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Kostitsyn is exceding expectations / his peers

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Old
01-06-2011, 11:36 AM
  #51
Evil Ted
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My problem with him is that he disapears for long streches most notable in the playoffs. If he can be moved for a player with a simalar upside and contract I would jump on it.

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01-06-2011, 11:38 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
Excuse me? No PP minutes? What are you talking about? He averages almost 2 and half minutes on the PP every game. Thats only 11 seconds less than Gomez. The other forwards getting more are Gionta, Cammy and Plekanec, and considering all four are better players, i dont how you can complain about it. He is taking a regular shift on the PP.
Darche took his place in the last 2 game

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01-06-2011, 11:41 AM
  #53
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Agreed.
He didn't like SK.
He didn't like Lats.
And he doesn't like AK.

I believe his answer to the question ''how do you explain Andrei's early success this year?'' earlier this season was a good proof of that. He answered ''contract year''.
Ah yes. This part. When a players lack of sustained effort is the coaches fault.

What a cop out.

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01-06-2011, 11:46 AM
  #54
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Ah yes. This part. When a players lack of sustained effort is the coaches fault.

What a cop out.
effort or not, Sergei was a bum here he perform in Nashville, Lats was a fat lazy 3rd liner he perform with the Wild. AK will do the same with his next team

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01-06-2011, 11:52 AM
  #55
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The fact that you're defending his efforts through comparing him to other 10th overall picks is completely irrelevant. If anything, take a gander back at his scouting report during the 2003 draft and lets make a comparrison out of that.What is there to say that hasnt been said? He doesnt bring his game every night, but hes not the way he is right now just for the sake he wasnt a top 5 pick. that's Scewed Logic right there.

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01-06-2011, 11:58 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Bohemian93 View Post
The fact that you're defending his efforts through comparing him to other 10th overall picks is completely irrelevant. If anything, take a gander back at his scouting report during the 2003 draft and lets make a comparrison out of that.What is there to say that hasnt been said?
scouting report said he was a huge freakin gamble. It didn't say he was a supreme talent that was going to be a superstar in the league.

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01-06-2011, 01:12 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
Ah yes. This part. When a players lack of sustained effort is the coaches fault.

What a cop out.
Isn't the problem that Martin has players that play a certain style and decides he wants to change them to play a style of hockey that is completely different and when his stupid experiment fails he ships the guy off for table scraps.

I think the biggest flaw in Martin's strategy is that Gauthier will struggle to replenish all the dead wood that Martin casts off and decides to get a coach that can work with the players on the roster. It's all about whether Gauthier wants to walk the plank with Martin or if he likes his job and he wants to keep it.

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Old
01-06-2011, 01:13 PM
  #58
LesCanadiens
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Agreed.
He didn't like SK.
He didn't like Lats.
And he doesn't like AK.


I believe his answer to the question ''how do you explain Andrei's early success this year?'' earlier this season was a good proof of that. He answered ''contract year''.
God forbid the coach didn't/doesn't like selfish, lazy, floaters who don't buy into the team concept.

That post was good for a chuckle.

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Old
01-06-2011, 04:47 PM
  #59
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by LesCanadiens View Post
God forbid the coach didn't/doesn't like selfish, lazy, floaters who don't buy into the team concept.

That post was good for a chuckle.
What is really funny is the ever-so repeated excuse "the players are lazy".
Was D'Agostini lazy too?
Was Chipchura lazy too?
Was O'Byrne lazy too??..
Was Lappy lazy too??
Oh no, right, these guys just sucked.

How long before Pouliot falls into that category?..Subban?..

If that's the case, then why in God's name are we drafting slow, lazy, no heart bad young players???..we're not talking about one or two player here. Every year we seem to get rid of some prospects or young players that were nicely regarded at some point.

You can diss Sergei and Lats all you want, but putting the blame on these guys when its happening on a regular basis with a multitude of players with different personalities, you have to start wondering if the problem might just be coming from elsewhere.


Last edited by Kriss E: 01-06-2011 at 05:50 PM.
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Old
01-06-2011, 05:20 PM
  #60
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Andreï had and still has better skating ability, better shot and better strenght than a lot of the other players in the 2003 draft. His hockey IQ never really developped as much as some of those players and he has a huge consistency problem... I suppose it's not easy to see that coming as a scout.

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Old
01-06-2011, 05:20 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by LesCanadiens View Post
God forbid the coach didn't/doesn't like selfish, lazy, floaters who don't buy into the team concept.

That post was good for a chuckle.
Frankly, Latendresse was a prime example of a player management screwed up miserably on. He was rushed to the NHL level for too early because of some idiotic notion he was the Francophone Rick Nash and was not given consistent time on our top line. The moment Minnesota acquired him and firmly fixed his ass in front of the net. The guy was lighting up goals.

Lats was neither selfish nor a floater. Sure he had his lazy night or two but he was poorly utilized by moronic coaches. Not that I wish to defend Sergei however Carbo adored benching players for even the slightest mistake.

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Old
01-06-2011, 05:53 PM
  #62
Kirk Muller
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Originally Posted by Quarantesix View Post
Darche took his place in the last 2 game
Wow, OMG the world is ending. Two games and games he still got pp time. Stop making excuses.

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01-06-2011, 05:54 PM
  #63
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Wow, OMG the world is ending. Two games and games he still got pp time. Stop making excuses.
I think you just not understanding my point.

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Old
01-06-2011, 06:01 PM
  #64
Kirk Muller
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
The difference is that Gomez, Gionta, Cammy and Plek will get regular PP ice time. They will not miss one shift, ever.
AK on the other hand, skips turns and doesn't have a solidified spot on the PP.

His average doesn't reflect consistency, it's an average.
Since we started our bad stretch (Dec 10th vs Detroit), AK has seen more than 1:43 on the PP only 3 times out of 12 Games (or should I say 11 because he was a healthy scratch in one of them). On 4 occasions, he was used for under 1 minute there.
This has been his PP usage over that stretch:
1:02
0:05
1:43
4:14
2:19
4:41
1:36
1:31
0
0:47
0:51

So you see, remove his two huge minutes, 4:14 and 4:41, and his numbers don't get inflated that much anymore.

Martin wants consistency out of his player but he, himself, isn't consistent with the way he uses him.
Is on a complete tear on the first line, keeping up with Plek's numbers, and then is replaced by Gionta only to play next to Gomez and Moen. Was also removed from the first PP wave. Was moved from 2nd to 3rd, to 4th, to being the odd man out in practice and uncertain to play until pre-game warm-up, then told he'd play, then scratched, not being used on the PK when the rest of the top 6 guys are, not having a set PP spot, one game it's 4min, two games later it's 0...
And then Martin says he wants him to be more consistent?? Doesn't seem quite fair to me..
Well consistency is a two way streak. Maybe the reason AK isn't getting consistent time is because of his consistency.

The reason he is bouning around is his own undoing. He disappears.

Maybe if he put consistent efforts in he wouldn't be getting bounced around.

Also he has 11 seconds on average less than Gomez this year so say what you will, Cammy, Gionta and Pleks have been better overall players thus no cut in time. A streaky player like AK is bound to have this happen. Its called a coach knowing when a player is on or floating.

Also there are games we didn't get more than a few PP's in that stretch so it doesn't mean much.

So how many coaches fault is it in AK's career now?

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Old
01-06-2011, 06:02 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Quarantesix View Post
I think you just not understanding my point.
You said he had no PP time. You wrote that. Your WRONG. Unless you don't understand what you wrote.

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Old
01-06-2011, 06:06 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
You said he had no PP time. You wrote that. Your WRONG. Unless you don't understand what you wrote.
I talking about right now

Does he have PP time right now? no
Was he bench after the penalty the other night? yes
was he a healthy scratch? yes

Do I think he's happy with Martin and the Habs? no
Do I think he want to be trade? yes
Do I think he will produce more in another team like Sergei and Lats? yes

Do you understand my point?

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Old
01-06-2011, 06:09 PM
  #67
Myron Gaines*
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Kostitsyn is an underachiever because he's lazy, that's all there is to it.

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Old
01-06-2011, 06:11 PM
  #68
Kirk Muller
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Originally Posted by Quarantesix View Post
I talking about right now

Do he have PP time right now? no
Was he bench after the penalty the other night? yes
was he a healthy scratch? yes

Do I think he want to be trade? yes
Do I think he will produce more in another team like Sergei and Lats? yes

Do you understand my point?
He had PP time last game. Florida was the only game he was cut. So you are up in arms over one game in a stretch of games where he has been absolutely abysmal.

Whens is it AK's responsibility for his average career.

Do you understand what it means to say he is getting no PP time. Have a look at Hal Gill, thats definition of "No PP time"

He has 1 goal in the last 15 games and you don't think he deserves some cuts to his PP time

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Old
01-06-2011, 06:11 PM
  #69
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Andrei Kostitsyn is having pretty much the career that he should be. I don't know why people to expect him to be a superstar, he wasn't a top draft pick like Kane, Toews, Duchene, Malkin etc... People expecting him to be a superstar are out to lunch. He's a 20 goal scorer. People need to realize that.

He was drafted 10th overall in 2003. Lets compare other people who were drafted 10th overall. I'm going to compare older drafts cuz if I go the newer ones, you'll complain that they are younger and not as developed as AK.

2002 Eric Nystrom LW, 20 career goals
2001 a goalie was drafted 10th, Tuomo Ruutu was drafted 9th and has gotten 20+ goals twice and a bunch of 5-15 goal seasons
2000 Mikhail Yakubov 2 NHL goals
1999 Jamie Lundmark never more than 10 goals in a season
1998 goalie was drafted 10th, Nik Antropov was drafted 9th and has only had 2 20 goal seasons
1997 10th & 9th pick were dmen, Sergei Samsonov was 8th had 4 20 goal seasons and a bunch of 15 goal seasons
1996 Erik Rasmussen never reached 20 goals

So the fact that we got someone who can contribute 20ish goals a year is a good thing.

Also if you compare him to Cammy this year, he's only 2 goals behind him and he earns half the salary. I don't know why people expect the world out of him. He's doing better than what other people drafted in his position have done.
1999 to 2001 were ****** drafts.

while

2003 is one of the deepest draft ever.

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Old
01-06-2011, 06:38 PM
  #70
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My problem with him is that he disapears for long streches most notable in the playoffs. If he can be moved for a player with a simalar upside and contract I would jump on it.
And who is that? Dustin Penner? You'll bash him as much as AK if not more believe me and he has a bigger salary too.

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01-06-2011, 07:23 PM
  #71
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Kostitsyn is a spare part.

We could get rid of him for a 5th rounder and sign Satan at half the price to get pretty much the same results.

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01-06-2011, 07:38 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Quarantesix View Post
effort or not, Sergei was a bum here he perform in Nashville, Lats was a fat lazy 3rd liner he perform with the Wild. AK will do the same with his next team
this

(ribeiro was also a 'cancer'... this trend goes back)

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01-06-2011, 08:08 PM
  #73
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We don't need players who can only perform when there's no pressure anyways.

When the players we traded actually help their team to win something, maybe you guys will have a point.

But as of now, Ribeiro/Lats/SK/O'Byrne aren't worth more than the crap we got for them.

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Old
01-06-2011, 08:10 PM
  #74
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Screw it, with Gorges out, sell sell sell

I don't care if we trade him now.

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Old
01-07-2011, 04:43 AM
  #75
Kriss E
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Well consistency is a two way streak. Maybe the reason AK isn't getting consistent time is because of his consistency.

The reason he is bouning around is his own undoing. He disappears.

Maybe if he put consistent efforts in he wouldn't be getting bounced around.

Also he has 11 seconds on average less than Gomez this year so say what you will, Cammy, Gionta and Pleks have been better overall players thus no cut in time. A streaky player like AK is bound to have this happen. Its called a coach knowing when a player is on or floating.

Also there are games we didn't get more than a few PP's in that stretch so it doesn't mean much.

So how many coaches fault is it in AK's career now?
Really?..Cammy has been better than AK??..How so?
Gionta has been better than AK??..How so??

I'm sorry, but these guys haven't been that better than AK, if at all.


Listen, I'm not talking about previous years. I'm talking about this year.
Fact is, AK was our best, or 2nd best, forward coming out of the gate this year. He was moved around and it screwed him up, that much is obvious.
I have no problem putting all the blame on him for the previous years, but this season, I simply cannot do it.
Yes, there are times where we didn't have much PPs. Still, if you compare him during the rest of the players used on PPs, he logs less time than them.

There was absolutely, absolutely, no reason to give him Moen as a linemate. That much was idiotic. How do you think MaxPac would look like next to Gomez and Moen??..Yet, he's doing a good job with Gionta there instead of Moen.
AK with Gomez and Gionta would likely have been a successful line down the road. But Martin decided to give them about a period or two before promoting Gionta (for some magic reason) on the first line.


Say what you will about AK over the past years, but this season, I can only point the finger at Martin.

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