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Old
01-05-2011, 12:26 AM
  #76
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[QUOTE=mczerkawski21;29982609]
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthVanCanuck View Post
Believe it or not, but teams like the Oilers or the Islanders would definately considering moving their lottery pick for a package built around Schneider. QUOTE]

Nope Islanders definitely pass. Believe it or not the Islanders are deep with goalie prospects. Id be more willing to trade 1 than to aquire another(not until DP comes back). Before the injury/trades There was a surplus of goalies in Bridgeport leading to a 3 goalie rotaion.
AHL (pre injury/trade)
Poulin-A top goalie in the Q last year
Koiskinen-31st overall 09
Nathan Lawson-Solid Backup
Sweeden
Anders Nilsson-3rd round 09

No need for another when you got atleast 2 with number 1 potential.
I think it's safe to say that Schneider is clearly a better goalie than the 3 you have in your current system.

That is one thing that is overlooked in this thread. Schneider is one of the best goalie prospects in the world. He has absolutley dominated every league he has played in up to this point in his careers.
Now in his first NHL season he's putting up steller numbers (i know i know the canucks are a stacked team...but just watch Schneider play..he oozes talent).
Seems like some posters in here see Schneider and sort of group him as a typical run of the mill decent goalie prospect.
Schneider is up there with Campbell, Bernier, Rask etc

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01-05-2011, 12:33 AM
  #77
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I think it depends if other teams believe schneider can be a #1 backstopper in this league.

Mike Smith was once the centrepiece that brought back brad richards.

Like many has suggested, the Canucks should hold on to schneider until the off-season.

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01-05-2011, 12:39 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by ahmon View Post
I think it depends if other teams believe schneider can be a #1 backstopper in this league.

Mike Smith was once the centrepiece that brought back brad richards.

Like many has suggested, the Canucks should hold on to schneider until the off-season.
I **** myself when Smith brought back B. Richards. That was horrible for the caps.
There were like 2 other rumored offers floating around that involved Richards on the move and of all the crap i heard...the deal that actually happened was the ugliest.
Smith was was a 5th or 6th round pick that never really even lit the AHL on fire. He had average numbers on a pretty good Dallas team.

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01-05-2011, 12:41 AM
  #79
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This thread is sort of pointless, why would a cup contender disrupt chemistry and move their insurance policy in goal? Answer, they wouldn't.

The Market for goalies is not very high, so why move a valuable asset just to make a trade. Keep him, and his value will only increase over time. Eventually the Canucks will be forced to move him, but why now when he's playing well, and his market value is lower then his actual value to the team?

Keep Schneider, eventually people will realize (if they haven't already) that he's a legit talent, then move him if the deal is right.

p.s. Roli was just traded for a former 1st round pick dman, I would think a young goalie with a top pedigree would be worth at least that much to a few teams
solid post. agree with pretty much everything there.

having Schneider as an incredibly capable backup fits with Gillis' approach in the same way that we have a wealth of NHL-capable d-men. insurance and the ability to keep everyone fresh and healthy.

after this season, i could see them dangling Schneider a bit to see what's out there, but in the meantime it makes far more sense to keep him. especially when the team is already rolling and has no apparent glaring weaknesses to fill on the roster, and no cap space to add anyway.

and it also doesn't make a whole lot of sense to take a draft pick, develop them carefully for a number of years, only to flip them for another pick and have to start over again.

and the Roloson comparison is peculiar, but useful. if a stopgap vet like Roli is worth a former 1st round d-prospect, i'd certainly agree that a young potential superstar would be worth a solid 1st round talent, and likely a d-man or a skilled forward with size. it's just a matter of waiting until it makes sense to move Schneider, and someone else decides to pony up.

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01-05-2011, 12:45 AM
  #80
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2nd rounder + mid level prospect at best

Unproven goalies aren't worth that much so the people saying a 1st rounder are not close

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01-05-2011, 03:58 AM
  #81
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I have seen enough of Schneider and at this point the question is not if he can be a starter but if he can be a star and one of the top goalies in the league.

He has played exceptionally well and arguably better then Luongo who has played good this year also. He has always been a starter and excelled everywhere he played, he was a first round pick and the potential has been seen in him for years and he has only improved since than. I can guarantee that he is a better goalie then Roloson right now and has been playing better, TBay would be in a better position right now with Schneider than Roli and thats not even looking at the future.

In anycase Vancouver I can almost guarantee isnt even listening to offers no matter what they are, they at the cap limit, the top team in the league, have Schneider singned for one more year for cheap after which he still is a RFA and their ready to try and go as deep in the playoffs as they can.

Personally I dont think he gets traded this year or next year, I doubt the Canucks are interested in trading him until his contract is up and he is a RFA again. The team got lucky with signing Lack who has shown tremendous potential and has taken over the starting job and been one of the top goalies in the AHL, they will give Lack the rest of the season and all of next season to play down there im sure while having Schneider play at the same time with the Canucks and provide the most reliable and affordable back up the team could ask for. If Lack repeats this year next year and progresses further and Schneider does the same then at that point the Canucks will begin to explore options of trading him as he will be due for a raise and Lack will be ready for possible NHL action.

The number of teams interested next year will determine his value, if infact Canucks do look at moving him by then then they will trade him for the best offer during the offseason. His value to the team is now, once they cant keep him due to contract demands then they will move him and the difference in value between getting a 4rnd pick or a 2rnd pick or a 1st rnd pick and prospects and who know what else is going to be minimal compared to what he brings and imo will continue to bring to the team this year and next year including during the playoffs.

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01-05-2011, 06:02 AM
  #82
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The OP asked for Schneider's value, and yet people are commenting "oh why would the canucks trade him" blah blah blah.

people need to learn how to read and understand.

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01-05-2011, 08:27 AM
  #83
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there is absolutely no way the Devils would trade Parise for an unsigned Ehrhoff, Schneider, and a late first

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01-05-2011, 09:20 AM
  #84
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Schneider is getting both over valued and under valued in this thread. Like c'mon, Parise? Give your head a shake.

Now, just because there are experienced goalies that will sign for cheap in the market today doesn't mean a team won't pay fair value for Schneider. Look how well the Turco, Niemi, and Ellis signings worked out; these guys have a 3.00 GAA each, with about a 0.900 S%.

With Schneider, it's medium risk high reward. Sure, ya give up a decent return but you get a guy who could end up being your franchise goalie for YEARS to come. That's much better than an aging veteran who you might squeeze another year out of. Schneider is as about as close to a sure thing as a goalie prospect can be: he's been a starter and dominated at every level, can handle a max workload, is still young, former 1st rounder, former AHL goalie of the year, and is now showing he can do it at the NHL level. With goalies like that you HAVE to take a chance on them when they're "unproven" because when they're proven, you won't have a chance.

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01-05-2011, 09:55 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SelKesler View Post
in the off-season

Ehrhoff, Schneider, Schroeder and our 1st
for
Parise

re-sign Bieksa to a 1-2 year deal

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Parise - Kesler - Raymond

Edler - Ballard
Hamhuis - Bieksa

drool...
Ehrhoff would have to be a sign and trade or New Jersey passes. Frankly, they pass either way. If I were a betting man. The Devils would want Edler back with Schineider, a first and whatever else. To be entirely honest. I would not do your original trade from a Vancouver perspective. Parise is immensely talented however the Nucks have scoring down to a fine art. Our lackluster defense has always been our Achilles' heel. That and subpar goaltending in the playoffs. We have finally addressed both issues. Why would we break apart a winning combination?

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01-05-2011, 12:08 PM
  #86
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[QUOTE=lefty2time;29983400]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mczerkawski21 View Post

I think it's safe to say that Schneider is clearly a better goalie than the 3 you have in your current system.

That is one thing that is overlooked in this thread. Schneider is one of the best goalie prospects in the world. He has absolutley dominated every league he has played in up to this point in his careers.
Now in his first NHL season he's putting up steller numbers (i know i know the canucks are a stacked team...but just watch Schneider play..he oozes talent).
Seems like some posters in here see Schneider and sort of group him as a typical run of the mill decent goalie prospect.
Schneider is up there with Campbell, Bernier, Rask etc
In no way am I doubting he is better than anyone in our system. Im just saying I don't see the value of the Islanders giving up the assests it would take when there are already numerous goalie options in the system. OT example but lets picture if Boston were to try and aquire Cody Hodgson-totally hypothetical- Is he better than Spooner and Caron? Yes but it wouldnt be worth it cause they have other options. Kind of a wierd example but it kinda relates.

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01-05-2011, 03:38 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Bourne View Post
Ehrhoff would have to be a sign and trade or New Jersey passes. Frankly, they pass either way. If I were a betting man. The Devils would want Edler back with Schineider, a first and whatever else. To be entirely honest. I would not do your original trade from a Vancouver perspective. Parise is immensely talented however the Nucks have scoring down to a fine art. Our lackluster defense has always been our Achilles' heel. That and subpar goaltending in the playoffs. We have finally addressed both issues. Why would we break apart a winning combination?
Our best defenseman, one of the best goalie prospects in the world AND a 1st round pick?

Talk about OVERPAYMENT! Parise is REALLY good but not enough to gut the team apart.


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01-05-2011, 03:42 PM
  #88
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The thing is that Schneiders value to the team is him being on the team now, being as good of a backup as you can get in the NHL and being signed for cheap for one more year. When he gets traded, and he will eventually(just not now) he will be traded not to get maximum value but because the Canucks cant pay him what he is worth and give him the games he deserves. The Canucks could trade him to the highest bidder between now and next summer and maybe get a better deal than anyone could think of. But then they would lose because they wouldent have the best backup possible for this year and next.

Once they have to trade him they will for the best offer, like Halak though that offer will im sure be lower then what they could get if they shopped him or listened to offers all the time during his contract.

Doesnt matter what they get for him because the way its looking even by next summer that 1st round pick they invested in to him is going to have payed of already for the team, any return will be a bonus.

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01-05-2011, 03:42 PM
  #89
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Young backups with the potential to be a starter don't have a lot of value (see: Josh Harding).

It's only once they steal the starting job that the team either trades the original starter (Vokoun, Lehtonen, etc) or trades the young starter (Halak, etc).

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01-05-2011, 03:48 PM
  #90
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Young backups with the potential to be a starter don't have a lot of value (see: Josh Harding).

It's only once they steal the starting job that the team either trades the original starter (Vokoun, Lehtonen, etc) or trades the young starter (Halak, etc).
And again you havent watched Schneider during his career or now, you obviously dont know the player he is. He is not a potential starter, he is a potential star. Comparing Josh Harding to him, or a UFA Vokoun situation, or a injury plagued Lehtonen up for a raze and need of a scenario change is very different. The Halak scenario is similar but even with him he was not a starter his whole career, he was not always a star, and people always questioned if he was the real deal(personally I thought so for a long time now as he just absolutely dominated consistently for a while and just reaked confidence), Schneider was always expected to be a starter and to be a star and I doubt as many people question what he is doing as they did Halak. But as far as return I would think it will be very similar next summer and like Halak could be higher if they were willing to trade him during the season to the highest bider(which they wont be because they are ready to win just like the Habs placed higher value on their playoffs then a pick or two or slighly better prospect).

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01-05-2011, 03:52 PM
  #91
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Less then Canucks fans think and more then other teams fans.

Middle first round pick (10 - 20) or a second tier prospect (think C. Hamilton) and a 2nd.

I can't see Vancouver moving into the top 3 with Schneider involved unless they are willing to part with a Edler (which would be way too much. Edler is freakin unreal).

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01-05-2011, 05:44 PM
  #92
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And again you havent watched Schneider during his career or now, you obviously dont know the player he is. He is not a potential starter, he is a potential star. Comparing Josh Harding to him, or a UFA Vokoun situation, or a injury plagued Lehtonen up for a raze and need of a scenario change is very different. The Halak scenario is similar but even with him he was not a starter his whole career, he was not always a star, and people always questioned if he was the real deal(personally I thought so for a long time now as he just absolutely dominated consistently for a while and just reaked confidence), Schneider was always expected to be a starter and to be a star and I doubt as many people question what he is doing as they did Halak. But as far as return I would think it will be very similar next summer and like Halak could be higher if they were willing to trade him during the season to the highest bider(which they wont be because they are ready to win just like the Habs placed higher value on their playoffs then a pick or two or slighly better prospect).
carey price is a potential star, schneider is a backup who has done well in lesser leagues. his potential isnt worth the pick u drafted him with, thats the nature of goaltending prospects. hes 24 and has developed patiently but comparing him to halak who proved he could steal playoff games from better teams(something even luongo hasnt done) and expecting that kind of value is ludicrous. hes doing well so far but dont get ahead of things

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01-05-2011, 06:55 PM
  #93
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who proved he could steal playoff games from better teams(something even luongo hasnt done)

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01-05-2011, 06:58 PM
  #94
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Schneider has produced great this year, but for a team to give him the #1 goalie job because of just this start would not be advisable. The Canucks should also keep him for great depth at the position at least until the end of this season.

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01-05-2011, 07:44 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Colin Whites Eye View Post
i think youre out of your mind to think youre getting a high first rounder for a goalie prospect
THIS

Schneider is probably the most overated player in hockey right now, totally insulated playing behind one of, if not the best team in hockey.He plays behind the highest paid goaltender who bears all the attendant pressure and none falls on him.

Buyer Beware, in this cocoon, you have the easiest opportunity to excel, anyone paying a premium for such a player runs the risk of looking extremely foolish when the player suddenly has to play with the weight of real world expectations

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01-05-2011, 07:51 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
THIS

Schneider is probably the most overated player in hockey right now, totally insulated playing behind one of, if not the best team in hockey.He plays behind the highest paid goaltender who bears all the attendant pressure and none falls on him.

Buyer Beware, in this cocoon, you have the easiest opportunity to excel, anyone paying a premium for such a player runs the risk of looking extremely foolish when the player suddenly has to play with the weight of real world expectations
Hes the back up for a contender IN Canada.... that is far more pressure then in most American towns. He was Goalie of the year & one of the best goalies the Manitoba Moose have ever had. He's expected to perform at a high level.

You're making it sound like there is 0% expectations on him when there are a lot from the organization, the fans but most importantly himself.

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01-05-2011, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Scottrockztheworld View Post
Hes the back up for a contender IN Canada.... that is far more pressure then in most American towns. He was Goalie of the year & one of the best goalies the Manitoba Moose have ever had. He's expected to perform at a high level.

You're making it sound like there is 0% expectations on him when there are a lot from the organization, the fans but most importantly himself.
bull he was horrid when he came up and there was pressure on him, he was basically handed the Backup job over raycroft and he couldnt keep it. this year he has done better, but let Luongo go down for the year and then we'll see how good Schneider is.....

All im saying is he's been sufficiently protected, behind a great team playing once every two weeks, take away the safety net and then you'll see what you got untill then its buyer beware

its great when you try to rewrite history, especially when he was basically in tears after being pulled from a game a couple of years ago

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01-05-2011, 08:33 PM
  #98
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bull he was horrid when he came up and there was pressure on him, he was basically handed the Backup job over raycroft and he couldnt keep it. this year he has done better, but let Luongo go down for the year and then we'll see how good Schneider is.....

All im saying is he's been sufficiently protected, behind a great team playing once every two weeks, take away the safety net and then you'll see what you got untill then its buyer beware

its great when you try to rewrite history, especially when he was basically in tears after being pulled from a game a couple of years ago
Yea he was bad his first call up but most goalies usually are.... there aren't very many 21 year olds that can come into the league & be lights out. Goalies take FAR longer to develop then any other position.

He was never handed the back up job over Raycroft.... we sign Raycroft to push Scheneider & to have a back up if Schneider didn't perform to a high enough level.

Better? 7-0-2 in 11 games is good for a back up... FAR better then previous Canuck back ups.

Well seeing as he has been playing good enough to not have a regulation win Im sure Schneider would do a good job covering for Luongo... he has so far when Luongo needs the night off.

When you're backing up Luongo you're only going to play every 1 or 2 weeks, the Canucks had a plan for him to play at least 20 games.... thats what he is on pace for.....But for the record he did play the 26th of Dec, 31st of Dec & Jan 2nd.

Also is the bolded necessary? If Milbury wasn't a jackass Luongo would be your goalie & youd be in love with him! & this safety net you're talking about is a joke..... but yea Im sure if Schenider played on a team with ECHL skill level like NYI his numbers wouldn't be great.

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01-05-2011, 08:42 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Scottrockztheworld View Post
Yea he was bad his first call up but most goalies usually are.... there aren't very many 21 year olds that can come into the league & be lights out. Goalies take FAR longer to develop then any other position.

He was never handed the back up job over Raycroft.... we sign Raycroft to push Scheneider & to have a back up if Schneider didn't perform to a high enough level.

Better? 7-0-2 in 11 games is good for a back up... FAR better then previous Canuck back ups.

Well seeing as he has been playing good enough to not have a regulation win Im sure Schneider would do a good job covering for Luongo... he has so far when Luongo needs the night off.

When you're backing up Luongo you're only going to play every 1 or 2 weeks, the Canucks had a plan for him to play at least 20 games.... thats what he is on pace for.....But for the record he did play the 26th of Dec, 31st of Dec & Jan 2nd.

Also is the bolded necessary? If Milbury wasn't a jackass Luongo would be your goalie & youd be in love with him! & this safety net you're talking about is a joke..... but yea Im sure if Schenider played on a team with ECHL skill level like NYI his numbers wouldn't be great.
He was basically told the Backup job was his over raycroft but in camp raycroft out played him, and was it necessary, yes because it is the basis for my feeling that we have to wait until we see how Schneider handles true pressure before we know what he is.

youre the one saying how proven he is, based on a small sample size at an advanced age, That reaction, after he gave up 5 goals in little over 1 period to me called into question his readiness, and if i remember correctly he was sent down soon after. Which is why I referred to it.

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01-05-2011, 08:44 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
He was basically told the Backup job was his over raycroft but in camp raycroft out played him, and was it necessary, yes because it is the basis for my feeling that we have to wait until we see how Schneider handles true pressure before we know what he is.

youre the one saying how proven he is, based on a small sample size at an advanced age, That to me called into question his readiness
It's not like he's playing against NYI to pad his stats.

He started against Tampa, Dallas (road) & SJ (road) just to name a few and is still undefeated in regulation.

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