ minute per game D (that's why I've started this thread) and thus diminish - among others - Jones' minutes, but it's not like Jones is by far our worst D. I'm not saying he's worse or better but Lundin seems lost on the ice sometimes and Smaby obviously is not a guy you would want to rely on in big games or the playoffs (wait what, playoffs?!).
I have a hard time including Smaby because he rarely plays and has been ruined by injuries. Lundin is our best defenseman in my opinion and makes far less mistakes than any of our other d-men. Lundin has hit a rough patch lately and he is still not on the bottom half of our D defensively. Randy Jones is EASILY our worst defenseman, just watch him play. He makes errors all the time that usually result in quality chances for the opponent.

Also, he might not be in this league if he didn't block shots. It's not a talent that takes years to learn, and there will be available d-men who can do it just as well and provide more than what Jones gives us. And also, I'm pretty sure Marty has more hits than Hedman.

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01-03-2011, 07:31 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Brad2891 View Post
I agree. I think Bieksa would be a good option if he's available for a reasonable price.


I have a hard time including Smaby because he rarely plays and has been ruined by injuries. Lundin is our best defenseman in my opinion and makes far less mistakes than any of our other d-men. Lundin has hit a rough patch lately and he is still not on the bottom half of our D defensively. Randy Jones is EASILY our worst defenseman, just watch him play. He makes errors all the time that usually result in quality chances for the opponent.

Also, he might not be in this league if he didn't block shots. It's not a talent that takes years to learn, and there will be available d-men who can do it just as well and provide more than what Jones gives us. And also, I'm pretty sure Marty has more hits than Hedman.
No worries, I watch as many games as possible (and that's a lot). That's why I'm having difficulties with people explicitly pinpointing Jones as our biggest liability or by far our worst D / player. Let's be honest all of our D-men make mistakes and look stupid on plays occasionally and they all had their share of "what the **** was he thinking"-moments. I don't see Jones sticking out in any particular way in that category.

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01-03-2011, 07:37 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by LightningStrikes View Post
No worries, I watch as many games as possible (and that's a lot). That's why I'm having difficulties with people explicitly pinpointing Jones as our biggest liability or by far our worst D / player. Let's be honest all of our D-men make mistakes and look stupid on plays occasionally and they all had their share of "what the **** was he thinking"-moments. I don't see Jones sticking out in any particular way in that category.
Well, the bold statement is spot on. In my opinion, we are bad in our own end. Because of this, Jones probably doesn't stick out as much as he would on a good defense. I still find him to be easily our worst regular d-man, though.

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01-03-2011, 07:56 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Brad2891 View Post
I agree. I think Bieksa would be a good option if he's available for a reasonable price.


I have a hard time including Smaby because he rarely plays and has been ruined by injuries. Lundin is our best defenseman in my opinion and makes far less mistakes than any of our other d-men. Lundin has hit a rough patch lately and he is still not on the bottom half of our D defensively. Randy Jones is EASILY our worst defenseman, just watch him play. He makes errors all the time that usually result in quality chances for the opponent.

Also, he might not be in this league if he didn't block shots. It's not a talent that takes years to learn, and there will be available d-men who can do it just as well and provide more than what Jones gives us. And also, I'm pretty sure Marty has more hits than Hedman.
An aggressive forecheck will do that.

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01-03-2011, 07:56 PM
  #36
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jones is probably our worst defenseman that plays probably by default but he really has played quite well based on what i was expecting. smaby really has dissapointed me as i have been a smaby fan for a while now. hopefully he turns it around but he looks like hes trying to fit into the system to hard. also lundin is our number 1 defensman, he is close to perfect defensively but hedman is really emerging, i am loving the way he has played this year, he gets better everyday

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01-03-2011, 07:57 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Brad2891 View Post
Well, the bold statement is spot on. In my opinion, we are bad in our own end. Because of this, Jones probably doesn't stick out as much as he would on a good defense. I still find him to be easily our worst regular d-man, though.
While I wouldn't call our D "bad" I think the bold part has some truth to it. We don't have a superstar / clear #1 D, who's able to eat up up to 30 minutes if necessary and who will bail you out from time to time. In fact, there's noone's really sticking out ice time-wise. When you look at the TOI averages, they're pretty balanced:

Hedman 21:04
Kubina 20:17
Lundin 20:14
Clark 19:51
Ohlund 19:17
Jones 16:39
(Smaby 7:17)

But having five guys sharing almost the same load of ice time seems to fit Boucher's system and worked rather well: We're first in the NHL with 27.5 SA/G. Also, we're sixth in the league in blocked shots. Adding another solid #3/#4 would take some pressure off those five guys and would give Jones a more specific role as PK specialist and backup/#7.

But let's just see how the team and especially the D will perform with an actual goalie behind them. Go Rolo!


BTW, interesting stat: Our PP ranks 4th in the NHL (8th on the road, 2nd at home) but at the same time we're last in shorthanded goals against with seven already.


Last edited by LightningStrikes: 01-03-2011 at 08:13 PM.
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01-03-2011, 08:00 PM
  #38
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Lundin hasn't been good recently, and this is coming from someone who loves the kid and accepts his complete lack of physical play. He keeps getting rushed in his own zone, turns towards the boards, and coughs up the puck. He needs to understand that his aggression with the puck will take him further than getting into battles in the corner hes not prepared to face.

I'm also adding Theo Peckham to my wish list.

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01-03-2011, 08:09 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
An aggressive forecheck will do that.
I was just showing that his stat was pretty much meaningless considering Hedman is not a physical player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningStrikes View Post
While I wouldn't call our D "bad" I think the bold part has some truth to it. We don't have a superstar / clear #1 D, who's able to eat up to 30 minutes if necessary and who will bail you out from time to time. In fact, there's noone's really sticking out ice time-wise. When you look at the TOI averages, they're pretty balanced:

Hedman 21:04
Kubina 20:17
Lundin 20:14
Clark 19:51
Ohlund 19:17
Jones 16:39
(Smaby 7:17)

But having five guys sharing almost the same load of ice time seems to fit Boucher's system and worked rather well: We're first in the NHL with 27.5 SA/G. Adding another solid #3/#4 would take some pressure off those five guys and would give Jones a more specific role as PK specialist and backup/#7.

But let's just see how the team and especially the D will perform with an actual goalie behind them. Go Rolo!


BTW, interesting stat: Our PP ranks 4th in the NHL (8th on the road, 2nd at home) but at the same time we're last in shorthanded goals against with seven already.
I can't really disagree with what you said, but I'm saying if you put Jones on a team like Phi, Pitt, Det, Van etc he would stick out like a sore thumb and get criticized for the crappy player he is. And if it means anything, I feel a little guilty saying that about a professional athlete. Randy could be a great guy and I admire where he's at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobsled Gainey View Post
Lundin hasn't been good recently, and this is coming from someone who loves the kid and accepts his complete lack of physical play. He keeps getting rushed in his own zone, turns towards the boards, and coughs up the puck. He needs to understand that his aggression with the puck will take him further than getting into battles in the corner hes not prepared to face.

I'm also adding Theo Peckham to my wish list.
I agree about Lundin. His youth still shows (especially as of late) but I still think he's been our best D, which isn't really saying much. I'm not sure if I said it here or BP, but I think playoff experience and a productive offseason/camp will do wonders for Lundin. I look forward to seeing how he progresses down the road.

And oh my, the things I would do to get Theo Peckham....

I've wanted him on this team since he became a mainstay with the Oil and I think he'd be a solid fit for our club.

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01-03-2011, 08:47 PM
  #40
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I was just showing that his stat was pretty much meaningless considering Hedman is not a physical player.



I can't really disagree with what you said, but I'm saying if you put Jones on a team like Phi, Pitt, Det, Van etc he would stick out like a sore thumb and get criticized for the crappy player he is. And if it means anything, I feel a little guilty saying that about a professional athlete. Randy could be a great guy and I admire where he's at.



I agree about Lundin. His youth still shows (especially as of late) but I still think he's been our best D, which isn't really saying much. I'm not sure if I said it here or BP, but I think playoff experience and a productive offseason/camp will do wonders for Lundin. I look forward to seeing how he progresses down the road.

And oh my, the things I would do to get Theo Peckham....

I've wanted him on this team since he became a mainstay with the Oil and I think he'd be a solid fit for our club.
See, thats why I don't mind him. Our system doesn't really favor a "traditional" defenseman, it would make Hal Gill look like a raging idiot because we're built on mobility. I think part of Bouchers plan is understanding that we have mobile guys who aren't necessarily the best decision makers at this point, thus the "no d-to-d passes" mentality. Get the puck, find your target, release. I'm not saying these guys are saints, but they're certainly passable. The less thinking and more action, the better.

I also think the playoffs would be fantastic for both Lundin and Hedman. I can't think of anyone else that I really feel needs the experience except maybe Purcell. You know our fourth line will come barreling ass out of the gate come playoff time.

I'm not sure I want to give us the required assets to get Bieksa, unless we can trick Gillis into taking a sack of tacos and a fifth rounder or something.

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01-03-2011, 09:40 PM
  #41
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If Hal Gill played for us he'd might as well just put on the goalie pads.

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01-03-2011, 10:06 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Bobsled Gainey View Post
See, thats why I don't mind him. Our system doesn't really favor a "traditional" defenseman, it would make Hal Gill look like a raging idiot because we're built on mobility. I think part of Bouchers plan is understanding that we have mobile guys who aren't necessarily the best decision makers at this point, thus the "no d-to-d passes" mentality. Get the puck, find your target, release. I'm not saying these guys are saints, but they're certainly passable. The less thinking and more action, the better.

I also think the playoffs would be fantastic for both Lundin and Hedman. I can't think of anyone else that I really feel needs the experience except maybe Purcell. You know our fourth line will come barreling ass out of the gate come playoff time.

I'm not sure I want to give us the required assets to get Bieksa, unless we can trick Gillis into taking a sack of tacos and a fifth rounder or something.
I'd be curious to see what Purcell, a prospect and a 2nd rounder could fetch us. I'm not necessarily saying Bieksa, but I think if we were to go the route of going after a top 4 d-man he'd likely be involved and it wouldn't take a huge bite out of our future. I also like to look at some gritty 3rd/4th liners on teams with possible targets as we could use someone like that to fill in and generally be a good fit for playoff hockey. I'm talking Regehr/Glencross, Bieksa/Glass, Montador/McCormick etc.

Anyways, I agree that the playoff experience will really help guys like Lundin and Hedman. I am also looking very much forward to our 4th line come playoff time. That's when you see those grinder types getting the recognition they deserve, and I have no doubt that our 4th line will impress those who don't watch the Lightning play.

As far as Peckham, I think he brings something we could really use. He has a solid defensive game despite being fairly new to the league, he will only get better and more well-rounded. He's also getting better with the puck, and he provides a good amount of toughness, which is fairly lacking on our blueline. Even if we used him as a 7th , I'd think of that as a good acquisition. However, I have not heard his name in the rumor mill and I doubt we will, because the Oilers seem pretty high on him. Then again, it ain't called a wish list for nothing.

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01-04-2011, 12:08 AM
  #43
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I like Bieksa. But Vancouver isn't a seller

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01-04-2011, 12:09 AM
  #44
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Vancouver might not have a choice, though.

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01-04-2011, 01:28 AM
  #45
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How about Souray?

please please please take him off our hands

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01-04-2011, 07:30 AM
  #46
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How about Souray?

please please please take him off our hands
No...

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01-04-2011, 08:27 AM
  #47
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Would take Bieksa

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01-04-2011, 09:01 AM
  #48
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Good Dmen always come with a price. The question is always with this team, are the current owners/owner willing to pay the price for a competitive blue line. Especially when goaltending is a major concern and can hide some flaws on D with the proper goaltender.

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01-04-2011, 09:31 AM
  #49
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Good Dmen always come with a price. The question is always with this team, are the current owners/owner willing to pay the price for a competitive blue line. Especially when goaltending is a major concern and can hide some flaws on D with the proper goaltender.
Welcome to 2010.

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01-04-2011, 10:33 AM
  #50
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Welcome to 2010.
no doubt, we'll see movement at the deadline i'm positive.

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