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Adrian Aucoin's Trade Value?

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06-24-2004, 06:25 AM
  #1
sketchykg
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Adrian Aucoin's Trade Value?

Adrian Aucoin has had 2 exceptional seasons with the Islanders and 1 good one. His stats the past 3 years:

81gms 12-22-34 +23 62pims
73gms 8-27-35 -5 70pims
81gms 13-31-44 +29 54pims

As well, under the current rules, Aucoin is a free agent next year, since he's going to get arbitration, and get a $4 million plus deal for a one year contract and likely be gone after next season for a compensary draft pick. I doubt a new CBA will raise the free agency age.

Given his upcoming contract and impending free agency, how much trade value does he have?

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06-24-2004, 07:22 AM
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the thing is--after the new CBA--he might be an UFA after his contract is up--he is 30 right now--born in 73 I believe?--so if thie CBA is like other ones(where ufa's age goes down by one year) Aucoin will be free. Also, the money he makes, depending on the CBA he could take a large chunk ouot of a teams budget.

But as a player--he has yet to proove he is the go to guy. Like the other big names on the NYI D--the get big money--but no fallow through

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06-24-2004, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark
the thing is--after the new CBA--he might be an UFA after his contract is up--he is 30 right now--born in 73 I believe?--so if thie CBA is like other ones(where ufa's age goes down by one year) Aucoin will be free. Also, the money he makes, depending on the CBA he could take a large chunk ouot of a teams budget.

But as a player--he has yet to proove he is the go to guy. Like the other big names on the NYI D--the get big money--but no fallow through
Aucoin turns 31 on July 3. He'll be a free agent regardless next season.

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06-24-2004, 08:05 AM
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that was sort of my point when it comes to his value--he and his agent are eyeballing ufa and any team that would want him better be ready to get burned

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06-24-2004, 08:57 AM
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I think stats don't dell the story on Aucoin, his value is far more higher than his ability to provide offense

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06-24-2004, 09:31 AM
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Is there anyway Janne Niinimaa could be traded?

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06-24-2004, 09:38 AM
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Ill give you guys dunham and poti for aucoin and a zamboni

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06-24-2004, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinto
Is there anyway Janne Niinimaa could be traded?

Unlikely because he's the youngest and cheapset of the top 4,the furthest from unrestricted free agency.

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06-24-2004, 10:08 AM
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Ahhh shucks. I was actually more interested in him then Aucoin/Hamrlik


Last edited by Pinto: 06-24-2004 at 10:20 AM. Reason: typo
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06-24-2004, 10:10 AM
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what NYI need for Aucoin ..
i would offer Hainsey and Hossa for Aucoin ....

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06-24-2004, 10:12 AM
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Pinto great avatar

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06-24-2004, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
I think stats don't dell the story on Aucoin, his value is far more higher than his ability to provide offense
well with the expection of the Time-On-The-Ice-Per-Game-Stat !
but I agree

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06-24-2004, 10:19 AM
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I'll give you Cloutier :lol

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06-24-2004, 12:01 PM
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The only way the Isles will get fair value for Aucoin is if they hang onto him until the deadline, and then move him to a contender.

I think his likely big award at arbitration time is going to disuade potential suitors more than anything else, at least at this point.

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06-24-2004, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
The only way the Isles will get fair value for Aucoin is if they hang onto him until the deadline, and then move him to a contender.

I think his likely big award at arbitration time is going to disuade potential suitors more than anything else, at least at this point.
You know this is probably going to irk you Isles fans but I think Aucoin has lesss trade value than Sopel at this point. Age difference, massive salary difference, not much difference in performance. That's gotta be a tough pill to swallow.

If you want to make a decent comparison on the two look at Sopel's last four years compared to Aucoin at the same age. Most vancouver fans will tell you there are a lot of similarities defesively about these players, though there offensive attributes are very different.

Brent Sopel
BD: Jan 7, 1977
2003-2004 Salary: $875 K
Ht: 6-1 Wt: 225 Shts: R

2003-04 Vancouver NHL 80 10 32 42 +11 173 5.78
2002-03 Vancouver NHL 81 7 30 37 -15 167 4.19
2001-02 Vancouver NHL 66 8 17 25 +21 116 6.90
2000-01 Vancouver NHL 52 4 10 14 +4 10 57 7.02

1999-00 Vancouver NHL 18 2 4 6 +9 12 11 18.18


Adrian Aucoin
BD: July 3, 1973
2003-2004 Salary: 3.25 M
Ht: 6-2 Wt: 210 Shts: R


2003-04 NY Islanders NHL 81 13 31 44 +29 213 6.10
2002-03 NY Islanders NHL 73 8 27 35 -5 175 4.57
2001-02 NY Islanders NHL 81 12 22 34 +23 232 5.17
2000-01 Total Van/TB NHL 73 4 24 28 +5 159 2.52
1999-00 Vancouver NHL 57 10 14 24 +7 126 7.94
1998-99 Vancouver NHL 82 23 11 34 -14 174 13.22
1997-98 Vancouver NHL 35 3 3 6 -4 44 6.82
1996-97 Vancouver NHL 70 5 16 21 0 116 4.31

1995-96 Vancouver NHL 49 4 14 18 +8 85 4.71


Last edited by ginner classic: 06-24-2004 at 12:47 PM.
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06-24-2004, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginner
You know this is probably going to irk you Isles fans but I think Aucoin has lesss trade value than Sopel at this point. Age difference, massive salary difference, not much difference in performance. That's gotta be a tough pill to swallow.

Not much difference in performance? Sorry, my friend, but that is way off. They might have put up similar offensive numbers but Sopel isn't half the player that Aucoin is in his own end. At best, Sopel is below average defensively. Its not even a close comparison.

I don't know about the trade values because of the $ and contract issues, but you are vastly overstating Sopel's appeal to other teams. And, I don't see how Sopel's market value would be a "tough pill" for Islander fans to swallow. I don't think any Islander fans would even care about the comparison between the two players.

I hate to say it, but I think you are being a little bit bitter here because the Nucks moved Aucoin before he hit his prime.

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06-24-2004, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Not much difference in performance? Sorry, my friend, but that is way off. They might have put up similar offensive numbers but Sopel isn't half the player that Aucoin is in his own end. At best, Sopel is below average defensively. Its not even a close comparison.

I don't know about the trade values because of the $ and contract issues, but you are vastly overstating Sopel's appeal to other teams. And, I don't see how Sopel's market value would be a "tough pill" for Islander fans to swallow. I don't think any Islander fans would even care about the comparison between the two players.

I hate to say it, but I think you are being a little bit bitter here because the Nucks moved Aucoin before he hit his prime.
well we have been having this debate for two years and I don't see it ending until Sopel is traded. Having watched the entirety of both players careers (only five Islanders games recently per year) I can tell you the similarities in the defesive maturity of the players at the same age is frightening. Sopel and Aucoin had the exact same problems in the defensive zone at the same age. Sopel is very underrated in his ability to eliminate along the boards and hits exactly the same way Aucoin used to.

We spent so much time trying to covince non-vancouver fans about how good Aucoin was only to be told he was a one trick pony. Well we were right then and we are right now about Sopel. Why are there trade values similar? Simple. Same offensive performance, same development path defensively, four years younger and one quarter the salary. That makes for equivalent trade value.

EDIT: Updated comparative stats on last post...have a peek


Last edited by ginner classic: 06-24-2004 at 12:49 PM.
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06-24-2004, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginner
well we have been having this debate for two years and I don't see it ending until Sopel is traded. Having watched the entirety of both players careers (only five Isels games Max recently) I can tell you the similarities in the defesive maturity of the players at the same age is frightening. Sopel and Aucoin had the exact same problems in the defensive zone at the same age. Sopel is very underrated in his ability to eliminate along the boards and hits exactly the same way Aucoin used to.

We spent so much time trying to covince non-vancouver fans about how good Aucoin was only to be told he was a one trick pony. Well we were right then and we are right now about Sopel. Why are there trade values similar? Simple. Same offensive performance, same development path defensively, four years younger and one quarter the salary. That makes for equivalent trade value.

What "debate" are we having? Canuck fans keep using the "just like Aucoin" label to apply to Sopel and nobody else seems to care. I can tell you as an Islander fan, I have never had even a vague interest in Sopel. Why do you feel the need to discuss Sopel's abilities and potential market value every time Aucoin's name comes up? As I said above, I suspect that you feel a little bitter about Aucoin's development after he left the Nucks, and want to convince us that Sopel is just as good to make yourself feel a little better.

The two players may or may not have equivalent trade value. Personally, I don't think that is the case, but that is besides the point. Its really hard to say because the two situations are different and the comparison here is fairly meaningless.

The poster who started this thread wanted to know what Aucoin's market value is. We don't care if Sopel is worth more or less that has little to do with the thread. The Nucks trade Aucoin for Cloutier. He went on to develop elsewhere. Deal with it, and stop being so bitter.

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06-24-2004, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
What "debate" are we having? Canuck fans keep using the "just like Aucoin" label to apply to Sopel and nobody else seems to care. I can tell you as an Islander fan, I have never had even a vague interest in Sopel. Why do you feel the need to discuss Sopel's abilities and potential market value every time Aucoin's name comes up? As I said above, I suspect that you feel a little bitter about Aucoin's development after he left the Nucks, and want to convince us that Sopel is just as good to make yourself feel a little better.

The two players may or may not have equivalent trade value. Personally, I don't think that is the case, but that is besides the point. Its really hard to say because the two situations are different and the comparison here is fairly meaningless.

The poster who started this thread wanted to know what Aucoin's market value is. We don't care if Sopel is worth more or less that has little to do with the thread. The Nucks trade Aucoin for Cloutier. He went on to develop elsewhere. Deal with it, and stop being so bitter.
Geez....take it easy Darth...you having a bad day or something? Well WE, meaning you and I, (obviously you don't remember me though I have been posting here since 1997...actually that kind of hurts my fragile feelings) have been having Sopel debates from time-to-time over the past two years when his name had been mentioned in trade proposals. We Canuck fans make these proposals frequently only to have 'the voice of reason' .....whoemever that may be, come and say that Sopel has very little trade value and is a one trick pony (same things we heard about Aucoin at the same age....difference being Sopel is better at the same age). If WE (collective conscious of the Vancouver fans) are bitter, it is from the constant beratement of our understanding of the comparative between these two players, and what that may mean for their trade value at the same age, now, or in the future. If or when these guys get moved on to other teams, I can promise you that is is going to be a hot topic.

Am I bitter that Aucoin was traded when he was? No. Am I bitter about the return? Yes, of course. It was clear to most fans that the guy had great potential. I think most of us are fairly surprised at how much he has improved in his own zone, but there was no doubt he was going to be at least a top 4 d-man for the duration of his career. Given comparable trades made at the same time for Denis and Jiggy, it was clear the the Nux overpaid dramatically at the time to land Cloutier. It still irritates me, but I am not devestated by Aucoin's development at all.

Relevance to this thread? Simple. Player trade values are going to swing violently depending on the nature of contracts like no other point in history. A guy who has proven himself like Aucoin will not have the value he would have had even one year ago. Nobody can say where the market is going to settle in, and unless a team that knows it will have cap room (think Florida) is willing to make a move I cannot even see Aucoin or any other 4 million dollar player being shopped for a decent return right now. I do find it a little amusing that we have full circle to the point where a player like Sudsy could have comparable value to a player that was easily in the top 10 at his position this year....not to mention it is the player Sudsy has most often been compared to, especially in the minds of Vancouver fans.

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06-24-2004, 03:34 PM
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Ok, what I was trying to get at is a trade of Aucoin for Miro Satan, which is sort of going on on the Isles board.

If the Sabres would accept it, I'd do it.

After Aucoin's arbitration, the salaries should be fairly close. Aucoin is 1 year from free agency, Satan 2 years under the current system.

Is this trade crazy from and Islander standpoint? Satan gives us a skilled left shot to use on the Power Play that we have been looking for and was last filled by Kip Miller.

That said, if we could sign Aucoin to a long term deal, I wouldn't do it.

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06-24-2004, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sketchykg
Ok, what I was trying to get at is a trade of Aucoin for Miro Satan, which is sort of going on on the Isles board.

If the Sabres would accept it, I'd do it.

After Aucoin's arbitration, the salaries should be fairly close. Aucoin is 1 year from free agency, Satan 2 years under the current system.

Is this trade crazy from and Islander standpoint? Satan gives us a skilled left shot to use on the Power Play that we have been looking for and was last filled by Kip Miller.

That said, if we could sign Aucoin to a long term deal, I wouldn't do it.
Not trying to be a killjoy Sketchykg, but some of us on the NYI board reject it out of hand. Forget about the value of the two players. Let's talk some real basic realitie$. Why would a team (NYI) that is potentially, according to some reports, faced with dumping one of its higher salaried dmen even consider taking on more salary in a trade? Satan's salary is more than Aucoin's.

I personally am of the opinion that Satan is not the type of player NYI needs by a longshot (Yashin and Kvasha already have the market cornered on Long Island with regard to skilled, yet terribly moody, inconsistent, and unreliable forwards. Last thing the team needs is more.)

Regardless of how one feels about the talent exchange, from an economic standpoint, this is a non-starter.


Last edited by Trottier: 06-24-2004 at 10:21 PM.
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06-24-2004, 04:45 PM
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I agree. Ever since Alan Hahn reported the Islanders were looking to acquire Miro Satan two years in a row, Isles fans have had a hard on for him. They can't seem to realize that he is not the kind of player we need here, hence the reason Milbury has not gone out and acquired him.

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06-24-2004, 04:47 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginner
Relevance to this thread? Simple. Player trade values are going to swing violently depending on the nature of contracts like no other point in history. A guy who has proven himself like Aucoin will not have the value he would have had even one year ago. Nobody can say where the market is going to settle in, and unless a team that knows it will have cap room (think Florida) is willing to make a move I cannot even see Aucoin or any other 4 million dollar player being shopped for a decent return right now. I do find it a little amusing that we have full circle to the point where a player like Sudsy could have comparable value to a player that was easily in the top 10 at his position this year....not to mention it is the player Sudsy has most often been compared to, especially in the minds of Vancouver fans.

I apologize for being so harsh, Ginner. But, frankly, the connection between Sopel and Aucoin exists only in the minds of Nuck fans. They're both late round picks who and the label of offensive dman when then came in (although, frankly, I've never though of Aucoin as a high-end offensive talent) but that is where it ends. I don't see any hints of Aucoin's defensive game in Sopel's play, and I see very little similarity between the styles of those two players. The fact that Aucoin developed into a good (if somewhat overrated) dman means zero for Sopel's potential develoment. Personally, I doubt that Sopel will every be very effective defensively, and I don't think that Aucoin is nearly as mobile as Sopel or as creative offensively.

Anyway, I'm still scratching my head over your comment that Sopel's market value = Aucoin's and that would be a "bitter pill for Islander fan's to swallow." Why would any Islander fan care what Sopel's market value is? Again, the association between those players exists only for Nucks fans. The typical Islander fan couldn't care less what Sopel's market value is.

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06-24-2004, 04:50 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslesJack
I agree. Ever since Alan Hahn reported the Islanders were looking to acquire Miro Satan two years in a row, Isles fans have had a hard on for him. They can't seem to realize that he is not the kind of player we need here, hence the reason Milbury has not gone out and acquired him.



Preach on my brother!


I couldn't possibly agree with you on all points.

The interest in Satan reminds me a lot of the interest many Islander fans had in Yashin years ago. Back then, I argued that a one-dimesional player would not be what the team needed. I think the same holds true for Satan.

I'm with Trottier in the thinking that we'd be better off using those $ to try and sign Chris Simon, or a player of that ilk.

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06-24-2004, 04:54 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I apologize for being so harsh, Ginner. But, frankly, the connection between Sopel and Aucoin exists only in the minds of Nuck fans. They're both late round picks who and the label of offensive dman when then came in (although, frankly, I've never though of Aucoin as a high-end offensive talent) but that is where it ends. I don't see any hints of Aucoin's defensive game in Sopel's play, and I see very little similarity between the styles of those two players. The fact that Aucoin developed into a good (if somewhat overrated) dman means zero for Sopel's potential develoment. Personally, I doubt that Sopel will every be very effective defensively, and I don't think that Aucoin is nearly as mobile as Sopel or as creative offensively.

Anyway, I'm still scratching my head over your comment that Sopel's market value = Aucoin's and that would be a "bitter pill for Islander fan's to swallow." Why would any Islander fan care what Sopel's market value is? Again, the association between those players exists only for Nucks fans. The typical Islander fan couldn't care less what Sopel's market value is.
It was just an observation. I totally disagree on your assesment of Sopel Vs. Aucoin. At the same age, Sopel is just as good defensively (not really sure why he is knocked in this regard at all on these boards, his greatest failing is ill advised attacks, not poor awareness or execution in his own end) and better offensively.

To get back to the original question, Aucoin's trade value is probably worth the 7th pick in this draft and a player like Novak from Florida (maybe a bit more from NY's side). The bitter pill in that is that a top pairing d-man of Aucoin's capability and age should never be worth that little. The fact that Sopel could draw a similar return after the abuse that he puts up with underscores where the market has gone.

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