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I want the Wiz, Subban and Weber in the line-up always!

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Old
01-04-2011, 04:27 PM
  #26
googlymoogly
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Unfortunately, we can't. He was 35 + when he signed the deal.

I think a rested Spacek in PO can contribute.
I liked what someone mentioned earlier, martin should rotate Gill, Hammer, Spacek by keeping the young guys in like Weber and Subban. The older veterans get some time to rest their brittle old bones while the youth pick up experience. This all works of course if both rookies can continue to play well and the Habs can start winning games. Would our coach do it? Probably not, one of either Weber or Subban will be sent down when Gorges comes back.

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01-04-2011, 04:33 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by googlymoogly View Post
I liked what someone mentioned earlier, martin should rotate Gill, Hammer, Spacek by keeping the young guys in like Weber and Subban. The older veterans get some time to rest their brittle old bones while the youth pick up experience. This all works of course if both rookies can continue to play well and the Habs can start winning games. Would our coach do it? Probably not, one of either Weber or Subban will be sent down when Gorges comes back.
It's hard to say exactly how long Gorges will be out for, but I almost get the sense that Weber and Subban are now in direct competition in terms of who stays up and who goes down. It's unfortunate because in my opinion along with the Wiz they've probably been our best defenseman since that trade happened. Hamrlik has been good considering he is logging the heavy assignments, Gill has been his usual ok but nothing fancy self and Spacek has been the Spacegoat we all love to hate, IMO the worst on the blueline since the transaction.

A steady rotation between Spacek, Hamrlik and Gill just makes way too much sense for Martin to even entertain such a thought. God forbid we actually rested our veterans a bit before the playoffs and our youth gained some much needed experience.

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01-04-2011, 04:40 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
It's hard to say exactly how long Gorges will be out for, but I almost get the sense that Weber and Subban are now in direct competition in terms of who stays up and who goes down. It's unfortunate because in my opinion along with the Wiz they've probably been our best defenseman since that trade happened. Hamrlik has been good considering he is logging the heavy assignments, Gill has been his usual ok but nothing fancy self and Spacek has been the Spacegoat we all love to hate, IMO the worst on the blueline since the transaction.

A steady rotation between Spacek, Hamrlik and Gill just makes way too much sense for Martin to even entertain such a thought. God forbid we actually rested our veterans a bit before the playoffs and our youth gained some much needed experience.
I don't think we can afford to sit Hamrlik, maybe cut back his minutes, but without him Wisniewski will be playing 35 minutes.

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01-04-2011, 04:45 PM
  #29
Franky Gee
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Originally Posted by MattKOTW View Post
The "35-and-Older" Clause:

When a player aged 35 or older signs a multi-year contract, his average salary is counted against the team's salary cap during every year of the contract, even if the player retires before the contract is up.
If the player is sent to the minor leagues, his cap hit is reduced by $100,000.


Contract Buyouts:

For players under the age of 26, a buyout costs the team one-third of remaining contract value.
For players 26 or older, a buyout costs two-thirds of remaining contract value.
On a buyout, the team takes a cap hit for a percentage of the buyout value (according to a very complex formula) spread over twice the length of the remaining contract years.

Where does it say you can't buyout a 35+?
You CAN buyout a 35+ but the full salary still counts against the cap so there's no use to buyout.

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01-04-2011, 04:49 PM
  #30
googlymoogly
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I don't think we can afford to sit Hamrlik, maybe cut back his minutes, but without him Wisniewski will be playing 35 minutes.
You sit out Hammer against weaker teams and split up Gorges and Gill.

When Hammer sits you have
Spacek Wiz
Gill Subban
Gorges Weber.
Or flip Spacek and Gorges. I think Spacek will start to play better if he gets some games off same for Hammer and Gill, these three have been put under a lot of stress this year we need to have then fresh for the playoffs.

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01-04-2011, 04:52 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Franky Gee View Post
You CAN buyout a 35+ but the full salary still counts against the cap so there's no use to buyout.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I have yet to read any difference from buying out a 27 year old or 36 year old...is it written somewhere?

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01-04-2011, 04:56 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I have yet to read any difference from buying out a 27 year old or 36 year old...is it written somewhere?
difference is, if you buyout the 27 yo, only the part you're paying count against the cap, while for the 36 yo it's the whole salary.

for example, if you buyout Gorges, only a % of his salary will count against the cap, if you buyout Spacek it's his whole 3.8M that counts. End result by buying out Gorges you save some $ and space under the cap, while by buying out Spacek you save nothing under the cap, you cant use his 3.8M...

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01-04-2011, 05:00 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I don't think we can afford to sit Hamrlik, maybe cut back his minutes, but without him Wisniewski will be playing 35 minutes.
I agree for the most part, there shouldn't be too much harm in giving him a night off in a back-to-back situation where we might be playing a "lesser" opponant or something like that. But cutting back his minutes in those kind of games is definitely a real option.

I realise any team can beat any team on any given night, but at some point the Habs need to learn how to put the bottom feeders away.

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01-04-2011, 05:01 PM
  #34
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Jacques Martin is the coach. He's a huge ***** and afraid to scratch veterans.

Oooo Look at me, I scratched Randy Cunneyworth 10 ****in' years ago. Well, he was a 4th liner at that time making crapola money. Gomez and Spacek are slightly better than he was. Gomez is now at least proving he's worth to be in the lineup, but before he was crap and Martin was too scared to scratch a guy making 7 mill who skates the puck to the other team and gives it up faster than a *****. Or a guy who just passes on the tape of the other team.

Martin doesn't even get angry.
That's so dumb buddy..

Didn't you see the games when Gomez was injured? Even when he does nothing all game, he is still valuable. We don't have anybody who can handle his minutes as well as he does, except for Pleks, but Pleks has his own big minutes to take care of.

Without Gomez, this team is significantly weaker.

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Old
01-04-2011, 05:11 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
difference is, if you buyout the 27 yo, only the part you're paying count against the cap, while for the 36 yo it's the whole salary.

for example, if you buyout Gorges, only a % of his salary will count against the cap, if you buyout Spacek it's his whole 3.8M that counts. End result by buying out Gorges you save some $ and space under the cap, while by buying out Spacek you save nothing under the cap, you cant use his 3.8M...
Ok but is this not written somewhere on the internet? I keep seeing links to parts of the CBA, have you seen that posted somewhere?

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01-04-2011, 05:18 PM
  #36
ECWHSWI
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Ok but is this not written somewhere on the internet? I keep seeing links to parts of the CBA, have you seen that posted somewhere?

Yeah I did, dont ask me to find a link for you though, I'm way too lazy to do that

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01-04-2011, 05:36 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by MattKOTW View Post
The "35-and-Older" Clause:

When a player aged 35 or older signs a multi-year contract, his average salary is counted against the team's salary cap during every year of the contract, even if the player retires before the contract is up.
If the player is sent to the minor leagues, his cap hit is reduced by $100,000.


.........

Where does it say you can't buyout a 35+?
what would be the point of buying him out if we are stuck with his cap?

so, yes, we can buy him out, but I fail to see the point if we can't save on the cap.

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01-04-2011, 05:38 PM
  #38
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Spacek is a good player. He has been overextended all season, playing against the opposition's best, but has responded as well as could be expected. I'm sure Martin is aware that Spacek would do better with easier assignments, but doesn't have the players to make that happen. The Habs don't have any better options, so Spacek is actually an indispensable asset, not a liability.

Hopefully the Habs can put Spacek on the 2nd or 3rd pairing next season, so you will all be able see once again what a steady, intelligent defenceman he is.

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01-04-2011, 05:52 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
what would be the point of buying him out if we are stuck with his cap?

so, yes, we can buy him out, but I fail to see the point if we can't save on the cap.
It never states the cap stays from a buyout. It only says that for retirement.

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01-04-2011, 05:53 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Ok but is this not written somewhere on the internet? I keep seeing links to parts of the CBA, have you seen that posted somewhere?
Found this,the guy talk about the Pronger Contract (35+) Dont know if it's reliable or not.

Quote:
With a 35-and-over deal, voluntary retirement and buyouts don't provide cap relief, while it's incredibly unlikely that, at age 40, someone like Pronger will head to whatever form the KHL is at that point.
http://www.fromtherink.com/2009/7/9/...th-the-pronger

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01-04-2011, 05:57 PM
  #41
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There was talk about spacek possibly retiring, which would be bad for us. I'm hoping he decides to go play in europe for a year or two. Best for both parties.

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01-04-2011, 05:59 PM
  #42
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There was talk about spacek possibly retiring, which would be bad for us. I'm hoping he decides to go play in europe for a year or two. Best for both parties.
What?

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01-04-2011, 06:14 PM
  #43
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What?
There was talk about it last year at some point, and I heard it again from somewhere very recently. I'll try to find it for you.

edit:

There's a reference to it here: http://insidehockey.com/?p=11100

Although that's only a bit of it. Just googling ' jaroslav spacek retiring' got a few interesting hits.

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01-04-2011, 06:39 PM
  #44
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It never states the cap stays from a buyout. It only says that for retirement.
No, it's on the cap either way.

Bob MacKenize addressed it on Twitter the other day in regards to a different over 35er, don't have the link though.

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01-04-2011, 06:55 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
There was talk about it last year at some point, and I heard it again from somewhere very recently. I'll try to find it for you.

edit:

There's a reference to it here: http://insidehockey.com/?p=11100

Although that's only a bit of it. Just googling ' jaroslav spacek retiring' got a few interesting hits.
he's too much of a happy go lucky mushroom to retire

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01-04-2011, 07:23 PM
  #46
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Spacek is a good player. He has been overextended all season, playing against the opposition's best, but has responded as well as could be expected. I'm sure Martin is aware that Spacek would do better with easier assignments, but doesn't have the players to make that happen. The Habs don't have any better options, so Spacek is actually an indispensable asset, not a liability.

Hopefully the Habs can put Spacek on the 2nd or 3rd pairing next season, so you will all be able see once again what a steady, intelligent defenceman he is.
QFT I love it when people actually understand the situation instead of just mindlessly assuming that since Spacek struggles at times ont he first paring that he is a crap defenseman. I also think that just putting him back on the left has helped him a lot. Best case senario is he gets to stay on the left and gets to play with a defensively sound RD like Gorges so he has some room to bring back the Buffalo-Spacek that he was before we signed him.

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01-04-2011, 08:30 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
There was talk about spacek possibly retiring, which would be bad for us. I'm hoping he decides to go play in europe for a year or two. Best for both parties.
If he wants to retire, why would that necessarily be bad for us? We could trade him to a team that has no intention of spending anywhere near the cap limit and then when he chooses to retire rather than report to his new posting, problem is solved. Give the trading team a mid-tier prospect and a 3rd round pick or take a minor salary dump in exchange should do the trick.

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01-04-2011, 09:16 PM
  #48
Monctonscout
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Found this,the guy talk about the Pronger Contract (35+) Dont know if it's reliable or not.



http://www.fromtherink.com/2009/7/9/...th-the-pronger
So if Spacek leaves to play with Omsk Avangard we have ZERO cap hit? I thought 35+ contracts still had the cap hit wether in Europe, AHL etc?

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01-04-2011, 10:30 PM
  #49
ECWHSWI
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So if Spacek leaves to play with Omsk Avangard we have ZERO cap hit? I thought 35+ contracts still had the cap hit wether in Europe, AHL etc?
Yes.

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01-05-2011, 12:36 AM
  #50
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I've been very busy and I haven't seen Wiz play in a single game. How has he been?

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