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Any rumors on a D-man being traded to the Sharks?

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Old
01-06-2011, 03:20 PM
  #76
Chalfdiggity3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
My reply is as follows:
"WOW, please stop with the ridiculous post."
Your opinion, I disagree

"First off Rosie by himself can net a bottom 1st round pick, but the Sharks dont have the cap space to take rosie off our hands. Rosie is a solid 2 way defenseman who is a #2-4 defenseman. No need to just give him away."

I think we disagree slightly, but we are in the same ballpark. I think my evaluation of Rozsival is accurate and trade value more reasonable, but that doesn't mean we, like any other club, don't exploit an opportunity to command a little more if there is an injury or some other factor at work.
Roszi is not a solid 2 way D [that is basically Girardi, who is solid on O and great on D]. Roszi is marginal on O, but that's ok because he doesn't hog the puck and gets it to more talented shooters (even though he's not really a playmaker). He is superior on D, nominally adequate on physical play, but exceptional on stickhandling and shot blocking. He's eliminated his bad habit of last year, with one blunder per game, returning to the form of the prior year.
This is a solid #2 pick. A team desperate will pay a #1; he's not an automatic #1; he's good enough to command a #1 with an added pick or other asset. If you need to dump salary, quickly, you discount him to a #3 pick +.

"Stop with the Girardi trade proposals. I dont know why you want to get rid of him for nothing. Hes young, plays in all situations and is solid in every aspect of the game. No way does ANY Rangers fan ever want this trade to go down. the sharks if they can find a way to deal with the cap hit would take this and run away laughing."

I reject your conclusion "for nothing".
If keeping him were possible and other options were easy, I'd do that; such is not the case.
If we want to get to the next level, we need to make a hard choices, and a Girardi may have to be sacrificed, directly or indirectly, as part of that equation. And it is a hard choice; Girardi is better than Rozi, so you bump up my trade estimate a whole grade.

Do we have alternatives? That is the difficult question masking a hard choice.
I think M.Staal, Anisimov + Callahan + Krieder are the core; I have to be super overwhelmed to part with them.
A notch below: Dubi Gaborik MDZ; I merely have to be overwhelmed.
The next group is most of the current team, and our best prospects: here, I may or may not be looking to deal, but I will only deal if there's a profit.
Then there are the expendables.
If you're going to cut salary to reposition for better cap options, who, realistically can you move?

"Id love for you to put this on the rangers board and see what kind of responses you would get. Your out of your mind to want to give up two very good defensman for basically a pick in the late 20's. Besides we dont have any defenseman who can come in and take their minutes. I have no issue of dealing rosie for the 1st and a player going into his UFA like Huskins or something but this is just a terrible proposal"
I'm receptive to doing this in two bites, Rozi or Girardi, not both.
However, if you want an option on a guy like Richards next year AND have cap room for NYR UFA/RFA, you need to do something like this.
Barring a miracle of a retirement or injury or something unusual, we are stuck with some of our cap; we can chip away at it. But we still need a big move for big results.
While not quite the Louisiana Purchase, this is the kind of temporary offer that would be an inducement to a team like SJS to pay the price to make some amount of cap space to do this deal.

Your concerns are valid. It IS a gamble.
But I think it is one worth taking, and if we go through five or six guys instead of just two, we'll get by, supplemented by whatever waiver deal usually turns up (or possibly a Kaberle rental/deal if the price is right). It will be good to give our guys the experience and see what they got. It might be too much to ask 1 or 2 guys who are rookies for a whole season, but it arguably is not unthinkable with five or six possible call ups who only have to get you through the balance of the season.

Thanks for the constructive comments...[/QUOTE]

Im sorry for criticizing your ideas harshly i just have a different idea on how this team should be built. I believe in what theyre doing now. It took awhile and made some amazing drafts get this homegrown talent here. Lundqvist a 7th round draft pick! Girardi undrafted. With trading girardi your really hurting this team defensively. The is one of the most underrated dman in the league, he does it all and believe me this team will serious miss him in the lineup. Your drastically turning a team that is on the cup of serious contention to a non playoff team and having to wait 5-7 more year rather than 2-3 years to be considered for the cup. Wed have to wait for our Mcdonaugh, Mdz, Valentenko, and McIrath pan out.

I have no issue at all with trading rosie and would love to trade him to a team in need. For a dman who would be a UFA at the end of the year, that can still be a solid defensman. Kaberle would be great but no way do we get him for just rosie. Free up the capspace for next year while still having a competitive solid defense and leaving room for McDonaugh and Valentenko to play their way into the lineup.

I think if we just stay patient till Drury's, and Avery's contracts run out, which will free up 9million in capspace, while having all our RFA's signed up long term, our core in tact, and having our defense Girardi, Staal, Mcd, Sauer, MDZ, Valentenko, get better along with dubinsky, callahan, boyle, stepan, Anisimov and zucca. Krieder, Grachev, Horak, come in and possibly make the team, well be a very young talented and Dangerous team to go alone with gaborik and lundqvist. Having that team with around 8-10 million dollars in caproom, the lure of NYC, a team ready to compete for the cup, and players such as Shane Doan, Patrick Sharp, Brent Burns, Ryan Suter, or pick up none continue wit our boys and a after really go crazy and you have 8-10 in capspace for not signing anyone, and picking up crosby, Iginla, Getzlaf, Perry, Fisher, Roy, J. Staal.

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Old
01-06-2011, 03:38 PM
  #77
Winroba
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Valabik on re-call waivers for $300,000?

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Old
01-07-2011, 12:29 PM
  #78
bernmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
I'm receptive to doing this in two bites, Rozi or Girardi, not both.
However, if you want an option on a guy like Richards next year AND have cap room for NYR UFA/RFA, you need to do something like this.
Barring a miracle of a retirement or injury or something unusual, we are stuck with some of our cap; we can chip away at it. But we still need a big move for big results.
While not quite the Louisiana Purchase, this is the kind of temporary offer that would be an inducement to a team like SJS to pay the price to make some amount of cap space to do this deal.

Your concerns are valid. It IS a gamble.
But I think it is one worth taking, and if we go through five or six guys instead of just two, we'll get by, supplemented by whatever waiver deal usually turns up (or possibly a Kaberle rental/deal if the price is right). It will be good to give our guys the experience and see what they got. It might be too much to ask 1 or 2 guys who are rookies for a whole season, but it arguably is not unthinkable with five or six possible call ups who only have to get you through the balance of the season.

Thanks for the constructive comments...
Im sorry for criticizing your ideas harshly i just have a different idea on how this team should be built. I believe in what theyre doing now. It took awhile and made some amazing drafts get this homegrown talent here. Lundqvist a 7th round draft pick! Girardi undrafted. With trading girardi your really hurting this team defensively. The is one of the most underrated dman in the league, he does it all and believe me this team will serious miss him in the lineup. Your drastically turning a team that is on the cup of serious contention to a non playoff team and having to wait 5-7 more year rather than 2-3 years to be considered for the cup. Wed have to wait for our Mcdonaugh, Mdz, Valentenko, and McIrath pan out.

I have no issue at all with trading rosie and would love to trade him to a team in need. For a dman who would be a UFA at the end of the year, that can still be a solid defensman. Kaberle would be great but no way do we get him for just rosie. Free up the capspace for next year while still having a competitive solid defense and leaving room for McDonaugh and Valentenko to play their way into the lineup.

I think if we just stay patient till Drury's, and Avery's contracts run out, which will free up 9million in capspace, while having all our RFA's signed up long term, our core in tact, and having our defense Girardi, Staal, Mcd, Sauer, MDZ, Valentenko, get better along with dubinsky, callahan, boyle, stepan, Anisimov and zucca. Krieder, Grachev, Horak, come in and possibly make the team, well be a very young talented and Dangerous team to go alone with gaborik and lundqvist. Having that team with around 8-10 million dollars in caproom, the lure of NYC, a team ready to compete for the cup, and players such as Shane Doan, Patrick Sharp, Brent Burns, Ryan Suter, or pick up none continue wit our boys and a after really go crazy and you have 8-10 in capspace for not signing anyone, and picking up crosby, Iginla, Getzlaf, Perry, Fisher, Roy, J. Staal.[/QUOTE]

1. I wouldn't rush Girardi out the door. Like every player he's worth a certain value, and if I think more can be had (directly in a better player or indirectly in cap savings) then I consider it.
Everyone wanted to deal Gilroy.
I said not so fast, have an open mind and make sure it's a good deal if you move him. I was clearly right on that one.
I'm for moving Girardi only because he has value, and can be used not only to move his cap hit but additional cap as well.

2. Nothing against Rosi, but he can stay or he can go.

3. Patience is a virtue, and staying the course is better than blundering into a stupid mistake, just making a move for the sake of making a move. However, there is also something to be said for taking the active initiative to shape your own development, to the extent same is possible.

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Old
01-07-2011, 12:34 PM
  #79
bernmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patty Ice View Post
It's getting too mature on the Trade Rumors Board
Down with civility!!!

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