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Tom Pyatt

View Poll Results: Does Tom Pyatt deserve a place in the line-up ?
Yes 56 49.56%
No 57 50.44%
Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-03-2011, 12:59 PM
  #26
ruski17
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Keep him because he gives a break to players like Pleky and in the future, he can be part of a 4th line shut-down line against top lines. Plus, he's only 23 and a hard worker.

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01-03-2011, 01:05 PM
  #27
Patty Roy
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I would not have him in the lineup.

Sure he's good on the PK, but i think others could be almost as good as he is in that role but contribute much more in other areas.

I would give White his spot in a heartbeat.

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01-03-2011, 01:36 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Patty Roy View Post
I would not have him in the lineup.

Sure he's good on the PK, but i think others could be almost as good as he is in that role but contribute much more in other areas.

I would give White his spot in a heartbeat.
I think folks exaggerate when they say that it is easy to be a good PKer.

Last year for instance, Max Lapierre was on the ice for THREE TIMES as many GA on the PK per minute killed as Tom Pyatt.

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Old
01-03-2011, 03:02 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Moves his feet. Works hard. Do "the little things". Perfect player for Martin. Not great anywhere but will rarely make a mistake that will directly cost you a goal.

I personnally don't agree. With a thinking like that, we'd always be a contender....for 8th spot. At one point, you need to find players who will have 1 great quality and who you will use his strength to your advantage and yes, he's pretty good on the PK....but so are the others. I mean we are not only scored on when he's not on the ice.... Surely, you need the most complete player out there. What strikes me though is that you'll always look at the offensive player and will easily not find him reliable in the defensive zone but rarely will you talk about a defensive player and not find him totally inept in the offensive zone. Funnily enough, you'll also refer to guys like Pyatt as a good 2-way player...sorry but where is the "offensive way" to his game again? Pyatt is to what Gill is on D. 1-way, defensive, fine to have on the PK but at one point to be a better team, you need better players than that all around. At this time he's fine in the role of 12th-13th. The day you want a better team, to upgrade it, you don't want him.
And who was arguably our best defenseman in the playoffs? Hal Gill.

And who was one of our best forwards in the playoffs? Tom Pyatt.

These are the type of guys that play solid minutes all year and then double their intensity come playoff time.

Like I said in another thread, I'd glady take 3 Tom Pyatt's to create my fourth line. Why? Simple. Three Tom Pyatt's would cost you about $1.5M. Right now, our 4th line costs over $1M more. What can you do with an extra $1M? I'm pretty sure you know - hopefully buy a guy who's going to score you some extra points on the top lines.

Seriously tell me what Travis Moen does better? He can hit and fight.. but he's not all that effective at either. Pyatt is better defensively, better on the PK, and makes a lot less mistakes.

Also as far as the PK goes, using Plekanec on it as much as we did last year (maybe also cause of the Olympics) made him mediocre in the playoffs. Nearly everyone here agreed that he looked out of gas. Why not have a guy who can chew up all those minutes, not hurt you defensively, play against other teams better lines?

I'm sorry, but defense helps win games just as much as offense.

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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
I think folks exaggerate when they say that it is easy to be a good PKer.

Last year for instance, Max Lapierre was on the ice for THREE TIMES as many GA on the PK per minute killed as Tom Pyatt.
Bingo. And I'm sure that was probably regular season statistics and not even counting the awesomeness of Pyatt in the playoffs.

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Old
01-03-2011, 03:12 PM
  #30
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He doesnt have a regular spot in this lineup. If he had any offensive punch or a mean streak, then he would probably stand a better chance.

Right now, he's just a real smart player with a stabilizing influence, but he's missing one special ingredient, and thats why he gets scratched every now and then.

The habs are managing him correctly imo. He's an in and out of the lineup guy... a nice spare to have.

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01-03-2011, 03:25 PM
  #31
Whitesnake
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Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
Well, with the parity, being cheap is a good quality.
Clutterbuck, Rupp, they're much more expensive, and we have to take that into consideration.
The guys with an offensive touch are tougher to develop, and are rarely traded, so we have to deal with it.

In our lineup we currently have as offensive players :
Gomez, Cammalleri, Gionta, Plekanec, Kostitsyn, Pouliot, Eller, Pacioretty and Desharnais.

9 guys. More than almost any team in the league i think...
You need some players to eat some icetime (unless you want Plekanec to play more than 25 mins/game ) and help the team in other aspects of the game.
Why defense is not as appreciated as offense ?

He's very reliable for a guy that is only 23. Hard-worker.
When he's on the ice, you know that you should be fine, its not the case for the biggest part of the 4th liners. (Remember Dustin Boyd ?). He dont make stupid plays (again, not an obvious thing), he dont take penalties...(only 2 PIM in 33 games !)
He is a big part of our success in the PK, the best in the league, as he is the most-used forward in the unit.

For a 4th liner, i dont see how anyone could complain about him.
You wanna see some offense ? How this is the main goal of a 4th liner ? Lets talk about the inconsistency of Kostitsyn, the lack of luck of Cammalleri, the struggles of Eller, but Pyatt is paid 500.000$ to play 12 mins/game, help the PK and he is doing that fine.
Not sure where I said that cheap wasn't a good quality....I said "When being cheap is your GREATEST quality...see 2 different things. And yes, I don't pinpoint Pyatt as THE reason why we're struggle, again not sure where I'm doing that, the topic is on Pyatt, and I'm talking about his play. I did say he plays a good PK. Yet, I believe other players are also doing it while bringing something more to the table. No, I don't want Pleks to play 25 minutes but Pyatt isn't necessarily THE NHL perfect solution to not only reduce Pleks ice time AND the NHL perfect solution for the best PK of the league. If so, you wonder why would Martin remove from his lineup such a great player.

So Pouliot is an offensive player? And Eller? And Pacioretty? And Desharnais? Correction: They are targeted as POSSIBLE offensive players that while Pouliot still wonder what kind of player he is, the other 3 are newcomers who still have to build their offensive game despite being young and learning the game. Sorry but as of now, every player you just named, though it does apply to the whole team, does concentrate in doing 1 thing. Not get caught defensively. That's all you hear, that's all what's important. Reason why we suck offensively is because the system is not build to to support that. The day you miss your defensive assignment, you're done. No matter the offensive potential you have.

Why is defense not as appreciated as offense? Where did you take that? Nobody appreciate a good PK? Or defensive assignments? Or cutting the passing lanes or shooting lanes? Or winning your battles? Well, I guess some are just looking for goals, but I'd think that the majority of this board do appreciate. But at one point, with your defensive play, when you're unable to generate anything 5 on 5, being solely a specialist might not cut it. And in the end, even if you think defense isn't appreciate as offense, I'd say that offense is way more under the scrutiny than defense will ever be. We keep hearing how Gomez, Gio, Cammy, Kost aren't scoring but how many times have we debated Pyatt, Moen and Halpern lately? We debate the others every single day, we unfortunately debate Pyatt once and boom...we're way too harsh on him. Sorry but defensive players have it the easiest. And you said it yourself, even though it's much tougher to be creative offensively than defensively....

On a game where your offensive lines can't generate anything, the battles are won with your bottom 2 at even strength. Yes, PK and PP are important. But I will not believe that Pyatt is the only solution we have while he is, and I said it already, doing a good job.

My point is just that the day you stopped talking about how effective he is FOR HIS MONEY, we will stop fighting for 8th spot. Yes, it's all about tons of things. Unfortunately, we cannot blame solely him or solely Price or solely 1 guy. 'Cause if it would be the problem of only 1 guy, I believe 17 more playing great would be able to help the team nonetheless.

Where did I mention it had to be his MAIN goal. A 2-way player has to once in a while brings it offensively. How is once in a while something MAIN?

Again, you mentioned it yourself, for how he is paid, he's OK. Seems that it's not always enough since the coach, so much in love with him, did get him out of this lineup once in a while. But as far as I'm concerned, it is about changing the dynamics of this team. It's about trying to have a better mix of players and that when you have the team we have, trying to bring something different we don't have.

But yes, we have the best PK. We did finish 12th last year and ended up in the 3rd round of the Stanley Cup. We will see how that stat this year will translate in the OVERALL success of the team. 'Cause in the end that's what count. Don't worry though, Pyatt will never be the first one mentioned if we fail to succeed. Price and all of our offensive boys will be the first one named. So like I said, even if that's true that offensive is more appreciated than defense, it is the most bashed as well. Can't have both. The problem though is that if Price can keep it up, we will soon see that the PK might have to do more with the goalie than the players in front of him and if we end up falling in the middle of the pack like last year, you wonder what would be Pyatt's best argument then....

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01-03-2011, 03:31 PM
  #32
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in the NHL, he's easily in the top 15 of the worst guys consistently being penciled in a lineup for long stretches.


He could develop in hamilton, not here.

He's the most overated Pker in the history of the game. He gets way too much credit compared to the guys he plays with on the PK ... ie : plekanec is a milion times a better Pker than him. Pk credit goes to defense/goalie first... but somehow some fans here think we would get significantly weaker without him in the lineup, which is absurd....especially when you consider that a lot of those fans are ''glad'' lapierre is gone.


His 5 on 5 game is hard to watch.


Last edited by THE HOFF: 01-03-2011 at 03:42 PM.
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Old
01-03-2011, 03:48 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by THE HOFF View Post
in the NHL, he's easily in the top 15 of the worst guys consistently being penciled in a lineup for long stretches.


He could develop in hamilton, not here.

He's the most overated Pker in the history of the game. He gets way too much credit compared to the guys he plays with on the PK ... ie : plekanec is a milion times a better Pker than him. Pk credit goes to defense/goalie first... but somehow some fans here think we would get significantly weaker without him in the lineup, which is absurd....especially when you consider that a lot of those fans are ''glad'' lapierre is gone.


His 5 on 5 game is hard to watch.
Well someone above posted stats that last year, Lapierre was on the ice for 3x as many GA per minute on the PK as Tom Pyatt.. so you tell me.

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01-03-2011, 03:59 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Well someone above posted stats that last year, Lapierre was on the ice for 3x as many GA per minute on the PK as Tom Pyatt.. so you tell me.
well you can flash those stats all you want (where are they btw) I don't need them to state that maxime lapierre is an above average PKer in the NHL, and that even if Pyatt is slightly better (he's nowhere near 3x better if that's what you tried to imply with the stats... plenty of variables could explain that other than their actual play.) ... Lapierre's 5 on 5 game is a couple of notches above Tom Pyatt... and that will never change. The gap is a bout to widen, if anything.


Last edited by THE HOFF: 01-03-2011 at 04:08 PM.
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01-03-2011, 04:25 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
And who was arguably our best defenseman in the playoffs? Hal Gill.

And who was one of our best forwards in the playoffs? Tom Pyatt.

These are the type of guys that play solid minutes all year and then double their intensity come playoff time.

Like I said in another thread, I'd glady take 3 Tom Pyatt's to create my fourth line. Why? Simple. Three Tom Pyatt's would cost you about $1.5M. Right now, our 4th line costs over $1M more. What can you do with an extra $1M? I'm pretty sure you know - hopefully buy a guy who's going to score you some extra points on the top lines.

Seriously tell me what Travis Moen does better? He can hit and fight.. but he's not all that effective at either. Pyatt is better defensively, better on the PK, and makes a lot less mistakes.

Also as far as the PK goes, using Plekanec on it as much as we did last year (maybe also cause of the Olympics) made him mediocre in the playoffs. Nearly everyone here agreed that he looked out of gas. Why not have a guy who can chew up all those minutes, not hurt you defensively, play against other teams better lines?

I'm sorry, but defense helps win games just as much as offense.

Bingo. And I'm sure that was probably regular season statistics and not even counting the awesomeness of Pyatt in the playoffs.
Yep. Those 2 were great in the playoffs that we just made by 1 point. Thanks to ups and downs seasons of our goalies, injuries and the great UP of our PP.

As far as spending to get our offensive going, pretty sure that's what we did in the offseason with Gomez and Co and we are where we are offensively....

Travis Moen, geez don't get me started on that one, I'm done with him already but it's a Pyatt thread.

As far as Pleks is concerned, well with or without Pyatt in the lineup, Plekanec is still playing just as many minutes as he was doing in the playoffs. Just checked some games lately with or without Pyatt and Pleks plays around the same amount of minutes. Someboyd else take the load.

Defense wins you game surely. And we've been all defense so far and still are battling for 8th spot mostly thanks to the suckiness of the rest of the conference.

With the structure of this team right now, I have no problem with Pyatt as I mentioned 70 times already. When we'll battle higher up in the standings, I'm just mentioning that I would appreciate to have more physical players that could play the same role he's playing. There are other guys like Pyatt in this league.

Mind you, if you are able to address this grit, size and physical problems elsewhere, I guess we could do with. But a player right now who seems interchangeable like him, well he's just that. And I guess it then comes down to your preference in a player.

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01-03-2011, 04:47 PM
  #36
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I can't stand Pyatt anymore. He's not physical, doesn't have any offensive instinct, doesn't fight, etc... He's only good on the pk. So, to play in the NHL, you only have to be good on the pk? Comon, that's ridiculous.

Put that kid on waiver than send him down, 'cause he will not be picked and recall White.

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01-03-2011, 04:52 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Habbadasher View Post
Was gonna say penalty kill, but Whitesnake is right, Detroit does not have strictly one dimensional players, they have a little something extra.
Drew Miller.

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01-03-2011, 05:40 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Yep. Those 2 were great in the playoffs that we just made by 1 point. Thanks to ups and downs seasons of our goalies, injuries and the great UP of our PP.

As far as spending to get our offensive going, pretty sure that's what we did in the offseason with Gomez and Co and we are where we are offensively....

Travis Moen, geez don't get me started on that one, I'm done with him already but it's a Pyatt thread.

As far as Pleks is concerned, well with or without Pyatt in the lineup, Plekanec is still playing just as many minutes as he was doing in the playoffs. Just checked some games lately with or without Pyatt and Pleks plays around the same amount of minutes. Someboyd else take the load.

Defense wins you game surely. And we've been all defense so far and still are battling for 8th spot mostly thanks to the suckiness of the rest of the conference.

With the structure of this team right now, I have no problem with Pyatt as I mentioned 70 times already. When we'll battle higher up in the standings, I'm just mentioning that I would appreciate to have more physical players that could play the same role he's playing. There are other guys like Pyatt in this league.

Mind you, if you are able to address this grit, size and physical problems elsewhere, I guess we could do with. But a player right now who seems interchangeable like him, well he's just that. And I guess it then comes down to your preference in a player.
I don't have time to reply to all this as I'm heading to work shortly (I'll reply there, if I get a minute), but to be fair to Tommy Pyatt, let's look at last year.

Pyatt only played 11/minutes per game (40 games) during the regular season (5 points, -5). In the playoffs, his ice-time rose by 2 minutes (13/game), he had 4 points, and was just a -1 in only 18 games.

Pyatt may be a little one dimensional (PK/defensive specialist), but look at this. During the regular season last year, he averaged 1:06 minutes on the PK/game. We finished 12th in the regular season (82.8%), yet in the playoffs when Pyatt went up to 2:58/game on the PK, we moved into 3rd (84.5%). This year, with Tommy Pyatt on the PK we're 1st in the NHL (we we're 2nd when he missed a batch of games this past month) with an (87.4%).

That may not seem like a big deal to you (or anyone else), but we're on pace to slash our PK goals by about 10 GA. That's pretty incredible and a huge boost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
I can't stand Pyatt anymore. He's not physical, doesn't have any offensive instinct, doesn't fight, etc... He's only good on the pk. So, to play in the NHL, you only have to be good on the pk? Comon, that's ridiculous.

Put that kid on waiver than send him down, 'cause he will not be picked and recall White.
Well, if that's how you feel, I don't know what to tell you.

Ryan White just came back from a serious injury and really hasn't played up to speed yet. Just saying.

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Old
01-03-2011, 05:42 PM
  #39
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He deserves a spot, but for a team that's lacking goal scoring, he shouldn't be replacing a goal scorer.
How many goal scorers are palying on a 4th line?? If he gets replace it's for a grunt or a scrapper.

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01-03-2011, 05:45 PM
  #40
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The man can skate like crosby, its sickening how alike they look when they skate, but unfortunately he has 0 of the offensive ability or the hands or offensive sense crosby has

but this kid skates better then anyone ive seen

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01-03-2011, 05:48 PM
  #41
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Yes, he is a pretty good PKer, reliable 5 on 5, always give an effort, compete hard and win most of his battles for the puck, looks like a good team player as well, Ive no prob to have Pyatt on the 4th line..

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01-03-2011, 05:56 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Not sure where I said that cheap wasn't a good quality....I said "When being cheap is your GREATEST quality...see 2 different things. And yes, I don't pinpoint Pyatt as THE reason why we're struggle, again not sure where I'm doing that, the topic is on Pyatt, and I'm talking about his play. I did say he plays a good PK. Yet, I believe other players are also doing it while bringing something more to the table. No, I don't want Pleks to play 25 minutes but Pyatt isn't necessarily THE NHL perfect solution to not only reduce Pleks ice time AND the NHL perfect solution for the best PK of the league. If so, you wonder why would Martin remove from his lineup such a great player.
Well, i consider that Pyatt's greatest quality is his defensive game.
Reliable, efficient, even if not flashy.

Playing on the PK without being scored on that much, its not that easy, some other posters were giving stats and numbers to demonstrate that.

He is doing a good job on the PK, he doesnt eat cap space (whereas proven PK specialists are not that cheap), i dont see why is it a big deal if he's playing 60 games/year.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
So Pouliot is an offensive player? And Eller? And Pacioretty? And Desharnais? Correction: They are targeted as POSSIBLE offensive players that while Pouliot still wonder what kind of player he is, the other 3 are newcomers who still have to build their offensive game despite being young and learning the game. Sorry but as of now, every player you just named, though it does apply to the whole team, does concentrate in doing 1 thing. Not get caught defensively. That's all you hear, that's all what's important. Reason why we suck offensively is because the system is not build to to support that. The day you miss your defensive assignment, you're done. No matter the offensive potential you have.
I will say that their respective offensive abilities are above their defensive abilities, and they're all expected to play an offensive role later in their career.
Which that means we are currently not counting on them to play a mistake-free game and giving them difficult assignements, such as playing on a first unit on the PK.
Thats all i was saying, we need somebody to play on the 4th line.
They're not defensively as responsable as Martin would like them to be, so its perfectly understandable if he want a guy he could trust in the defensive aspect of the game.





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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Why is defense not as appreciated as offense? Where did you take that? Nobody appreciate a good PK? Or defensive assignments? Or cutting the passing lanes or shooting lanes? Or winning your battles? Well, I guess some are just looking for goals, but I'd think that the majority of this board do appreciate. But at one point, with your defensive play, when you're unable to generate anything 5 on 5, being solely a specialist might not cut it. And in the end, even if you think defense isn't appreciate as offense, I'd say that offense is way more under the scrutiny than defense will ever be. We keep hearing how Gomez, Gio, Cammy, Kost aren't scoring but how many times have we debated Pyatt, Moen and Halpern lately? We debate the others every single day, we unfortunately debate Pyatt once and boom...we're way too harsh on him. Sorry but defensive players have it the easiest. And you said it yourself, even though it's much tougher to be creative offensively than defensively....
Where ?
Everywhere !

When we are winning, i think its pretty much a safe bet to say that nobody will say that Spacek or Gill was a big part of it, even if they have made nice plays, saved dangerously hot situations etc...

I dont think that being a specialist is not enough.
After all, there is 40 forwards in the league that are playing less than 10 mins/game, without being reliable and also being specialist of their own thing, fighting for instance.

Do you prefer having Pyatt in your 4th line, or lets say, somebody like...Laraque or Boogaard ?

For me, its obvious...

About the treatment of the players, as offense is much more appreciated, its logic that the expectations and hopes are much more higher for the offensive players.

I will say, though, that role-players (especially the ones who are not playing in your team) are very overrated.
They're very often specialists, too, with specific assignements, and they're a part of a team, with the cohesion, the chemistry who may help them to overcome their weaknesses.
You often see in the trade thread, yay, lets try something for that hitter, that grinder, yes, fine, but once they will be here, you could see them crying because he's slow, because he's a liability on the ice, because he doesnt want to etc...






Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
On a game where your offensive lines can't generate anything, the battles are won with your bottom 2 at even strength. Yes, PK and PP are important. But I will not believe that Pyatt is the only solution we have while he is, and I said it already, doing a good job.
He's helping Plekanec and Gomez to rest and have fresher legs while being cheap.
Its not perfect, but its far from bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
My point is just that the day you stopped talking about how effective he is FOR HIS MONEY, we will stop fighting for 8th spot. Yes, it's all about tons of things. Unfortunately, we cannot blame solely him or solely Price or solely 1 guy. 'Cause if it would be the problem of only 1 guy, I believe 17 more playing great would be able to help the team nonetheless.

Where did I mention it had to be his MAIN goal. A 2-way player has to once in a while brings it offensively. How is once in a while something MAIN?

Again, you mentioned it yourself, for how he is paid, he's OK. Seems that it's not always enough since the coach, so much in love with him, did get him out of this lineup once in a while. But as far as I'm concerned, it is about changing the dynamics of this team. It's about trying to have a better mix of players and that when you have the team we have, trying to bring something different we don't have.

Our best player is out for the year. Im sure that with him, we could rock the division, at the very least. (Remember the domination of Vancouver and Boston with him in the lineup ? 7 games only, ) We also have a lot of prospects or at least very young players in the lineup. Pyatt is only 23.

Is Thornton really useful for Boston ? He may have scored 7 goals this year, but honestly, he's more used to score something like 3 goals/year, he fights, sure (but does the team needs a guy like him?), but he's also far from being the smartest and coolest (in the head) guy on the ice, taking stupid penalties (as we could have saw last time we met Boston).

Is John Scott really useful for Chicago ?
We could also talk about Drew Miller (Detroit), Westgarth (LA), McGinn (San Jose), Gordon (Washington) or even somebody like Carcillo...they're playing for very good teams, but, i dont think they're much more "useful" than Pyatt. Every team in the NHL have guys that are in the lineup for one thing only. Not only bubble teams.
For some teams, its the fighting, for others its the toughness, we decided to go in a different direction, and seeing how efficient he is at his job, thats not a bad try.

If we should change something in the dynamic of the team, lets talk about Moen then.
I like him, but he need to see him more, because his goal is not to be a PK player.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
But yes, we have the best PK. We did finish 12th last year and ended up in the 3rd round of the Stanley Cup. We will see how that stat this year will translate in the OVERALL success of the team. 'Cause in the end that's what count. Don't worry though, Pyatt will never be the first one mentioned if we fail to succeed. Price and all of our offensive boys will be the first one named. So like I said, even if that's true that offensive is more appreciated than defense, it is the most bashed as well. Can't have both. The problem though is that if Price can keep it up, we will soon see that the PK might have to do more with the goalie than the players in front of him and if we end up falling in the middle of the pack like last year, you wonder what would be Pyatt's best argument then....
Price has not been stellar during the last month, our PK is still #1.
During the 4 games when Pyatt had to sit, we give up 4 goals SH...
My only problem with the bashing of Pyatt is the fact that if we have to replace him, its very likely with an average grinder or a fighter, and that would be a huge mistake as he's not average in what he is doing.

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01-03-2011, 05:57 PM
  #43
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useless player

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01-03-2011, 06:21 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Pyatt may be a little one dimensional (PK/defensive specialist), but look at this. During the regular season last year, he averaged 1:06 minutes on the PK/game. We finished 12th in the regular season (82.8%), yet in the playoffs when Pyatt went up to 2:58/game on the PK, we moved into 3rd (84.5%). This year, with Tommy Pyatt on the PK we're 1st in the NHL (we we're 2nd when he missed a batch of games this past month) with an (87.4%).

That may not seem like a big deal to you (or anyone else), but we're on pace to slash our PK goals by about 10 GA. That's pretty incredible and a huge boost.
Our goaltending on the PP this year compared to last is a much bigger factor than Pyatt in the stats that your trying to use. Pyatt isn't the sole reason for our success on the PK. I'd argue that Pleks is a bigger factor than Pyatt.

The fact that almost nobody agrees with you should give you a hint that maybe your over valueing him just a little bit.

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01-03-2011, 06:43 PM
  #45
Whitesnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
Well, i consider that Pyatt's greatest quality is his defensive game.Reliable, efficient, even if not flashy.
I have to say, I don't particularly agree with everything you're saying....and I'm not going to go through each and everything but you do bring interesting points. I did and I do see why some would find him needed. As a matter of fact, I never did mention he was a waste of space. I just think we can do better. I believe quite soone we will be able to make Ryan White what we wish Pyatt would do. And we will see how indispensable the org. think he is. While right now he has no leverage so chances are he'd get 1-year contract after another, at one point, if they really think he's a must, they should give him a longer term contract. We will see how he will developed if ever. We will see how they'll pencil him in the org.

The only thing I will like to mention in regard to your post is that I never wanted him to be replaced by a goon who can't play. I would always refer as gritty guys who will hit the opposition. I'd probably take a Hendricks instead. A McCormick, yes a Thornton, or a Matt Bradley who I like very much. I would have gone with Asham during the UFA period. Or other players as well. Who will win their battles often (I know, he won them all last game, not sure if it's always like that...), that will give more bite to this team. Again, this is a Pyatt topic, not a Moen one and I stated my case about Moen. But at one point, when you try to change somewhat your identity, replacing 1 guy by a tough one will not change it. I mean, I think that's what they thought when they got Moen, finally Moen took the Martin mold and since he's not playing in a tough team anymore, he plays the fancy game.

Listen, I'm not rooting for somebody to replace him. Just that I could do without and I don't think he's so indispensable but....Kudos. You have to post more so we'd disagree politely....

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01-03-2011, 07:25 PM
  #46
SNM87
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dustin boyd, david desharnais or ryan white could do just as a good job but also bring some offensive ability and grit.

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01-03-2011, 07:33 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Our goaltending on the PP this year compared to last is a much bigger factor than Pyatt in the stats that your trying to use. Pyatt isn't the sole reason for our success on the PK. I'd argue that Pleks is a bigger factor than Pyatt.

The fact that almost nobody agrees with you should give you a hint that maybe your over valueing him just a little bit.
It seems Martin agrees with me and he's the coach of a winning hockey team.

No one agreed with me about Halak. No one agreed with me about Desharnais. No one agreed with me about Ryan White (though most do now). I'm used to it.. and I'be been right & wrong in the past everyone is. I stick by my player evaluations though.

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01-03-2011, 07:35 PM
  #48
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He might be useful if the team could dress all 23 players on the roster in the same game and there were penalties to klll. Otherwise, a rabbit has no place in a game played mainly by alpha male wolves.

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01-03-2011, 07:35 PM
  #49
Rutabaga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I have to say, I don't particularly agree with everything you're saying....and I'm not going to go through each and everything but you do bring interesting points. I did and I do see why some would find him needed. As a matter of fact, I never did mention he was a waste of space. I just think we can do better. I believe quite soone we will be able to make Ryan White what we wish Pyatt would do. And we will see how indispensable the org. think he is. While right now he has no leverage so chances are he'd get 1-year contract after another, at one point, if they really think he's a must, they should give him a longer term contract. We will see how he will developed if ever. We will see how they'll pencil him in the org.

The only thing I will like to mention in regard to your post is that I never wanted him to be replaced by a goon who can't play. I would always refer as gritty guys who will hit the opposition. I'd probably take a Hendricks instead. A McCormick, yes a Thornton, or a Matt Bradley who I like very much. I would have gone with Asham during the UFA period. Or other players as well. Who will win their battles often (I know, he won them all last game, not sure if it's always like that...), that will give more bite to this team. Again, this is a Pyatt topic, not a Moen one and I stated my case about Moen. But at one point, when you try to change somewhat your identity, replacing 1 guy by a tough one will not change it. I mean, I think that's what they thought when they got Moen, finally Moen took the Martin mold and since he's not playing in a tough team anymore, he plays the fancy game.

Listen, I'm not rooting for somebody to replace him. Just that I could do without and I don't think he's so indispensable but....Kudos. You have to post more so we'd disagree politely....
Can we do better ?
Pyatt is not worse than the players i mentioned earlier, and they're all playing in very solid teams. We can go on for every team, usually the guys in the roster for the 12-13th forward spot are not the most skilled anyway.

If he could pot something like 5 goals/year, it will be "already" very good for a 4th liner. We dont have to expect a huge contribution (points-wise, but not only) for a 4th liner, a lot of ppl seems to forget that.
(25 players last year scored less than 7 points with at least half of the games played...i dont think any is as good as Pyatt in his "speciality". So for a 12th forward, not that bad at all)

Each time got several players under a 1M$, here just to eat icetime and try to bring energy.

After that, its a matter of team identity, we agree, which style do you wanna give etc...

Having Lapierre instead of Pyatt (example) could give us 7 goals more, but if we get scored on 9 times, what's the point ?

The staff doesnt seem to be a fan of pugilists, and we have players that could bring physicality. Or are supposed to. Moen, obviously, but also guys like Eller, Pouliot and Darche could help in that too.
The answer is more in their hands than Pyatt's.

He is 23, he could improve...i dont understand why we shouldnt give him some time, whereas he's solid enough in other parts of the game.

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01-03-2011, 07:39 PM
  #50
Teufelsdreck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VAN-HAB View Post
never!, stone hands, same as Darche, a dime a dozen in NHL, 0 trade value in the new NHL

I would have Lappy or White over them!
I beg your pardon, but how many goals does Darche have this season? I haven't looked it up but he already has as many or more than Pyatt would have in a career year.

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