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Old
01-05-2011, 11:59 AM
  #1
Matalvatz
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Heatley

I'm bored at work. Was I mistaken in thinking this guy was a sniper when he came over from Ottawa?

I'm not hating on him (yet), 'cause I know he had a good point total last year. It's just that for 7.5mil, or whatever he's making, I expected him to be more of a one-timer, sniper guy, and I don't feel we've seen much of that.

Most of his goals have come from going to the net and picking up garbage rebounds, which is cool, except when he mails it in and takes shifts off. Lately, the thing that's been annoying me most is that when he gets the puck, he doesn't protect it very well, and any sustained offensive attack usually ends when he gets the puck on the boards.

Did he play a different style in Ottawa? Did Alfredson and Spezza make that line click? Why is he making so much money???

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01-05-2011, 12:07 PM
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When I get home from school I'm going to share some thoughts on Heatley.

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01-05-2011, 12:10 PM
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SJeasy
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He may have been a little bit more of a sniper in Ottawa but his asset is quickness, not accuracy. When they were in Atlanta, Kovalchuk was the one with accuracy and Heatley grabbed the garbage. He has very quick hands.

I am pretty sure that Heatley is near the door to the doghouse on the turnover thing. The stats on turnovers for Heatley are pretty damning, something that the coaches can't overlook.

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01-05-2011, 12:11 PM
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As has become standing policy, DW was blinded by a "big name" becoming available, regardless of whether said name was a good fit on the team (it wasn't). The Pizza line in Ottawa had unbelievable chemistry which created the majority of Heatley's goals. He also had spent his entire career playing in the Eastern Conference where goals come a lot easier. He's got good hands in tight and a quick release but his accuracy leaves much to be desired and that's not even getting into his puckhandling issues and lack of speed. I will give him credit for improving his defensive game immensely, particularly this season, and backchecking harder than I'd ever seen him do during his tenure in Ottawa. That said, he isn't worth $7.5 million and he likely will never have another 50 goal season or even a 40-goal campaign.

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01-05-2011, 12:16 PM
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Yes, Spezza made that line click. No, he didn't play much differently.
Spezza > The late Joe Thornton

Heatly can be summed up with one word, hands. He has elite hands/reflexes and will always get his stick on pucks before anyone else in a scrum.... unfortunately, he doesn't work very hard theses days.

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01-05-2011, 01:03 PM
  #6
Matalvatz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnstyles View Post
As has become standing policy, DW was blinded by a "big name" becoming available, regardless of whether said name was a good fit on the team (it wasn't). The Pizza line in Ottawa had unbelievable chemistry which created the majority of Heatley's goals. He also had spent his entire career playing in the Eastern Conference where goals come a lot easier. He's got good hands in tight and a quick release but his accuracy leaves much to be desired and that's not even getting into his puckhandling issues and lack of speed. I will give him credit for improving his defensive game immensely, particularly this season, and backchecking harder than I'd ever seen him do during his tenure in Ottawa. That said, he isn't worth $7.5 million and he likely will never have another 50 goal season or even a 40-goal campaign.
I agree with you with regard to his improved defensive play. Throughout the last season and a half, there has been more than a few times that Heatley's backchecking has saved an odd-man rush, or a pass across the middle of the ice. I'm also starting to realize that he doesn't have the most accurate shot and very quick hands.

Puck-handling, in terms of deking and moving the puck up the ice, isn't so much his problem. I've seen him make more than a few guys look silly when he has enough room in front of him to make a deke. He reminds me of Clowe in this regard (IMO Clowe has the best deking and puck-handling on the team, better than Thornton)

I feel that the puckhandling issues Heatley does have stem from his skating and balance. The minute he is knocked off his skating stride, or gets too close to a defender, or goes into the boards to recover a puck, he loses it most of the time. I may be completely off, but it seems like he has a hard-time keeping his balance in close-quarters, and when you combine it with his non-use of body position, the result is a lot of turnovers.

The most disappointing thing about him though is that big slap shot that I've heard about hasn't necessarily translated into goals for the Sharks. When he came from Ottawa, I expected a sniper-type pure goal scorer that other teams in the league fear. All-in-all, it doesn't seem to be very difficult to shut him down on any given night and I fear that his career is on the decline ever since coming to SJ.

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01-05-2011, 01:24 PM
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We do not need a 7.5 mil garbage man. Heatley's job is to snipe and snipe often and he is not doing his job. He has had very few goals this season where it wasn't off of a rebound.

In my opinion, Heatley is the laziest player on the team. If his one deke move doesn't work and he gives the puck away, he's skating half speed (or possibly full speed and he's just slow) back or taking a lazy penalty.

I was glad to see him playing on the 4th line in the Vancouver game and I hope it sends a strong message to him that he needs to step up his game in a big way. I would not be opposed to making him a healthy scratch for 1 or 2 games if his lazy play continues. Just sayin'

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01-05-2011, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by browncoat24 View Post
We do not need a 7.5 mil garbage man. Heatley's job is to snipe and snipe often and he is not doing his job. He has had very few goals this season where it wasn't off of a rebound.

In my opinion, Heatley is the laziest player on the team. If his one deke move doesn't work and he gives the puck away, he's skating half speed (or possibly full speed and he's just slow) back or taking a lazy penalty.

I was glad to see him playing on the 4th line in the Vancouver game and I hope it sends a strong message to him that he needs to step up his game in a big way. I would not be opposed to making him a healthy scratch for 1 or 2 games if his lazy play continues. Just sayin'
Nobody on this team cleans up garbage goals in front of the net like him, you do realize his big body has contributed to a LOT of screens and goals subsequently as well?

His dekes don't get goals, and he gives the puck away a lot - but the argument for one timers and quick wrist shots means a coaching changeup - right now they're playing him down low for a reason (he's effective there, and sans Couture/Clowe nobody else can do it with any efficiency like he does).

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01-05-2011, 01:58 PM
  #9
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Originally Posted by Longfin View Post
Nobody on this team cleans up garbage goals in front of the net like him, you do realize his big body has contributed to a LOT of screens and goals subsequently as well?

His dekes don't get goals, and he gives the puck away a lot - but the argument for one timers and quick wrist shots means a coaching changeup - right now they're playing him down low for a reason (he's effective there, and sans Couture/Clowe nobody else can do it with any efficiency like he does).
I don't know, I feel like Seto does a better job screening than Heatley but obviously he's not putting the same amount of points up right now so Heatley has him there. 7.5 mil to clean up in front of the net though is pretty ridiculous in my opinion. That could be 2 defenders, which we desperately need.

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01-05-2011, 02:08 PM
  #10
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Why do people care about how he scores his goals? Does a garbage goal not count the same as a one timer?

The concerns about turnovers, puck possesion, etc are fine, totally understandable. But it makes no sense to me to complain about the way he scores goals, so long as the puck goes into the back of the net I don't care how pretty the play was that put it there.

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01-05-2011, 02:22 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snaggle toof View Post
Why do people care about how he scores his goals? Does a garbage goal not count the same as a one timer?

The concerns about turnovers, puck possesion, etc are fine, totally understandable. But it makes no sense to me to complain about the way he scores goals, so long as the puck goes into the back of the net I don't care how pretty the play was that put it there.
The only concern with how he scores is how he is playing and being used to score. There was a stretch where JT was forcing the play for Heatley one-timers and the strategy was failing miserably, part of the overall slump of the big 3. During the stretch, Heatley was not at the net so much. If he does more net front work, I don't have a problem. Personally if they keep the big 3 together, I would use Marleau for the one-timers/sniper duty because he is that accurate and can shoot to create rebounds (shots at the goalie pads) for Heatley. Heatley does not screen so much when at the net, preferring to be just off to the side keeping his stick more free.

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01-05-2011, 02:59 PM
  #12
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If you got assists for effectively screening the goalie, Heatley would have a ton more points

The guy's trying his hardest to be versatile

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01-05-2011, 03:11 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
The only concern with how he scores is how he is playing and being used to score. There was a stretch where JT was forcing the play for Heatley one-timers and the strategy was failing miserably, part of the overall slump of the big 3. During the stretch, Heatley was not at the net so much. If he does more net front work, I don't have a problem. Personally if they keep the big 3 together, I would use Marleau for the one-timers/sniper duty because he is that accurate and can shoot to create rebounds (shots at the goalie pads) for Heatley. Heatley does not screen so much when at the net, preferring to be just off to the side keeping his stick more free.
Inadvertently he screens more often than not - just haven't been enough shots getting through from the high slot or point to take advantage as much. But as far as his reach goes, and hand-eye coordination combined with wicked speed those garbage goals sure add up.

Agree - Marleau is more effective when he's receiving the feeds up high - he can create space or fire it off with enough accuracy so that JT or Heatley should be able to muscle around the rebounds up close and put them in the back of the net.

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01-05-2011, 03:38 PM
  #14
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I don't understand everyone's gripes with the guy. I don't understand how 39+ goals/year in the past 4 years and currently topping the points chart on the team translates to he isn't worth the 7.5 cap hit. His production is exactly what his pay is. The guy can't do everything himself, and you can see that he works hard and tries to make a play. We don't have anyone else who is that good in front of the net to create those screens and rebounds.

SJEasy, you say his turnovers stats are damning. Where are his turnovers? Turning it over in the offensive zone is vastly different then turning it over in your own zone.

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01-05-2011, 03:53 PM
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Funny. If Heatley were scoring all of his goals off of one-timers, I get the feeling that people would instead be complaining that he's just the triggerman for all of the setups that Joe provides him, and that therefore he's (wait for it) not worth $7.5 million.

If you look at his goals in Ottawa, surprisingly few of them (compared to what I expected) came from one-timers or other "snipes" of that ilk. There's a video on YouTube with all of the goals from one of his 50 goal years in Ottawa, and you can probably count on two hands and maybe a foot the number of them that were one time lasers. He's never been able to create off the rush and he's never been a spectacular skater or puckhandler. None of this should be a surprise to anyone who's been paying attention. And yet, year after year he delivers the goods.

$7.5 million material? Maybe not quite, but he's not grossly overpaid for what he brings to the table either.

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01-05-2011, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by UniversalRemonster View Post
I don't understand everyone's gripes with the guy. I don't understand how 39+ goals/year in the past 4 years and currently topping the points chart on the team translates to he isn't worth the 7.5 cap hit. His production is exactly what his pay is. The guy can't do everything himself, and you can see that he works hard and tries to make a play. We don't have anyone else who is that good in front of the net to create those screens and rebounds.

SJEasy, you say his turnovers stats are damning. Where are his turnovers? Turning it over in the offensive zone is vastly different then turning it over in your own zone.
They don't break them down by zone on the stats sites. By eyeball, it is zone entry turnovers. Not as bad as dzone or neutral zone turnovers, but they are too close to the offensive blueline. The guy who has looked good in that regard is JT who has brought his ratio to near 1 to 1 giveaways/takeaways. Even Marleau is pretty good. Heatley's numbers stand out like a sore thumb.

BTW, that wasn't a gripe just a point about what is being seen. The coaches do use stats. I don't think that he is worth his contract but he is not performing that much less well than when he was acquired. He is performing less well than when the contract was signed (probably due to knee injury from way back). $7.5 contracts are for 100pt/year players. Consistent 40 goals won't get a $7.5 contract. It has to be well north of 40 or he has to be a franchise player (Nash). Consistent 40 should look more like a Marleau contract. It isn't that far out of line.

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01-05-2011, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snaggle toof View Post
Why do people care about how he scores his goals? Does a garbage goal not count the same as a one timer?

The concerns about turnovers, puck possesion, etc are fine, totally understandable. But it makes no sense to me to complain about the way he scores goals, so long as the puck goes into the back of the net I don't care how pretty the play was that put it there.
I have to completely agree here, there are concerns about his game but it shouldn't really matter how he scores his goals.

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01-05-2011, 05:09 PM
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Almost everyone on the team has been garbage lately but he's missed a few golden opportunities either by shooting it wide, over the net, or just plain whiffing. I've noticed it far too often and a player of his caliber should not be missing these types of chances. He's being paid elite first liner money but he's playing like a 3rd/4th liner and occasionally, a 2nd liner. That's just not acceptable.

It seems like he's not being used correctly and the coaching staff makes him do things that are not within his skillset. And it doesn't seem like he's having the same chemistry with Thornton and Marleau like he did with Spezza and Alfredsson. His game just doesn't go well with Thornton at all.

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01-05-2011, 05:40 PM
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i'm a Heatley hater (we could do more with the cap space), but he's a great player. he carries a presence that makes the other players around him (Marleau, Thornton) better. Although i do think he's had a negative impact on Setoguchi's development.

He's a perennial all-star, and a 40-goal scorer. we're going to need him to win, especially if DW insists on playing such a bad defense in front of avg. goaltenders.

He should stay - if we cant get equal value in a defenseman in a trade.

and i agree, i was also expecting more "pretty" goals when we got him.

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01-05-2011, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
He may have been a little bit more of a sniper in Ottawa but his asset is quickness, not accuracy. When they were in Atlanta, Kovalchuk was the one with accuracy and Heatley grabbed the garbage. He has very quick hands.

I am pretty sure that Heatley is near the door to the doghouse on the turnover thing. The stats on turnovers for Heatley are pretty damning, something that the coaches can't overlook.
are we talking about the same Heatley I have seen get handcuffed by the puck constantly this year? i cant even begin to count the number of shots he has had deflected because he took too long to get a shot away. you want a quick release look at patty marleau. heatley has not impressed me whatsoever with how quickly he gets the puck off his stick.

his $7 mil would be much MUCH better spent on a solid as ******* $4mil Dman and a $3mil forward.

I was not thrilled when we traded for him, and I have not come around on him since. He has his great moments, but consistency is the name of the game.

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01-05-2011, 06:09 PM
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are we talking about the same Heatley I have seen get handcuffed by the puck constantly this year? i cant even begin to count the number of shots he has had deflected because he took too long to get a shot away. you want a quick release look at patty marleau. heatley has not impressed me whatsoever with how quickly he gets the puck off his stick.

his $7 mil would be much MUCH better spent on a solid as ******* $4mil Dman and a $3mil forward.

I was not thrilled when we traded for him, and I have not come around on him since. He has his great moments, but consistency is the name of the game.
You must really be hating on Marleau then.

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01-05-2011, 06:18 PM
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I was not thrilled when we traded for him, and I have not come around on him since. He has his great moments, but consistency is the name of the game.
Everyone but Boyle has consistency issues this season. And even Boyle falters once in a while.
After getting injured late last season, maybe Heatley's taking the Rob Blake route and saving it for the post-season.

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01-05-2011, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Matalvatz View Post
Was I mistaken in thinking this guy was a sniper when he came over from Ottawa?

I'm not hating on him (yet), 'cause I know he had a good point total last year. It's just that for 7.5mil, or whatever he's making, I expected him to be more of a one-timer, sniper guy, and I don't feel we've seen much of that.

Most of his goals have come from going to the net and picking up garbage rebounds, which is cool, except when he mails it in and takes shifts off. Lately, the thing that's been annoying me most is that when he gets the puck, he doesn't protect it very well, and any sustained offensive attack usually ends when he gets the puck on the boards.

Hey, is that you, Ryan Clowe???

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01-05-2011, 06:51 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
He may have been a little bit more of a sniper in Ottawa but his asset is quickness, not accuracy. When they were in Atlanta, Kovalchuk was the one with accuracy and Heatley grabbed the garbage. He has very quick hands.

I am pretty sure that Heatley is near the door to the doghouse on the turnover thing. The stats on turnovers for Heatley are pretty damning, something that the coaches can't overlook.
i used to watch some thrashers games from 02-04 and back when heatley was in atlanta he and kovalchuk didnt play on the same line. at times heatley also would play the point on the pp. what i wonder is if that car accident hurt heatleys physical abilities. its been a long time and i was just seeing heatley for the first time i dont recall how his play is different from now and then.

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01-05-2011, 06:57 PM
  #25
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Everyone but Boyle has consistency issues this season. And even Boyle falters once in a while.
After getting injured late last season, maybe Heatley's taking the Rob Blake route and saving it for the post-season.
Everyone that plays sports has consistency issues. Heatley's are much more profound than other Sharks players. Clowe and Couture have been extremely consistent this year.

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You must really be hating on Marleau then.
Not hating. Marleau has proven to me in the past that he can be a two way player. When all the talk about Marleau for Heatley was going on I was a firm opposer citing Marleau's enormous defensive upside compared to Heatley.

Unfortunately Marleau got paid big time last year and lions simply do not hunt on a full stomach. Marleau is having a fairly disappointing year by his standards, especially overall effort. I bet patty is one of the guys Clowe was talking about in his little outburst.

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