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Tom Pyatt

View Poll Results: Does Tom Pyatt deserve a place in the line-up ?
Yes 56 49.56%
No 57 50.44%
Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-03-2011, 09:39 AM
  #1
Aurel Joliat
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Tom Pyatt

I am tired to talk about him in every thread so I create a poll.
Do you think Pyatt deserve a place in the line-up ?

You know my position, NEVER ! He steal the place of a better player than him. 3 points after 1/2 season. He is minus 5. Can't hit. Can't score. Can't pass. Can't fight. Can't create plays. When I see his name in the line-up I am angree every time...

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01-03-2011, 09:44 AM
  #2
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and then what, you'll send the results of this poll to JM ?

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01-03-2011, 09:45 AM
  #3
Aurel Joliat
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
and then what, you'll send the results of this poll to JM ?
What is the utility of this message board if it's not for talking about the Habs ?

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01-03-2011, 09:50 AM
  #4
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I don't think it's a YES or NO, to me I think the ideal situation would have Pyatt sharing time with a White or a guy like Eager.

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01-03-2011, 09:58 AM
  #5
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Pyatt would be okay on our fourth line if we weren't struggling offensively and if we didn't lack grit, but whatever line he's been on lately has created nothing offensively and yesterday our fourth line even got scored on twice. One of the big reasons we had success at the beginning of the year was because we were getting offense from our bottom 2 lines and that helped take pressure off our top 2 lines. Our PK is good enough without our PK master as we only let in 1 goal on 12 penalty kills without him vs. Tampa and Washington and that lone goal was on a 5 on 3.

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01-03-2011, 10:01 AM
  #6
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I don't care what anyone tells me. The guy is a space filler. Just because he's responsible defensively doesn't mean he belongs in the line up, he's adequate defensively but brings zero offensive upside. I like his tenacity but that's about it. We need a guy with a bit more sandpaper who'll crash the net and chip in a few goals as well as play defense. I don't think it's hard to find a better player than Pyart out there for very cheap. Look what the Ducks gave us for Lapierre.

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01-03-2011, 10:42 AM
  #7
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Ryan White . SAY WHAT ? :O

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01-03-2011, 10:51 AM
  #8
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Moves his feet. Works hard. Do "the little things". Perfect player for Martin. Not great anywhere but will rarely make a mistake that will directly cost you a goal.

I personnally don't agree. With a thinking like that, we'd always be a contender....for 8th spot. At one point, you need to find players who will have 1 great quality and who you will use his strength to your advantage and yes, he's pretty good on the PK....but so are the others. I mean we are not only scored on when he's not on the ice.... Surely, you need the most complete player out there. What strikes me though is that you'll always look at the offensive player and will easily not find him reliable in the defensive zone but rarely will you talk about a defensive player and not find him totally inept in the offensive zone. Funnily enough, you'll also refer to guys like Pyatt as a good 2-way player...sorry but where is the "offensive way" to his game again? Pyatt is to what Gill is on D. 1-way, defensive, fine to have on the PK but at one point to be a better team, you need better players than that all around. At this time he's fine in the role of 12th-13th. The day you want a better team, to upgrade it, you don't want him.

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01-03-2011, 10:54 AM
  #9
llamateizer
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penalty killing is the reason that Pyatt and Gill are in the lineup

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01-03-2011, 10:55 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Moves his feet. Works hard. Do "the little things". Perfect player for Martin. Not great anywhere but will rarely make a mistake that will directly cost you a goal.

I personnally don't agree. With a thinking like that, we'd always be a contender....for 8th spot. At one point, you need to find players who will have 1 great quality and who you will use his strength to your advantage and yes, he's pretty good on the PK....but so are the others. I mean we are not only scored on when he's not on the ice.... Surely, you need the most complete player out there. What strikes me though is that you'll always look at the offensive player and will easily not find him reliable in the defensive zone but rarely will you talk about a defensive player and not find him totally inept in the offensive zone. Funnily enough, you'll also refer to guys like Pyatt as a good 2-way player...sorry but where is the "offensive way" to his game again? Pyatt is to what Gill is on D. 1-way, defensive, fine to have on the PK but at one point to be a better team, you need better players than that all around. At this time he's fine in the role of 12th-13th. The day you want a better team, to upgrade it, you don't want him.
Wow, words cannot describe how right this post is. Could not have said it better myself.

+1 to you, Good Sir. Your continued posting of intelligent thoughts is one of the few things that draws me back to these boards on a daily basis.

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Old
01-03-2011, 10:56 AM
  #11
We Want The 25
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i like him hes not amazing at everything but hes good at everything he doesnt make any mistakes really hes smart defensively so i have no problem with him being on the 4th line but obviously i would prefer a grinder that can hit and fight

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01-03-2011, 11:04 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Moves his feet. Works hard. Do "the little things". Perfect player for Martin. Not great anywhere but will rarely make a mistake that will directly cost you a goal.

I personnally don't agree. With a thinking like that, we'd always be a contender....for 8th spot. At one point, you need to find players who will have 1 great quality and who you will use his strength to your advantage and yes, he's pretty good on the PK....but so are the others. I mean we are not only scored on when he's not on the ice.... Surely, you need the most complete player out there. What strikes me though is that you'll always look at the offensive player and will easily not find him reliable in the defensive zone but rarely will you talk about a defensive player and not find him totally inept in the offensive zone. Funnily enough, you'll also refer to guys like Pyatt as a good 2-way player...sorry but where is the "offensive way" to his game again? Pyatt is to what Gill is on D. 1-way, defensive, fine to have on the PK but at one point to be a better team, you need better players than that all around. At this time he's fine in the role of 12th-13th. The day you want a better team, to upgrade it, you don't want him.
I agree with everything here and if we weren't so terrible at scoring goals, he might not hinder us that much, but as of now. We struggle to score and continue to roll out a guy who is completely incapable of creating any kind of offence. He is useless.

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01-03-2011, 11:17 AM
  #13
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He deserves a spot, but for a team that's lacking goal scoring, he shouldn't be replacing a goal scorer.

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01-03-2011, 11:27 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Moves his feet. Works hard. Do "the little things". Perfect player for Martin. Not great anywhere but will rarely make a mistake that will directly cost you a goal.

I personnally don't agree. With a thinking like that, we'd always be a contender....for 8th spot. At one point, you need to find players who will have 1 great quality and who you will use his strength to your advantage and yes, he's pretty good on the PK....but so are the others. I mean we are not only scored on when he's not on the ice.... Surely, you need the most complete player out there. What strikes me though is that you'll always look at the offensive player and will easily not find him reliable in the defensive zone but rarely will you talk about a defensive player and not find him totally inept in the offensive zone. Funnily enough, you'll also refer to guys like Pyatt as a good 2-way player...sorry but where is the "offensive way" to his game again? Pyatt is to what Gill is on D. 1-way, defensive, fine to have on the PK but at one point to be a better team, you need better players than that all around. At this time he's fine in the role of 12th-13th. The day you want a better team, to upgrade it, you don't want him.
Another post to praise this post. It perfectly explains the problem I have with players like Pyatt. Reminds me of how I feel about Wallin. Ugh.

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01-03-2011, 11:31 AM
  #15
Blind Gardien
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As long as his salary doesn't creep above the league minimum, then I think he deserves a spot on the roster, anyway. He's serviceable. He can kill penalties. His speed sometimes is useful on the forecheck. He might not be in the lineup every night, but he has demonstrated that he can play a certain (extremely limited) role in the NHL.

And he's really young too. I don't personally think he'll get a whole lot better, but he's still gaining experience in his role.

I guess I just don't get why people get too worried about players like this. Every team rounds out its roster with some cheap depth guys. They don't make any difference. We're the same team with or without Tom Pyatt, but without him we'd just have Steve Begin or Mathieu Dandenault or somebody else that people would complain about, in all likelihood. Pyatt is ok. And again, cheap.

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01-03-2011, 11:40 AM
  #16
Whitesnake
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
As long as his salary doesn't creep above the league minimum, then I think he deserves a spot on the roster, anyway. He's serviceable. He can kill penalties. His speed sometimes is useful on the forecheck. He might not be in the lineup every night, but he has demonstrated that he can play a certain (extremely limited) role in the NHL.

And he's really young too. I don't personally think he'll get a whole lot better, but he's still gaining experience in his role.

I guess I just don't get why people get too worried about players like this. Every team rounds out its roster with some cheap depth guys. They don't make any difference. We're the same team with or without Tom Pyatt, but without him we'd just have Steve Begin or Mathieu Dandenault or somebody else that people would complain about, in all likelihood. Pyatt is ok. And again, cheap.
To me, it makes a difference when the system is build on the playing style of guys like that. Mind you, while I didn't like Dandenault, I appreciated Bégin for not only his work on the PK but his aggressive forecheck and while not the biggest his hard bodychecks that could turn a game in our favour and give us some momentum. Unfortunately, he took a bad penalty once and was then named enemy of the state. I agree that it takes those players on the bottom 6. But when your greatest quality is being cheap....Personnally, I would have a Clutterbuck type of player, a Rupp or any of those guys who's not only good on the forecheck but can make you pay the price and be able to get on your nerves, make you more tired as the game passes by, make you take penalty on them, or just try to change the momentum of the game by heavy hitting and occasionnal fighting but not obligatory. But that it MY way of seeing how I liked to see my team playing, I clearly understand it's TOTALLY not what the Habs are all about.....Maybe one day....

But we have a team when the 4th line will play 8-11 minutes, not just 4-6. I see every player we have as an important piece of our success, at least based on the system we're playing.


Last edited by Whitesnake: 01-03-2011 at 11:49 AM.
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01-03-2011, 11:45 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Pernell Karl View Post
Pyatt would be okay on our fourth line if we weren't struggling offensively and if we didn't lack grit.....
I agree.

The problem is that people fall in love with a bottom line player and are mad when they do not get ice time. So.. you look at who is getting it and that player becomes the enemy.

I am referring of course to the Lapierre being traded situation. It sucks that he lost his spot in the eyes of the coach, but it also sucks that he did not fight to get his role back while he was on the ice... instead he took the cheapo way out.... ask for a trade.

Hell, it worked for his buddy.....

In the end, who cares about the top 6 forwards. If your focus is there, the game is already lost.

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01-03-2011, 11:47 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Moves his feet. Works hard. Do "the little things". Perfect player for Martin. Not great anywhere but will rarely make a mistake that will directly cost you a goal.

I personnally don't agree. With a thinking like that, we'd always be a contender....for 8th spot. At one point, you need to find players who will have 1 great quality and who you will use his strength to your advantage and yes, he's pretty good on the PK....but so are the others. I mean we are not only scored on when he's not on the ice.... Surely, you need the most complete player out there. What strikes me though is that you'll always look at the offensive player and will easily not find him reliable in the defensive zone but rarely will you talk about a defensive player and not find him totally inept in the offensive zone. Funnily enough, you'll also refer to guys like Pyatt as a good 2-way player...sorry but where is the "offensive way" to his game again? Pyatt is to what Gill is on D. 1-way, defensive, fine to have on the PK but at one point to be a better team, you need better players than that all around. At this time he's fine in the role of 12th-13th. The day you want a better team, to upgrade it, you don't want him.
Was gonna say penalty kill, but Whitesnake is right, Detroit does not have strictly one dimensional players, they have a little something extra.

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01-03-2011, 11:51 AM
  #19
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He has great speed and has potential to be a great fore-checker.. too bad he never finishes his checks and prefers to skate circles around the opposing team's defencemen. The guy only has 18 hits, which is unacceptable for a 4th line player.

I would much rather see a guy like Ryan White on the team. The team could some more grit and desperately need guys who are willing to throw hits. You know you have a problem when your team's best hitter is named Andrei Kostitsyn.

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01-03-2011, 12:01 PM
  #20
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Pyatt appears to be playing with less edge these last few weeks than in last year's playoffs and at the very beginning of this year. That shouldn't be a shock, and it shouldn't be reason to waive him - it's Pyatt's 2nd year in the big leagues, it's normal for young players to have setbacks. I don't think he's earned a permanent spot, but I also don't see the harm in having him in the bottom six rotation. None of Moen, Pyatt or Darche (or Lapierre when he was here) have been good enough to be clearly out of healthy scratch range, IMHO.

Pyatt has shown good things in the not so distant past. He seems like a hard worker, so I don't see any reason why he wouldn't learn how to show those qualities on a more consistent basis, as per the usual learning curve for a young player.

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01-03-2011, 12:05 PM
  #21
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Pyatt plays very well defensively, and is a hard worker, but I just don't think that's enough alone to be an everyday NHL forward.

An everyday NHLer needs to compliment that with something: If not scoring, then being a good fighter. Or if not an outright fighter, then at least being an effective forechecker that punishes the opposition with good, clean checks.

Pyatt doesn't really have any of that going for him, so that means he's not really a solid NHLer. He's, at best, an Ok place-holder until a better option comes along. The fact that he's pretty much an everyday player for us (he's played in 33 out of 40 Habs games this season) tells me that Martin either doesn't value depth scoring enough, or that we genuinely don't have any better options within the system (which is a bit of a scary thought).


All of the above being said, the quality of a team's 4th line is the sort of thing you tinker around with when you're satisfied with the core of your team. And, right not, the Habs have bigger problems than an unproductive 4th line. So, while I'd like to see our 4th line upgraded a bit, we should have bigger priorities when it comes to how to improve the team by trade or free agent signing.

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01-03-2011, 12:09 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
But when your greatest quality is being cheap....Personnally, I would have a Clutterbuck type of player, a Rupp or any of those guys who's not only good on the forecheck but can make you pay the price and be able to get on your nerves, make you more tired as the game passes by, make you take penalty on them, or just try to change the momentum of the game by heavy hitting and occasionnal fighting but not obligatory.
.
Well, with the parity, being cheap is a good quality.
Clutterbuck, Rupp, they're much more expensive, and we have to take that into consideration.
The guys with an offensive touch are tougher to develop, and are rarely traded, so we have to deal with it.

In our lineup we currently have as offensive players :
Gomez, Cammalleri, Gionta, Plekanec, Kostitsyn, Pouliot, Eller, Pacioretty and Desharnais.

9 guys. More than almost any team in the league i think...
You need some players to eat some icetime (unless you want Plekanec to play more than 25 mins/game ) and help the team in other aspects of the game.
Why defense is not as appreciated as offense ?

He's very reliable for a guy that is only 23. Hard-worker.
When he's on the ice, you know that you should be fine, its not the case for the biggest part of the 4th liners. (Remember Dustin Boyd ?). He dont make stupid plays (again, not an obvious thing), he dont take penalties...(only 2 PIM in 33 games !)
He is a big part of our success in the PK, the best in the league, as he is the most-used forward in the unit.

For a 4th liner, i dont see how anyone could complain about him.
You wanna see some offense ? How this is the main goal of a 4th liner ? Lets talk about the inconsistency of Kostitsyn, the lack of luck of Cammalleri, the struggles of Eller, but Pyatt is paid 500.000$ to play 12 mins/game, help the PK and he is doing that fine.

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01-03-2011, 12:28 PM
  #23
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Who cares about 4th liners... I can't believe how much stock is put into pluggers/4th liners by habs fans.

Mike Bossy said one time that 4th liners prevent you from losing, but you win with Top players...

How about we focus on winning instead ? Replacing Pyatt with White, Desharnais or other marginal players, won't change a thing. So who cares if he's in the lineup or not.

The habs need star players up front and at defense.

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01-03-2011, 12:34 PM
  #24
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He is tremendous on the PK, I'd rather have him than Moen in the line up.

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01-03-2011, 12:38 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
I am tired to talk about him in every thread so I create a poll.
Do you think Pyatt deserve a place in the line-up ?

You know my position, NEVER ! He steal the place of a better player than him. 3 points after 1/2 season. He is minus 5. Can't hit. Can't score. Can't pass. Can't fight. Can't create plays. When I see his name in the line-up I am angree every time...
never!, stone hands, same as Darche, a dime a dozen in NHL, 0 trade value in the new NHL

I would have Lappy or White over them!

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