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Old
01-06-2011, 12:17 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by ZMan17 View Post
Why would Isles do this if he's a RFA next year? We can just make him an offer sheet instead of making this lopsided trade and risk losing him for nothing.
What? If you offer sheet him, you lose four first rounders, which is probably a helluva lot worse than a 1st, 2nd, a player.

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01-06-2011, 12:21 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by DannyHockey View Post
Islanders would get robbed long term. All three top picks (Couturier, Larsson, RNH) all project to be better players than Parise.
"Robbed".

HF...where the projected promise of a teenager yet to hit NHL ice is sexier than a proven 20-something NHL star.

Three wishes...for Zac Parise. Perhaps if NJD is gunning for 31st in a 30 team league next season.

PS - where exactly has anyone of reputation suggested that the three teen idols project to be better players than Zac Parise?


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Old
01-06-2011, 07:04 AM
  #28
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What? If you offer sheet him, you lose four first rounders, which is probably a helluva lot worse than a 1st, 2nd, a player.
Imagine if the Devils had the Islanders next 4 first rounders! I would walk away from Parise in a second for that.

And I hate the idea of potential for proven talent but that be would similar to Lindros to Philly or Hershal Walker being traded from Dallas.

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Old
01-06-2011, 09:41 AM
  #29
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in reality, this thread shouldn't exist because:
1) there's no way NJ trades Parise
2) there's no way the NYI have anything to offer in return. Mainly, no impact players even close to Parise. Any offer would have to include players/prospects the Isles have wasted several years trying to develop.

Makes zero sense.

And note to everyone: New Jersey's having an awful season, but they are far from having to tear everything down and start from scratch. That's something they've never done, in fact, very few good teams ever do this. It's largely a fallacy to think you have to start completely over with teenagers and high current/former 1st rounders to become a great team.

A lot of organizations have been "good teams" (ie. perennial playoff appearances, competitive, a chance to go deep every year) without top five pics and without finishing last and without playing teenagers way before they are ready to contribute.

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01-06-2011, 09:43 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
Imagine if the Devils had the Islanders next 4 first rounders! I would walk away from Parise in a second for that.

And I hate the idea of potential for proven talent but that be would similar to Lindros to Philly or Hershal Walker being traded from Dallas.


ShareEach year there may be a rumor or two involving a team signing a restricted free agent to an offer sheet. The draft compensation that teams would have to pay for signing a 2010 NHL restricted free agent without the contract being matched. Each year the salaries will go up at the same rate with the league player salary average. Teams have to use their own drafts picks for the compensation.

2010 Compensation

•$1,020,348 or below: No compensation.
•$1,020,348 to $1,545,981: A third-round draft choice.
•$1,545,981 to $3,091,963: A second round draft choice.
•$3,091,963 to $4,637,944: A first-round choice and a third-rounder.
•$4,637,944 to $6,183,925: A first- a second- and a third-rounder.
•$6,183,925 to $7,729,907: Two First-round choices, a second-rounder and a third-rounder.
•Over $7,729,907: Four first-rounders.

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Old
01-06-2011, 09:57 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goal1228 View Post
ShareEach year there may be a rumor or two involving a team signing a restricted free agent to an offer sheet. The draft compensation that teams would have to pay for signing a 2010 NHL restricted free agent without the contract being matched. Each year the salaries will go up at the same rate with the league player salary average. Teams have to use their own drafts picks for the compensation.

2010 Compensation

•$1,020,348 or below: No compensation.
•$1,020,348 to $1,545,981: A third-round draft choice.
•$1,545,981 to $3,091,963: A second round draft choice.
•$3,091,963 to $4,637,944: A first-round choice and a third-rounder.
•$4,637,944 to $6,183,925: A first- a second- and a third-rounder.
•$6,183,925 to $7,729,907: Two First-round choices, a second-rounder and a third-rounder.
•Over $7,729,907: Four first-rounders.
I don't understand your point?

I was day dreaming about having the Islanders next 4 first rounders not really thinking about the reality of it.

You think Parise is going to sign an offer sheet for 7.5 when the Devils offer 7? Seriously, come on now.

To get Parise to look at an offer sheet it is going to have to be absurd.

If Vanek's offer was $7,142,857 Three Years ago what is going to take to make an offer that would interest Parise enough to sign an offer sheet?

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01-06-2011, 10:09 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
I don't understand your point?

I was day dreaming about having the Islanders next 4 first rounders not really thinking about the reality of it.

You think Parise is going to sign an offer sheet for 7.5 when the Devils offer 7? Seriously, come on now.

To get Parise to look at an offer sheet it is going to have to be absurd.

If Vanek's offer was $7,142,857 Three Years ago what is going to take to make an offer that would interest Parise enough to sign an offer sheet?


I was just posting 2010 RFA compensation. You can come to your own conclusion.

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01-06-2011, 10:15 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyHockey View Post
Islanders would get robbed long term. All three top picks (Couturier, Larsson, RNH) all project to be better players than Parise. If the pick falls into the 4-7 range I would say lets do it but I'm not sure if I want any part of a franchise that is actually in worse shape than the Islanders.

holy LOL

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01-06-2011, 10:19 AM
  #34
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All in all NYI would be better on sending an offer sheet his way for around this:

$6,183,925 to $7,729,907: Two First-round choices, a second-rounder and a third-rounder.



An offer sheet though is not a good idea since Lou will come right after us for our players that are coming into RFA's

NYI need players that can play, we have restocked our draft pool enough that we need to focus on the ice.

I would love to have Parise on the island and I would trade 2 first round draft picks and whatever else for him as long as we have a deal in place for a decent term contract which I'll note is very uncommon in the NHL.

I rather have the proven talent opposed to the "potential" . How many more draft picks do the NYI need?we can only have 50 professional contracts and have already seen some of our prospects let go because we can't sign them.

Once again the Yashin comparison with Parise it really comical. How do you compare a player with passion for the game to one who doesn't have any?

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Old
01-06-2011, 10:26 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by DannyHockey View Post
Islanders would get robbed long term. All three top picks (Couturier, Larsson, RNH) all project to be better players than Parise. If the pick falls into the 4-7 range I would say lets do it but I'm not sure if I want any part of a franchise that is actually in worse shape than the Islanders.
Oh Danny boy....NYI make out like bandits even adding to the deal. We get a superstar player and we give up possible good draft picks. I take the proven player every time. NYI needs to start focusing on the real NHL players. We have done well in drafting now lets do well where it counts and get players that will help us win.

If the pick was the #1 pick, I wouldn't blink an eye throwing it in the deal.

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01-06-2011, 12:30 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by SUNRISE27EMTK View Post
All in all NYI would be better on sending an offer sheet his way for around this:

$6,183,925 to $7,729,907: Two First-round choices, a second-rounder and a third-rounder.



An offer sheet though is not a good idea since Lou will come right after us for our players that are coming into RFA's

NYI need players that can play, we have restocked our draft pool enough that we need to focus on the ice.

I would love to have Parise on the island and I would trade 2 first round draft picks and whatever else for him as long as we have a deal in place for a decent term contract which I'll note is very uncommon in the NHL.

I rather have the proven talent opposed to the "potential" . How many more draft picks do the NYI need?we can only have 50 professional contracts and have already seen some of our prospects let go because we can't sign them.

Once again the Yashin comparison with Parise it really comical. How do you compare a player with passion for the game to one who doesn't have any?

The issue isn't Lou coming after your players - The issue is $6,183,925 to $7,729,907 will be in the relm that New Jersey is already offering Parise, it is probably also in the relm of what an arbitor would award Parise and therfore wouldn't make sense for Parise to sign an offer sheet.

I personally do not believe the offer sheet route is the way Parise will go regardless. Mainly because he has arbitration rights...Offer sheets would come from a narrow group of teams in the league.

With arbitration rights he can get a huge 1 year contract then open himself up to the entire league for bidding. It is the smartest financial path for him to take if he wanted out.

All this Parise talk is really kind of premature anyway. If you see Parise elect for arbitration this summer then the conversation is real.

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Old
01-06-2011, 12:49 PM
  #37
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Imagine if the Devils had the Islanders next 4 first rounders! I would walk away from Parise in a second for that.

And I hate the idea of potential for proven talent but that be would similar to Lindros to Philly or Hershal Walker being traded from Dallas.
My God. The only four players not worth the Islanders 4 firsts are Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos, and Luke Schenn. Most teams, such as the Kings with their high draft picks, I'd consider the 4 firsts, but four future top 10 picks? I'd kill to have that.

As for the Herschel Walker deal, didn't the Cowboys get like 10 draft picks in exchange? Also, as lopsided as that deal really was, it was a lot worse because of how productive the Cowboys used those draft picks to form their dynasty. The Devils would have to be productive with theirs as well in order to make a fair comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
And note to everyone: New Jersey's having an awful season, but they are far from having to tear everything down and start from scratch. That's something they've never done, in fact, very few good teams ever do this. It's largely a fallacy to think you have to start completely over with teenagers and high current/former 1st rounders to become a great team.

A lot of organizations have been "good teams" (ie. perennial playoff appearances, competitive, a chance to go deep every year) without top five pics and without finishing last and without playing teenagers way before they are ready to contribute.
Thank you so much for being intelligent and realizing this. Not many non-Devil fans understand this concept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SUNRISE27EMTK View Post
All in all NYI would be better on sending an offer sheet his way for around this:

$6,183,925 to $7,729,907: Two First-round choices, a second-rounder and a third-rounder.
The Devils match the offer sheet and then offer sheet Tavares in a couple years. Over the next two years, the Devils have the following UFA's come off the books:

Langenbrunner (2.8), Arnott (4.5), Hedberg (1.5), Greene (750k), Mair (500k), White (3), Salvador (2.9), Rolston (5), Brodeur (5.2). Figure the cap goes up 2 mil each year, and the Devils will have around 30 mil in cap space to replace these guys (which won't be difficult considering their minimal impact this season) and then sign who they want to sign. You go after Parise, and believe me, Lou will be dictating how much you pay your players.

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Old
01-06-2011, 01:19 PM
  #38
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Whats the diffenece between what we are proposing and this?

To ATL:
Johnny Oduya
Niclas Bergfors
Patrice Cormier
1st (24th Overall)

To NJ:
Kovalchuk
Anssi Samlema

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01-06-2011, 01:30 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by KrisBeKreame View Post
Whats the diffenece between what we are proposing and this?

To ATL:
Johnny Oduya
Niclas Bergfors
Patrice Cormier
1st (24th Overall)

To NJ:
Kovalchuk
Anssi Samlema
Well, Bergfors and the pick count as two first rounders, which is already better than the one pick NYI is offering here. Tack on Oduya and a top prospect and the Kovy deal has tons more value than this proposal.

More obviously, Kovy was a UFA that had no intention of signing with Atlanta. Parise is an RFA that has said that he wants to remain a Devil. Atlanta had no choice but to get something in exchange for their prize LW, while the Devils hold the cards and really have no intention to deal Parise.

Using the Kovy trade as a crutch for garbage Parise proposals is getting really tiresome. I know I'm not the only Devil fan who thinks so.

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01-06-2011, 02:28 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
NYI
2011 1st rounder (1-3 overall)
2011 2nd rounder (31-33 overall)
Mikko Koskinen or Anders Nilsson

NJD
Zach Parise

The Devils could end up with Couturier and Larsson, a decent goaltender prospect and basically another late 1st rounder.

*puts flame retardant suit on and braces self*
That wouldn't even get you Phil Kessel let alone Parise....

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01-06-2011, 02:52 PM
  #41
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i cant believe people actually think we "sold the farm" in order to acquire Kovalchuk

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01-06-2011, 03:33 PM
  #42
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i cant believe people actually think we "sold the farm" in order to acquire Kovalchuk
People will think whatever they want to make their point right. There's two situations:

Situation A: People want to say how the Devils are screwed with Kovalchuk. They say we stripped away our entire future to acquire him. Cormier isn't anything special, IMO. Oduya was a liability on D, although a solid offensive defenseman. Bergfors and the 1st stung a bit, but it's well worth it for a player of Kovy's caliber.

Situation B: People want to propose a trade for Parise. Now all of a sudden, that trade was highway robbery so OP's decide to put up a similar deal, suggesting that Kovy and Parise were both in similar situations. Wrong.

In reality, the fairness of the Kovy deal was somewhere in the middle. The Devils gave up some future to acquire one of the game's elite. However, Atlanta got short changed slightly because no one was going to overpay Atlanta since he wasn't locked up long term. To be honest, they probably should have done a sign and trade with Kovy's approval. Could have gotten a lot more for him, IMO.

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01-07-2011, 02:33 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by SUNRISE27EMTK View Post
Oh Danny boy....NYI make out like bandits even adding to the deal. We get a superstar player and we give up possible good draft picks. I take the proven player every time. NYI needs to start focusing on the real NHL players. We have done well in drafting now lets do well where it counts and get players that will help us win.

If the pick was the #1 pick, I wouldn't blink an eye throwing it in the deal.
Parise is an excellent player but as good as he is, I believe any of the top 3 picks (Couturier, Larsson, RNH) should all be better than he is. I like that we are building within the organization and I would hate to see the Islanders start trading away picks and young players and make the same mistakes we made 10 years ago.

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01-07-2011, 02:35 AM
  #44
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On a side note...

How bad are the Devils right now. What a disaster and no hope in sight


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01-07-2011, 03:36 AM
  #45
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Niederreiter would have to be in discussion.

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01-07-2011, 03:42 AM
  #46
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I'd do


LW Zach Parise


RW Nino Niederreiter
D Travis Hamonic
2011 1st round pick

Then draft Larsson and Couturier/Landeskog. Bam, the Devils are instant threats once again.

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01-07-2011, 03:48 AM
  #47
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Niederreiter would have to be in discussion.
Sure.Cause Snow's known for his wild Milbury like gambles

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01-07-2011, 09:39 AM
  #48
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these teams cannot and will not trade, makes little sense. NJ is not and will not "rebuild" with youth - they don't have to.

Would anyone be really shocked if they win the division next year? They had a bad year, they've had some injuries, they have some holes that aren't impossible to fix. There are much worse teams out there than Jersey.

Parise, Kovalchuk, Zajac, Elias, Zubrus.
Tallinder, Volchenkov, White
Brodeur.

That's not a "core" that you need to overhaul at all.

Minor tweaks and Jersey will be right back where they always were.

Kovy's the whipping boy and it's somewhat deserved. But he's a proven elite goal scorer.

I wouldn't bet against them rebounding as early as next year. Too much talent there.

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Old
01-07-2011, 10:43 AM
  #49
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I'd do


LW Zach Parise


RW Nino Niederreiter
D Travis Hamonic
2011 1st round pick

Then draft Larsson and Couturier/Landeskog. Bam, the Devils are instant threats once again.
OMG are you serious?? Do you really think the Isles would give up that much for Parise

Just the first round pick alone is worth more than Parise, and you think we add on top of that two of our best prospects ???

Wow you are the most dilusional person i've ever met

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01-07-2011, 10:49 AM
  #50
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OMG are you serious?? Do you really think the Isles would give up that much for Parise

Just the first round pick alone is worth more than Parise, and you think we add on top of that two of our best prospects ???

Wow you are the most dilusional person i've ever met
Proposal was horrible, but Id give up that 1st rounder 10/10 times for Parise. Are you dilusional?

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