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Tom Pyatt

View Poll Results: Does Tom Pyatt deserve a place in the line-up ?
Yes 56 49.56%
No 57 50.44%
Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-03-2011, 08:24 PM
  #51
Hackett
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Originally Posted by habitants19 View Post
dustin boyd, david desharnais or ryan white could do just as a good job but also bring some offensive ability and grit.
Boyd brings more skill, desharnais is an unknown at this level, and white is definitely more gritty.

What pyatt is good at is being safe and reliable defensively, and not making mistakes. If that's the job, then I trust pyatt more than the players mentioned.

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01-03-2011, 08:38 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
I think folks exaggerate when they say that it is easy to be a good PKer.

Last year for instance, Max Lapierre was on the ice for THREE TIMES as many GA on the PK per minute killed as Tom Pyatt.
I never said it was easy to be a good PKer...i just feel that others could do the job almost as well as Pyatt while contributing more to the team in other aspects of the game.

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01-03-2011, 10:11 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by THE HOFF View Post
in the NHL, he's easily in the top 15 of the worst guys consistently being penciled in a lineup for long stretches.


He could develop in hamilton, not here.

He's the most overated Pker in the history of the game. He gets way too much credit compared to the guys he plays with on the PK ... ie : plekanec is a milion times a better Pker than him. Pk credit goes to defense/goalie first... but somehow some fans here think we would get significantly weaker without him in the lineup, which is absurd....especially when you consider that a lot of those fans are ''glad'' lapierre is gone.


His 5 on 5 game is hard to watch.
I agree, Tom Pyatt is a bum. I can't beleive he is consistently penciled into our lineup. Comparing Travis Moen, Lapierre ect to him is ridiculous. They are both >>>>>>>>> then Pyatt.

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01-03-2011, 10:14 PM
  #54
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Hes a fourth liner, that when you put on the ice, you are not scared that he will blow defensive assignments and hes a great pker. He isn't physical which sucks, but some people are undervaluing him abit.

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01-03-2011, 10:18 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by TheBuriedHab View Post
Hes a fourth liner, that when you put on the ice, you are not scared that he will blow defensive assignments and hes a great pker. He isn't physical which sucks, but some people are undervaluing him abit.
He has no value. The Habs couldn't give him away.

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01-03-2011, 10:38 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
He has no value. The Habs couldn't give him away.
I agree, not sure what JM sees in him.

Not sure why people instead he's reliably defensively, he been a - player his whole NHL career. And it's not like he plays a shutdown role, he's a - player playing against the other team's 4th line slugs. Our 4th is brutal, and he's a big reason why, Halpern was doing great before he started to get paired up with Pyatt.

2009/2010 40 gms 5 pts -5
2010 playoffs 18 gms 4 pts -1
2010/2011 33 gms 3 pts -5

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01-03-2011, 10:43 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by dcal64 View Post
I agree, not sure what JM sees in him.

Not sure why people instead he's reliably defensively, he been a - player his whole NHL career. And it's not like he plays a shutdown role, he's a - player playing against the other team's 4th line slugs. Our 4th is brutal, and he's a big reason why, Halpern was doing great before he started to get paired up with Pyatt.

2009/2010 40 gms 5 pts -5
2010 playoffs 18 gms 4 pts -1
2010/2011 33 gms 3 pts -5
Being only a -5 for Pyatt is actually pretty good since Halpern, Moen and Pyatt will create virtually no goals. That means they have been on the ice for a small amount of goals. I'm not the biggest fan of Pyatt either but I don't think he needs to get hated on. If our top 3 lines actually score, they should be a very good shutdown line.

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01-04-2011, 04:39 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcal64 View Post
I agree, not sure what JM sees in him.

Not sure why people instead he's reliably defensively, he been a - player his whole NHL career. And it's not like he plays a shutdown role, he's a - player playing against the other team's 4th line slugs. Our 4th is brutal, and he's a big reason why, Halpern was doing great before he started to get paired up with Pyatt.

2009/2010 40 gms 5 pts -5
2010 playoffs 18 gms 4 pts -1
2010/2011 33 gms 3 pts -5
Funny seeing that the Pyatt - Moore - Lapierre line was likely our best line throughout most of the playoffs.

Of the forwards who played a regular shift in the playoffs last year, Pyatt was 3rd in +/-, even at -1.

Pyatt is a forward who is responsible, doesn't hurt us, and picks it up even more in the playoffs.

He made the Canadian World Junior rosters for a reason - he does what he's asked and does it well.

The kid isn't even 24 yet. He has less than a full season of NHL experience. We talk about Martin being impatient with lines.. most of us posters are just as impatient with rookies and youngsters. No wonder we think of every player as a failure.

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Old
01-04-2011, 05:55 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Funny seeing that the Pyatt - Moore - Lapierre line was likely our best line throughout most of the playoffs.
Wow, that's quite the exaggeration there.

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01-04-2011, 07:14 AM
  #60
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Wow, that's quite the exaggeration there.
Oh yeah, what trio was better?

Cammalleri, obviously. His line was mediocre though.

Gionta, maybe. His line was mediocre outside of him though.

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01-04-2011, 07:26 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Oh yeah, what trio was better?

Cammalleri, obviously. His line was mediocre though.

Gionta, maybe. His line was mediocre outside of him though.
I don't see the need to really discuss this. Cammalleri+Plekanec alone put up 30 points to that line's 13, while drawing tougher defensive assignments. Kostitsyn put up the same amount of points as Lapierre and Pyatt combined, and was a -1--equal to Pyatt's +/-.

That Moore trio was 9th, 10th and 11th in scoring on the team. It's tough to claim they were the best line, especially considering they didn't draw the top defensive assignments.

That was the third best line which, coincidentally, was also their ice time.

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01-04-2011, 08:53 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
I don't see the need to really discuss this. Cammalleri+Plekanec alone put up 30 points to that line's 13, while drawing tougher defensive assignments. Kostitsyn put up the same amount of points as Lapierre and Pyatt combined, and was a -1--equal to Pyatt's +/-.

That Moore trio was 9th, 10th and 11th in scoring on the team. It's tough to claim they were the best line, especially considering they didn't draw the top defensive assignments.

That was the third best line which, coincidentally, was also their ice time.
That is completely your opinion. They were the best line, IMO.

They were relentless on the forecheck. The battled hard. They rarely gave up a goal against. They were strong on the puck. They were fast. They created chances. They had 3 GWG, which was more than any line with the exception of line #1.

They scored 9 goals at ES. They combined for a +/- of -2. Their production rate for goals at ES was approximately 73 minutes per goal. In comparison the 1st line (14 goals) was 53 minutes per ES goal with a +/- of -11, the 2nd line (split Pouliot/Moen in half, 8 goals total for line) produced a goal at ES every 99 minutes with a combined +/- of -13.

I stand by my opinion that the 3rd line was our best line. Could we have won as many games without Cammalleri and Gionta? No. But with the way the 3rd line played, they weren't replaceable either. They were fantastic night in and night out. Period.

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01-04-2011, 08:58 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Funny seeing that the Pyatt - Moore - Lapierre line was likely our best line throughout most of the playoffs.

Of the forwards who played a regular shift in the playoffs last year, Pyatt was 3rd in +/-, even at -1.

Pyatt is a forward who is responsible, doesn't hurt us, and picks it up even more in the playoffs.

He made the Canadian World Junior rosters for a reason - he does what he's asked and does it well.

The kid isn't even 24 yet. He has less than a full season of NHL experience. We talk about Martin being impatient with lines.. most of us posters are just as impatient with rookies and youngsters. No wonder we think of every player as a failure.
Cmon Natey this is all absurd. He has no areas to improve on. He has no talent.

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01-04-2011, 09:05 AM
  #64
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I have no problem with him being on the team, but in order to have a long term NHL future, he'll need to start putting up a few points. It's all good to be a good PKer and hard worker, but unless you hit hard or fight, you also need to chip in 8-10 goals most years or you are easily replaceable. I think at some point he might get replaced by White or Conboy.

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01-04-2011, 12:18 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Cmon Natey this is all absurd. He has no areas to improve on. He has no talent.
Right. I'm sure me and you could jump in to do the job with no problem whatsoever.

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01-04-2011, 12:19 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
That is completely your opinion.
Nope, it's also factual. You can't 'stand behind opinions' that are so overtly wrong. You keep claiming they produced some astronomical level of offense--well, they combined for around 13 points in 19 games. Three players did. Whoopdeedoo. They didn't play the toughest matchups, so of course their +/- was fine. It was largely up against 3rd and 4th liners.

I can't have the opinion that Moen has been the best player this season because he's the 8th most productive forward (when he really ought to be roughly the 8th most productive forward, and he's not taking the toughest defensive assignments, and hasn't really been exceptional at anything). It's just silly.

Further, obviously Montreal didn't feel particularly attached to Moore, as they let him walk. And dumped Lapierre less than halfway into the next season. And have kept Pyatt as a healthy scratch frequently enough. It wasn't a magical line that couldn't be replaced.

To say they were 'fantastic night in and night out' is also a gross exaggeration.

Also, to your ES stats: Moore, Lapierre and Pyatt were 6th-8th among forwards in points in ES.

To the +/-: of course they fared better than the top two lines, who absorbed the tougher matchups.

The only argument you have is not a state-line, but that you 'think' they were fantastic, and were relentless on the forecheck (hurrah.).

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01-04-2011, 12:24 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Nope, it's also factual. You can't 'stand behind opinions' that are so overtly wrong. You keep claiming they produced some astronomical level of offense--well, they combined for around 13 points in 19 games. Three players did. Whoopdeedoo. They didn't play the toughest matchups, so of course their +/- was fine. It was largely up against 3rd and 4th liners.

I can't have the opinion that Moen has been the best player this season because he's the 8th most productive forward (when he really ought to be roughly the 8th most productive forward, and he's not taking the toughest defensive assignments, and hasn't really been exceptional at anything). It's just silly.

Further, obviously Montreal didn't feel particularly attached to Moore, as they let him walk. And dumped Lapierre less than halfway into the next season. And have kept Pyatt as a healthy scratch frequently enough. It wasn't a magical line that couldn't be replaced.

To say they were 'fantastic night in and night out' is also a gross exaggeration.

Also, to your ES stats: Moore, Lapierre and Pyatt were 6th-8th among forwards in points in ES.

To the +/-: of course they fared better than the top two lines, who absorbed the tougher matchups.

The only argument you have is not a state-line, but that you 'think' they were fantastic, and were relentless on the forecheck (hurrah.).
Yeah... except its not a fact. It's an opinion. And you'll have to go through and find me stats to prove all your rebuttals, or as far as I'm concerned, it holds no merit. That's not a throw against you or your opinion, but without cold hard facts I could say anything and pretend its a fact. I give stats which support my theory, where-as I'm getting nothing in return to continue the debate except and opinion.

And I also didn't say it couldn't be replaced ever. I meant during the playoffs - and they play together for the majority of the team. You can think they weren't a huge factor to us winning. I disagree.

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01-04-2011, 12:42 PM
  #68
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I think Pyatt would be perfect for a team like TB, Washington or Pittsburgh, a team with offensive powerhouses on their first 2 lines and that also have some size on them and that only expect from 4th liners to be reliable defensively.

For us that lack scoring power massively, the fact that when he's on a line you're nearly sure that you will never see it score a goal hurts. I don't think he's useless as some do, the problem is that having 0 offense and no toughness (I mean, he can take punishment, but won't dish any) means he's not compensating for anything the Habs lack. He's good on the PK, true... but half our team or more is good on the PK, and as some others posted it's not as if our PK collapsed when he was out of the line-up.

And no matter how reliable defensively as he is, when you put him with linemates that might create a turn-over for no reason he still can't necessarily prevent being scored on.

He's fine right now, but imo he's not fulfilling a role that the Habs need, and since I see 4th-liners as role players I had to vote no. It's true that he is young and has room to improve some, but at the same time I don't see anything from him that makes me think he will find offense or toughness someday.

Not angry to see him in, but I think he is overused and I get tired at times of seeing offensive players being benched for making a defensive mistake when you see players like Pyatt and Moen not only getting ice time but sometimes even plugging the first 2 lines just because they are reliable defensively even though they kill the offensive potential of their line.

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01-04-2011, 12:43 PM
  #69
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To Lapierre's credit, he got very little PK time last season so the 3x more GA could be a product of tired squads, rusty positions, etc.

To Pyatt's discredit, the Montreal Canadien's PK starts and ends with Price and the defense. Halak was amazing last year in the playoffs against the Caps and it was all on him and the GG duo that shut down the Caps.

The Habs would look far better with some Rupp's on the bottom 6. They have no size, no tenacity and other than Moen (the most useless in terms of ability vs. salary hit) no winning experience. Which is what really burns me about JM's marginalization of Lapierre, he had size, he hit the most out of the entire team AND he was a homeboy! Why play Darche/Halpern/Pyatt/Moen over him, ever?

I trust Gauthier to bring in some gritty players and make this team a tough one again. Trade for Chris Neil!

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01-04-2011, 12:50 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Yeah... except its not a fact. It's an opinion. And you'll have to go through and find me stats to prove all your rebuttals, or as far as I'm concerned, it holds no merit.

For a line to be above and beyond, or 'fantastic', they must exceed the expectations placed upon their line in multiple statistical categories, or be a great shut-down line. Well, they weren't a shutdown line, and they were third most productive in scoring among among the team's lines.

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01-04-2011, 12:52 PM
  #71
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No, not at all. It was clear for anyone watching the games what the matchups were, and there are stats out there easily accessible for you to see it. I don't need to prove anything. Rather, you have not put forth any stats other than to say your third line guys were the third most productive line at ES, which is performance-as-expected, and certainly nothing fantastic.

It is indeed a fact that the third line was third most productive, and that they did not face tough matchups.

It is also your opinion, which stands in contradiction with facts, that the third line was anything beyond what was expected. The only exceptional portion of the third line's stats was that the line was clutch--definitely an important feature.

For a line to be above and beyond, or 'fantastic', they must exceed the expectations placed upon their line in multiple statistical categories, or be a great shut-down line. Well, they weren't a shutdown line, and they were third most productive in scoring among among the team's lines.
The stats are easily accessible? Point me to them then, or there's not point in posting a rebuttal. If they were that easy to access, you'd have posted them already.

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01-04-2011, 12:53 PM
  #72
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The stats are easily accessible? Point me to them then, or there's not point in posting a rebuttal. If they were that easy to access, you'd have posted them already.
Just take a look at when the WSH/PIT/PHI goals were scored and who was on the ice. It's simple. Why must I do your heavy lifting for your distorted views?

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01-04-2011, 01:49 PM
  #73
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Cmon Natey this is all absurd. He has no areas to improve on. He has no talent.
That's not true. His shot is weak, but he can carry the puck and pass the puck just fine for a bottom-6 forwarad.

Most importantly, he has superior ability to read a play and break it up. This is an instinct, a talent if you will, and he is far better at it than anyone on the team save Plekanec and Gionta.

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01-04-2011, 02:15 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Funny seeing that the Pyatt - Moore - Lapierre line was likely our best line throughout most of the playoffs.

Of the forwards who played a regular shift in the playoffs last year, Pyatt was 3rd in +/-, even at -1.

Pyatt is a forward who is responsible, doesn't hurt us, and picks it up even more in the playoffs.

He made the Canadian World Junior rosters for a reason - he does what he's asked and does it well.

The kid isn't even 24 yet. He has less than a full season of NHL experience. We talk about Martin being impatient with lines.. most of us posters are just as impatient with rookies and youngsters. No wonder we think of every player as a failure.
Natey, it isn't just you who thinks Pyatt had a very good playoff last year. Virtually every commentator from every network said the same.

I know folks are upset we aren't scoring more, but blaming a defensive specialist for that is silly.

Where's the blame for Halpern, who has slowed considerably offensively? Where is the criticism of Moen, who is overpaid 100%? Where is the frustration with Eller, who creates virtually nothing out there despite occasional nice dangles and a hit or two?

The truth is, if we want more offence, we need to look at our top 6 forwards, Subban
and Spacek to step it up. Hamrlik and Wisniewski are producing fine.

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01-04-2011, 02:53 PM
  #75
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Sometimes I think yes other times no to be honest. But I say now with Lapierre gone it only makes sense that he does. I'm more on the fence about him than Darche to be honest who I think clearly does deserve a spot on our team.

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