Alberts:
Torres: $1M
Volpatti: $0.612
Alberts: $1.050
Rome: $750K Schneider for Weiman: save $400K (don't know if Schneider has hit waiver eligibility or not)
Keep in mind all of this is with Salo coming back, so you can actually drop two d-men if required.
Alberts + Volpatti + Rome/Schneider would get it done using a combination of non-waiver elligibility and LTIR. There are a lot of scenarios we get under now...unless Rypien comes back.
I'd be against dealing Schneider.
While I'm not of those in the looney bin that want him as the starter, if Luongo does get hurt - I don't think the Canucks chances of success in the post-season automatically go out the window with Schneider there. As far as I know, Schneider is subject to waivers - and I'm be surprised if he doesn't get claimed.
Wrong. Why move Salo when we can fit everyone in? You know, by waiting until the playoffs..... and then the cap isn't in place anymore.....?
Yeah but who wants to wait that long, I think Imo, gillis/gilman probably has multiple scenarios that they could play this out and "try to keep both salo/kb. But most of you guys don't even like the idea of waiving players like alberts/rome//torres or even trading sammy/raymond? as much as i would like to have depth on d, i think it's better off gillis goes to salo for permission to waive his ntc and get something back which clearly helps with cap space" to improve other areas of their team. This Team are in a Win Now Mode, maybe add a few more pieces hopefully a vetern s.c winner to the lineup experince is greatly appriceted.
It may be coincidence, but with Salo travelling and skating with the team, and Rypien and Parent's salaries being dumped within a week, it looks like Gillis / Gilman are starting to make cap room for some sort of move.
It need not be immediate. Salo is still saying his return is not imminent. Even if Salo were cleared to play, the team can send him on a conditioning assignment to Manitoba for 10 days.
If may also all be positioning and signalling. If Gillis is contemplating a major trade, he has more leverage if other GMs think he has other options.
Yeah but who wants to wait that long, I think Imo, gillis/gilman probably has multiple scenarios that they could play this out and "try to keep both salo/kb. But most of you guys don't even like the idea of waiving players like alberts/rome//torres or even trading sammy/raymond? as much as i would like to have depth on d, i think it's better off gillis goes to salo for permission to waive his ntc and get something back which clearly helps with cap space" to improve other areas of their team. This Team are in a Win Now Mode, maybe add a few more pieces hopefully a vetern s.c winner to the lineup experince is greatly appriceted.
I'm sure Gillis & Salo are prepared to wait that long. The playoffs start in three and a half months and Gillis has shown he's extremely patient. Waiving Alberts, Torres and everyone gets rid of the depth that Gillis worked so hard to create.
Nothing is going to happen and Salo will join the team in the playoffs. NBD.
You only need to remove really 1.5 pieces. Volpatti moves down to the minors without waivers, waive Rome (he becomes the #8 D-man) and you only have to move 0.5M more.
Downgrading Schneider isn't enough to cover that gap, and having Schneider is the difference between being in a dogfight with Colorado and leading the league (assuming other backups would be roughly .500 pts %). Schneider also makes Luongo better and will make him less tired towards the playoffs (so he becomes MORE important as we approach the playoffs).
Unless the injury/reconditioning actually takes Salo within a few weeks of playoffs, I don't think he'll be delayed until then. That means aside from Rome (unimportant 8th D), Gillis needs to waive/move one more player.
Alberts:
Torres: $1M
Volpatti: $0.612
Alberts: $1.050
Rome: $750K
Schneider for Weiman: save $400K (don't know if Schneider has hit waiver eligibility or not)
Keep in mind all of this is with Salo coming back, so you can actually drop two d-men if required.
Alberts + Volpatti + Rome/Schneider would get it done using a combination of non-waiver elligibility and LTIR. There are a lot of scenarios we get under now...unless Rypien comes back.
All horrible moves.
Should injuries occur you'd be screwed; no way to bring players up because you're right at the cap. When you deal away your depth, you end up in the same situation as Chicago is this season.
The Canucks need to clear about $2.5 million to bring Salo back. They can do this buy moving a larger salary, or waiting around for someone else to go on LTIR.
Just found a strange way to actually work the numbers with Rome being the only player put on waivers. It puts the team to 6 defencemen and 12 forwards, so injuries are a concern.
Waive Rome.
Send down Volpatti and Bolduc.
Play one spare defenceman as a 4th liner.
Shift Tambellini or Glass to center.
Obviously there's the risk of having what happened to Calgary a few years back striking, but aside from the seedy LTIR loophole, it seems to be the only way to keep all the key players.
Once we make it to playoffs, we can recall players as is necessary.
Downgrading Schneider isn't enough to cover that gap, and having Schneider is the difference between being in a dogfight with Colorado and leading the league (assuming other backups would be roughly .500 pts %). Schneider also makes Luongo better and will make him less tired towards the playoffs (so he becomes MORE important as we approach the playoffs).
What makes you think a reasonably capable backup for the Canucks would have a .500 points %? Raycroft was .633 % last year behind an inferior Canucks team and if you look at the backups of other top teams most have excellent records as well.
Schneider has been fantastic, but he hasn't been as good as his W/L record indicates as he's gotten a ton of goal support in his starts. The team's averaged 4.22 G/G when he's started and hasn't once scored fewer than 3 goals. Pretty much any decent goalie will put up an excellent record with that kind of support. Luongo's 15-1-1 when the Canucks score at least 3 goals, as an example. Or looking at other backups in games where their team scores 3+ goals:
Again, not to take away from Schneider's play, because it's been great; however his record is really nothing special, even among backup goalies, given the goal support he's gotten night in and night out.
If we could get Raycroft, I'd be all for it. Raycroft is really good, and could be a starter on at least a handful of teams. Unfortunately, there's no other goalie who really should be a starter but got a bad rep playing on Toronto that we can sign for that piddly amount.
Even in games where Schneider hasn't been great, he's been better than most backups and certainly better than what's available. He's also stolen a few games. If we don't have Schneider, we'll lose more games when using a backup, and Luongo will play more.
None of these are available. Several are either split-time or have taken over as starters. None of them have a cheap enough salary to really matter for this discussion either.
If we could get Raycroft, I'd be all for it. Raycroft is really good, and could be a starter on at least a handful of teams. Unfortunately, there's no other goalie who really should be a starter but got a bad rep playing on Toronto that we can sign for that piddly amount.
as well, the Leafs were picking up half his tab (*and* corresponding cap hit) while he was a Canuck.
Interesting, this does multiply the options, although one suspects that had the NHL not granted the cap exemption we would have soon seen Rypper on waivers.
So with these developments I still don't see a way to bring Salo onto the active roster without making a (fairly) major move or having someone else go down injured (seriously enough to enable LTIR). Essentially we need to find 1.8 or so in salary somewhere.
Seeing as that number already assumes a 22 man roster (Volpatti and Rome being the spares) in the wake of Parent being waived I don't see a way to get that without making a significant move. There's really no way we roll with a 20 man roster, it's far too risky, even 21 is pushing it. Any combination of 2 of [Rome/Bolduc/Volpatti/Glass/Hansen] simply does not get you there. The "fringiest' way I can see to do it is to waive or trade Alberts and Rome, and replace Volpatti with someone from Manitoba earning slightly less and run a 21-man roster from the trade deadline on. One injury at defense though would mean Baumgartner draws in though, which sort of defeats the whole purpose of having more depth. I guess you can do Alberts and Hansen, but Hansen's been playing very well recently and that's a big loss, but anyone on our top 3 lines would be.
EDIT: Ok, I think I sort of lost my train of thought at the end there.
TL;DR: If we are willing to risk a 21 man roster then Alberts plus either Rome or Hansen gets you under the cap.
That would mean Salo would have to be rusty come play off time.
Can we risk that?
Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception Conditioning Loan. A Player
who is on the Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception as set forth in Article 50
may, with his consent, during the term of such Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness
Exception (but in no event during the first fourteen (14) calendar days and six (6) NHL
Games), be Loaned on a Conditioning Loan (the "Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness
Exception Conditioning Loan") for a period not to exceed up to the longer of six (6) days
and three (3) games, solely for the purpose of determining whether the Player is fit to
play. If the Club determines that it needs more time to assess the Player's fitness to play,
the Club may file a written request by facsimile with the Commissioner's Office, with a
copy to the NHLPA, in accordance with Exhibit 3 hereof, to extend the Loan for an
additional two (2) games.
Nucks last game Sat, 9 Apr 2011
Salo could be
a) sent to the moose on the 15th march (8 homes games in a row 15th-30th))
b) home games, play 16th, 18th and 20th
c) 2 extra (also home games) 25th and 27th
(or 18th 20th 25th + 27th 29th)
That's 5 home games for the Moose, so no travel for Salo, reasonable break between games.
Keep him on LTIR for the rest of the season just to make sure he's feeling 100 percent. It is a risk but if he's not right we still have a working team without him.
I think once we get to the trading deadline, we can safely waive Alberts. He won't be claimed because he is a UFA, and if I understand it correctly, any team picking up a player on waivers after the TD can't use him that season. That clears another $1.05M.
We are now down to $756k.
We could take a similar chance with Rome after the deadline. His cap hit is $750, but he is under contract for the next year, so there is a slight chance that someone could claim him for next year.
That get's us within $6,000.
If we have any injuries, since Alberts and Rome were both waived after the trade deadline, they can also be recalled.
I think once we get to the trading deadline, we can safely waive Alberts. He won't be claimed because he is a UFA, and if I understand it correctly, any team picking up a player on waivers after the TD can't use him that season. That clears another $1.05M.
We are now down to $756k.
We could take a similar chance with Rome after the deadline. His cap hit is $750, but he is under contract for the next year, so there is a slight chance that someone could claim him for next year.
That get's us within $6,000.
If we have any injuries, since Alberts and Rome were both waived after the trade deadline, they can also be recalled.
That won't work. Players cannot be assigned the AHL after the trade deadline unless they were recalled post trade deadline.
Quote:
13.12
(j)A Player may be Loaned to a club of any league affiliated with the League at any time up to 3:00 p.m. New York time of the fortieth (40th) day immediately preceding the final day of the Regular Season (the "Trade Deadline"). Following this period only the Player or Players who have been Recalled during such restricted period under Article 13.12(l) or 13.12(m) may be Loaned back to the member club of the affiliated league from which they were Recalled.
Now here's 13.12(l):
Quote:
13.12(l) During the period following 3:00 p.m. New York time of the fortieth (40th) day immediately preceding the final day of the Regular Season no Player may be Recalled from Loan to a club of any league affiliated with the NHL, except that:
(i) A Club may exercise four Recalls from a club or clubs of any league affiliated with the NHL, of Player(s) listed on its own Reserve List.
(ii) Players may be Recalled under Article 13.12(m).
(iii) Players may be Recalled upon completion of the regular season and playoff schedule of the club to which they were Loaned.
And 13.12(m) refers to Emergency Recalls where a player is called up due to the team not being able to field a full roster (assuming there's enough cap space to call that player up).
So if you put those clauses together, the only way a player can be sent down post deadline is if a) he was one of the 4 allowable recalls post trade deadline [13.12(l)(i)], or b) he was recalled as an emergency callup [13.12(m)].
Also, guys are subject to re-entry waivers even after the trade deadline so even if Rome could be sent down or recalled, another team could pick him up for $375K next season with the Canucks picking up the balance.
Let's get rid of valuable contributors to the team so we can get some old porcelain d-man coming off a serious injury. Even if Salo is healthy he will not be the player he was before and even if somehow he is, he will still be the most injury prone player in the NHL. Hopefully he will do what's best for the team and just sit this year out.
If we could get Raycroft, I'd be all for it. Raycroft is really good, and could be a starter on at least a handful of teams. Unfortunately, there's no other goalie who really should be a starter but got a bad rep playing on Toronto that we can sign for that piddly amount.
Even in games where Schneider hasn't been great, he's been better than most backups and certainly better than what's available. He's also stolen a few games. If we don't have Schneider, we'll lose more games when using a backup, and Luongo will play more.
None of these are available. Several are either split-time or have taken over as starters. None of them have a cheap enough salary to really matter for this discussion either.
My point was more that any NHL caliber backup goalie is going to have a pretty stellar record in games where his team scores 3 goals. You contended that other backups would be .500 (thus putting the Canucks down with Colorado), but that's very questionable given the Canucks' offense.
Not that I think Schneider should be traded, but that's not what the other poster was even talking about. He was suggesting using Schneider's waiver ineligibility to send him down the the Moose for the last month of the season to save money to get Salo back in. I'm not sure why you're talking about trading for a goalie or who's available, as the poster clearly suggested temporarily swapping Weiman and Schneider to allow the Canucks to keep most of their roster intact. Those other goalies were merely brought up to illustrate that any goalie in the NHL playing behind a decent team will have a .750+ points % when they get 3 GF every game.
That won't work. Players cannot be assigned the AHL after the trade deadline unless they were recalled post trade deadline.
Okay - I had it backwards. I was thinking that only players sent down after the deadline could be recalled. That changes things a bit. We still need to move $1.806M to activate Salo.
We are currently carrying 13 forwards and 7 defensemen. If we activate Salo, we won't be going 13 and 8, someone would have to go. This would mean trying slip someone through waivers (prior to the deadline) at a time when other teams are not likely to pick them up.
Obviously there is some risk here. But if you think Salo is ready to play, Ballard and Salo as your bottom pairing (from the TD to end of season) is better than Ballard and Alberts or Rome. Once the playoffs start, you can add Alberts, Rome, Parent, etc.
Rome = less effective defender, but lower salary and signed for next season. Would have to clear waivers.
Alberts = a better all round defender and earns more as a result. waiver eligible.
Volpatti = depth forward. Not waiver eligible, but his salary doesn't clear enough space.
If we can get within a few thousand of the cap, another technique to clear space is to send anyone who is not waiver eligible (Volpatti, Bolduc and Schneider I think) down to the moose during the all star break and recall them immediately following the break. Between the 3 of them, their daily cap hit is almost $10,000/day.
Okay - I had it backwards. I was thinking that only players sent down after the deadline could be recalled. That changes things a bit. We still need to move $1.806M to activate Salo.
We are currently carrying 13 forwards and 7 defensemen. If we activate Salo, we won't be going 13 and 8, someone would have to go. This would mean trying slip someone through waivers (prior to the deadline) at a time when other teams are not likely to pick them up.
Obviously there is some risk here. But if you think Salo is ready to play, Ballard and Salo as your bottom pairing (from the TD to end of season) is better than Ballard and Alberts or Rome. Once the playoffs start, you can add Alberts, Rome, Parent, etc.
All those guys would be subject to re-entry waivers. Alberts would likely go unclaimed, but teams might take a shot at getting Rome or Parent next season for half price. That would leave the Canucks with dead cap space next season and reduced depth this year.
Quote:
Rome = less effective defender, but lower salary and signed for next season. Would have to clear waivers.
Alberts = a better all round defender and earns more as a result. waiver eligible.
Volpatti = depth forward. Not waiver eligible, but his salary doesn't clear enough space.
If we can get within a few thousand of the cap, another technique to clear space is to send anyone who is not waiver eligible (Volpatti, Bolduc and Schneider I think) down to the moose during the all star break and recall them immediately following the break. Between the 3 of them, their daily cap hit is almost $10,000/day.
That would only work if Salo was activated prior to the All Star Break. Teams cannot save up cap space while using LTIR exemptions, so sending them down would have no net benefit unless he was already activated. Also, teams must always have 2 goalies on the roster, so the Canucks would have to call up Lack or Weiman to replace Schneider, further negating any possible savings.
All those guys would be subject to re-entry waivers. Alberts would likely go unclaimed, but teams might take a shot at getting Rome or Parent next season for half price. That would leave the Canucks with dead cap space next season and reduced depth this year.
That would only work if Salo was activated prior to the All Star Break. Teams cannot save up cap space while using LTIR exemptions, so sending them down would have no net benefit unless he was already activated. Also, teams must always have 2 goalies on the roster, so the Canucks would have to call up Lack or Weiman to replace Schneider, further negating any possible savings.
No, they'll likely grab everyone, especially if it weakens our roster.
No, they'll likely grab everyone, especially if it weakens our roster.
I don't know, I think picking up a guy with an expiring contract would be seen as a pretty low move. Not because it weakens the Canucks, but because you'd be depriving a player of a chance to play in the playoffs and potentially play for a contract next season. For guys with years left on their deals (Parent and Rome) it's a different story, but I could definitely someone with an expiring contract clearing waivers, especially since the 50 contract limit is still in effect for the playoffs.
I don't know, I think picking up a guy with an expiring contract would be seen as a pretty low move. Not because it weakens the Canucks, but because you'd be depriving a player of a chance to play in the playoffs and potentially play for a contract next season. For guys with years left on their deals (Parent and Rome) it's a different story, but I could definitely someone with an expiring contract clearing waivers, especially since the 50 contract limit is still in effect for the playoffs.
If it's the Canucks & anybody in the playoffs and we have an injury and need a call up, they will definitely steal our player if he expires that year. As far as I'm concerned, that's not even a discussion because I know all teams would do it if it's going to screw us over.
If it's the Canucks & anybody in the playoffs and we have an injury and need a call up, they will definitely steal our player if he expires that year. As far as I'm concerned, that's not even a discussion because I know all teams would do it if it's going to screw us over.
Didn't happen to the Flames when they put Eriksson through re-entry waivers prior to their series with Chicago in 2009. Not that he's great, but he was still the best of their limited options. Having him claimed would have left their already decimated defense in an even worse situation, but no one bothered.
I doubt some team is going to pay the waiver fee and screw over a player just to prevent the Canucks from having slightly better depth. Can you provide a single example of this happening?
